1. Post #921
    Gold Member
    Marphy Black's Avatar
    December 2004
    1,016 Posts
    HEV suit looks like a high resolution hl1 model
    Quality of it notwithstanding, that model doesn't particularly resemble the original HEV suit model, nor does it resemble Valve's official artwork depicting the suit.



    The BMS model uses colors that are either far too dark or just flat out wrong, altered some details (the metallic stomach and elbow joints changed to corrugated pipe, missing clasps on shins), and the pelvis part of the suit was changed into a speedo-like thing, apparently to accentuate Gordon's man parts for some reason.
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  2. Post #922
    Gold Member
    Mr. Someguy's Avatar
    March 2006
    23,892 Posts
    I think they just made it look more mobile.
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  3. Post #923
    Gold Member
    Tuskin's Avatar
    January 2005
    17,558 Posts
    yeah their design makes more sense
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  4. Post #924
    Gold Member
    Chrille's Avatar
    August 2005
    5,408 Posts
    Looks like a blend of the HL1 suit and HL2 suit:

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  5. Post #925
    Mattey's Avatar
    August 2010
    457 Posts
    I would just say that BMS' HEV suit design makes more sense than the original. Looks quite realistic.


    -ninja'd-
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  6. Post #926
    Gold Member
    Chrille's Avatar
    August 2005
    5,408 Posts
    and the HD pack one

    Edited:

    breakin ma merge
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  7. Post #927
    Gold Member
    Tuskin's Avatar
    January 2005
    17,558 Posts
    I prefer the BMS design over the original valve one.

    I mean how the heck is he suppose to bend his torso/waist in the Valve one?

    Actually it looks like a cross between the HL2 model and the PS2 model now that I look at it.

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  8. Post #928

    April 2011
    224 Posts
    http://forums.blackmesasource.com/sh...ostcount=17879

    Raminator's Answer :
    -Sentry : the HL2 model is the best, other models were FUBAR.
    -M.Tannock : he's a liar (O_o).
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  9. Post #929
    Gold Member
    The freeman's Avatar
    October 2007
    6,436 Posts
    Correct me if I am wrong but don't you see the HEV suit only one time at the start of the game?
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  10. Post #930
    Gold Member
    nightlord's Avatar
    May 2009
    7,267 Posts
    I don't like the sentry.


    Seems like they just keep making stupid choices. It's not just a HL remake anymore like it was supposed to be - it's as if they feel the need to correct the 'mistakes' of Half-life.
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  11. Post #931
    Gold Member
    Marphy Black's Avatar
    December 2004
    1,016 Posts
    Correct me if I am wrong but don't you see the HEV suit only one time at the start of the game?
    You find many dead HEV suit guys from previous survey teams in Xen.
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  12. Post #932
    Gold Member
    Juniez's Avatar
    May 2007
    6,689 Posts
    Seems like they just keep making stupid choices. It's not just a HL remake anymore like it was supposed to be - it's as if they feel the need to correct the 'mistakes' of Half-life.
    I don't think it was ever supposed to be a direct remake
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  13. Post #933
    Gold Member
    The freeman's Avatar
    October 2007
    6,436 Posts
    Also, by the way, the color of the HEV suit will look different in the game and out of the render.
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  14. Post #934
    Gold Member
    lintz's Avatar
    May 2006
    6,429 Posts
    I don't think it was ever supposed to be a direct remake
    Could have sworn the entire reason this started up was to remake HL in source better than Valve did.
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  15. Post #935
    Antimuffin's Avatar
    June 2011
    2,871 Posts
    I don't think it was ever supposed to be a direct remake
    Correct. It wasn't supposed to be a 1:1 remake. It is their way to recreate Half Life 1. They also said, they try to make it like Valve would've done, if they had the technologies of today.
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  16. Post #936
    Gold Member
    nightlord's Avatar
    May 2009
    7,267 Posts
    I don't think it was ever supposed to be a direct remake
    It was meant to be a re-creation (Not a re-imagining) of Half-life using the latest Source engine, but after all the changes they have made, it is not. Updating things graphically i can understand, but completely changing things from the original so that they are just loosly based on it is wrong.
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  17. Post #937
    Gold Member
    Chrille's Avatar
    August 2005
    5,408 Posts
    It was meant to be a re-creation of Half-life using the latest Source engine, but after all the changes they have made, it is not. Updating things graphically i can understand, but completely changing it from the original so that it is just loosly based on it is wrong.
    It's not a complete change, and it's not 'loosely based' on the original. The changes are minimal. Now it's a freaking turret model (that has its legs differently) people are bitching over for Christs sake.

    Recreation and improving does not equal being the same as the original in all aspects except graphics. They have said they were going to create what they think Valve would have made Half-Life like if it was done now.

    And saying that what they are doing with their own creation is wrong makes you come off as being self-entitled.

