1. Post #121
    HulaDancer's Avatar
    February 2012
    56 Posts
    With current standings today, only 9% of American's polled said they supported Congress, which is a sad thing to ever hear about a government institution if you live in said country. So, we have a government which obviously seems corrupt, we have an extremely widening income gap, and our economy is so volatile it could bring depression to the world. So my question in short is, through your own opinion and facts, do you think our country is doomed, or are we seriously stressing out over small things while we're in a slow point?

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...roval-903.html
    http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/21/opinio...ure/index.html - source for the 9% reference. Herpes is more popular than Congress.
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  2. Post #122
    electric926's Avatar
    January 2009
    1,079 Posts
    People have been saying America was doomed since the country was founded. I'm disinclined to believe that now.
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  3. Post #123
    StephenOrlov's Avatar
    December 2009
    605 Posts
    There is hardly an emphasis on intellect or enlightenment in America. Most people are born into families of stupid/simple people and grow up in that sort of environment. It's actually pretty sad because they can't help it.

    Anyone that listens to Joe Rogan or George Carlin will know what I'm talking about.
    That's not true.

    High school graduate 87.14%
    Some college 55.90%
    Associate's and/or Bachelor's degree 39.06%
    Bachelor's degree 29.93%
    Master's degree 7.60%
    Doctorate or professional degree 2.93%

    40% of people in the United States age 25 and over have at least their bachelors degree. How is that "most" of people being born into simple/stupid families? That's just sort of absurd for you to generalize like that.
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  4. Post #124
    Lord_Ragnarok's Avatar
    July 2009
    2,096 Posts
    People have been saying America was doomed since the country was founded. I'm disinclined to believe that now.
    Really? Why? We were a country founding on ideals, and so far, those ideals have worked pretty well for Western Civilization. Yes, for a Western country, we aren't doing as great as we should be at the moment.


    Also, everyone quit with this "end of America" and "end of society" bullshit. Yes, politically chaotic things happen. The Western World made it through the Great Depression, two world wars and the red scare. I think we'll be fine. The only serious threat we face that could really do us in, which would also do in all civilization, is climate change. There are a lot of very bad things that can happen in the near future, but this isn't the Western world's, or America's for that matter, first rodeo.
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  5. Post #125
    Gold Member
    Stick it in her pooper's Avatar
    April 2009
    834 Posts
    It doesn't help when you xenophobic Bits and Europeans start mindlessly calling Americans fat/stupid, they even do it daily here in Estonia. Even though it's true to a percentage, it's not right
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  6. Post #126
    Panz3rfaust!'s Avatar
    September 2011
    61 Posts
    The big tripping stone of US is the federal reserve bank. The way it works.
    Almost every damn country has its own bank that controls the dosh. They emit too much money - it's bad; too little - it's bad. Now, US dollar is emitted by a pretty much private company. And they emit as much as they want. And this is already causing social and economic problems worldwide and in the states. Lets see how it goes...
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  7. Post #127
    Gold Member
    Devodiere's Avatar
    November 2009
    10,828 Posts
    Now that I think on it, I'm not sure what would actually make a civilisation fall, the real factors involved. Doom-sayers criticise everything from economic downturn to immigrants to defiant youths but what does make a civilisation fall.

    Many have fallen purely from conquest by another nation, but this is a more subtle fall. Rome comes to mind but I don't know enough about late Rome although things like lack of investment in infrastructure and vast expansion of bureaucracy are thrown around. Changing winds of time and an inability to adapt maybe but they are keeping up and that is only one case. I'm really not sure.
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  8. Post #128
    Dennab
    February 2010
    1,404 Posts
    i was actually planning on moving there but i don't really know if it's worth the trouble. i mean don't you either need to be a star or have fucking amazing degrees to be let in? even if i DO get in i would probably regret it. or save america from its assured doom

    americans please feedback
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  9. Post #129
    ~Tital~
    napalm_bomb's Avatar
    July 2009
    1,194 Posts
    I truly think America has declined in the past but I do think we will get past this and rise again.
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  10. Post #130
    Gold Member
    BCell's Avatar
    November 2006
    6,466 Posts
    Just a question. Will the United States of America still exist in 200 years time? Will this nation still be standing and supporting the world by the year 2200?

    Ok how about 500 years from now. In 2512 assuming we didn't nuke ourselves, will America be standing?

