1. Post #561
    Flyingman356's Avatar
    June 2008
    5,027 Posts
    I believe that circumcision should be decided when they are born. It will hurt a lot less than when they are older. Plus when you are circumcised it is easier to clean your dick. I am not Jewish, but I am circumcised due to it being more hygienic.
    actually it hurts like, far, far more. Newborn babies are much more sensitive.
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  2. Post #562
    Gold Member
    cis.joshb's Avatar
    January 2011
    1,874 Posts
    I think the problem lies with the fact that while it is (and should be) a personal choice, by the time you are mature enough to make such a choice it becomes much more painful/embarrassing. Having the foreskin removed when you are a baby or 5-6 years old is nothing compared to getting it removed when you are 18+, it must be hell.

    Another point to consider is the cultural aspect of it, apart from religion. In cultures where circumcision is normal and expected, it is a rite of passage and the families are expected to go through with it. It might seem odd, but if you are not part of the culture, who are you to judge it? And if you are part of the culture and have valid criticisms, you are allowed to not go through with the tradition and perhaps risk being gossiped about or shunned. I know this is not a fair choice, but that is the circumstance.

    Honestly I can't see what this debate is about. If you are uncircumcised and are from a non-circumcision background you basically have very little say in this since you cannot fully grasp the social and cultural aspects of the process. If you are uncircumcised and are from a circumcision background, your parents either decided you should have a choice or something else happened. You might have been ostracised for that decision, but again it has no bearing on the issue of circumcision anyway.

    If you are circumcised, regardless of background, it is too late anyway. If you feel very strongly about it, you are perfectly within your rights to not have your kids circumcised and leave the choice up to them, but that does not give you the right to be self-righteous about other cultures and beliefs.
    What the fuck gives their parents the right to cut off a normal part of their body (unless for medical reasons blah blah blah).

    Edited:

    i agree that it should be the choice of the child at 18 whether to get circumcised unless there is a health issue. But there is a problem with the government attempting to regulate religious choices. And if the government could pass it then there would be the trouble of parents attempting to do it without a trained doctor to "save their childrens souls" or some crap like that.
    We can't ban radical Islam terrorism because it violates their religion!
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  3. Post #563

    June 2012
    478 Posts
    Anyone mention yet that circumcision reduces the chance of spreading aids to your partner?
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/29/health/29hiv. link dead for me


    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/13/health/13cnd-hiv.html new link
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  4. Post #564
    sonerin's Avatar
    May 2008
    1,534 Posts
    Anyone mention yet that circumcision reduces the chance of spreading aids to your partner?
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/29/health/29hiv.
    Did you know that if you pull out all of your teeth you will never get tooth decay and mouth infections?

    Let's pull our teeth out.

    Did you know that if you cut off your hand you will never have Dupuytren's contracture?

    Let's cut off our hands.

    Did you know that if you cut off your foreskin you might reduce the chances of getting aids?

    Let's cut off our foreskins.

    Etc.

    Even if it does, you don't have the right to mutilate a baby's penis without his/her consent unless it's medically essential (disease, etc.)
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  5. Post #565
    Gold Member
    FFStudios's Avatar
    August 2008
    10,248 Posts
    What it boils down to, ultimately, is that circumcision will never get banned. People can find a way to disagree with everything and it can suit them just fine. And again, because while you believe a parent has no right to "mutilate" a baby, we believe that you have no right to say what should or shouldn't happen to somebody else's child.

    Besides the fact that you're degrading everything by calling us mutilated. Nice neutral word choice there, master debaters. (not that i'm really particularly offended by it, somebody else might be)
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  6. Post #566
    sonerin's Avatar
    May 2008
    1,534 Posts
    What it boils down to, ultimately, is that circumcision will never get banned. People can find a way to disagree with everything and it can suit them just fine. And again, because while you believe a parent has no right to "mutilate" a baby, we believe that you have no right to say what should or shouldn't happen to somebody else's child.

