1. Post #201
    Incoming long post:
    INTRODUCTION

    Libya possesses one of the most robust air defense networks on the African continent, falling second only to Egypt in terms of coverage and operational systems. Libyan strategic SAM assets are primarily arrayed along the coastline, ostensibly defending the bulk of the Libyan population and preventing foreign incursion into Libyan airspace.

    THE STRATEGIC SAM FORCE

    Libyan strategic SAM assets are subordinate to the Air Defense Forces, which in turn are subordinate to the Libyan Air Force. Currently believed to be divided into five separate regional commands, the Air Defense Force operates a variety of Soviet-era equipment. The following strategic SAM systems are currently serving within the Libyan Air Defense Force: S-75 (SA-2 GUIDELINE), S-125 (SA-3 GOA), and S-200 (SA-5 GAMMON).

    EW Coverage

    Seventeen active and four inactive EW sites provide Libya's military with early warning radar coverage, used for SAM system target acquisition and track handoff, and GCI control of fighter units. These EW sites are located primarily along the western and eastern coastal regions, monitoring the airspace around Tripoli and Benghazi. Identified EW radars operating in Libya are predominately Soviet-era systems. The following systems have been identified in available imagery:

    P-12/18 (SPOON REST)
    P-14 (TALL KING)
    P-35/37 (BAR LOCK)
    P-80 (BACK NET)

    In addition, Libya is reported to have received five Italian LPD-20 air search radars in 1983 and three Soviet 5N69 (BIG BACK) EW radars between 1984 and 1985. None of these systems have been identified in available imagery, but that does not preclude their existance.

    The following image depicts the locations of identified EW radar sites in Libya:


    The following image depicts a notional Libyan EW site, located near Sabha in the western portion of the nation's interior. This is representative of roughly one third of Libya's EW sites. Five sites are only fitted with P-12/18 series radars, with five being fitted with multiple radar systems. The P-12/18 sites likely serve to bolster or extend coverage, with the five sites containing multiple EW radars possibly serving as the command centers for the aforementioned regional commands.



    Some strategic SAM sites contain their own organic EW elements. This allows them to perform independent target acquisition, or to accept long-range track handoff from regional EW centers. Seven SAM sites, four S-75 and three S-200, have identified EW assets. S-75 sites feature P-12/18 radars, with S-200 sites featuring P-14 radars. No S-125 sites, and the remaining S-75 and S-200 sites, contain identified EW assets, but this is likely due to the quality of available imagery rather than a lack of assets.

    The following image depicts a deployed P-12/18 EW radar at an S-75 site near Tripoli:


    SAM Coverage

    There are currently thirty one active strategic SAM sites located in Libya. The following image depicts the locations of these sites. S-75 sites are red, S-125 sites are light blue, and S-200 sites are purple. As can be seen, the overwhelming majority of the deployed strategic SAM assets are located along the same coastal regions featuring the bulk of the EW assets.



    The following image depicts the overall SAM coverage provided by the identified Libyan strategic SAM sites. Using the same color scheme applied previously, SA-2 zones are red, S-125 zones are light blue, and S-200 zones are purple.



    S-75

    There are currently eleven active S-75 sites inside of Libya, constituting roughly one third of the strategic SAM force. Russian sources claim that thirty nine S-75M Volkhov batteries were supplied to Libya between 1974 and 1985. Other sources suggest that the initial order of eighteen batteries supplied between 1974 and 1975 consisted of S-75 Dvina systems. S-75 batteries are deployed to protect key population centers and military facilities, predominately along the coastal region.

    The following image depicts the coverage provided by Libya's active S-75 batteries:


    S-125

    There are currently sixteen active S-125 sites inside of Libya. Eight batteries are situated on former S-75 sites. The S-125 represents half of the deployed strategic SAM assets in the nation. Libya operates the S-125M Neva-M variant, with thirty three batteries being supplied between 1974 and 1976. As with the S-75, S-125 batteries are deployed to protect key population and military facilities, predominately along the coastal region.

