1. Post #1
    Thoughtless's Avatar
    September 2011
    689 Posts
    Christmas is a nice time of the year, and I love Christmas. But one thing confuses me about it, why does the christian churches insist on preaching to us about Christmas being a a celebration of the birth of Jesus.

    For Christians, Christmas isn't really an important religious festival, It was made up in the times of the early church to have a christian alternative to the winter solstice celebrations that the pagans did, It is unlikely that Jesus was born anywhere near December, and it is most likely he was born in April or May (If he was born). Only one of the gospels mentions the birth of Jesus, and after reading that it seams like it was mostly made up to confirm the Jewish prophecies of the birth of the Messiah. By contrast all of them go into a lot of detail about the events of Easter and the time before that, and Easter is the most important christian festival.

    I can see the reason why the church chose December as the time of the birth of Jesus, as most countries Christianity was spreading to had very harsh winters, and the pagans used to have a feast to celebrate the days getting longer and to give themselves a break from winter in the middle of it. I assume those pagans they converted to Christianity converted back a lot at the end of December because all the pagans where having feasts and they weren't. So the church created a feast as a christian alternative to the winter solstice celebrations. Now Christmas is largely secular and not really tied to any religion, the church can afford to stop celebrating Christmas religiously and stop banging on about how Jesus was born on the 25th of December when he clearly wasn't.

  2. Post #2

  3. Post #3
    dubstep
    SCopE5000's Avatar
    August 2005
    4,197 Posts
    They can believe what they want, as long as it doesn't attempt to alter my own beliefs (cause that's just shitty) or anyone else's in a forceful manner.

    Personally, I don't mind. I think Christmas is excellent for bringing people together.

  4. Post #4
    Thoughtless's Avatar
    September 2011
    689 Posts
    Do christians even celebrate it in any special matter.
    I come from a Catholic family, I know they have midnight masses and go to church for special masses leading up to Christmas and generally complain about the commercialization of Christmas. The one thing that annoys me is religious Christmas carols that sing stuff that isn't in the christian beliefs like the ones about the 3 wise men, when there is no mention that there was three of them anywhere in christian beliefs and that they came 12 days after his birth in Bethlehem, when the bible specifically says Jesus was a toddler.

  5. Post #5
    Shiftyze's Avatar
    April 2011
    2,876 Posts
    Do christians even celebrate it in any special matter.
    Oh if you only knew how many Christians in the US complained about how Atheists are ruining the meaning of Christmas when there is no meaning.

  6. Post #6
    Gold Member
    Ray-The-Sun's Avatar
    December 2007
    11,861 Posts
    I like how Christians complain that people don't get the true meaning of Christmas, even though the "true meaning" of the winter solstice was to binge, to feast, to indulge in the carnal pleasures and to sacrifice livestock in the name of whatever the fuck deity was yours for winter.

    Edited:

    Which is incredibly similar to Oestara, come to think of it. "That looks a lot like Easter!" you'll say, and that's because Easter is the spring equivalent of christmas: it was also taken from a pagan festival.

  7. Post #7
    Gold Member
    JustGman's Avatar
    December 2005
    6,058 Posts
    It's not even their holiday, they stole it from the pagans. Jesus wasn't born on Christmas either, goddamn.

  8. Post #8
    Knuffelbeer's Avatar
    October 2011
    399 Posts
    only the christmas tree is from germanic pagan beliefs
    santa claus is sinterklaas
    and i have no idea why we should buy presents for each other

  9. Post #9
    Gold Member
    Hellduck's Avatar
    March 2007
    5,739 Posts
    sacrifice livestock in the name of whatever the fuck deity was yours for winter.
    In some cases people too I believe.

  10. Post #10
    Racking in those Boxes
    Shenanigans's Avatar
    June 2010
    177 Posts
    What is with the double standard in this thread? You guys say you don't want Christmas to infringe upon your beliefs but after that state that Christians should change one of their most sacred Holidays? The reason why the early Church infused Pagan celebrations with the birth of Christ is because they wanted to gradually convert the Pagan populations while letting them keep their traditions so it wouldn't be so drastic.

