1. Post #241
    Gold Member
    Meller Yeller's Avatar
    June 2010
    10,329 Posts
    Like I said,


    It doesn't require critical thinking, if you applied critical thinking when reading/studying the bible, you'd find so many contradictions and immoral passages that it's not even funny.

    Also 'what is really meant from it', Guess what you can make any book say anything you want if you just spend some time to learn 'what is really meant from it'

    Which in this case means 'what you want it to mean'
    Contradictions sure but what is immoral varies from person to person and the Bible has been studies for generations upon generations. These people take this very seriously and these messages are definitely there on purpose as it's the entire point of the book.

  2. Post #242
    Gold Member

    May 2005
    2,268 Posts
    How can you expect an ancient religion to be up to date with the rhetoric and context of modern science? The discovery of the solar system was an amazing, perspective-changing event that expanded our view of reality. Ancient religious text must use word the people of the time would understand to explain events that science explains thousands of years later. Belief in God does not stem from a hate of scientific process and willful ignorance but from a desire to live life from a unique perspective and have accountability to a greater cause. If you have not experienced organized religion how can you judge it so vehemently?
    I grew up in a catholic family and did experience organized religion. Science and logic replaced my beliefs in the supernatural. The bottom line is just that there is no evidence for any of it whatsoever, and without evidence (and in the face of loads of contradictory evidence), there's no logical reason to believe in it anymore.

    So what if the stuff in the bible isn't true, but was believed back in the day. Scientists have gotten things wrong in the past and they had to change their theories to make them better. It does make sense.
    Yes scientists have gotten things wrong and that's the great thing about science. The information is always updating and refreshing our knowledge as opposed to a single textbook that never changes and threatens us with horrible consequences if we don't go along with the claims.

  3. Post #243
    Dennab
    February 2010
    9,945 Posts
    Religion isn't the cause of extremism, it's the base of it.
    No, it's just one of the three things needed to create an extremist. An extremist is not only religious, but as I already said, he's bloodthirsty and stupid. You see, religious people, angry people and stupid people are all equally easy to manipulate. And when you have all three in one person, you get an extremist. If such a person is told that he will go to heaven if he crashes a plane on a skyscraper, he will gladly agree. But if you tell just a simple religious person to kill somebody to go to heaven, they will disagree, because they're not that retarded.

  4. Post #244
    "some of those dragon dildo designs are pretty cool"
    EcksDee's Avatar
    February 2007
    8,910 Posts
    You forgot to read the question.
    Because your brain thinks it exists or wants it to exist. Even if you yourself say "Luck doesn't exist", that may not be the case for all that grey matter in your head.

  5. Post #245
    RusMar's Avatar
    June 2007
    572 Posts
    You don't know the scientific method do you.

    It forms hypotheses, confirms them and forms a theory.
    Did you know that correlations are just observations in an experiment and there is no way to prove that one caused the other one.

  6. Post #246
    Haunted by a dark and stupid past
    Key_in_skillee's Avatar
    December 2009
    3,244 Posts
    The bottom line is that there is no evidence to prove god exists, and there's only so many times religion is going to be able to be repackaged into something more modern that fits with scientific evidence until people finally realize it doesn't make sense.
    Why is Science allowed to continually evolve and adapt but somehow religion isn't? Scientific people a long time ago believed in spontaneous generation, does that mean that Science now is invalid? You're being illogical.

  7. Post #247
    RusMar's Avatar
    June 2007
    572 Posts
    Because your brain thinks it exists or wants it to exist. Even if you yourself say "Luck doesn't exist", that may not be the case for all that grey matter in your head.
    Can you say the same about religion?

  8. Post #248
    Gold Member
    carcarcargo's Avatar
    October 2007
    15,060 Posts
    I think that it's pretty fair to say that on a scientific basis you cannot prove that a god exists. I feel that proving to ones self that god exists is on a personal level of proof and entirely down to that persons interpretation of the idea.