    The following image depicts the coverage provided by Libya's active S-125 batteries:


    S-200

    There are currently four active S-200 sites inside of Libya, each site being equipped with two batteries. The S-200 represents the longest-range strategic SAM system in the Libyan arsenal. The proximity of these four locations to the coastline allows them to range far out into the Mediterranean, theoretically providing a significant standoff engagement capability. Six S-200 batteries were initially supplied to Libya between 1985 and 1986, with a further five being delivered in 1988. There is some confusion as to which variant Libya operates. Russian sources refer to the system delivered as the S-200VE, but the SIPRI arms trade register refers to the system as the Angara, implying that the longer-range S-200DE was delivered.

    The following image depicts the coverage provided by Libya's active S-200 batteries. A range of 300 kilometers is used, corresponding to the Angara variant.


    Tactical SAM Systems

    The Libyan Army operates various tactical SAM ssytems which could be called upon to provide point defense of serve as gap fillers in the overall air defense network. These systems include the 2K12 Kvadrat (SA-6 GAINFUL), 9K33 Osa (SA-8 GECKO), 9K31 Strela-1 (SA-9 GASKIN), 9K35 Strela-10 (SA-13 GOPHER), and Crotale. While the 9K33 is the most numerous system, the 2K12 represents the msot capable tactical SAM system.

    Inactive Sites

    There are currently thirty identified inactive strategic SAM sites located in Libya. There are fifteen S-75 sites, eleven S-125 sites, and four S-200 sites. These sites are all located within areas featuring active SAM batteries. As such, they may represent facilities available for bolstering the defenses of a given region during hostilities, drawing on equipment held in garrison, or they may represent dispersal locations for the realignment of SAM deployments over time.

    To support the latter concept, it should be noted that five inactive sites, two S-75, one S-125, and two S-200, have hosted operational batteries at some point in the past. Also, three S-125 and one S-200 site currently operational were noted as being inactive at some point in the past. This suggests that there is a policy of redeployment and reorganization that occurs. Militarily this is a sound strategy, as it complicates the targeting of these facilities by a potential aggressor. While it is true that new site locations can be deduced by imagery or ELNT analysis, it adds to the workload of pre-strike planners.

    The following image depicts the locations of inactive strategic SAM sites located in Libya:


    Support Facilities

    Eleven facilities provide logistical support for the overall strategic SAM network. Ten of these facilities are SAM garrisons housing undeployed equipment and missile reloads, with the remaining facility being a dedicated SAM training complex. Seven of the SAM garrisons are generic facilities supporting multiple systems. Based on the identification of system components in available imagery, two of the remaining SAM garrisons appear to solely support the S-75, with the remaining garrison supporting the S-125. All garrisons are located in the vicinity of prepared launch sites.

    The following image depicts a combined S-75/125 garrison complex near Tripoli:


    The following image depicts the Libyan SAM training complex near Misratah:


    STRATEGIC SAM FORCE CAPABILITY

    Libyan strategic SAM assets are arranged to provide a layered air defense zone with overlapping fields of fire. S-75 and S-125 batteries are located in close proximity to provide both redundancy and support, with the S-125 being more capable at lower altitudes than the S-75. The large number of inactive sites suggests that the force has been drawn down over time. This could be due to service life issues, equipment failure, financial reasons, or the expenditure of missile stocks.

    National S-200 Coverage

    The first line of defense in Libya's strategic SAM network is the S-200. Positioned along the coastline, the four active S-200 batteries provide a credible deterrent to high-RCS cooperative targets such as ISR platforms. S-200 batteries are located near Tripoli, Misratah, Surt, and Benghazi.

    Coastal Coverage

    Libya's S-75 and S-125 sites are concentrated primarily along the western and eastern coastlines. While the S-200 batteries are situated to provide barrier air defense of the nation's coastline, the S-75 and S-125 sites are positioned to provide point defense of assigned areas. From west to east, these sites are arrayed around Ibn Nafa airbase, Tripoli, Misratah, Benghazi, Bombah, and Adam. While contiguous coverage of the coastal region is not provided by these sites, each location is defended by no fewer than three batteries. Ibn Nafa and Bombah are defended by one S-75 and two S-125 batteries, Misratah is defended by one S-75 and three S-125 batteries, and Benghazi and Adam are defended by two S-75 and two S-125 batteries.