    Besides the fact that you're degrading everything by calling us mutilated. Nice neutral word choice there, master debaters. (not that i'm really particularly offended by it, somebody else might be)
    It's about to be banned in Germany.

    And infants can't decide what they want to happen to their bodies at that age, so no parents should be allowed to butcher their babies without their consent. And for that, they have to be 18 years old. It's like chopping your infant's fingers off because it's your kid.
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  7. Post #567

    June 2012
    478 Posts
    Did you know that if you pull out all of your teeth you will never get tooth decay and mouth infections?

    Let's pull our teeth out.

    Did you know that if you cut off your hand you will never have Dupuytren's contracture?

    Let's cut off our hands.

    Did you know that if you cut off your foreskin you might reduce the chances of getting aids?

    Let's cut off our foreskins.

    Etc.

    Even if it does, you don't have the right to mutilate a baby's penis without his/her consent unless it's medically essential (disease, etc.)
    Bad examples tbh.
    Tooth disease? not transmissible to others, and easy preventative measures
    Dupuytren's contracture? i have no idea what this is/ is it genetic? ie/ is it preventable at all?


    And its not "might reduce the chances"- if you had read the source- it does reduce the chance. Its prolly the safest, easiest, cheapest way to get that dramatic of result

    Not really the point though, you seem to be stuck on the "mutilation" aspect...
    Tbh i feel like your ignoring the worst forms of circumcision (commonly done to baby girls in third world countries) while railing against the safest, most benign form of circumcision...

    I have yet to meet anyone who had this done as a baby, who actually cared one way or the other latter in life (to be fair the reverse is also true)

    in short/ yes the most severe cases should be banned (in most countries it is). But i honestly dont care about the safe style that is religiously practiced.

    Why can they do this to their kid? Well for starters its their kid. Its also their religion.

    Combine the two and as long as theres no disability because of it- i dont see a problem.
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  8. Post #568
    sonerin's Avatar
    May 2008
    1,534 Posts
    Bad examples tbh.
    Tooth disease? not transmissible to others, and easy preventative measures
    Dupuytren's contracture? i have no idea what this is/ is it genetic? ie/ is it preventable at all?


    And its not "might reduce the chances"- if you had read the source- it does reduce the chance. Its prolly the safest, easiest, cheapest way to get that dramatic of result

    Not really the point though, you seem to be stuck on the "mutilation" aspect...
    Tbh i feel like your ignoring the worst forms of circumcision (commonly done to baby girls in third world countries) while railing against the safest, most benign form of circumcision...

    I have yet to meet anyone who had this done as a baby, who actually cared one way or the other latter in life (to be fair the reverse is also true)

    in short/ yes the most severe cases should be banned (in most countries it is). But i honestly dont care about the safe style that is religiously practiced.

    Why can they do this to their kid? Well for starters its their kid. Its also their religion.

    Combine the two and as long as theres no disability because of it- i dont see a problem.
    There's no "it's their kid, I can do whatever I want with him" and "I want to apply my religious beliefs on someone who doesn't even know what 'hello' means" in our world and there shouldn't be.

    Just because circumcision might have one or two benefits doesn't make it okay for you to chop your child's skin off like that.
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  9. Post #569
    Meatpuppet's Avatar
    July 2010
    6,696 Posts
    There's no "it's their kid, I can do whatever I want with him" and "I want to apply my religious beliefs on someone who doesn't even know what 'hello' means" in our world and there shouldn't be.

