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Post #241
if every atom was put back in place then they would have the same memory that they had before they died
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The question about whether it'd be the same person is a paradox of consciousness, it's not even worth answering as the only two answers are both very alarming.
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Atoms =/= memories, or am I missing something.
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your brain and all the information it stores is made out of atoms. putting those atomgs back to the exact spot would allow you to have all your memories
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Atoms do equal memories. The copy would be exactly the same in every single last possible facet. As I said, the only two logical answers related to your consciousness are both very alarming.
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and thats why I like thinking about it.
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no, brain cells arranged in a certain way equals memories, and the way electricity interacts with them also. A lot of who you are is electric signals actually.
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Actually that's wrong, we don;t have a clue how memory works, it's a commonly held theory that quantum entanglement is involved, so even if the structure was indentical it could be dangerously different, the person could be resurrected and they could have an overwhelming urge to kill everyone in the room because their memory said they tried to kill him, or he could come back brain dead.
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That's what sort of funny, who "you" are is really a fallacious statement.
If the case is that "you" are stored in brain matter, then that means that your sense of individuality and perception are complete and utter delusions. In that case, you would effectively die if you were deconstructed and re-animated.
Edited:
that's sort of my other "theory" on it, that consciousness and individuality is tied to the universe itself, or my consciousness is the universe, which is the alarming thought.. Maybe I'm the only conscious being in the universe
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They wouldn't be the same atoms is what he's trying to say.
So you might not be you although the first test subjects would think it was themselves cause they'd have memories leading up to that point. So people might go through teleportation/ concious translation and end up just seeing black for all eternity whilst a perfect copy goes on living in that place.
There'd be no way of determining if 'you' is still 'you' after teleporting.
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So he could become a zombie?
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how? and even then it still would be possible to recreate that
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Wouldn't that be the same as resurrecting recently dead?
You deconstruct, they die. You reconstruct them and they are resurrected. So it means it should still be the same person
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yea I thought of that one as well. tell me would you be willing to be telaported or would you be to scared that the person would not be you?
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You cant really recreate quantum entanglement. from what I gather, quantum entanglement would sort of be the "stagehand" behind the visible universe. If that were the case, I think if you were broken down and reanimated, you'd keep your sense of consciousness and individuality because its effectively tied to the existence of the universe.
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I don't think it's that simple, and that's why people are so...boggled by the human mind
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yes but first what proof is there that its connected to consciousness. I really dont see how we could have evolved that and to me it seems like are brains are just more advanced versions of an ant so does that mean an ant also has quantum entanglement involved or how about nonbrained but yet still calculating organisms?
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yes it is, the other version of you would have the exact same memories. There`s a difference between consciousness and memories. Consciousness refers to the feeling of individuality, the sense that you are you, and other people are not you.
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why would it not be that simple. if you took apart and put back together all the atoms of a computer and it would be working exactly the same. why would a human be any different?
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well the person would feel like he was the past person as long as they did it right but would the destroyed person feel like he was the new person?
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Well okay yeah you can make it the same as that person, but I don't think it can be that same...person...consciousness thing
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i don't think a computer is like a human sorry
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If I ever go become fabulously wealthy (incredibly likely) lots of the money will be going to efforts to make the world more like the future.
I will not rest until transhumanists are simultaneously jizzing in their biomechanical trousers all over the world.
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Because computers aren't conscious so all the data would be there but it'd be as if you just switched it on.
Humans are ever present in their own minds from the moment they are conceptualized the moment they die. Even when sleeping. I don't think it'd be that simple to transfer consciousness, I think you'd need to do it via tubes that interface with the host body and interface with the clone body and 'trickle' it down the tube in a one-way direction.
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Why not
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Agreed, I'm going to donate heavily to this and possibly make my own research foundation dedicated to it.
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Stop right there. There is no proof.
For that matter, there's no real proof of anything to do with understanding the universe. Most of everything has been derived from specious observation or complex calculations. Qauntum Entanglement, and quantum physics for that matter is sort of a explanation for calculatory anomalies, or things that just make absolutely no sense, yet still happen.
Even the fact that the universe exists is a miracle. Its just as likely that nothing would exist, ever. The unvierse, and existance as a whole is an infinitely complex and an extremely bizarre phenomenon. Dont dismiss anything as completely impossible or illogical.
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yes it makes me think. if there were 2 of you would not be both people. each would have there own (same) mind. so why should i believe that me being destroyed and put back together that i would become the same person (even though memory wise i would). but heres another thing. every 5 years all the atoms in your body get replaced. are you the same person you were 5 years ago?
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im not but i do need proof before believing something
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Your physical form and consciousness are separate. Your body and mind are just complex and organised lumps of matter, every fraction of a thought that passes through your mind is matter interacting, and those can be replicated. However, your innate sense of consciousness, your sense of individuality and your function of perception, that is what is referred to as Consciousness, or Sentience.
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It'd be pretty insane to be controlling two host bodies simultaneously from the same (combined) minds.
How would the eyes you see out of be positioned? Relative to eachother, randomly positioned or aligned opposite?
It's like if you try to look out of your peripheral vision you see 'blackness' but it's not really blackness cause you can't see it, it just doesn't exist.
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yes but the thing is. you get destroyed and completely replaced every 5 years. what would be the difference if instead of doing it in 5 years we did it in a few seconds?
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Well the theory is that some atoms are entagled with others obviously.
And when you manage to re entangle a system perfectly and still recreate the same consciousness somehow you will win the most prestigious Nobel prize in history my child.
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well you would have 2 minds to controle so each could control 2 eyes. it would be like the formac queen in enders game
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No, no, a thousand times no, there is not a single iota of reasoning or evidence to support that your consciousness is anything but the product of the material components of your brain.
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yes but what proof is there that some of the atoms in your brain are entangled?
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There would be no difference, you didn't read a thing I just said. The idea of you is retarded. There is no such thing as you in the visible universe, what you consider is you is nothing but a complex organization of matter, and despite subtle differences you are no different from any other living organism.
Your thoughts and memories are stored in forms of matter, your body is matter, and those can be interchanged and replaced, however, it has been proposed that your consciousness and sentience is seprate from your body, and is related to qauntum entanglement, therefore it does not really interact with the visible universe and is immune to any changes.
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there's is no proof, it is simply the most logical and feasible explanation beyond the fact that consciousness is nothing but a very immense illusion created by your brain, but that could simply be too blunt an explanation given the nature of the universe.
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yes... that is the other possibility. I said that already (it was actually my first thought). bravehat just brought up the idea of entanglement, and it is not fair to ignore that possibility.
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http://www.newscientist.com/article/...-memories.html
Read and be astounding at how you are possibly wrong.
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well then either way how does your consciousness (which has to be made out of something) not go away even though it gets replaced with the body like everything else
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It's pretty fair to ignore possibilities that are entirely unsubstantiated either by observational evidence or any sort of good reasoning.
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Actually allow me to make this simpler.
Replacing the whole body as a whole at once could in theory kill YOU as your own consciousness and it could be replaced with a copy of you, completely perfect it even thinks its you because it is you, except you stopped existing.
Replacing the body cell by cell is fine because the body does that on its own anyway so there would be no change.
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Oh.
I thought you were talking about actual quantum entanglement which would be ridiculously unlikely to happen in something like a brain.
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Thank you. lets not forget that it has also become evident through recent studies that humans can proportionately predict events of chance in the future. Likely also another bizarre quantum phenomenon.
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