    The following image depicts the coastal coverage of Libya's S-75 and S-125 batteries, with the locations of the S-200 batteries also marked:


    Interestingly, while Surt features an active S-200 battery, all S-75 and S-125 sites in the area are currently inactive. This leaves the coastline along the Gulf of Sidra relatively undefended.

    The most heavily defended city is the capitol of Tripoli. Tripoli is defended by three S-75 and four S-125 batteries, with an S-200 battery positioned south of the city. Three SAM garrisons and three EW facilities are also present in the area, as are four inactive SAM sites.

    The following image depicts SAM-related facilities and coverage zones near Tripoli:


    The following images depict SAM-related facilities and coverage zones near the remaining coastal areas.

    Ibn Nafa Airbase


    Misratah


    Benghazi


    Bombah


    Adam


    Inland Coverage

    Sabha is the only inland city within Libya to have any strategic SAM defenses. Much of the Libyan interior is sparsely populated, as are the regions it borders. What then makes Sabha stand out as a location requiring SAM defenses? First, Sabha is believed to have been associated with the defunct Libyan nuclear weapons program. Second, Sabha was home to Libyan rocket development in the early 1980s, when the OTRAG rocket was tested from the Seba Oasis launch facility. There remains a significant military presence in the area, which is likely the ultimate reason for the presence of strategic SAM assets and related support facilities.

    The following image depicts SAM-related facilities and coverage zones near Sebha:


    Air Defense Issues

    Libya's strategic SAM network is logically arrayed to defend key facilities following a point defense strategy, with long-range S-200 systems providing standoff barrier air defense along the coastal region. However, Libya's strategic SAM network has many flaws.

    The main drawback of the Libyan strategic SAM network is an overreliance on aging Soviet technology. Russian manufacturers presently produce what are arguably the most advanced and capable land-based strategic SAM systems in the world. Much of their success lies in the fact that they have produced a diverse array of SAM systems with numerous variants. However, this history also presents a problem for nations relying on older technology: the rest of the world has simply passed them by. Advances in electronic warfare and ECM have made many of the older Soviet-era SAM systems obsolete in a modern air combat environment. Libya's S-75, S-125, and S-200 systems are no exception. Furthermore, despite some claims to the contrary, the Libyan strategic SAM force was generally ineffective during hostilities with the United States in the mid 1980s.

    In one case, Soviet military officials deduced that the S-200 succeeded in downing three US Navy aircraft in March of 1986, based only on the perception of fragments on the radar readouts and the presence of helicopter activity in the area, the latter being attributed to CSAR efforts. The USN has never disclosed any aircraft losses during the incident, which in and of itself does not indicate that no aircraft were lost, but the other two pieces of "evidence" can easily be explained. The apparent appearance of aircraft fragments on the radar operators' screens could have been attributed to chaff dispersal or radar interference, especially if the aircraft descended below the radar's field of view. Also, helicopter activity is not limited to CSAR operations in the USN; helicopters active at the time could have been performing anti-submarine patrols, searching out and identifying surface contacts, or simply flying proiciency sorties. Whatever the case may be, the evidence does not conclusively indicate that any USN aircraft were downed by S-200s, and if the Russians or Libyans have any evidence to the contrary they have certainly never seen fit to bring it into the open.

    Later in 1986, the Libyan strategic SAM network was abused during Operation ELDORADO CANYON, the US military response to Libyan support of terrorism. Lieutenant General Vladimir Yaroshenko, a former officer in the Soviet PVO SAM Troops, was assigned to analyze the poor performance of the Soviet supplied SAM systems in that operation. LTG Yaroshenko has reported his discovery that poor command and control, poor radar coverage, and a lack of appreciation for American anti-radar weapons and tactics precluded effective target engagement. One interesting fact which he mentions is that the S-75 batteries had a minimum engagement altitude of 100 meters, corresponding to the S-75M Volkhov system as mentioned previously. He also confirms that only one US aircraft, an F-111 shot down by AAA fire, was lost, despite Venikian levels of propaganda claiming otherwise at the time.

