1. Post #81
    Oh, I wasn't misinterpreting you. So you think a dog should have more rights than a person?
    Than a killer?Yes.

    Edited:

    Yes, but the killer is a human being. He deserves a choice because he has the mental capacity to make one. He is undeniably a human being, particularly from a phsyiological standpoint - so why should we not give him the choice he is allowed to make as a human? I am sure your dog would be given a choice if he knew any human languages, would he not?
    You right,my dog would have an option.

  2. Post #82
    Gold Member
    Cone's Avatar
    August 2011
    18,859 Posts
    Than a killer?Yes.
    Yes, but this is where we differ in opinion. I believe that, as a human beng of complete sentience and knowledge of his actions and the weight they carry, he should be allowed to choose between euthenasia and imprisonment. It is fact that he is a person, as a simple glance could tell you. He has the mental cpacity to make a choice and thus deserves the chance to make one. Why not?

  3. Post #83
    Gold Member
    Hellduck's Avatar
    March 2007
    5,739 Posts
    If he/she goes to prison forever (ie no parole chance) is it not almost the same as executing him?
    No, I wouldn't say it is. If a person is executed they can't appeal for release in light of new evidence, they can't receive reparations if they are found innocent.

    Edited:

    And they don't have any vital signs either.

    Edited:

    Than a killer?Yes.
    No, than a person. Answer the following question: Do you think that a dog should have more rights than a person?

  4. Post #84
    Gold Member
    Cone's Avatar
    August 2011
    18,859 Posts
    Than a killer?Yes.

    Edited:

    You right,my dog would have an option.
    And in this situation, the dog may as well be a person. So I ask you: would a person not deserve the same chance?

  5. Post #85
    Gold Member
    Eltro102's Avatar
    February 2008
    10,860 Posts
    No, I wouldn't say it is. If a person is executed they can't appeal for release in light of new evidence, they can't receive reparations if they are found innocent.

    Edited:

    And they don't have any vital signs either.

    Edited:



    No, than a person. Answer the following question: Do you think that a dog should have more rights than a person?
    Yes, but for many people would rather not live out the rest of their lives in prison and just that the easy way out.

    Also, dogs should have rights on discretion of his owner to be either as low as other animals, or to have no rights at all

  6. Post #86
    Gold Member
    Cone's Avatar
    August 2011
    18,859 Posts
    Yes, but for many people would rather not live out the rest of their lives in prison and just that the easy way out.
    Then the easy way out they shall have. A lot of people seem to think we want the prisoner to suffer - when the reality is, if there was any way we could just release them without the threat of them killing/stealing/commiting crimes again, I'm fairly sure we would.

  7. Post #87
    Gold Member
    Hellduck's Avatar
    March 2007
    5,739 Posts
    Yes, but for many people would rather not live out the rest of their lives in prison and just that the easy way out.
    Many people would rather not be convicted of crimes at all. What the criminal wants is irrelevant. What the criminal deserves and has a right to is key.

  8. Post #88
    Gold Member
    Cone's Avatar
    August 2011
    18,859 Posts
    Many people would rather not be convicted of crimes at all. What the criminal wants is irrelevant. What the criminal deserves and has a right to is key.
    Exactly, and the prisoner, as someone who must remain within his asigned boundaries, has only both the right to and deserves two things: imprisonment, or death. He has the right to chose - that is all he shall be allowed.

  9. Post #89
    Gold Member
    SpaceGhost's Avatar
    December 2010
    4,796 Posts
    1. Their's nothing "sacred" about a murders, rapists, and child molesters. if you think it's lowering people to their level by killing them, well that's your opinion, but it doesn't mean you're right.

    2. One bullet doesn't cost a lot, and yes you might have a hard time finding someone to kill the person, not to mention they might regret it, but overall you won't have to use expensive chemicals or waste billions keeping them in prison.

    3.By killing them others will be less likely to do it because they probably don't want to die.

    4. yes it sucks for their families, if I had a family member in prison I would feel sad as fuck, but they did a terrible crime and it's their fault for doing it.

  10. Post #90
    OFWGKTA
    jbthekid's Avatar
    July 2011
    9,687 Posts
    I am also for the death penalty in certain situations, but I agree that it has been used to our advantage sometimes. In some cases, people really did not deserve it especially when they were innocent. Some people though, just need to be put to death.