    If you think Nations are permanent, you are wrong. Look at the Roman empire, Ottoman empire, the mongols, British colonies. Nothing is permanent. Not even nations.
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  11. Post #131
    Anony1200's Avatar
    February 2012
    8 Posts
    Taking a pause from my usual lurking just to say this:

    People are comparing the bump to the depression era and other such, but I'll focus on why the "The U.S. got out of the depression so why can't they now" is not very good:

    The Depression didn't end, instead America was kind of abruptly yanked out of it. When World War 2 started picking up, there became increased demand for small arms, artillery and ammo, tanks, etc. in European countries, which led to more heavy industry jobs opening up and of course the average American started holding a job again.

    The same really couldn't be true nowadays. The UN, or some other smaller system of alliance within, would be incredibly quick to stop a war in the case that one of the superpowers did decide to go on a rampage, and on top of that, what wars are fought now are mostly fought with black-market weapons like the remains of extremist insurgents in the middle east, or with locally-provided copies of weapons like in the Yugoslav wars.

    I'm not saying that the U.S. is totally reliant on weapons sales or anything like that, but that was formerly what essentially kept America powerful, and now that every banana republic has their own factories making off-brand AK-47s, it'd be considerably harder to recover as the U.S. normally does.

    Of course, that's one factor in a big jigsaw puzzle, but the point is, the depression argument isn't very good.
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  12. Post #132
    Gold Member
    darkedone02's Avatar
    February 2006
    2,619 Posts
    From our history we suffered a depression, and we have lived though it and it ended when we entered WW2 and the economy rises during the war, we got back up in our feet and reached even higher then the cold war hit and the arms race goes on. If we suffer from another depression, we will live though it, although we just don't know when it going to end until it happens.

    America is in a tough time and people begin to believe we are doomed because of the many issues that we have, but we will solve these issues in a matter of time, all we need to do is get our shit together and end this crisis the best way possible.
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  13. Post #133
    Am I Læffy?
    kazookie's Avatar
    August 2011
    633 Posts
    It's always awkward when this topic comes up.
    I've been chatting with people on steam being worried of that America is fucked, surrounded by "bad guys" and that everyone hates America.
    The huge debt is one problem. And some people in the US barely notice anything wrong happening with their country.

    I'll quote a steam friend about the debt problem with china. "The US got twice the money they own China. If the US gave back the money, it would still be the same case, but the other way"
    Of course, this person might just be another kid rambling about, so we shouldn't use him as a sure example, but it makes me really mad that someone can be that wrong.


    I think the US could do good stuff after some time, but you sure have hit a bump. If your country stops loaning money from other countries, it should be okay some time. I think.
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  14. Post #134
    .Isak.'s Avatar
    April 2009
    1,611 Posts
    America's not in bad shape compared to how it was in the past.

    Socially, we're at a moderate high. Gay rights movements, racism rapidly decreasing, etc etc. We have a hell of a lot less civil injustice than we did in the early 1900s. Corporate abuses today are completely incomparable to ones in Rockefeller's era.

    Otherwise, we're just hitting a bump of anti-intellectualism and political apathy. It might get a bit worse from here, but it's hard to believe that a progressive movement won't stem from it. It's happened in the past, and it will absolutely happen again.

    People exaggerate stuff. We live in an age of fast results and instantaneous communication, and our political system is simply too dated to handle it. America's been in better shape, but it's nowhere near dying.
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  15. Post #135
    I don't think a majority of us have any authority to say we are doomed. I thought we were but in terms of the things we've dealt with, this is nothing. We've survived a civil war and the great depression and we are the longest lasting constitutional democracy in the world.

    But all you kids will start spewing "OUR POLITICS ARE RUINED, NO FIXING IT, WE ARE DOOMED, NOTHING GOING RIGHT"

    Yeah, our economy isn't the best right now but its a whole lot better than other countries. We still have SO many opportunities. So many of the people who will disagree with me though will be arrogant to the facts and think its more fun to think America is doomed because they obviously know politics, I mean, they have been on this earth for ~17 years! PLENTY OF TIME RIGHT? hah...

    I tend to rant in responses in this section than the topic. I just hate the mentality that anybody on the forum, no matter their education or age, can seemingly have just as valid a debate as somebody who studies political science for a living...
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  16. Post #136
    Gold Member
    Sodisna's Avatar
    May 2007
    2,922 Posts
    People just want to place the blame on someone else. No matter who's the President is, they will always take the blame.
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  17. Post #137
    The nation itself doomed to fall? Probably not anytime soon. Our reputation doomed for all eternity? Oh yeah.
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  18. Post #138

    November 2010
    510 Posts
    Just a question. Will the United States of America still exist in 200 years time? Will this nation still be standing and supporting the world by the year 2200?