    Part of the current problem stems from international sanctions placed on Libya during the 1980s which effectively stifled any serious chances of upgrading or replacing obsolete systems. The rest of the problem lies in the systems themselves. All three strategic SAM types operated by Libya have been thoroughly exploited by Western intelligence agencies, and many Western nations have faced these same systems in combat at various times, allowing for continued refinement of ECM systems designed to defeat these weapons electronically. Also, no strategic SAM system operated by Libya possesses a multi-target engagement capability. The only SAM sites representing a threat to multiple aircraft are the S-200 locations, as they possess multiple 5N62 (SQUARE PAIR) engagement radars. As such, even though Libyan strategic SAM sites are arrayed to provide overlapping fields of fire while defending a given area, the relatively small number of sites represents a threat to only a small number of targets. As a result, the overall network is easily susceptible to oversaturation.

    The second drawback to Libya's strategic SAM network is one of layout. If it is accepted that older Soviet-era systems may still be reliable against regional aggressors lacking modern, sophisticated EW or ECM suites, the system still has a significant number of gaps that could be exploited. The S-200 represents the only significant over water threat, but is constrained by having a minimum engagement altitude of 300 meters. Any terrain-hugging aircraft or cruise missiles would easily be able to exploit this weakness to approach the Libyan coastline. Once the coastline has been reached, the most obvious point of ingress would be the area adjacent to the Gulf of Sidra, which is devoid of deployed strategic SAM assets. Furthermore, as evidenced in the image seen previously, there are gaps between areas covered by S-75 and S-125 batteries which could also be exploited. This does not of course take into account the presence or performance of interceptors, AAA, or tactical SAM units, as these systems are outside the scope of this analysis.

    CONCLUSION

    At the end of the day, the Libyan strategic SAM network requires a massive infusion of new technology to remain viable in the twenty first century. It was not capable of repelling an attack over twenty years ago, and there is no reason to suspect that it will be capable of such action today. Libya is reportedly negotiating for the purchase of advanced S-300PMU-2 (SA-20B GARGOYLE) SAM systems from Russia, which would go a long way towards modernizing the network and restoring its effectiveness. Colonel al-Gaddafi has made great strides in bringing Libya back into the community of nations, and deserves a large amount of praise for doing so, but that should not lessen the Libyan government's desire or responsibility to provide adequate defense for its citizens.

    SOURCES

    -The aforementioned data is based on analysis of the available open-source satellite imagery of Libya and may therefore not represent the entire air defense network.

    -Satellite imagery provided courtesy of Google Earth

    SIPRI
    The North African Military Balance: Force Developments in the Maghreb (PDF File)
    The OTRAG rocket
    Jane's Land-based Air Defence, various editions
    SAMs of the PVO, Mikhail Pervov, 2001
    Fakel's Missiles, Vladimir Korovin, 2003
    Source:
    http://geimint.blogspot.com/2010/05/...m-network.html
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  2. Post #202
    hang you're self
    G71tc4's Avatar
    March 2008
    4,782 Posts
    Thread music


  3. Post #203
    Ringo_Satu's Avatar
    June 2010
    767 Posts
    Peace? Gaddafi is fucking nuts. Why don't you go research. Also, do you not remember him BOMBING protesters? fucking PROTESTERS? It would be like the US dropping a jdam on Westboro baptist and calling it peaceful.
    The bombing, made worse and turned against Gadaffi by the media, you know. I won't tell the who story because I see it's pretty pointless to do so here.
    Basically, the primary proof of peace would be saying that he never again attacked regained cities and there wouldn't have been any point of doing some after regaining control in Benghazi. Rebels would have been killed and that's it.
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  4. Post #204
    Jsm
    "Belgium is pretty much a non-country"
    Jsm's Avatar
    June 2006
    8,039 Posts
    Peace? Gaddafi is fucking nuts. Why don't you go research. Also, do you not remember him BOMBING protesters? fucking PROTESTERS? It would be like the US dropping a jdam on Westboro baptist and calling it peaceful.
    The difference is if they did this most people would not care.
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  5. Post #205
    Gold Member
    Sgt Doom's Avatar
    March 2005
    20,528 Posts
    Mid-late 1980s systems like Tor and the 2S6 Tunguska can, but Libya does not have such equipment in their inventory.
    Are those systems capable of shooting down Tomahawks? If they could, then it's a damn good thing they don't have any of those.