  11. Post #11
    semite's Avatar
    July 2011
    145 Posts
    Christmas is the time where people buy things... that's about it. There's nothing "religious" about it anymore. It's just a period where consumerism runs amok.

  12. Post #12
    Racking in those Boxes
    Shenanigans's Avatar
    June 2010
    177 Posts
    That's my point so how can it offend differing creeds if the religious value has been removed and replaced with advertisement gimmicks?

  13. Post #13
    CabooseRvB's Avatar
    September 2009
    12,269 Posts
    That's my point so how can it offend differing creeds if the religious value has been removed and replaced with advertisement gimmicks?
    Because those creeds still hold the religious value in those holidays.

  14. Post #14
    TheIceman's Avatar
    September 2009
    4,396 Posts
    I stopped viewing Christmas as a religious fest a long time ago.

  15. Post #15
    Gold Member
    Kung Fu Jew's Avatar
    November 2006
    5,681 Posts
    christmas isnt a catholic/christian holiday and it never was to begin with

    its just a fun thing to do, everyone celebrates it, piss off and let us have our fun and stop being offended that we are happy.

  16. Post #16

    July 2010
    176 Posts
    have you ever been to a church during christmas time

    regardless of the semantics of what exact date he was born on, christmas is important to christians. it's rather subjective to say that "easter is the most important".

  17. Post #17
    Gold Member
    AK'z's Avatar
    January 2011
    29,917 Posts
    Such a pointless arguement.

    Think about it, atheists arguing about what Christians should believe in.

  18. Post #18
    SavaK's Avatar
    July 2006
    58 Posts
    Christmas transcends Christianity.

  19. Post #19
    Gold Member
    AK'z's Avatar
    January 2011
    29,917 Posts
    Christmas is a universal festival.

    Religion doesn't have to be directly related, but there's nothing wrong with singing about it.

  20. Post #20
    Spooter's Avatar
    August 2007
    954 Posts
    No. And what in the hell is the point of pointing out "Jesus wasn't born then, it's a pagan solstice date"? Who gives a shit? It's a religious holiday, why does it have to be historically accurate? No one ever says "Well Hanukkah is a bunch of shit those candles only burned for 7.45 days not eight!".

  21. Post #21
    Racking in those Boxes
    Shenanigans's Avatar
    June 2010
    177 Posts
    No. And what in the hell is the point of pointing out "Jesus wasn't born then, it's a pagan solstice date"? Who gives a shit? It's a religious holiday, why does it have to be historically accurate? No one ever says "Well Hanukkah is a bunch of shit those candles only burned for 7.45 days not eight!".
    Because Christianity is the specific target when people say they hate religion.

  22. Post #22
    Gold Member
    Vasili's Avatar
    December 2007
    10,947 Posts
    The catholic church moved the birth of Christ to 25th to collide with other winter celebrations in attempts to culturally insert itself.

    It worked as well.

  23. Post #23
    Ligger Nyncher
    Tacooo's Avatar
    August 2009
    7,153 Posts
    I'm Christian and I don't think my family make any major religious ties with it, due to only half of my family being Christian so we mostly make it about family, it's like Thanksgiving for people outside the US I guess

  24. Post #24
    Sock the Foot Cloth
    Dennab
    November 2010
    1,952 Posts
    Most people I know are just in it to spend time with family.

  25. Post #25
    Canuhearmenow's Avatar
    June 2011
    1,470 Posts
    I find Christmas to be an excellent time to spend time with family while going to religious services at my local church on Christmas Eve (they usually have great sermons on Easter/Christmas.)

  26. Post #26
    Ask me about my .gif fetish
    st0rmforce's Avatar
    February 2008
    3,594 Posts
    Christmas isn't as important as Easter for me and I wouldn't mind if it was mostly dropped by the church. There's too much stuff tacked on and there isn't a great deal of religious significance anyway.
    It's been going away from the church for a very long time and now all that's left is a load of iconography. Some kids seem to think that Jesus was a quiet little baby all his life, because they only ever go to church once a year and sing Away in a Manger.