    Ok how about 500 years from now. In 2512 assuming we didn't nuke ourselves, will America be standing?

    If you think Nations are permanent, you are wrong. Look at the Roman empire, Ottoman empire, the mongols, British colonies. Nothing is permanent. Not even nations.
    Every nation that fell before didn't have the advantage of modern governing techniques and the big one, you know, technology...

    You seriously just can't compare old "great" civilizations to the modern world to such a point where you can say "Well, all these civilizations broke up due to X factors, looks like we're screwed"
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  19. Post #139

    February 2012
    12 Posts
    Every nation that fell before didn't have the advantage of modern governing techniques and the big one, you know, technology...

    You seriously just can't compare old "great" civilizations to the modern world to such a point where you can say "Well, all these civilizations broke up due to X factors, looks like we're screwed"
    Yes, but it works both ways. Those parameters you mentioned dont guarantee ultimate safety from collapse. Human greed and laziness still exists.
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  20. Post #140

    June 2009
    1,792 Posts
    Yes, but it works both ways. Those parameters you mentioned dont guarantee ultimate safety from collapse. Human greed and laziness still exists.
    But so do Ingenuity and Creativity, two things that built the Hoover Dam, the Great Wall of China, Mount Rushmore, and many, many, many, many other things.

    also, Humanity, as a collective whole, has always had misconceptions about the future.
    For starters, in the 50s, everyone thought that we'd have flying cars capable of space travel, and laser guns and robot servants (well, actually this one we do kind of have...) by 2000.
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  21. Post #141
    Gold Member
    Ericson666's Avatar
    May 2011
    3,445 Posts
    Just a question. Will the United States of America still exist in 200 years time? Will this nation still be standing and supporting the world by the year 2200?

    Ok how about 500 years from now. In 2512 assuming we didn't nuke ourselves, will America be standing?

    If you think Nations are permanent, you are wrong. Look at the Roman empire, Ottoman empire, the mongols, British colonies. Nothing is permanent. Not even nations.
    Agreed. We actually had an assignment in my Early World History class in which we compared the Roman Empire to present day America. It's actually somewhat creepy when you realize how similar they are.
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  22. Post #142
    Can i have a tital Dav0r?
    Dylan_94's Avatar
    August 2005
    1,893 Posts
    I feel doomed
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  23. Post #143
    Agreed. We actually had an assignment in my Early World History class in which we compared the Roman Empire to present day America. It's actually somewhat creepy when you realize how similar they are.
    Its also creepy how similar their governments are...
    OH WAIT, thats because they both have somewhat similar ideas of democracy, imperialist (America at one point) and world powers during different times. Of course they are going to deal with similar problems in a different context.

    Its like astrology. Its stupid but there are some similarities between what the horoscope says and what is actually true, kind of a bad analogy but thats the only thing I can think of. We associate things together based on a few similarities. Thats some kind of rhetorical fallacy but the name escapes me.
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  24. Post #144
    Dennab
    October 2008
    1,044 Posts
    It doesn't help when you xenophobic Bits and Europeans start mindlessly calling Americans fat/stupid, they even do it daily here in Estonia. Even though it's true to a percentage, it's not right
    Agreed. There's a lot of stereotypes against Americans, and it's baseless generalizing. There's several different ethnic groups in the US. It's very evolved ethnically and has great potential. A corrupt party system is the only thing that has held us back. And poor education, newer generations have higher learning capacities and require more challenge.
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  25. Post #145
    Dennab
    February 2011
    1,499 Posts
    America isn't doomed, nor has it experienced a 'bump' in its progress.

    It's just that the rest of the world is catching up.
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  26. Post #146
    Atlascore's Avatar
    June 2011
    8,700 Posts
    America isn't doomed, nor has it experienced a 'bump' in its progress.

    It's just that the rest of the world is catching up.
    I can't even begin to comprehend the insane levels of ignorance in this post.

    The rest of the world had catching up to do, way back in 1945.

    It's 2012 now and we're behind in pretty much everything, public transportation, health care, roads, and laws, especially those regarding human rights and corporations, we are so far behind Europe it's ridiculous.
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  27. Post #147
    Governor Goblin's Avatar
    December 2011
    2,782 Posts
    It doesn't help when you xenophobic Bits and Europeans start mindlessly calling Americans fat/stupid, they even do it daily here in Estonia. Even though it's true to a percentage, it's not right
    I like how you did that. "EVEN THOUGH IT'S TRUE, it doesn't help."
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  28. Post #148

    November 2010
    510 Posts
    I can't even begin to comprehend the insane levels of ignorance in this post.