  6. Post #206
    Ringo_Satu's Avatar
    June 2010
    767 Posts
    I enjoy your crude humor. I admit that post was a bit hot-headed, just because I'm watching the Libyan broadcast right now and parts of it is making me mad. Don't get me wrong, you have a right to an opinion, but it's not one that I agree with.
    I understand, it's ok.

    You are literally the dumbest piece of shit to have ever inhabited the Earth. If you were to die tomorrow no one would give a fuck and would piss on your grave which would probably be a ditch somewhere.
    Thanks

  7. Post #207
    Incoming post:



    LIBYAN AIR ASSETS AND AIR DEFENSE
    Main bases

    Libya's air force is headquartered at Okba Ben Nafi Air Base (formerly Methega, and Wheelus AFB) located 7 miles due east of Tripoli. This is a well-equipped air base that has been developed with Russian assistance to support and maintain a full air force of over 200 combat aircraft. Another large air base is located at Benghazi and a third, Gamal Abdul Nasser Air Base, is situated a few miles southwest of Tobruk. Two other air bases are located near the Egyptian border -- at Al Kufrah Oasis and at Jabal al Uwaynat in the far south.

    Air Defense

    Libya deploys the SA-2, SA-3, and Crotale missiles. At least one battery of each of these types have been spotted at each of Libya's three main air bases (Okba Ben Nafi, Benghazi and Gamal Abdul Nassar). One battery of Crotale sites have been detected at each of the two smaller bases in the southeast. The Libyan Army also operates three SA-5 batteries which are currently at undisclosed locations (probably in storage.)

    Aircraft

    The Libyan air force is believed to consist of over 500 combat aircraft, with some reports suggesting the number is as high as 700. These aircraft include MiG-23s, MiG-25s, Su-24, Fencer 'D's, Su-27s and Mirage F.1EDs. At least one squadron of Tu-22 bombers are known to be located at Okba Ben Nafi AB.



    Organization

    Libya's air force is organized into one medium bomber squadron, three fighter interceptor squadrons, five forward ground attack squadrons, one counterinsurgency squadron, nine helicopter squadrons, and three air defense brigades. Exact distribution and numbers of each squadron are unknown at this time. According to French intelligence, however, we know that there are no more than 60 or 70 Mirage aircraft, which are believed to be poorly maintained due to the lack of French technical support. Those Mirage aircraft that are in service are believed to be located at Gamal Abdul Nasser Air Base.

    Training

    The number of well-trained pilots is nowhere near the number of planes in its inventory, a situation that Libya is apparently seeking to change through heavy recruitment efforts in recent years. While Libyan pilots are somewhat proficient in ground attack and to a lesser degree, maritime attack, they are particularly weak at air-to-air combat. As a whole, the Libyan air force is not very impressive in its response time, either, with a 20-to-30-minute reaction time noted during exercises in the Mediterranean back in 2005. It is unknown whether Libya has improved their proficiency in this areas since then.
    Source:
    http://theamericanaudacity.blogspot....-defenses.html
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  8. Post #208
    Jsm
    "Belgium is pretty much a non-country"
    Jsm's Avatar
    June 2006
    8,039 Posts
    BBC just showed the clip that everyone knew would come eventually: a TLAM being launched at night.