    Just because circumcision might have one or two benefits doesn't make it okay for you to chop your child's skin off like that.
    Of all the examples you provided, you listed taking out vital/extremely integral organs. How is foreskin integral to any action? At all? The parents can do what they want with their kid; that is freedom. They can also choose to give them shots. What if they didn't give the baby a tetanus shot? He would have a greater chance of getting tetanus. What if they didn't circumcise the baby? He would have a greater chance of getting infections/spreading AIDs.
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  10. Post #570
    Gold Member
    Jookia's Avatar
    July 2007
    6,768 Posts
    Shots medically help the children. It's still unknown if circumcision provides any benefits.
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  11. Post #571
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    November 2006
    6,827 Posts
    I know one thing, if I ever have a boy, I'm NOT circumcising him. I will teach him how too clean what he has.
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  12. Post #572
    Meatpuppet's Avatar
    July 2010
    6,696 Posts
    Shots medically help the children. It's still unknown if circumcision provides any benefits.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/13/he...-hiv.html?_r=1
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  13. Post #573
    Gold Member
    Jookia's Avatar
    July 2007
    6,768 Posts
    Interesting, but it lacks a source and they stopped the study before completion which makes me a little suspicious of the results.
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  14. Post #574
    sonerin's Avatar
    May 2008
    1,534 Posts
    Of all the examples you provided, you listed taking out vital/extremely integral organs. How is foreskin integral to any action? At all? The parents can do what they want with their kid; that is freedom. They can also choose to give them shots. What if they didn't give the baby a tetanus shot? He would have a greater chance of getting tetanus. What if they didn't circumcise the baby? He would have a greater chance of getting infections/spreading AIDs.
    Foreskin protects the glans, it protects the penis, it keeps the nerves alive, it helps penis grow longer, et cetera.

    And a tetanus shot doesn't give someone a permanent mutilation, it's just medicine for fuck's sake. That example was retarded.

    And no, parents can't do whatever they want with their children.
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  15. Post #575
    Leader of Me's Avatar
    October 2010
    761 Posts
    Of all the examples you provided, you listed taking out vital/extremely integral organs. How is foreskin integral to any action? At all? The parents can do what they want with their kid; that is freedom. They can also choose to give them shots. What if they didn't give the baby a tetanus shot? He would have a greater chance of getting tetanus. What if they didn't circumcise the baby? He would have a greater chance of getting infections/spreading AIDs.
    The foreskin evolved to help keep the penis free from infection and to stop it from getting damaged, why would you want to remove something which is important to the penis? Most people don't realize that and just assume it's some useless flap of skin which has no function. Even if you think it's unimportant, it's still a piece of the child's body and they should decide what they want to do with it, even if there are no side effects from removing it. Any surgery or medical procedure that isn't beneficial to the child's life or well-being should not be performed without the child's consent, they can make their own mind up later.
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  16. Post #576
    Airship Bishop's Avatar
    January 2011
    248 Posts
    Being circumcised hasn't caused me any issues, (born during an era where it was a common to prevent some of the possible complications caused by a foreskin).

    I don't think there is a reason it should be practiced but it's not a terrible outrageous thing.

    However it shouldn't be preformed unless necessary, in my opinion.
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  17. Post #577
    MyBigBoner.com
    fritzel's Avatar
    March 2009
    4,615 Posts
    ^^I agree with your circumspect and uncircumcised idea of leaving the circumcision to necessity.
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  18. Post #578
    CowInParachute is a virgin
    JethroTheCunt's Avatar
    August 2005
    1,460 Posts
    I'm going to have to get a circumcision at some point due to a Phimotic ring on my penis. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preputioplasty)

    I would not have to have this surgery if I had been circumcised as a child.

    I cherish the 22 years I've had with my foreskin and all the soapy baths and hot showers.

    I'm glad it is my choice, even though the problems I have are a direct result of owning a foreskin.

    I would not circumcise any of my future male children because body mutilation as a form of preventative medicine is not right.
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  19. Post #579
    I pushed my dad off the stairs and all I got was he came back
    Aerkhan's Avatar
    October 2009
    4,767 Posts
    actually it hurts like, far, far more. Newborn babies are much more sensitive.
    except that they´re unconsious (didnt spell that right but im damn tired) when they do it, so they wont feel shit

    Edited:

    I'm going to have to get a circumcision at some point due to a Phimotic ring on my penis. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preputioplasty)

    I would not have to have this surgery if I had been circumcised as a child.