  9. Post #249
    I like the fat, greasy nerds that wear MLP shirts three sizes too small
    Dennab
    February 2010
    1,417 Posts
    How many people ACTUALLY believe in what their religion tells them?
    By ACTUALLY I mean read it, it made sense in your head, you thought of it multiple times, and came to the conclusion - "Yep, it's real."

    Now, how many people were TOLD that it is real by someone and you just said "Cool, if *insert person here* said it's real, then it MUST be real".

    Be as honest as possible.

  10. Post #250
    "some of those dragon dildo designs are pretty cool"
    EcksDee's Avatar
    February 2007
    8,910 Posts
    Contradictions sure but what is immoral varies from person to person and the Bible has been studies for generations upon generations. These people take this very seriously and these messages are definitely there on purpose as it's the entire point of the book.
    However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

    Study that passage and make it say that it is not right to own another human being as property.

  11. Post #251
    Gold Member
    Rct33's Avatar
    May 2006
    994 Posts
    Did you know that correlations are just observations in an experiment and there is no way to prove that one caused the other one.
    It is obvious that correlation =/= causation and you can never truly prove a scientific theory. But there is a thing called evidence.

  12. Post #252
    Gold Member
    carcarcargo's Avatar
    October 2007
    15,060 Posts
    How many people ACTUALLY believe in what their religion tells them?
    By ACTUALLY I mean read it, it made sense in your head, you thought of it multiple times, and came to the conclusion - "Yep, it's real."

    Now, how many people were TOLD that it is real by someone and you just said "Cool, if *insert person here* said it's real, then it MUST be real".

    Be as honest as possible.
    I have contemplated it many times, many times I have considered atheism, however on a personal level I felt that my religious beliefs were right.

  13. Post #253
    Contains Vitamin K!
    Cabbage's Avatar
    January 2011
    7,297 Posts
    I only just got the Mass Debate joke. I feel stupid.

    On topic:

    I personally don't agree with the people who say that atheists view other people as just carbon based lifeforms in which chemical reactions take place, bla bla. Not true. Ask any Athiest what any other person is. The least they would say is 'a human being'. I think the argument that 'without god there are no morals' is totally defunct...

  14. Post #254
    "some of those dragon dildo designs are pretty cool"
    EcksDee's Avatar
    February 2007
    8,910 Posts
    Did you know that correlations are just observations in an experiment and there is no way to prove that one caused the other one.
    The scientific method tries to create as much of a control environment as possible, meaning it tries to change as few variables as possible.

    If these variables cause a specific change, it is noted down.
    This process is then repeated with different variables until you see that, for example, the feeling of reward when you get praised for hard work has been shown to be caused by the brain releasing dopamine through loads of scientific research.

  15. Post #255
    Gold Member
    Meller Yeller's Avatar
    June 2010
    10,329 Posts
    However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

    Study that passage and make it say that it is not right to own another human being as property.
    Jesus' new covenant did away with much of the old law and said we should not live our life by the old testament

  16. Post #256
    Haunted by a dark and stupid past
    Key_in_skillee's Avatar
    December 2009
    3,244 Posts
    I personally don't agree with the people who say that atheists view other people as just carbon based lifeforms in which chemical reactions take place, bla bla. Not true.
    Quite a lot of people on Facepunch have tried to argue that specifically.

  17. Post #257
    I like the fat, greasy nerds that wear MLP shirts three sizes too small
    Dennab
    February 2010
    1,417 Posts
    I have contemplated it many times, many times I have considered atheism, however on a personal level I felt that my religious beliefs were right.
    How did you begin believing what you believe in right now?

  18. Post #258
    Gold Member

    May 2005
    2,268 Posts
    Why is Science allowed to continually evolve and adapt but somehow religion isn't? Scientific people a long time ago believed in spontaneous generation, does that mean that Science now is invalid? You're being illogical.
    Religion's response to evolution is still "god did it".. that's not adapting and evolving. They stick to one belief. Science would throw evolution out and test other theories if it was proved wrong. Religion will not agree to their belief being proven wrong and instead will just say "god did it".

  19. Post #259
    RusMar's Avatar
    June 2007
    572 Posts
    The scientific method tries to create as much of a control environment as possible, meaning it tries to change as few variables as possible.