  9. Post #209
    Gold Member

    October 2009
    4,925 Posts
    The bombing, made worse and turned against Gadaffi by the media, you know. I won't tell the who story because I see it's pretty pointless to do so here.
    Basically, the primary proof of peace would be saying that he never again attacked regained cities and there wouldn't have been any point of doing some after regaining control in Benghazi. Rebels would have been killed and that's it.
    yeah I guess it's ok for a psychotic dictator to go out and kill his own people after they rebelled against him and his corrupt government which has done nothing but forced its people to live under a government of tyranny, death, and destruction
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  10. Post #210
    CatFodder's Avatar
    August 2010
    1,028 Posts
    The bombing, made worse and turned against Gadaffi by the media, you know. I won't tell the who story because I see it's pretty pointless to do so here.
    Basically, the primary proof of peace would be saying that he never again attacked regained cities and there wouldn't have been any point of doing some after regaining control in Benghazi. Rebels would have been killed and that's it.
    Oh, that's alright then. I mean, who cares if thousands of people are slaughtered? They're only rebels.
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  11. Post #211
    Gold Member
    Mr.Goodcat's Avatar
    August 2009
    1,040 Posts
    And here we go. Showing your whole smartness by mindless insults. You are probably just as smart as you think I am, if you know what I mean
    We aren't doing anything wrong, we get to free millions of people from a batshit insane dictator, we get to have some more oil for the rest of the world, and the millions of Libya will get some freedom. Unless you are Gaddafi I see no reason to be upset about this.
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  12. Post #212
    Ringo_Satu's Avatar
    June 2010
    767 Posts
    Oh, that's alright then. I mean, who cares if thousands of people are slaughtered? They're only rebels.
    I dunno, I could have made it unclear (sorry if I did), I meant armed rebels. What would you do if you were the ruler? You would just watch as the country is getting taken apart in armed rebelions? What's the army for then?

    In conclussion, Libya should have left alone, it's disguisting how America has to put it's nose in everyone's bussiness.
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  13. Post #213
    Guys, please read my post. It gives you some understanding on their Air Defences.

  14. Post #214
    OvB
    Facepunch resident scientist
    OvB's Avatar
    March 2007
    13,208 Posts
    I dunno, I could have made it unclear (sorry if I did), I meant armed rebels. What would you do if you were the ruler? You would just watch as the country is getting taken apart in armed rebelions? What's the army for then?

    In conclussion, Libya should have left alone, it's disguisting how America has to put it's nose in everyone's bussiness.
    I would have let protesters protest as a start.

  15. Post #215
    Jsm
    "Belgium is pretty much a non-country"
    Jsm's Avatar
    June 2006
    8,039 Posts
    In conclussion, Libya should have left alone, it's disguisting how America has to put it's nose in everyone's bussiness.
    America is responding to calls from its allies and the UN who in turn are responding to calls from the people of Libya. They are not sticking their nose in, if you are going to argue something please do your research first.
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  16. Post #216
    Gold Member

    October 2009
    4,925 Posts
    I dunno, I could have made it unclear (sorry if I did), I meant armed rebels. What would you do if you were the ruler? You would just watch as the country is getting taken apart in armed rebelions? What's the army for then?

    In conclussion, Libya should have left alone, it's disguisting how America has to put it's nose in everyone's bussiness.
    They're fighting for their freedom from a dictator who has killed thousands of his citizens that he swore to protect. You're a fucking retard if you think that Gaddafi has the right to kill these people because they are fighting against his regime.
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  17. Post #217
    Gold Member
    Mr.Goodcat's Avatar
    August 2009
    1,040 Posts
    I dunno, I could have made it unclear (sorry if I did), I meant armed rebels. What would you do if you were the ruler? You would just watch as the country is getting taken apart in armed rebelions? What's the army for then?

    In conclussion, Libya should have left alone, it's disguisting how America has to put it's nose in everyone's bussiness.
    So you must be okay living under a insane dictator and having your basic human rights taken away anytime the dictator is in a bad mood? If he was a good dictator then people wouldn't protest/cause a rebellion.