    I cherish the 22 years I've had with my foreskin and all the soapy baths and hot showers.

    I'm glad it is my choice, even though the problems I have are a direct result of owning a foreskin.

    I would not circumcise any of my future male children because body mutilation as a form of preventative medicine is not right.
    Believe me, youll love your new dick. Hot showers and soapy baths are only outlawed for 1.5ish months
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  20. Post #580

    August 2012
    1 Posts
    -snip-
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  21. Post #581
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    August 2005
    12,791 Posts
    Anyone mention yet that circumcision reduces the chance of spreading aids to your partner?
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/29/health/29hiv. link dead for me


    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/13/health/13cnd-hiv.html new link
    Maybe not have sex with someone that has aids?
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  22. Post #582
    Clops with bisousbisous daily <3
    Mr. Smartass's Avatar
    December 2010
    9,188 Posts
    except that they´re unconsious (didnt spell that right but im damn tired) when they do it, so they wont feel shit
    Yeah wow that baby sure is asleep.
    Look at him, all peaceful.
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  23. Post #583
    Flyingman356's Avatar
    June 2008
    5,027 Posts
    There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that circumcision reduces the likelihood of spreading Aids. Studies have been done that show it makes almost no difference, and anyway, why the fuck would it? Just think about it.
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  24. Post #584
    Adam Giamboner's Avatar
    October 2010
    200 Posts
    I only hate being circumcised due to discomfort when exercising.
       Dem briefs   
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  25. Post #585
    I pushed my dad off the stairs and all I got was he came back
    Aerkhan's Avatar
    October 2009
    4,767 Posts
    Yeah wow that baby sure is asleep.
    Look at him, all peaceful.
    What nation is that performed in? In The Netherlands (and i'm sure all of [West] Europe as well) they knock em out. 1 nation =/= the whole world.

    Edited:

    I only hate being circumcised due to discomfort when exercising.
       Dem briefs   
    Unless you twist your dick, you should have no problems. I excercise and I have no discomfort whatsoever.

    Edited:

    There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that circumcision reduces the likelihood of spreading Aids. Studies have been done that show it makes almost no difference, and anyway, why the fuck would it? Just think about it.
    Because it doesn't.
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  26. Post #586
    SparkDog's Avatar
    October 2005
    300 Posts
    had sex with my girlfriend for the first time last month, I'm uncut. She's been with circumsized guys before, and she didn't mind a bit. The topic of circumcision came up a couple of weeks later and she said if we had kids she would be against circumcising them.

    oh and I lasted an ~40 minutes the first couple of times and then about ~20 after a few more. Can't say I felt mega sensitive with a condom so for me that's not a disadvantage at all
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  27. Post #587
    Gold Member
    Evilan's Avatar
    February 2009
    3,831 Posts
    I don't see what's wrong with circumcision. I've personally been cut, and have been since birth and so far life for my penis has been peachy.

    Some of the people in this thread have called it "mutilation" or compared it to cutting off another body part. The difference is that the foreskin doesn't serve any vital purpose, kind of like the appendix, which actually has a greater risk of causing negative effects than positive. Or in another FPer's comparison, two toes, which are vital to stability.

    The debate about health risks of getting cut vs. staying intact seems to kind of even out. Circumcision seems to be a preventative system that is simply useful not in preventing STIs/STDs, but rather conditions that can arise from not getting cut. That being said, it's still not very likely that anyone who has an intact penis is going to get these complications anyways.

    As of right now, if I were to have a son, I would probably push to have him circumcised after birth. Not that I am strongly biased one way or the other, I just don't see a reason not to. And before anyone pipes in about sex being less pleasurable, I can attest that I still feel plenty of pleasure having sex.
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  28. Post #588
    Dancing Member
    BlueYoshi's Avatar
    July 2009
    2,753 Posts
    I don't see what's wrong with circumcision. I've personally been cut, and have been since birth and so far life for my penis has been peachy.