    If these variables cause a specific change, it is noted down.
    This process is then repeated with different variables until you see that, for example, the feeling of reward when you get praised for hard work has been shown to be caused by the brain releasing dopamine through loads of scientific research.
    It does a really good job too but it just cannot prove every error and reasoning behind every decision we make. So some people (not me, because I actually agree with psychology) can say that god helped them make that decision.

  20. Post #260
    "some of those dragon dildo designs are pretty cool"
    EcksDee's Avatar
    February 2007
    8,910 Posts
    Jesus' new covenant did away with much of the old law and said we should not live our life by the old testament
    Matt 5:18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

  21. Post #261
    Gold Member
    Chrille's Avatar
    August 2005
    5,427 Posts
    Did you know that correlations are just observations in an experiment and there is no way to prove that one caused the other one.
    Science isn't about proving anything. It's about probability. If there is a pattern in something, such as placebo having an effect on a patient, it's probable that there is a correlation.

    And yes, evolutionary psychology explains human behavior.

    Evolutionary psychology (EP) is an approach in the social and natural sciences that examines psychological traits such as memory, perception, and language from a modern evolutionary perspective. It seeks to identify which human psychological traits are evolved adaptations, that is, the functional products of natural selection or sexual selection. Adaptationist thinking about physiological mechanisms, such as the heart, lungs, and immune system, is common in evolutionary biology. Evolutionary psychology applies the same thinking to psychology, arguing that the mind has a modular structure similar to that of the body, with different modular adaptations serving different functions. Evolutionary psychologists argue that much of human behavior is the output of psychological adaptations that evolved to solve recurrent problems in human ancestral environments.
    It uses evolution to EXPLAIN/IDENTIFY why humans behave the way we do. How can you not get this.

  22. Post #262
    Gold Member
    Rct33's Avatar
    May 2006
    994 Posts
    Religion's response to evolution is still "god did it".. that's not adapting and evolving. They stick to one belief. Science would throw evolution out and test other theories if it was proved wrong. Religion will not agree to their belief being proven wrong and instead will just say "god did it".
    Then you are missing the point of religion.

  23. Post #263
    Gold Member
    carcarcargo's Avatar
    October 2007
    15,060 Posts
    How did you begin believing what you believe in right now?
    Admittedly I was born into it, but that doesn't mean I just took it, I contemplated it many times, asked various questions, looked at other view points, but eventually on a level personal to me i came to conclusion that my religious beliefs were right.

  24. Post #264
    RAPISTS ARE OPPRESSED
    mobrockers2's Avatar
    April 2011
    12,403 Posts
    Jesus' new covenant did away with much of the old law and said we should not live our life by the old testament
    You're saying god suddenly changed his mind and wrote a new book with new rules to follow?

  25. Post #265
    Bat-shit's Avatar
    October 2010
    12,506 Posts
    It uses evolution to EXPLAIN/IDENTIFY why humans behave the way we do. How can you not get this.
    Yeah we know how humans behave alright. We know all about it.

    Anyway, God shouldn't really be worthy of all the discussion it sparks up in people like in here. It's very obvious that God is a product of the human mind, that's like common logic sense. And it's not really about scientific study either. We just happen to know so much about our world and the space it's miraculous!

  26. Post #266
    Scar's Avatar
    September 2010
    4,166 Posts
    Jesus' new covenant did away with much of the old law and said we should not live our life by the old testament
    So, what if that happened again? If, for instance, some arabic dude named Mohammed, said that the New Testament was bull, what is the differance from him doing it and Jesus doing the same with the Old Tstament?

  27. Post #267
    Gold Member
    booster's Avatar
    July 2006
    21,088 Posts
    "...and on the first day, man created god."

    Anyhow, the bible itself really just seems like a bunch of "Chinese telephone" writings.

    What one translator/copier saw wrote down, another didn't. And this has probably changed alot of the content in the past 2000 years.