  27. Post #27
    Gold Member
    Kuro.'s Avatar
    July 2006
    2,181 Posts
    They should, because it's been co-opted by corporate America and totally commercialized. Then again, with the amount of money some unscrupulous religous organizations make (tax-exempt money at that), maybe it's appropriate they keep celebrating a corrupted holiday?

  28. Post #28
    Ladowerf's Avatar
    March 2010
    793 Posts
    I really don't see how atheists could argue about what Christians should do

    I'm pretty sure most of you are atheist because of religion's use as a "mind control" sort of thing or a way to control people (atleast that is probably what started it), so this is kinda hypocritical of you, FP.

  29. Post #29
    Gold Member
    bIgFaTwOrM12's Avatar
    October 2010
    1,523 Posts
    Well I personally don't see a problem with somebody celebrating the birth of the very central figure of their religion. It is kind of a big deal when you think about it. Also the whole point of Christmas for Christians is to just remember what happened, sure there are Christmas services at church and stuff, but it all boils down to remembrance. So I guess I don't really see it as a festival, more of a memorial.

  30. Post #30
    Gold Member
    _Kent_'s Avatar
    June 2009
    2,450 Posts
    As a christian, I don't generally consider Christmas to be a religious occasion, except for the general theme of generosity.

    Especially since Jesus wasn't even born in the winter.

  31. Post #31
    LegndNikko's Avatar
    October 2009
    9,445 Posts
    No. And what in the hell is the point of pointing out "Jesus wasn't born then, it's a pagan solstice date"? Who gives a shit? It's a religious holiday, why does it have to be historically accurate? No one ever says "Well Hanukkah is a bunch of shit those candles only burned for 7.45 days not eight!".
    0.55 of a day =/= half a year

  32. Post #32
    salmonmarine's Avatar
    June 2010
    2,731 Posts
    The early Christians founded holidays celebrations on solstices and other pagan celebratory days to win converts more easily.

  33. Post #33
    Spooter's Avatar
    August 2007
    954 Posts
    0.55 of a day =/= half a year
    That's not the point. The point is why question the validity of a religious holiday based on something as trite (at least from the perspective of cultural significance) as historical accuracy?

  34. Post #34
    LegndNikko's Avatar
    October 2009
    9,445 Posts
    That's not the point. The point is why question the validity of a religious holiday based on something as trite (at least from the perspective of cultural significance) as historical accuracy?
    ...Because if its historically inaccurate, then it's invalid?
    The holiday celebrates the birth of Christ to be that day, when it isn't that day.
    It'd be like going "Hey, happy new year! Sure is great that 2012 started today!" when it's April of 2012.

  35. Post #35
    Gold Member
    Jookia's Avatar
    July 2007
    6,768 Posts
    I'm pretty sure most of you are atheist because of religion's use as a "mind control" sort of thing or a way to control people (atleast that is probably what started it), so this is kinda hypocritical of you, FP.
    Or we're atheist because we don't believe in a god.

  36. Post #36
    ripple3000's Avatar
    November 2011
    704 Posts
    Christmas isn't a Christian holiday, its a commercial holiday.

  37. Post #37
    LegndNikko's Avatar
    October 2009
    9,445 Posts
    Christmas isn't a Christian holiday, its a commercial holiday.
    It became one. It was never valid, but it was still there, coming from the Christian faith. Hence, Christmas.

  38. Post #38
    ripple3000's Avatar
    November 2011
    704 Posts
    It became one. It was never valid, but it was still there, coming from the Christian faith. Hence, Christmas.
    Christ, Mass. Oh I see.

  39. Post #39
    JCDentonUNATCO's Avatar
    November 2010
    5,337 Posts
    It became one. It was never valid, but it was still there, coming from the Christian faith. Hence, Christmas.
    It was forced then and its forced now.

  40. Post #40
    Knuffelbeer's Avatar
    October 2011
    399 Posts
    wait christmas started in america dindt it?