1. Post #201
    HUGE RACIST
    TH89's Avatar
    January 2005
    16,350 Posts
    There will always be a bias between men and women, nothing is going to change that.
    Dear Everyone,

    Stop talking about and/or trying to fix this social inequality that I benefit from. It's just How Things Are and you can't do anything about it.

    Regards,
    Member of Majority Group
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  2. Post #202
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    Dennab
    February 2006
    22,239 Posts
    Slut - MRAs would like you to believe that "slut" is not a misogynistic word. But when was the last time you heard it applied to a man? In fact, when was the last time you heard a man being shamed for having lots of sex?
    I actually called a man a slut today, thank you very much.

    Edited:

    Dear Everyone,

    Stop talking about and/or trying to fix this social inequality that I benefit from. It's just How Things Are and you can't do anything about it.

    Regards,
    Member of Majority Group
    Men are a minority group though.

    Women are about 51%.
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  3. Post #203
    I'M A SHAAARK!
    Lambeth's Avatar
    October 2009
    14,832 Posts
    There will always be a bias between men and women, nothing is going to change that.
    my what a can do attitude you have there
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  4. Post #204
    Gold Member
    Vasili's Avatar
    December 2007
    10,878 Posts
    Men are a minority group though.

    Women are about 51%.
    Well 1% more is really not that big of a deal

  5. Post #205
    I'M A SHAAARK!
    Lambeth's Avatar
    October 2009
    14,832 Posts
    Men are a minority group though.

    Women are about 51%.
    men occupy most places of power though.
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  6. Post #206
    HUGE RACIST
    TH89's Avatar
    January 2005
    16,350 Posts
    Men are a minority group though.

    Women are about 51%.
    "Majority" and "minority" in the context of social criticism refer to distribution of power, not literally how many people there are.
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  7. Post #207
    Gold Member
    Winters's Avatar
    August 2010
    4,901 Posts
    Funny how I used to have the exact same beliefs as these MRA guys... When I was about ten.

    Edited:

    Luckly I started reading articles and books on the matter to help form my own opinions instead of just watching videos of TAA and other assholes on youtube all the time.
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  8. Post #208
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    Dennab
    February 2006
    22,239 Posts
    "Majority" and "minority" in the context of social criticism refer to distribution of power, not literally how many people there are.
    In what sense do men hold a skewed distribution of power? Women have equal right to vote, assemble, and protest. They have equal right to run for office. They have equal right to become a CEO as well. Men holding more positions of power doesn't mean that those men in power aren't accountable to women.

    There are societal flaws, mostly where women themselves are conditioned(mostly by themselves) to be subservient, and not pursue positions of power. But that just means women have to come into their own and begin getting more involved(which they are), not that men are somehow persecuting or holding women down.
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  9. Post #209
    HUGE RACIST
    TH89's Avatar
    January 2005
    16,350 Posts
    In what sense do men hold a skewed distribution of power? Women have equal right to vote, assemble, and protest. They have equal right to run for office. They have equal right to become a CEO as well. Men holding more positions of power doesn't mean that those men in power aren't accountable to women.

    There are societal flaws, mostly where women themselves are conditioned(mostly by themselves) to be subservient, and not pursue positions of power. But that just means women have to come into their own and begin getting more involved(which they are), not that men are somehow persecuting or holding women down.
    Yeah, good point. It's all women's fault. If they would just stop getting conditioned by our gender-stratified society everything would be fine.
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  10. Post #210
    Gold Member
    Zeke129's Avatar
    July 2007
    41,851 Posts
    There are societal flaws, mostly where women themselves are conditioned(mostly by themselves) to be subservient, and not pursue positions of power. But that just means women have to come into their own and begin getting more involved(which they are), not that men are somehow persecuting or holding women down.
    I'm curious about your reasoning behind the bolded bit

  11. Post #211
    Gold Member
    Jack_Thompson's Avatar
    August 2009
    15,950 Posts
    I think he's mistaken the following of patriarchal traditions for conscious decision-making
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  12. Post #212
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    Dennab
    February 2006
    22,239 Posts
    Yeah, good point. It's all women's fault. If they would just stop getting conditioned by our gender-stratified society everything would be fine.
    Yea and it's totally men's fault for letting women choose their own role in society versus forcing them to follow our standard of "equality".
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  13. Post #213
    Bleach Qeef's Avatar
    June 2007
    1,676 Posts
    The shit about the hormones is true though.