    Some of the people in this thread have called it "mutilation" or compared it to cutting off another body part. The difference is that the foreskin doesn't serve any vital purpose, kind of like the appendix, which actually has a greater risk of causing negative effects than positive. Or in another FPer's comparison, two toes, which are vital to stability.

    The debate about health risks of getting cut vs. staying intact seems to kind of even out. Circumcision seems to be a preventative system that is simply useful not in preventing STIs/STDs, but rather conditions that can arise from not getting cut. That being said, it's still not very likely that anyone who has an intact penis is going to get these complications anyways.

    As of right now, if I were to have a son, I would probably push to have him circumcised after birth. Not that I am strongly biased one way or the other, I just don't see a reason not to. And before anyone pipes in about sex being less pleasurable, I can attest that I still feel plenty of pleasure having sex.
    Let's say that your son would actually be against it, the decision would already have been made and he had no choice. If you had not chosen to do it he could have done it later if he so wanted. And now some people might say that "He wouldn't do it when later in adulthood, hes too embarrased!" well, that only proves the point that even simple embarrasment can stop people from doing it which means it really isn't such a big problem washing your dong.
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  29. Post #589
    Pasalaqcua's Avatar
    August 2010
    2,207 Posts
    except that they´re unconsious (didnt spell that right but im damn tired) when they do it, so they wont feel shit
    That is completely false, in most cases the child will actually faint due to the pain.
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  30. Post #590
    Flyingman356's Avatar
    June 2008
    5,027 Posts
    As of right now, if I were to have a son, I would probably push to have him circumcised after birth. Not that I am strongly biased one way or the other, I just don't see a reason not to. And before anyone pipes in about sex being less pleasurable, I can attest that I still feel plenty of pleasure having sex.
    If you've never experienced sex with a foreskin you wouldn't know.
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  31. Post #591
    itty-bitty pretty kitty
    Dennab
    September 2008
    9,837 Posts
    I don't see what's wrong with circumcision. I've personally been cut, and have been since birth and so far life for my penis has been peachy.

    Some of the people in this thread have called it "mutilation" or compared it to cutting off another body part. The difference is that the foreskin doesn't serve any vital purpose, kind of like the appendix, which actually has a greater risk of causing negative effects than positive. Or in another FPer's comparison, two toes, which are vital to stability.

    The debate about health risks of getting cut vs. staying intact seems to kind of even out. Circumcision seems to be a preventative system that is simply useful not in preventing STIs/STDs, but rather conditions that can arise from not getting cut. That being said, it's still not very likely that anyone who has an intact penis is going to get these complications anyways.

    As of right now, if I were to have a son, I would probably push to have him circumcised after birth. Not that I am strongly biased one way or the other, I just don't see a reason not to. And before anyone pipes in about sex being less pleasurable, I can attest that I still feel plenty of pleasure having sex.
    The reason not to is because it's fucking painful and there's no reason to do it.
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  32. Post #592
    Gold Member
    FFStudios's Avatar
    August 2008
    10,248 Posts
    If you've never experienced sex with a foreskin you wouldn't know.
    I'm pretty sure we can all agree there isn't a significant difference. Anybody that tries to say otherwise is just lying to try and further their point.

    You can't physically remember anything from when you were younger than two years old, so the painful argument doesn't matter. It's literally going to be forgotten and cause no mental anguish or leave any permanent mark.

    Edited:

    "I don't like what other people are doing so I'm going to try and make it illegal."

    If you can't see the point in it, that's fine, you can live ignorantly if you'd like. I'm just saying, if you're uncut OR cut, you don't really have a say in it because nothing is ever going to change.
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  33. Post #593
    MEGA SENPAI KAWAII UGUU~~ =^_^=
    Megafan's Avatar
    September 2008
    14,608 Posts
    I'm pretty sure we can all agree there isn't a significant difference. Anybody that tries to say otherwise is just lying to try and further their point.