  18. Post #218
    Ringo_Satu's Avatar
    June 2010
    767 Posts
    I'm starting to wonder where you did your research? I had disscussions with quite a few people who, as far as I know, know what they are talking about. Most of them were against this bullshit.

    What I still don't get, however, why is Libya the only one getting attacked? There is a massacre in Yemen, why not Yemen then? There's a crisis in Cote d'Ivoire too. But, you know, we can go along with it, can we?
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  19. Post #219
    Gold Member
    Tac Error's Avatar
    September 2007
    5,085 Posts
    Are those systems capable of shooting down Tomahawks? If they could, then it's a damn good thing they don't have any of those.
    Well both systems were designed to be able to shoot down the air-launched cruise missile carried by B-52s. The Soviets weren't blind to the capabilities of Western precision weapons and adapted accordingly.
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  20. Post #220
    Gold Member
    Sgt Doom's Avatar
    March 2005
    20,528 Posts
    I dunno, I could have made it unclear (sorry if I did), I meant armed rebels. What would you do if you were the ruler? You would just watch as the country is getting taken apart in armed rebelions? What's the army for then?

    In conclussion, Libya should have left alone, it's disguisting how America has to put it's nose in everyone's bussiness.
    The Libyan people themselves asked for this, you twit.
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  21. Post #221
    Gold Member

    October 2009
    4,925 Posts
    I'm starting to wonder where you did your research? I had disscussions with quite a few people who, as far as I know, know what they are talking about. Most of them were against this bullshit.

    What I still don't get, however, why is Libya the only one getting attacked? There is a massacre in Yemen, why not Yemen then? There's a crisis in Cote d'Ivoire too. But, you know, we can go along with it, can we?
    The libyan people cried out to the UN for our help. The other countries have yet to do so you fucking imbecile.
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  22. Post #222
    Gold Member
    Mr.Goodcat's Avatar
    August 2009
    1,040 Posts
    I'm starting to wonder where you did your research? I had disscussions with quite a few people who, as far as I know, know what they are talking about. Most of them were against this bullshit.

    What I still don't get, however, why is Libya the only one getting attacked? There is a massacre in Yemen, why not Yemen then? There's a crisis in Cote d'Ivoire too. But, you know, we can go along with it, can we?

    Just wondering? was the other person you were talking to about this named Gaddafi?
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  23. Post #223
    From the post I posted, seems like their air defence mostly consist of the SA series missiles.

  24. Post #224
    Ringo_Satu's Avatar
    June 2010
    767 Posts
    The Libyan people themselves asked for this, you twit.
    So now every rebelion can ask for help and get it?
    Back in the day America just pretended that they'll help.
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  25. Post #225
    Jsm
    "Belgium is pretty much a non-country"
    Jsm's Avatar
    June 2006
    8,039 Posts
    From the post I posted, seems like their air defence mostly consist of the SA series missiles.
    They seem to all be SA-5's from what I have heard.
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  26. Post #226
    Gold Member
    sami-elite's Avatar
    May 2007
    3,810 Posts
    The US has the ability to move large numbers of aircraft's into the sea very close to Libya, most of Europe does not have this ability.
    There are more ways than one. There are military airfields all over the Mediterranean Sea. They can be used by all EU countries probably. The most notable one would be the one on Malta.

  27. Post #227
    CatFodder's Avatar
    August 2010
    1,028 Posts
    From the post I posted, seems like their air defence mostly consist of the SA series missiles.
    I don't know much about munitions; how much of a threat would missiles like these be to the UN jets? Is there a chance of them seriously hindering the strikes?

  28. Post #228
    News Baron

    January 2008
    1,218 Posts
    So now every rebelion can ask for help and get it?
    Back in the day America just pretended that they'll help.
    There's a bit of a difference between protests and a civil war. The situation in Yemen is basically what happened at the start of the Libyan protests, and could quickly turn into what Libya is now. As of current, the Libyan situation is the only one justifiable of military intervention. Yemen is not, because the protests are still in early stages.