  11. Post #91
    Kero_'s Avatar
    January 2009
    1,095 Posts
    For those of you who say that prison is about rehabilitation - what do you think about
    a murderer who did his crime just our of revenge, knowing what he did was wrong, being completely sane. Why wouldn't he deserve death sentence?

  12. Post #92
    King of the Oil Refinery
    Tobba's Avatar
    December 2008
    6,212 Posts
    I am also for the death penalty in certain situations, but I agree that it has been used to our advantage sometimes. In some cases, people really did not deserve it especially when they were innocent. Some people though, just need to be put to death.
    I also think something like this

    People should be in prision to be rehabilitated, which will mostly do the trick

    But some people are just beyond any fucking repair (Not saying we shouldent try though)

  13. Post #93
    CatFodder's Avatar
    August 2010
    1,027 Posts
    Not i will kill him,the poison will.
    Well, in that case, you'd better let him go free - after all, he didn't kill anyone, it was just his gun.

    I would say that it's very easy to justify the death penalty by saying that murderers and the like are 'no longer human' and so are no longer deserving of human rights. I think that's a very dangerous view; the idea that at any point the government can decide that someone no longer deserves human rights for any arbitrary reason. Surely the point of human rights is that they apply to all humans, regardless of what they've done.

  14. Post #94
    SlicedBread's Avatar
    December 2009
    149 Posts
    You can debate morals forever.
    I'd like to point out there is no deterrent effect, in fact, states WITH the death penalty have a higher crime rate, and states that drop the death penalty show NO CHANGE.

    It costs much more to do the death penalty then life in prison, about 2-3 times more also.

    And freeing up prison room? Yeah, a couple of cells. Might as well make minor offenders do community service.

  15. Post #95
    Ihazard's Avatar
    November 2010
    386 Posts
    I think if people have the ability to commit murder or such savage crimes anyway, then they're probably pretty numb to any sort of emotion, including fear of death, so I don't think it'll ever deter murder or crime in that sense

  16. Post #96
    Gold Member
    Carne's Avatar
    December 2007
    8,294 Posts
    Sometimes I feel like the only person who value human life, so it's nice with threads like these.

    I mean, even if I read about a person who slaughters countless human beings, I don't want him to die. Lock him up for the rest of his life, sure, but I don't think he should be killed. Let him sit and think about what he did.

  17. Post #97
    Gold Member
    Humantorch00's Avatar
    November 2005
    237 Posts
    3.By killing them others will be less likely to do it because they probably don't want to die.
    Not really. Around 88% of criminologists agree that the death penalty is not an effective deterrent for homicide. Even if the death penalty was more frequently used, nothing will change.

    Source

  18. Post #98
    Gold Member
    space1's Avatar
    April 2006
    592 Posts
    11) Mentally ill people who need treatment may be killed instead.
    But hey, if they're that mentally ill, it's likely that it's genetic and a good idea to end their gene pool so that they no longer are a threat.

    10) I fail to see how killing someone actually helps anyone.
    If I murder someone, I would want to get the death sentence. I could never live with it.

  19. Post #99
    Mcpaddyquack's Avatar
    August 2011
    503 Posts
    If you go to prison for killing someone, would you rather spend your entire life in prison and get treated like shit? Or just die and get it over with.

    Plus, I don't want to give some serial killer the chance to escape from a prison, or some gang leader to get busted out and continue with their crimes.

  20. Post #100
    Just a Homestuck OC with a massive dick
    Irockz's Avatar
    April 2011
    2,477 Posts
    Political debates, hurrah. I plan to be a magistrate in the future and I research law, so here we go...

    I see no wrong in culling anothers life, yet I do konw that it shouldn't be a court sentence. The fact is that we go to wars and we're OK with it. We sentence someone to death and everyone gets rowdy. Think about that. I only know it shouldn't be in court because, well, you've already listed the reasons.

  21. Post #101
    Gold Member
    Cone's Avatar
    August 2011
    18,859 Posts
    Well, in that case, you'd better let him go free - after all, he didn't kill anyone, it was just his gun.

    I would say that it's very easy to justify the death penalty by saying that murderers and the like are 'no longer human' and so are no longer deserving of human rights. I think that's a very dangerous view; the idea that at any point the government can decide that someone no longer deserves human rights for any arbitrary reason. Surely the point of human rights is that they apply to all humans, regardless of what they've done.
    Really, the view that human life means nothing as it becomes more convenient to your own morality is the most dangerous view of all. It's no different to the killer's own morality most of the time - that his killings mean little because those he killed meant little. If our own government and those in power take this view, then it's the same person sitting up high - just more power to get away with his killings.