    In a lot of cases, men in their 80's 100 years ago, have the same test levels as 20 year olds do today.

    That shits fucked up.

  14. Post #214
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    Dennab
    February 2006
    22,239 Posts
    I'm curious about your reasoning behind the bolded bit
    Children generally learn more from their father about how a man is supposed to act, and from their mother about how women are supposed to act.

    A mother following the stereotypes of a subservient wife is conditioning her daughter to follow that path.

    There is also the fact that women tend to be harder on each other about promiscuity. A girl generally doesn't want to be perceived as a slut to a man, but it is far worse for her to be perceived as a slut by her girlfriends.

    It's a self perpetuating cycle that isn't broken by men being more open minded, but women slowly realizing that their old societal constructs are bullshit and not following it anymore.

    Edited:

    That's why I support the idea of "women's liberation", but I'm not really that supportive of viewing that men are the cause of the problem.
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  15. Post #215
    geoface's Avatar
    April 2010
    2,366 Posts
    feminism is a lot like Islam.
    Probably the funniest thing I've seen all day
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  16. Post #216
    Gold Member
    Zeke129's Avatar
    July 2007
    41,851 Posts
    Children generally learn more from their father about how a man is supposed to act, and from their mother about how women are supposed to act.

    A mother following the stereotypes of a subservient wife is conditioning her daughter to follow that path.

    There is also the fact that women tend to be harder on each other about promiscuity. A girl generally doesn't want to be perceived as a slut to a man, but it is far worse for her to be perceived as a slut by her girlfriends.

    It's a self perpetuating cycle that isn't broken by men being more open minded, but women slowly realizing that their old societal constructs are bullshit and not following it anymore.

    Edited:

    That's why I support the idea of "women's liberation", but I'm not really that supportive of viewing that men are the cause of the problem.
    Where do you think the stereotype of a subservient wife that started your cycle here came from? And why do you think it continues to exist? It's not because women want to be our servants, I'd bet money on that.
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  17. Post #217
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    Dennab
    February 2006
    22,239 Posts
    Where do you think the stereotype of a subservient wife that started your cycle here came from?
    I don't know. It could come from anywhere and the origin isn't really important in a practical sense because the origin is thousands of years old.

    Edited:

    Hell, the origin could be millions of years old, starting with pre-sapien hominids.

  18. Post #218
    HUGE RACIST
    TH89's Avatar
    January 2005
    16,350 Posts
    Yea and it's totally men's fault for letting women choose their own role in society versus forcing them to follow our standard of "equality".
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  19. Post #219
    Gold Member
    Zeke129's Avatar
    July 2007
    41,851 Posts
    Don't you get it? We let them choose their own role in society. Ungrateful women aren't even using it!

    Use it or we'll take it back.
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  20. Post #220
    Gold Member
    Lazor's Avatar
    July 2007
    9,254 Posts
    yawwmen also believes that a man should be able to veto an abortion
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  21. Post #221
    HUGE RACIST
    TH89's Avatar
    January 2005
    16,350 Posts
    Oh dear.
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  22. Post #222
    Gold Member
    Zeke129's Avatar
    July 2007
    41,851 Posts
    I don't know. It could come from anywhere and the origin isn't really important in a practical sense because the origin is thousands of years old.

    Edited:

    Hell, the origin could be millions of years old, starting with pre-sapien hominids.
    So are you saying that you've never seen the stereotype continue to be perpetuated by men today?