  29. Post #229
    Jsm
    "Belgium is pretty much a non-country"
    Jsm's Avatar
    June 2006
    8,039 Posts
    There are more ways than one. There are military airfields all over the Mediterranean Sea. They can be used by all EU countries probably. The most notable one would be the one on Malta.
    Malta have said no to using their country a base, but OK to pass through their airspace.
    I guess its because they might be within bombing range of Libya (both ways) and do not want to be bombed by them.

  30. Post #230
    They seem to all be SA-5's from what I have heard.
    Yeap. 8 battalions. And it flies at 2.5 km/s, max range 40,000 metres. Is that good or bad?
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  31. Post #231
    Gold Member
    Mr.Goodcat's Avatar
    August 2009
    1,040 Posts
    So now every rebelion can ask for help and get it?
    Back in the day America just pretended that they'll help.
    Well lets see, South Kora, Kuwait, and South Vietnam both asked and we came along, during WWII the British asked for our assistance (Even though we kinda got thrown into it but we were sending pilots and supplies before Pearl Harbor.) So yeah, we kinda have a track record.
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  32. Post #232
    Gold Member
    Sgt Doom's Avatar
    March 2005
    20,528 Posts
    So now every rebelion can ask for help and get it?
    Back in the day America just pretended that they'll help.
    The West may not have been consistent in stopping genocidal lunatics or supplying those that try to, but at least something's being done now. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the current and planned operations, though feel free to try and point out how it is.

    Edited:

    Yeap. 8 battalions. And it flies at 2.5 km/s, max range 40,000 metres. Is that good or bad?
    Those systems were designed for taking out high-flying, fast aircraft like the SR-71 or bomber aircraft like B-52s, so i'd imagine it'd be a significant hindrance for those aircraft. Not sure how it bodes for smaller fighter/bomber aircraft, after all the French got theirs through unscathed.
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  33. Post #233
    Gold Member
    Glorbo's Avatar
    May 2010
    5,372 Posts
    I dunno, I could have made it unclear (sorry if I did), I meant armed rebels. What would you do if you were the ruler? You would just watch as the country is getting taken apart in armed rebelions? What's the army for then?

    In conclussion, Libya should have left alone, it's disguisting how America has to put it's nose in everyone's bussiness.
    You know what I couldn't do?
    Care less.

  34. Post #234
    I'm also assuming most of Libya's aircraft are taken out of action?

  35. Post #235
    News Baron

    January 2008
    1,218 Posts
    I'm also assuming most of Libya's aircraft are taken out of action?
    Quite a few, because of sanctions and all that.

  36. Post #236
    Gold Member
    sami-elite's Avatar
    May 2007
    3,810 Posts
    Yeap. 8 battalions. And it flies at 2.5 km/s, max range 40,000 metres. Is that good or bad?
    Depends on how you look at it.
    If it was 1945 it would be bad.
    If there was no massive equipment advantage over them it would be bad.

    But as it is now, they bomb all sites and then shoot down planes if they need to. But anti air always goes first these days.

  37. Post #237
    Gold Member
    hypno-toad's Avatar
    October 2006
    14,811 Posts
    So America Bitches (Canada and Australia) havent gone in after America?


    Yet anyways...
    What's it like being 13 years old?
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  38. Post #238
    I'm different!
    Doctor Zedacon's Avatar
    July 2006
    14,170 Posts
    Hey, where is that guy who goes in every thread about the military or dead soldiers and talks about how great is is when they die because they are soldiers? I really want to hear his "rational" opinion on this. Shukaido's too, though he's actually more entertaining then frustrating because of how asinine his theories are.

  39. Post #239
    Teh Soviet's Avatar
    April 2008
    735 Posts
    I love 2011 :3

    It might not be good for everyone, but it's so exciting!

  40. Post #240
    Gold Member
    smurfy's Avatar
    October 2007
    22,058 Posts
    So now every rebelion can ask for help and get it?
    Well maybe if 10 000 people are dead, the rebellion is failing and the leader of the country has vowed to systematically execute every single one of them.

    The number of people who have died in the Libyan uprising is more than ten times that of all the other Arab protests combined.