1. Post #1961
    Gold Member
    LoLWaT?'s Avatar
    August 2008
    6,329 Posts
    Actually, it might take even less time to get the files for the old turret model assuming the person(s) who worked on it would give them to you.

    Besides, everything about that new one is really switched up.
    Not just the legs, but the top portion looks a bit different too.
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  2. Post #1962
    Bloodshot12's Avatar
    June 2012
    5,942 Posts
    That screenshot was uploaded a while ago. Maybe it looks better now?

    I'm okay with the change for gameplay purposes and all, but the way that one was done it almost looks mangled
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  3. Post #1963
    Gold Member
    Chrille's Avatar
    August 2005
    5,458 Posts
    I am not a performing monkey!

    But since you asked, I'll give you another example (but just a small one since you were so impolite): it's a well known fact that the balaclava-wearing HECU soldier will not return in Black Mesa. Their justification is that it doesn't jive with their Face Creation System. However, there's a fatal problem here. The balaclava wasn't just for eyecandy. In Half-Life, the head variations on the grunts define the type of grunt they are. Gas masks indicate the standard MP5 grunt. The red beret indicates the normal MP5 squad leader. The cigar-chomping flat top indicates the MP5 squad leader with grenade launcher. Lastly, the balaclava designated the grunts who use shotguns. This is a critical game mechanic as clear and instant identification of your foes should be a top priority in battle, especially if it means avoiding a shotgun blast at point blank range. Nonetheless, the Black Mesa team doesn't care about that in the slightest and would just as happily cut the balaclavas simply because they're unrealistic.

    Incidentally, the balaclava's supposed conflict with the Face Creation System is a pretty asinine reasoning to cut it entirely. You could easily create a head submodel tailored specifically to the balaclava head variation (in other words, without a face under the mask) so that it wouldn't clash with the FCS in any way. I sincerely hope this kind of grievous short-sightedness didn't cause sacrifices elsewhere in the mod.

    I suggest you check out The Nameless Mod, an absolutely amazing Deus Ex modification. It didn't set out to revamp the graphics, but it delivers completely reworked game mechanics, a metric crap ton of new NPCS, weapons, sounds, music, and etc., hours (14!) of new spoken dialogue, dozens and dozens of new maps, and a massive new fictional universe drenched in lore and story branches comparable to Deus Ex itself (that's certainly a feat!). This mod also took seven years of development, but naturally, no one cares since it's for Deus Ex.
    So what, if they replace the baclava with something else that makes it easy to define a shotgun enemy who gives a shit? It's not like they don't know this. And considering they test this all the time, I'm sure they tried out the new turret versus the old (they did), and the old turret simply wasn't suited for the physics gameplay. The only really stupid change is the bullsquid.

    And now that we're on the subject, I always hated how chubby their houndeye looks compared to the slim one in HL2 concept art in RtB
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  4. Post #1964
    Bloodshot12's Avatar
    June 2012
    5,942 Posts
    I'm really glad they changed the MP5 model. After looking back at this one, it doesn't seem as cool (or as detailed) as I remember. Having a red dot on it is just stupid


    Also this doesn't matter at all, but I think it's really awesome how they even animated the secondary fire so he actually presses the grenade launcher trigger instead of somehow magically launching it from the weapon trigger. I'm a sucker for little details like that.
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  5. Post #1965
    Gold Member
    ewitwins's Avatar
    December 2009
    14,226 Posts
    I'm really glad they changed the MP5 model. After looking back at this one, it doesn't seem as cool (or as detailed) as I remember. Having a red dot on it is just stupid


    Also this doesn't matter at all, but I think it's really awesome how they even animated the secondary fire so he actually presses the grenade launcher trigger instead of somehow magically launching it from the weapon trigger. I'm a sucker for little details like that.
    Dat Jeep.
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  6. Post #1966
    Bloodshot12's Avatar
    June 2012
    5,942 Posts
    Dat Jeep.
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  7. Post #1967
    Gold Member
    sirdownloadsalot's Avatar
    March 2009
    4,715 Posts
    Are we all really complaining about one NPC's eyes being slightly modified to look better?
    This is a HD revision of the original game. Expect changes.
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  8. Post #1968
    Bloodshot12's Avatar
    June 2012
    5,942 Posts
    Personally, I never noticed the shotgun soldiers were wearing balaclavas in the original game until I played op4, looked them up, and then found out they were wearing them in HL1