    The rest of the world had catching up to do, way back in 1945.

    It's 2012 now and we're behind in pretty much everything, public transportation, health care, roads, and laws, especially those regarding human rights and corporations, we are so far behind Europe it's ridiculous.
    Holy subjective post batman! How exactly are we "behind" in laws? And how is it fair to compare public transportation and infrastructure quality when there are so many different factors that go into each (For example, population density is a big factor along with World War 2). You're actually more ignorant than the person you quoted.
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  29. Post #149
    Atlascore's Avatar
    June 2011
    8,700 Posts
    Holy subjective post batman! How exactly are we "behind" in laws? And how is it fair to compare public transportation and infrastructure quality when there are so many different factors that go into each (For example, population density is a big factor along with World War 2). You're actually more ignorant than the person you quoted.
    I love how you're calling me the ignorant one when you're bringing up WW2 and have no understanding of European laws.

    For one, a lot of European countries haven't outright banned gay marriage (it's even legal in quite a few western Euro countries), and they stopped discriminatory laws against race and gender decades before people were even thinking of doing the same in America.

    Corporations in Europe are a lot more regulated than in America, if a big corporation in Europe even tried to do half the shit that goes by regularly in America they'd face huge protests and government interference.

    About population density and WW2, are you serious man? Just take a damn look at Japan, it was completely leveled during WW2 and today it's one of the most advanced nations on the planet, especially when it comes to public transportation, same story with France and Germany.

    London and Tokyo are both heavily populated and they're easier to traverse than say New York.

    If you want proof we've fallen far behind just look at cities like Detroit and states like Alabama, every country has it's bad areas but America takes it to a whole new level.
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  30. Post #150
    Gold Member
    Xenocidebot's Avatar
    April 2006
    5,058 Posts
    Holy subjective post batman! How exactly are we "behind" in laws?
    Off the top of my head, sexuality based equality, as he mentioned, laws pertaining to corporations, there's the fact that basic financial regulatory law is a loophole ridden piece of shit, and current tax law is pathetic.
    And how is it fair to compare public transportation and infrastructure quality when there are so many different factors that go into each (For example, population density is a big factor along with World War 2).
    Uh, we were behind in our public transportation well before WWII, and, again, off the top of my head, there are longstanding unaddressed flaws in things that are not affected by population whatsoever, such as energy efficiency standards for buildings, which are simply unscientific and useless.
    You're actually more ignorant than the person you quoted.
    Nah, I'm pretty sure he's just being vague, and you're just fishing for an easy zing while failing miserably.
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  31. Post #151
    Atlascore's Avatar
    June 2011
    8,700 Posts
    Off the top of my head, sexuality based equality, as he mentioned, laws pertaining to corporations, there's the fact that basic financial regulatory law is a loophole ridden piece of shit, and current tax law is pathetic.
    Thanks for reminding me, that's another area we're miserably far behind, even countries like Malaysia and India have far more Women in the government and other areas than us.

    As the saying goes (a painfully true one), it's a free country, as long as you're a white straight christian male.
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  32. Post #152

    November 2010
    510 Posts
    Off the top of my head, sexuality based equality, as he mentioned, laws pertaining to corporations, there's the fact that basic financial regulatory law is a loophole ridden piece of shit, and current tax law is pathetic.

    Uh, we were behind in our public transportation well before WWII, and, again, off the top of my head, there are longstanding unaddressed flaws in things that are not affected by population whatsoever, such as energy efficiency standards for buildings, which are simply unscientific and useless.

    Nah, I'm pretty sure he's just being vague, and you're just fishing for an easy zing while failing miserably.
    You and him both failed at understanding, so let me help you. With regards to public transport, the United States has a far more spread out population over a much wider area, thus making the cost of effective public transportation far higher than in Europe. Infrastructure in America services well over 300 million people as well, which means it's far superior in simple size and scope than anything any European countries have to deal with. This makes completely revamping it a several trillion dollar investment. We also didn't have the luxury of our entire infrastructure being bombed to oblivion forcing us to rebuild it to a more modern standard. It's not even close to a fair apples to apples comparison. It has nothing to do with Europe (Or Japan) being superior in this aspect.