    Edited:

    And yes, they are all about correcting the mistakes of Half-Life, which is why Xen look radically different, and that's about the only major change.
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  18. Post #938
    Gold Member
    nightlord's Avatar
    May 2009
    7,267 Posts
    It's not a complete change, and it's not 'loosely based' on the original. The changes are minimal. Now it's a freaking turret model (that has its legs differently) people are bitching over for Christs sake.

    Recreation and improving does not equal being the same as the original in all aspects except graphics. They have said they were going to create what they think Valve would have made Half-Life like if it was done now.

    And saying that what they are doing with their own creation is wrong makes you come off as being self-entitled.

    Edited:

    And yes, they are all about correcting the mistakes of Half-Life, which is why Xen look radically different, and that's about the only major change.
    Some people feel there are no 'mistakes' with Half-life, so nothing needs changing. The HEV suit has plenty of changes and doesn't really look like the Half-life version, and On-a-Rail and other thing have been changed quite a bit. The turret is not just a leg difference. It is now pretty much the same as the Half-life 2 version.

    Not of it needed changing - what's in the game, is what makes it Half-life. When you first played Half-life, did you think "Hey this turret needs changing, and so does this HEV suit"? They are just making pointless changes. They are changing things from the 'canon' aswell, not that it's a huge issue though.

    I quickly marked some of the changes for you:

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  19. Post #939
    Gold Member
    Lexic's Avatar
    March 2009
    6,118 Posts
    If you want half life in source, go play half life source. I'm sure someone's made some kind of high resolution pack for it.
    You might as well be complaining that the BBC's Sherlock Holmes changed Holmes' pipe into nicotine patches. Every retelling adds new shit, that's what makes them worth listening to.
    Also, there are plenty of things "wrong" with Half Life as a modern game, not least of which being that most of the level designs are completely unrealistic and only there to provide unique obstacles to navigate over.
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  20. Post #940

    April 2011
    224 Posts
    Xen has always been the "weak point" of Half-Life. It was basically just a platform party in an alien ambiance, but overall you do virtually nothing besides jumping over endless voids, fighting a four-legged testicle, avoiding violet lanterns.
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  21. Post #941
    Gold Member
    The freeman's Avatar
    October 2007
    6,436 Posts
    I love that there is no possible way to bend forward or backwards in the two HL1 suits and the arms would lock up if they bent back too far because there is a giant piece of metal there.
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  22. Post #942
    RAIN BOW DASH IS TEH BEST PONY! SWAG!
    Starscre4M's Avatar
    November 2010
    1,554 Posts
    I liked the changes they made in HEV Suit
    but the turret is really ugly now :/
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  23. Post #943
    TheJoey's Avatar
    June 2010
    4,345 Posts
    http://forums.blackmesasource.com/sh...ostcount=17879

    Raminator's Answer :
    -Sentry : the HL2 model is the best, other models were FUBAR.
    -M.Tannock : he's a liar (O_o).
    jesus fucking christ this mod team is a mess

    no communication whatsoever.
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  24. Post #944
    Gold Member
    Mr. Someguy's Avatar
    March 2006
    23,892 Posts
    Xen has always been the "weak point" of Half-Life. It was basically just a platform party in an alien ambiance, but overall you do virtually nothing besides jumping over endless voids, fighting a four-legged testicle, avoiding violet lanterns.
    Blue Shift did Xen spectacularly.
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  25. Post #945
    Gold Member
    Chrille's Avatar
    August 2005
    5,408 Posts
    Some people feel there are no 'mistakes' with Half-life, so nothing needs changing. The HEV suit has plenty of changes and doesn't really look like the Half-life version, and On-a-Rail and other thing have been changed quite a bit. The turret is not just a leg difference. It is now pretty much the same as the Half-life 2 version.

    Not of it needed changing - what's in the game, is what makes it Half-life. When you first played Half-life, did you think "Hey this turret needs changing, and so does this HEV suit"? They are just making pointless changes. They are changing things from the 'canon' aswell, not that it's a huge issue though.
    Then those people should play Half-Life, and not Black Mesa. The original Half-Life is my favorite game, but Black Mesa isn't that game, and was never supposed to be. It is a remake of what its developers think are improvements upon the original, both graphically and gameplay-wise, in the context of it being released to the contemporary market while still being faithful to the original.

    Being faithful in this regard means having all the weapons, enemies, locations and story of the real game, but removing (or alternatively, adding things such as security guard zombies) parts they felt removed immersion or detract from the gameplay experience. Cutting unnecessarily long stretches of tram-riding (one of the most criticized parts of Half-Life apart from Xen) or vent-crawling is doing just that, so is or slightly altering the looks of turrets (they even explained why) or Xen. If you feel this is insulting to the original then you will probably have a problem with the mod when it is released.