    I'm really itching to play this mod if only for the fact that it has the gluon + gibbing in source. I really want to see how this weapon functions in game.
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  9. Post #1969
    ☆Artist of Science☆
    rikimaru6811's Avatar
    August 2010
    5,283 Posts
    I'm really glad they changed the MP5 model. After looking back at this one, it doesn't seem as cool (or as detailed) as I remember. Having a red dot on it is just stupid


    Also this doesn't matter at all, but I think it's really awesome how they even animated the secondary fire so he actually presses the grenade launcher trigger instead of somehow magically launching it from the weapon trigger. I'm a sucker for little details like that.
    I somehow prefer that model, that is, if they remove the red dot. Probably because of its position from the 1st person view.
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  10. Post #1970
    Gold Member
    Medevila's Avatar
    December 2008
    4,506 Posts
    I am pretty sure Black Mesa was destroyed by a nuke. Unless there is a time machine on the Borealis and you have to go back in time to stop the resonance cascade from ever happening, before the nuke blew up the facility.
    That could work- that could be a satisfying end to Half-Life if done right.
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  11. Post #1971
    Gold Member
    Chrille's Avatar
    August 2005
    5,458 Posts
    That could work- that could be a satisfying end to Half-Life if done right.
    Would set up quite a boring premise for HL3

    "Good morning Mr Freeman, the sample couldn't be delivered so we're not doing the test anyway. Have a nice day."
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  12. Post #1972
    Gold Member
    Tuskin's Avatar
    January 2005
    18,315 Posts
    http://forums.blackmesasource.com/sh...ostcount=19078

    We are releasing the game in parts, we've said as much on many occasions.
    Now he probably means In 2 Parts, MP and SP.

    But you never know.

    Edited:

    Oh.. wait

    http://forums.blackmesasource.com/sh...ostcount=19083

    Edited:

    Also more dev response on the Bullsquid changes

    http://forums.blackmesasource.com/sh...&postcount=222

    It's not a case of making it more realistic, it's more about making him readable in-game (you can see what he is paying attention to) and more alive (he's not just static). Aesthetically, yes, the eyes on the side look better, but there's more to game design than just the way something looks.
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  13. Post #1973
    Antimuffin's Avatar
    June 2011
    2,992 Posts
    Aw, man. You really never know if Raminator is serious or not.
    Stop teasing us! D:

    Still, I believe too, that he means part1: Singleplayer and part2: Multiplayer.
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  14. Post #1974
    ☆Artist of Science☆
    rikimaru6811's Avatar
    August 2010
    5,283 Posts
    Part 1: all contents except gameinfo.txt and the bin folder.
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  15. Post #1975
    Gold Member
    subenji99's Avatar
    May 2005
    3,572 Posts
    I suggest you check out The Nameless Mod, an absolutely amazing Deus Ex modification. It didn't set out to revamp the graphics, but it delivers completely reworked game mechanics, a metric crap ton of new NPCS, weapons, sounds, music, and etc., hours (14!) of new spoken dialogue, dozens and dozens of new maps, and a massive new fictional universe drenched in lore and story branches comparable to Deus Ex itself (that's certainly a feat!). This mod also took seven years of development, but naturally, no one cares since it's for Deus Ex.
    The Nameless Mod isn't ignored because it's for Deus Ex, it's ignored because despite all the effort put into it, it's a celebratory fan forum circlejerk mod full of in-jokes and community references and such - it's impenetrable to anyone approaching it as, you know, a total conversion mod. All that time and effort was wasted on a story that could never appeal to a wider audience.