    Edited:

    yawwmen also believes that a man should be able to veto an abortion
    oh okay I'm done with this bit then
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  23. Post #223

    December 2011
    260 Posts
    I think this is a really good thread

    All of the social stigma with emasculinity is pretty silly too and I'm like 90% sure it ties into women being looked down on as inferior..

    Edited:

    The shit about the hormones is true though.


    In a lot of cases, men in their 80's 100 years ago, have the same test levels as 20 year olds do today.

    That shits fucked up.
    Other than medical/wellbeing problems, why is it fucked up? Also do you have a source
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  24. Post #224
    Gold Member
    Vasili's Avatar
    December 2007
    10,878 Posts
    There was a study by Simon Baron-Cohen, a Cambridge Univ. professor of psychology and psychiatry, claims that the female brain is predominantly hard-wired for empathy, while the male brain is mainly; for the most part hard-wired for understanding and building systems. There was also a study that discovered its possible that males and females don't have a 'fixed' brain and take traits from each sex, hence the term 'tomboy' females or 'flamboyant' for men.

  25. Post #225

    December 2011
    260 Posts
    There was a study by Simon Baron-Cohen, a Cambridge Univ. professor of psychology and psychiatry, claims that the female brain is predominantly hard-wired for empathy, while the male brain is mainly; for the most part hard-wired for understanding and building systems. There was also a study that discovered its possible that males and females don't have a 'fixed' brain and take traits from each sex, hence the term 'tomboy' females or 'flamboyant' for men.
    This sound suspiciously like an appeal to authority and I'm betting it would crumble under any scrutiny

    Do you have a link to the study in question?
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  26. Post #226
    Gold Member
    Zeke129's Avatar
    July 2007
    41,851 Posts
    oh dearie me lazor was right



    and apparently I posted extensively in that thread without remembering
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  27. Post #227
    Gold Member
    sgman91's Avatar
    July 2006
    4,166 Posts
    More men graduate from college > Sexism

    More women graduate from college > no problem

    I don't think I've ever heard a feminist bring up the fact that women have higher graduation and admission rates than men and that the disparity is only growing larger. I've seen quite a few arguments that the higher verbal and written requirements (which women are usually stronger in) in the lower grades have actually been the problem.

    Just for clarity, I personally have no problem at all with one sex having higher graduation rates than another if the difference can be explained by the caliber of the actual applicants.
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  28. Post #228
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    Dennab
    February 2006
    22,239 Posts
    So are you saying that you've never seen the stereotype continue to be perpetuated by men today?
    Not personally by a man under the age of 60. I'm sure it happens, but I think it is downright chauvanistic and a bit condescending for a man to say that women should follow any standard. Women should break free of their conditioning on their own. They don't need my help, they don't need any man's help. They are powerful enough to demand their share on their own in their own time, which is exactly what is happening.

    Like I said, women's rights are about women willfully choosing their own role in society, damning whatever some men think it should be, no matter how conservative or liberal they think they are. My own personal goal is not to impose onto a woman what I believe her role or rights are, and not to vote for someone who does, and that's literally all I can do.

  29. Post #229
    Gold Member
    Zeke129's Avatar
    July 2007
    41,851 Posts
    More men graduate from college > Sexism

    More women graduate from college > no problem

    I don't think I've ever heard a feminist bring up the fact that women have higher graduation and admission rates than men and that the disparity is only growing larger. I've seen quite a few arguments that the higher verbal and written requirements (which women are usually stronger in) in the lower grades have actually been the problem.

    Just for clarity, I personally have no problem at all with one sex having higher graduation rates than another if the difference can be explained by the caliber of the actual applicants.
    [release] In 2006, 10.3% of males and 8.3% of females dropped out of high school. In 2005/2006, women earned 62% of Associate's degrees, 58% of Bachelor's degrees, 60.0% of Master's degrees, and 48.9% of Doctorates.[/release]

    More men dropping out of high school may have something to do with it but this isn't by any means an analysis
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  30. Post #230
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    Dennab
    February 2006
    22,239 Posts
    oh dearie me lazor was right



    and apparently I posted extensively in that thread without remembering
    Is this what the argument is about? We can have a nice long heartfelt discussion about abortion another time, but now isn't the time.
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  31. Post #231
    Gold Member
    Zeke129's Avatar
    July 2007
    41,851 Posts
    Not personally by a man under the age of 60. I'm sure it happens, but I think it is downright chauvanistic and a bit condescending for a man to say that women should follow any standard. Women should break free of their conditioning on their own. They don't need my help, they don't need any man's help. They are powerful enough to demand their share on their own in their own time, which is exactly what is happening.