  28. Post #268
    RusMar's Avatar
    June 2007
    572 Posts
    Science isn't about proving anything. It's about probability. If there is a pattern in something, such as placebo having an effect on a patient, it's probable that there is a correlation.

    And yes, evolutionary psychology explains human behavior.



    It uses evolution to EXPLAIN/IDENTIFY why humans behave the way we do. How can you not get this.
    This thread is about proving things right?

    Do you realize that the paragraph you posted says "seeks to identify"

  29. Post #269
    I wasted a dollar on a stupid title.
    nikomo's Avatar
    September 2007
    16,846 Posts
    For anyone using the Bible as a source of anything in an argument, have a watch: (all of the sources are in the description of the video)

  30. Post #270
    Contains Vitamin K!
    Cabbage's Avatar
    January 2011
    7,297 Posts
    When I was younger, I used to think God was just a head and two hands (sort of like Rayman) that made humans on his laptop and then pressed a button to put them on the Earth
    Did anyone else have weird ideas like that? One person I knew viewed him as a badger on a beachball....

  31. Post #271
    Gold Member
    carcarcargo's Avatar
    October 2007
    15,060 Posts
    This thread is about proving things right?

    Do you realize that the paragraph you posted says "seeks to identify"
    no this thread is about the logic of it.

  32. Post #272
    HeatPipe's Avatar
    October 2007
    1,574 Posts
    We can simulate "living things" with computer. And we are their gods.

    What if we really live in simulation and they don't really watch us all the time, just peek from time to time?

    But we will never know, so it's better to live as if there is no gods.

  33. Post #273
    Haunted by a dark and stupid past
    Key_in_skillee's Avatar
    December 2009
    3,244 Posts
    Religion's response to evolution is still "god did it".. that's not adapting and evolving. They stick to one belief. Science would throw evolution out and test other theories if it was proved wrong. Religion will not agree to their belief being proven wrong and instead will just say "god did it".
    Now you're just not making any sense.

  34. Post #274
    Contains Vitamin K!
    Cabbage's Avatar
    January 2011
    7,297 Posts
    Quite a lot of people on Facepunch have tried to argue that specifically.
    Against or for? Personally if you argue for I don't understand how you could possibly think that.

  35. Post #275
    RusMar's Avatar
    June 2007
    572 Posts
    no this thread is about the logic of it.
    There is no logic behind it though.

  36. Post #276
    I like the fat, greasy nerds that wear MLP shirts three sizes too small
    Dennab
    February 2010
    1,417 Posts
    Admittedly I was born into it, but that doesn't mean I just took it, I contemplated it many times, asked various questions, looked at other view points, but eventually on a level personal to me i came to conclusion that my religious beliefs were right.
    I see... I guess for some people it is harder to find their true beliefs. Seems perfectly logical judging by the fact that everyone is different. I recommend attempting to research and trying your best to find the thing you believe in THE MOST by turning over a new leaf and attempting to scrap your current beliefs all together.

    Edit: It's worth it. Not only did it change my views on religion, but it changed my view on life completely. It feels like I wasn't myself until I realized what I truly believe in.

  37. Post #277
    Gold Member
    Rct33's Avatar
    May 2006
    994 Posts
    There is no logic behind it though.
    I don't even get what your argument is.

  38. Post #278
    Gold Member

    May 2005
    2,268 Posts
    Now you're just not making any sense.
    Evolution challenges faith - "God created evolution"
    Discovery of fossils proving earth is older than 6000 - "God put them there to test us"

    That isn't evolving/adapting your beliefs, that's making up excuses.

    Anyway I need to go for a bit ill be back later.

  39. Post #279
    Haunted by a dark and stupid past
    Key_in_skillee's Avatar
    December 2009
    3,244 Posts
    Against or for? Personally if you argue for I don't understand how you could possibly think that.
    Join the club.

  40. Post #280
    RusMar's Avatar
    June 2007
    572 Posts
    I don't even get what your argument is.
    There is no logic behind religion like there is no logic behind every human thought. We have psychology which seeks to understand human behavior but it still cannot explain everything. Just like how theories about how the universe were created cannot be proven, that is my opinion of why people believe in religion.