    (I hate elaborating these obvious things but someone will comeback on it)
    I'm not saying it's impossible to play through, but you play that mod for 4 hours as an outsider and tell me you understand what's going on. All I could make out was "Go find the lost 'moderator' because the current one is an asshole - in Deus Ex."

    As for BM, I get what you're saying about the HECU - on the one hand they're making enemy recognition more ambiguous out of a perceived "laziness", which could be argued as a push for realism - except they've already set a precedent with the bullsquid for exactly the opposite, favouring quick enemy state recognition over 'realism'.
    First, I'd point out that we don't know for sure that the HECU 'classes' are ambiguous - only that they're not wearing balaclavas. It may turn out they all have different body builds, different shades of a similar uniform, their silhouettes may be suitably varied and so on.
    Second, if all you want from the Black Mesa team is a perfect recreation of the original in 'HD', well, shit, you should have just convinced FakeFactory to slap some 4096x4096 textures on everything and called it a day.

    I'm looking forward to a reimagining, not a perfect recreation.

    (Those turrets really are stupid though, and it's as though the BM team forgot that there's more ways to disable a turret than just knocking it over)
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  16. Post #1976
    Gold Member
    ColossalSoft's Avatar
    November 2009
    6,380 Posts
    Dat Jeep.
    You mean Joop.

    I for one am not a fan of the new bullsquids. They look stupid now.
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  17. Post #1977
    Gold Member
    Neo Kabuto's Avatar
    November 2008
    5,641 Posts
    I'm not saying it's impossible to play through, but you play that mod for 4 hours as an outsider and tell me you understand what's going on. All I could make out was "Go find the lost 'moderator' because the current one is an asshole - in Deus Ex."
    That is exactly how I felt about it. I just couldn't get into it because the story wasn't relatable or understandable to anyone who wasn't very involved in their forum.
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  18. Post #1978
    Gold Member
    Memobot's Avatar
    July 2006
    4,613 Posts
    I was thinking more along the lines of They Hunger or Sven Co-op.
    Absolutely. USS Darkstar...
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  19. Post #1979
    Gold Member
    Neo Kabuto's Avatar
    November 2008
    5,641 Posts
    Absolutely. USS Darkstar...
    Or even the sequel to it that never got made.
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  20. Post #1980
    Maestro Fenix's Avatar
    November 2010
    1,415 Posts
    Or even the sequel to it that never got made.
    They planned a sequel? Talk me more (in private) about it.


    I want to see more images about the Lambda Complex itself (the lastest pic about the portal was awesome).
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  21. Post #1981
    Gold Member
    Neo Kabuto's Avatar
    November 2008
    5,641 Posts
    They planned a sequel? Talk me more (in private) about it.
    They really just hinted at it, since the ending had a "To be continued..." message. No one can really know what would've happened if the team had stuck together after 2003. That's all.
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  22. Post #1982
    sa2fan's Avatar
    February 2010
    6,253 Posts
    I really wanted to play BM:S coop. Hopefully, someone can come up with that after release.
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  23. Post #1983
    Captain Westcliff: Thinks Wales is an Island
    NeoDement's Avatar
    January 2006
    18,294 Posts
    That is exactly how I felt about it. I just couldn't get into it because the story wasn't relatable or understandable to anyone who wasn't very involved in their forum.
    that sucks I was looking forward to playing that over summer
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  24. Post #1984
    Gold Member
    LoLWaT?'s Avatar
    August 2008
    6,329 Posts
    Originally Posted by jone4s
    I like it very much that you integrated a piece of tram track here.. When i played Half Life, i was always very disappointed that i've never encountered again any evidence of the tram system (black mesa transit system) from the chapter inbound, since its obviously the main transport system of the Black Mesa Research Facility.

    So far very well done, a great improvement of the level design. I wonder where this tram track leads to? or is it a dead end? : )

    Raminator:
    It's not a part of the transit system, you only see that in Inbound.
    Huh, that's a minor disappointment...

    I though the team said a while back that as we moved through some of the levels we would see references or other parts of the transit system in some places.