    I'm not even going to touch the laws aspect because that's not a field of interest for me, so don't try to use it to "prove my ignorance".
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  33. Post #153
    Bitch Plzzz!
    Dennab
    September 2011
    834 Posts
    Compared to the rest of the world, I think we're doing just fine.

    Nothing can last forever. Everything and everyone is inevitably doomed to fade into history and time. The question is not if but when. I am sure we'll be around for the next hundred years or so.
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  34. Post #154
    Atlascore's Avatar
    June 2011
    8,700 Posts
    You and him both failed at understanding, so let me help you. With regards to public transport, the United States has a far more spread out population over a much wider area, thus making the cost of effective public transportation far higher than in Europe. Infrastructure in America services well over 300 million people as well, which means it's far superior in simple size and scope than anything any European countries have to deal with. This makes completely revamping it a several trillion dollar investment. We also didn't have the luxury of our entire infrastructure being bombed to oblivion forcing us to rebuild it to a more modern standard. It's not even close to a fair apples to apples comparison. It has nothing to do with Europe (Or Japan) being superior in this aspect.
    Several trillion dollar investment? You're out of your mind, it's not even close, we can easily afford to fix up our infrastructure, especially around populated areas where it's the absolute worst, also over half the stuff modern European and Japanese infrastructure uses wasn't even a concept back when they were bombed, a lot of that stuff wasn't made until the 70's/80's, especially the trains.


    I'm not even going to touch the laws aspect because that's not a field of interest for me, so don't try to use it to "prove my ignorance".
    Wooooooow, are you for real? So you're going to ask how we're behind, than when someone proves you wrong you try to claim our arguments are invalid because of your lack of interest? Congratulations you win the award for worst debater.
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  35. Post #155

    November 2010
    510 Posts
    Several trillion dollar investment? You're out of your mind, it's not even close, we can easily afford to fix up our infrastructure, especially around populated areas where it's the absolute worst, also over half the stuff modern European and Japanese infrastructure uses wasn't even a concept back when they were bombed, a lot of that stuff wasn't made until the 70's/80's, especially the trains.


    Wooooooow, are you for real? So you're going to ask how we're behind, than when someone proves you wrong you try to claim our arguments are invalid because of your lack of interest? Congratulations you win the award for worst debater.
    Your comprehension skills are really poor. First of all, you're wrong about the infrastructure being a cheap fix. You should do some research. Second, I wasn't proven wrong about anything. I merely asked how you thought we were "behind" in laws, and you gave some plausible points. So is that part of the discussion not concluded? I'm not going to try to debate something I know barely anything about. You shouldn't try either.
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  36. Post #156
    Gold Member
    Xenocidebot's Avatar
    April 2006
    5,058 Posts
    You and him both failed at understanding, so let me help you. With regards to public transport, the United States has a far more spread out population over a much wider area, thus making the cost of effective public transportation far higher than in Europe.
    I wasn't aware we didn't have cities. I can't even address the rest of this post because it's awful.
    Do you know how public transportation works? No country tries to set up a rail service to every single farm and mountain town.
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  37. Post #157
    Atlascore's Avatar
    June 2011
    8,700 Posts
    Your comprehension skills are really poor. First of all, you're wrong about the infrastructure being a cheap fix. You should do some research. Second, I wasn't proven wrong about anything. I merely asked how you thought we were "behind" in laws, and you gave some plausible points. So is that part of the discussion not concluded? I'm not going to try to debate something I know barely anything about. You shouldn't try either.
    I didn't say it was going to be a cheap fix, you're the one with comprehension problems.

    Also, no, it is not going to cost several trillion dollars, it was obvious the second you said that you have no idea what you're talking about.

    The materials used to construct railways and roads is incredibly cheap and widely available, the people that would be building these things wouldn't be paid 100,000 a year salary's, and the only even remotely costly thing would be how long it would take, it wouldn't even come up to five hundred billion dollars.
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  38. Post #158
    Flash's Avatar
    July 2008
    491 Posts
    It's because we're 'MERICA and we do things our way, and if you dont like it you can just GEEET Out and go to the socialist shithole that is Europe. [/joke]

    I don't really see anything wrong with america at the moment in my current scope of living.
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  39. Post #159
    President of the Westboro Baptist Church Fan Club
    Dennab
    February 2012
    2,084 Posts
    The economy is good and unemployment is decreasing. I don't see the problem.
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  40. Post #160
    Marbalo's Avatar
    June 2011
    2,310 Posts
    The economy is good and unemployment is decreasing. I don't see the problem.
    Totally, because CNN reported that the economy is up by 2% and everything is A-OK!
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