    The HEV suit still largely looks like the one from Half-Life, saying otherwise would be lying. It's orange with roughly the same look as the other interpretations; metallic parts and buttons and a lambda logo, with some changes to resemble the HL2 suit and to make it more realistic. I don't really see the big problem apart from the ugly textures.

    The previous turret model had a tendency to fall over (the one in Half-Life was not physics-based and did not have this problem), so they gave it the same stance as the one from Half-Life 2 to address that issue.

    I can't fathom at all why you think they changed the canon, unless you count Gordon shooting down a helicopter in a specific place an important part of the overall storyline, or bashing a headcrab at a certain point in a ventilation shaft. Feel free to explain why you feel this.

    They have done a tremendous amount work, sacrificing free time and investing large amounts of money in the project, with all their changes and decisions being carefully planned and heavily playtested, and I feel they get just about a little too much shit from ungrateful people who will never in their life work on anything of the same magnitude, doesn't know how to make a proper game, or have a fraction of the insight the developers have in why these changes happen.
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  26. Post #946
    Gold Member
    The freeman's Avatar
    October 2007
    6,436 Posts
    Why are people acting like the Black Mesa team is just Valve and everything needs to be perfect to be good
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  27. Post #947
    Gold Member
    megafat's Avatar
    January 2005
    6,272 Posts
    Why are people acting like the Black Mesa team is just Valve and everything needs to be perfect to be good
    Because the Black Mesa team is pretending to be Valve and is trying to be perfect.
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  28. Post #948
    Gold Member
    The freeman's Avatar
    October 2007
    6,436 Posts
    Because the Black Mesa team is pretending to be Valve and is trying to be perfect.
    Black Mesa can't be perfect with the fact that the hype will ruin the game for many people
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  29. Post #949

    April 2011
    224 Posts
    Blue Shift did Xen spectacularly.
    You're right, but, even if I consider HL1 as one of the greatest games ever made, Xen in the original game, not counting the add-ons, was really a weak point. And if Black Mesa Team managed to change that, I'd be happy to see it.

    PC Gamer UK, especially, despise praising the game as his GOTY 1998, listed "the last levels" as a "bad point".
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  30. Post #950
    SwissArmyKnife's Avatar
    December 2009
    1,498 Posts
    Quality of it notwithstanding, that model doesn't particularly resemble the original HEV suit model, nor does it resemble Valve's official artwork depicting the suit.



    The BMS model uses colors that are either far too dark or just flat out wrong, altered some details (the metallic stomach and elbow joints changed to corrugated pipe, missing clasps on shins), and the pelvis part of the suit was changed into a speedo-like thing, apparently to accentuate Gordon's man parts for some reason.
    The problem with converting old 90s and early 2000s character designs to the present is that a lot of the concept work didn't account for it actually working in real life. Which was fine when you had a <50 polycount model because things would bend and warp and it wasn't that big a deal. The actual geometry was really simplified so the only thing that was warping when the model moved around was the texture.

    Now that you're having to animate things with fairly true to life geometry you have to worry about the thing actually moving around and not clipping horribly. For example the metallic diaper Gordon's wearing in the concept work means he'd be able to sort of swivel his legs a bit but other than he'd have to walk with just his knees. If you said "Well fuck that I do what I want" and animated him to run like a normal person his diaper and metal leg plates would clip through each other like crazy.

    You can pretty much apply that same issue to every other joint. Elbow, torso etc.
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  31. Post #951
    Gold Member
    Marphy Black's Avatar
    December 2004
    1,016 Posts
    I love that there is no possible way to bend forward or backwards in the two HL1 suits
    You should play the game again. Gordon exhibits plenty of flexibility.



    and the arms would lock up if they bent back too far because there is a giant piece of metal there.
    Valve has never seen a problem with the flexibility of the joints in Gordon's original HEV suit.



    I think it's fairly presumptuous for the BMS team to deem themselves qualified enough to be correcting Valve's "errors". After all, there's a reason why they're recreating Half-Life today and not Daikatana.
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  32. Post #952
    Maestro Fenix's Avatar
    November 2010
    1,356 Posts
    About the turret explanation, i dont understand why the cannon is changed too, instead of only the legs.
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  33. Post #953
    SwissArmyKnife's Avatar
    December 2009
    1,498 Posts
    You should play the game again. Gordon exhibits plenty of flexibility.



    Valve has never seen a problem with the flexibility of the joints in Gordon's original HEV suit.



    I think it's fairly presumptuous for the BMS team to deem themselves qualified enough to be correcting Valve's "errors". After all, there's a reason why they're recreating Half-Life today and not Daikatana.
    Valve corrected their own errors, look at the HEV suit from HL2. They changed the suit to actually make sense in a realistic environment.



    All of the joints, and even the entire lower torso, are mesh and other seemingly flexible materials instead of just metal everywhere all the time.