    Edited:

    Political debates, hurrah. I plan to be a magistrate in the future and I research law, so here we go...

    I see no wrong in culling anothers life, yet I do konw that it shouldn't be a court sentence. The fact is that we go to wars and we're OK with it. We sentence someone to death and everyone gets rowdy. Think about that. I only know it shouldn't be in court because, well, you've already listed the reasons.
    Oh yes, because killing someone in self-defense is always the same as killing someone who's bound and helpless.

  22. Post #102
    Flem's Avatar
    September 2011
    868 Posts
    I would just base this whole system upon this.

    If you kill someone or try to attempt murder you will be executed as either way you have killed or tried to.

  23. Post #103
    ThisGuy0's Avatar
    July 2009
    2,119 Posts
    It disturbs me that people try to justify capital punishment with the 'if they do something reprehensible then they're not people any more' argument. Everyone is equal before the law, and it's not hard to see how judging someones intrinsic value as a human being based on their crime goes against that principle.

  24. Post #104
    Gold Member
    Cone's Avatar
    August 2011
    18,859 Posts
    It disturbs me that people try to justify capital punishment with the 'if they do something reprehensible then they're not people any more' argument. Everyone is equal before the law, and it's not hard to see how judging someones intrinsic value as a human being based on their crime goes against that principle.
    Really, it's kind of shocking to see so many people are taking this view. I mean... how do you become less than human from killing someone? You become in need of help in that event, not the scum of the Earth.

  25. Post #105
    Gold Member
    SpaceGhost's Avatar
    December 2010
    4,796 Posts
    I also think something like this

    People should be in prision to be rehabilitated, which will mostly do the trick

    But some people are just beyond any fucking repair (Not saying we shouldent try though)
    Prison makes people hardened criminals even more when they get out(if they do)

  26. Post #106
    ThisGuy0's Avatar
    July 2009
    2,119 Posts
    Prison makes people hardened criminals even more when they get out(if they do)
    That's far more a sign of the inadequecy of many prison systems than it is a sign of any problem with the idea of rehabilitation.

  27. Post #107
    Map in a box's Avatar
    July 2009
    7,173 Posts
    I was pretty pro-death penalty up until a few months ago. I don't know what did it, but I changed my mind pretty much overnight. I suppose it was the argument that executing a killer makes the state just as bad.
    Puberty can do that to a person.
    ---
    I'm pro Death Penalty. But not for small cases, like murder, that should be jailed. I'm talking about cases like mass murder, mass pedo, anything with a mass prefix.

  28. Post #108
    ThisGuy0's Avatar
    July 2009
    2,119 Posts
    I'm pro Death Penalty. But not for small cases, like murder, that should be jailed. I'm talking about cases like mass murder, mass pedo, anything with a mass prefix.
    I can understand that viewpoint, but why not the more humane option of giving those kind of criminals a full life sentence with access to euthanasia if they so desire? Either way they're not being let out into society again, so we might as well let them pick which option they prefer.

  29. Post #109
    Gold Member
    Cone's Avatar
    August 2011
    18,859 Posts
    Puberty can do that to a person.
    ---
    I'm pro Death Penalty. But not for small cases, like murder, that should be jailed. I'm talking about cases like mass murder, mass pedo, anything with a mass prefix.
    How does one "mass pedo"?

    Anyways, why does commiting the crime multiple times make them worth killing? Why not the first time, other than what I've alread said?

  30. Post #110
    Gold Member
    [sluggo]'s Avatar
    May 2010
    2,683 Posts
    Personaly, if someone murdured my whole familly. I wouldn't want my tax dollars going to keeping them alive and healthy, while they sit in a prison that may well be nicer than there house. Maybe it is just my lust for revenge, but I wouldn't want a person to enjoy there time in prison. They comitted a crime, and should be punished for it.

  31. Post #111
    ThisGuy0's Avatar
    July 2009
    2,119 Posts
    Personaly, if someone murdured my whole familly. I wouldn't want my tac dollars going to keeping them alive and healthy.
    Of course not, but we don't pass laws based on the emotions of the victims.

    Edited:

    Besides your tax dollars will be going towards them whether they get prison or the death sentence, so that argument doesn't serve much purpose.