    Like I said, women's rights are about women willfully choosing their own role in society, damning whatever some men think it should be, no matter how conservative or liberal they think they are. My own personal goal is not to impose onto a woman what I believe her role or rights are, and not to vote for someone who does, and that's literally all I can do.
    So, genderblindness then.

    Super
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  32. Post #232
    Gold Member
    Vasili's Avatar
    December 2007
    10,878 Posts
    This sound suspiciously like an appeal to authority and I'm betting it would crumble under any scrutiny

    Do you have a link to the study in question?
    I think it was called the 'Empathizing Systemizing Theory'

    Ah here we go:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathi...emizing_theory

    I don't necessarily believe it I will have to point out, before I get jumped on, merely find the whole theory on gender roles and difference between sex quite interesting.

    actually uh I dont think this was the right one, his work is difficult to find online.

  33. Post #233
    Gold Member
    Zeke129's Avatar
    July 2007
    41,851 Posts
    Is this what the argument is about? We can have a nice long heartfelt discussion about abortion another time, but now isn't the time.
    Well there's no sense trying to argue misogyny out of someone who believes women only have 49% sovereignty over their own body
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  34. Post #234
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    Dennab
    February 2006
    22,239 Posts
    So, genderblindness then.

    Super
    Any other way is inherently sexist.
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  35. Post #235

    December 2011
    260 Posts
    Women should break free of their conditioning on their own. They don't need my help, they don't need any man's help. They are powerful enough to demand their share on their own in their own time, which is exactly what is happening.
    Obviously not since misogyny and sexism are still rampant...
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  36. Post #236
    Gold Member
    Zeke129's Avatar
    July 2007
    41,851 Posts
    Any other way is inherently sexist.
    Colourblindness is racist, so genderblindness is sexist.

    *blindness is only acceptable when there is no inequality
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  37. Post #237
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    Dennab
    February 2006
    22,239 Posts
    Obviously not since misogyny and sexism are still rampant...
    And now here's a real misogynist.

    Edited:

    Colourblindness is racist, so genderblindness is sexist.

    *blindness is only acceptable when there is no inequality
    Implying that you as a man are more powerful than a female and that they somehow need help liberating themselves from you is sexist.
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  38. Post #238
    Gold Member
    Zeke129's Avatar
    July 2007
    41,851 Posts
    Implying that you as a man are more powerful than a female and that they somehow need help liberating themselves from you is sexist.
    Acknowledging that men hold more power in society is only sexist if I'm willing to turn a blind eye to it, as you are doing
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  39. Post #239

    December 2011
    260 Posts
    And now here's a real misogynist.

    Edited:



    Implying that you as a man are more powerful than a female and that they somehow need help liberating themselves from you is sexist.
    That's not what either of us implied
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  40. Post #240
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    Dennab
    February 2006
    22,239 Posts
    Acknowledging that men hold more power in society is only sexist if I'm willing to turn a blind eye to it, as you are doing
    I certainly don't. I hold about as much power in society as any female, in fact less than most females I've met.

    Edited:

    That's not what either of us implied
    Whether you willfully implied it or not, that is the implication and that is as much a product of your own conditioning that you are superior to women as a man who tells his wife her rightful place is in the kitchen.

    You are saying what standards women should hold up to. Women can take care of themselves, they have a majority and they can move forward on their own just as they have been doing.

    Edited:

    There is nothing inherently less powerful than a female as far as her ability to gain power in society. There are social problems but those are problems women need to fix, not men.
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