    You literally can't update the old HEV suit without it clipping horribly and making no sense to the player. And literally all the changed were the joints and the fact that the formally brushed metal of the breastplate is not as brushed as it was before.
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  34. Post #954
    Gold Member
    Cone's Avatar
    August 2011
    18,630 Posts
    Black Mesa can't be perfect with the fact that the hype will ruin the game for many people
    Well maybe if they didn't want hype they shouldn't have abandoned all progress every five or so years and adamantly refused to give proper status updates
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  35. Post #955
    Gold Member
    The freeman's Avatar
    October 2007
    6,436 Posts
    Well maybe if they didn't want hype they shouldn't have abandoned all progress every five or so years and adamantly refused to give proper status updates
    I am saying that hype will ruin every single game that gets it because people will always expect more out of every single game.
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  36. Post #956
    Gold Member
    Chrille's Avatar
    August 2005
    5,408 Posts
    I think it's fairly presumptuous for the BMS team to deem themselves qualified enough to be correcting Valve's "errors". After all, there's a reason why they're recreating Half-Life today and not Daikatana.
    Doesn't mean the game is flawless. And just how is it presumptuous to be correcting those errors in their own mod? Are they not allowed to have a critical view of it?

    On another note I'd like for nightlord (and that other dude) to explain what their problem with my argument was, instead of just rating it.
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  37. Post #957
    Gold Member
    Hell-met's Avatar
    April 2009
    7,012 Posts


    loved this one better.
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  38. Post #958
    Gold Member
    Cone's Avatar
    August 2011
    18,630 Posts
    I am saying that hype will ruin every single game that gets it because people will always expect more out of every single game.
    But they'll no doubt increase the hype by doing that. Whichever way you cut it, that's either not knowing your demographic well enough or simply not caring about them.

    Edited:



    loved this one better.
    what did they do to the helmet

    nobody needs eyes that big, it's a space that could be occupied by further armor replaced with weak glass
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  39. Post #959
    Gold Member
    Marphy Black's Avatar
    December 2004
    1,016 Posts
    And just how is it presumptuous to be correcting those errors in their own mod?
    Because it's second-guessing Valve's creative decisions, an act made blatantly obvious by baselessly assuming these are "errors" to begin with. Do you think Half-Life was slapped together in a week by a bunch of clueless yokels? That seems to be the impression many people have now when they compare it to the Valve of today, comprised of hundreds of employees and the King of Steam and all that. However, such a sentiment couldn't be farther from the truth. Back then, there were a number of remarkably talented individuals behind the scenes who were capable of developing a damn good game. And those people knew what they were doing.

    The HEV suit was one of many ideas that went through several design iterations (read Raising the Bar, see Ivan), yet this is how we ended up receiving it. So yes, the HEV suit is supposed to look like it does. There were no accidents or mistakes made. It's meant to look like that because that's how Valve wanted it to look. The BMS team isn't Valve, yet they're making changes by the boatload as if the original developers can't be trusted, as if the source material means nothing to them, as if they know better than Valve did. I'm not claiming Half-Life is perfect and that it couldn't be improved, but at the rate Black Mesa is going, there's going to be a point one day when you'll take a step back looking at it all and wonder, "Is this still supposed to be Half-Life?"

    what did they do to the helmet

    nobody needs eyes that big, it's a space that could be occupied by further armor replaced with weak glass
    The visor shape is based on and fairly accurate to the original HEV suit helmet. In fact, the whole helmet seems heavily inspired by Gearbox's PS2 version.

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  40. Post #960
    Gold Member
    The freeman's Avatar
    October 2007
    6,436 Posts
    Because it's second-guessing Valve's creative decisions, an act made blatantly obvious by baselessly assuming these are "errors" to begin with. Do you think Half-Life was slapped together in a week by a bunch of clueless yokels? That seems to be the impression many people have now when they compare it to Valve of today, comprised of hundreds of employees and the King of Steam and all that. However, such a sentiment couldn't be farther from the truth. Back then, there were a number of remarkably talented individuals behind the scenes who were capable of developing a damn good game. And those people knew what they were doing.

    The HEV suit was one of many ideas that went through several design iterations (read Raising the Bar, see Ivan), yet this is how we ended up receiving it. So yes, the HEV suit is supposed to look like it does. There were no accidents or mistakes made. It's meant to look like that because that's how Valve wanted it to look. The BMS team isn't Valve, yet they're making changes by the boatload as if the original developers can't be trusted, as if the source material means nothing to them, as if they know better than Valve did. I'm not claiming Half-Life is perfect and that it couldn't be improved, but at the rate Black Mesa is going, there's going to be a point one day when you'll take a step back looking at it all and wonder, "Is this still supposed to be Half-Life?"
    You are acting like the Black Mesa team is working for Valve and it has to be like what Valve made it
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