  32. Post #112
    Gold Member
    [sluggo]'s Avatar
    May 2010
    2,683 Posts
    Of course not, but we don't pass laws based on the emotions of the victims.
    There is also practical reasoning behind this. Although it may sound a little extreme, I don't even think there should be a life sentence in prison, It never rehabilitates anyone, since they will never get out anyway. If someone has a life sentence, they obviously committed an awful crime, and should either have a way to make themselves profitable to the outside, law abiding world, or get out of the world (capital punishment)

  33. Post #113
    ThisGuy0's Avatar
    July 2009
    2,119 Posts
    There is also practical reasoning behind this. Although it may sound a little extreme, I don't even think there should be a life sentence in prison, It never rehabilitates anyone, since they will never get out anyway. If someone has a life sentence, they obviously committed an awful crime, and should either have a way to make themselves profitable to the outside, law abiding world, or get out of the world (capital punishment)
    I can understand that viewpoint, but why not the more humane option of giving those kind of criminals a full life sentence with access to euthanasia if they so desire? Either way they're not being let out into society again, so we might as well let them pick which option they prefer.

  34. Post #114
    Gold Member
    [sluggo]'s Avatar
    May 2010
    2,683 Posts
    Well, what options?

  35. Post #115
    ThisGuy0's Avatar
    July 2009
    2,119 Posts
    Well, what options?
    Life in prison or voluntary euthanasia. Either way the persons permanently removed from society, it's the most moral solution, plus it would probably work out less expensive than capital punishment.

  36. Post #116
    NATURALLY WIRED TO HAVE SEX WITH KIDS
    Rubs10's Avatar
    June 2007
    8,718 Posts
    1. Their's nothing "sacred" about a murders, rapists, and child molesters. if you think it's lowering people to their level by killing them, well that's your opinion, but it doesn't mean you're right.

    2. One bullet doesn't cost a lot, and yes you might have a hard time finding someone to kill the person, not to mention they might regret it, but overall you won't have to use expensive chemicals or waste billions keeping them in prison.

    3.By killing them others will be less likely to do it because they probably don't want to die.

    4. yes it sucks for their families, if I had a family member in prison I would feel sad as fuck, but they did a terrible crime and it's their fault for doing it.
    I don't think that logic has ever worked in the course of civilized history.

    Take the US prison system for example. Or punitive parents. Or any time that logic was ever used.

  37. Post #117
    CoolKingKaso's Avatar
    March 2010
    5,127 Posts
    If you go to prison for killing someone, would you rather spend your entire life in prison and get treated like shit? Or just die and get it over with.

    Plus, I don't want to give some serial killer the chance to escape from a prison, or some gang leader to get busted out and continue with their crimes.
    Accused murderers also stay in a highly secured prison for a "small" amount of years (max I've seen was 17) before they get executed.

    Edited:

    2. One bullet doesn't cost a lot, and yes you might have a hard time finding someone to kill the person, not to mention they might regret it, but overall you won't have to use expensive chemicals or waste billions keeping them in prison..
    People have to plan the execution carefully so that the criminal won't survive from it. I remember that in some states, if the criminal survives, he is free to go.

  38. Post #118
    Gold Member
    [sluggo]'s Avatar
    May 2010
    2,683 Posts
    Life in prison or voluntary euthanasia. Either way the persons permanently removed from society, it's the most moral solution, plus it would probably work out less expensive than capital punishment.
    Life in prison is not the moral option from the victims perspective (atleast not generally) and I think the victim is allot more important than the murdurer/rapist/whatever the hell he did.

    If anything you could let the victim decide, or have some way for inmates that choose life in prison to make themselves productive, and costless.

  39. Post #119
    Gold Member
    JDK721's Avatar
    July 2006
    7,982 Posts
    Life in prison is not the moral option from the victims perspective (atleast not generally) and I think the victim is allot more important than the murdurer/rapist/whatever the hell he did.

    If anything you could let the victim decide
    yes because a dead person sure can make decisions

  40. Post #120
    Gold Member
    SpaceGhost's Avatar
    December 2010
    4,796 Posts
    Accused murderers also stay in a highly secured prison for a "small" amount of years (max I've seen was 17) before they get executed.


    People have to plan the execution carefully so that the criminal won't survive from it. I remember that in some states, if the criminal survives, he is free to go.
    If you shoot them right between the eys you won't live, honestly how do people survive getting injected with chemicals or survive a gunshot to the head, it's a tiny chance they will anyway.