    You can't physically remember anything from when you were younger than two years old, so the painful argument doesn't matter. It's literally going to be forgotten and cause no mental anguish or leave any permanent mark.
    Whether you can remember or not is not the point, and whether or not you specifically mind it is not the point either. I'm sure you could physically harm a baby in other ways and it might not remember that in detail afterwards, but you wouldn't do it. The point is that the child is not able to give consent to this procedure, and the parents are not (or in places where they are, should not) be able to decide whether or not their child needs it on such flimsy criteria as 'easier to clean' and 'will still be able to masturbate'.

    Edited:

    "I don't like what other people are doing so I'm going to try and make it illegal."

    If you can't see the point in it, that's fine, you can live ignorantly if you'd like. I'm just saying, if you're uncut OR cut, you don't really have a say in it because nothing is ever going to change.
    And this part in particular is especially nonsense, essentially the defeatist's argument: "It will never change! How I know this to be certain I have no idea, but it definitely will never change!"

    Yes, I'm sure that's why the issue of whether circumcision be illegal or not is an issue almost everywhere on some level.
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  34. Post #594
    I pushed my dad off the stairs and all I got was he came back
    Aerkhan's Avatar
    October 2009
    4,767 Posts
    That is completely false, in most cases the child will actually faint due to the pain.
    Only in a backwards nation like the USA.
    Here in The Netherlands we knock you out before the operation.
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  35. Post #595
    Gold Member
    SpaceGhost's Avatar
    December 2010
    4,836 Posts
    I only hate being circumcised due to discomfort when exercising.
       Dem briefs   
    Doesn't bother me at all.
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  36. Post #596
    Leader of Me's Avatar
    October 2010
    761 Posts
    I'm pretty sure we can all agree there isn't a significant difference. Anybody that tries to say otherwise is just lying to try and further their point.

    You can't physically remember anything from when you were younger than two years old, so the painful argument doesn't matter. It's literally going to be forgotten and cause no mental anguish or leave any permanent mark.

    Edited:

    "I don't like what other people are doing so I'm going to try and make it illegal."

    If you can't see the point in it, that's fine, you can live ignorantly if you'd like. I'm just saying, if you're uncut OR cut, you don't really have a say in it because nothing is ever going to change.
    Just because they won't remember it later on doesn't mean that we have the right to perform such a heinous operation without them being knocked out.
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  37. Post #597
    itty-bitty pretty kitty
    Dennab
    September 2008
    9,837 Posts
    By the logic that not remembering it makes it OK, I could hit you in the head with a baseball bat and castrate you and it'd be fine.
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  38. Post #598
    Gold Member
    Evilan's Avatar
    February 2009
    3,831 Posts
    By the logic that not remembering it makes it OK, I could hit you in the head with a baseball bat and castrate you and it'd be fine.
    That is a horribly ignorant comparison. If you hit him in the head with a baseball bat he could have severe brain damage and possible mental instability going forward. A newborn does not have a developed enough brain to maintain long term memories nor are they even able to remember feelings or sensations. It would be better to go down 'Leader of Me's' argument that the baby should be knocked out before the operation takes place.

    Edited:

    If you've never experienced sex with a foreskin you wouldn't know.
    If you've never experienced sex without a foreskin you wouldn't know.
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  39. Post #599

    May 2012
    5 Posts
    I think if your parents decided to get you circumcised at younger age its better then because you wont remember the pain...
    You should show your child how to wash his dick
    but i think it should be left to the person when they are older.
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  40. Post #600
    Dennab
    May 2012
    1,765 Posts
    Parents should have no permanent decisions in their child's life!

    I mean, why stop at circumcision? What if their kid doesn't like his name or gender?

    I vote for the imprisonment of all parents who name their children at birth! Its mutilation!
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