    It's weird how as you went through most of the game in Half-Life the only mention of the transit system was in the beginning of the game with you riding in the tram.
    You'd figure that the office complex would have atleast 1 platform. But nope, in the original Half-Life office workers had to walk through a canal to get to their place of work.

    It really is just a minor thing; but still, for what Black Mesa is trying to accomplish here, it doesn't make a lot of sense to not put those little details in.

    Edited:

    Heh... it's funny, as more of our questions are answered and as more media gets released, you begin to see just how imperfect this mod really is

    Edit:
    Just to clear something up, i'm not criticizing them.
    Nothing can ever be perfect, and they really don't need to stress over small things like that when they don't really affect the game at all.
    PLEASE Don't delay this shit for another two years.
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  25. Post #1985
    Gold Member
    Tuskin's Avatar
    January 2005
    18,315 Posts
    Someone on the BMS forums quoted your post and highlighted your line about how 'imperfect it is.'

    Edited:

    I don't think anyone ever thought it was perfect. Nothing is truly perfect.
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  26. Post #1986

    September 2008
    62 Posts
    I wish everyone didn't try to hold this mod to a "Valve standard". I don't think any mod team could ever live up to that title.
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  27. Post #1987
    Gold Member
    LoLWaT?'s Avatar
    August 2008
    6,329 Posts
    Oh uh... I didn't want it to sound like that necessarily...

    I should have thought of putting that into my post.

    This mod does a damn good job of recreating Half-Life 1, One of the best looking mods anyone has seen. Not to mention the scale of the project.
    But nothing can ever be perfect and it isn't my intention to criticize them about that.

    Besides, things like what I mentioned about the transit system, it's all very minor stuff that doesn't even affect anything in the game. They really don't need to stress over that stuff.

    Plus, the whole Valve standard thing is a matter of opinion really.
    Sure, maybe no mod team could ever reach that level, but you have to admit this mod does come pretty damn close.
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  28. Post #1988

    September 2008
    62 Posts
    One feature that I'm really hoping for are some neat physics puzzles like in the HL2 games. I always loved solving those.
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  29. Post #1989
    TheJoey's Avatar
    June 2010
    4,553 Posts
    hl2 puzzles were mostly physics based for your physics-altering tool. wouldn't make sense.
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  30. Post #1990
    Gold Member
    Tuskin's Avatar
    January 2005
    18,315 Posts
    They added 1 or 2 physics puzzles in HL:S I think.
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  31. Post #1991
    Gold Member
    En Ex's Avatar
    July 2011
    1,725 Posts
    They added 1 or 2 physics puzzles in HL:S I think.
    I thought they just made the water wavy.

    Imagine a physics-enhanced exploding microwave casserole.
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  32. Post #1992
    Gold Member
    LoLWaT?'s Avatar
    August 2008
    6,329 Posts
    AH...
    Stormseeker went ahead and gave me some clarification on the whole transit system deal.

    They did put references and sections of the transit system in, and we'll either see or have references to the other platforms that supposedly connect the various areas of the base.

    We just won't be riding any trams in any part of the game other than Inbound.
    (Which I wasn't expecting to in the first place anyways)

    It's nice that they did end up paying attention to those small details.

    Apparently, we'll also be seeing references to the other areas that were seen in the expansions.
    Like the biodome complex in Opposing Force.
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  33. Post #1993
    Gold Member
    ColossalSoft's Avatar
    November 2009
    6,380 Posts
    I thought they just made the water wavy.

    Imagine a physics-enhanced exploding microwave casserole.
    Like the buildings in the Episode 2 boss fight.
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  34. Post #1994
    Bloodshot12's Avatar
    June 2012
    5,942 Posts
    Here's the whole quote from stormseeker

    actually, there are references to the transit system elsewhere, you just don't get to ride on it anywhere else, as that was never a part of the original game.
    Technically the large semi circular track at the start of Blast Pit (one of my maps) is part of the old industrial tram system from the times when the base was military in nature, now abandoned. Instead of it ending at the broken pipe and radioactive lake, I extended the track into the distance, and made the bottom of the elevator a terminal and the break in the track explainable by a collapsed bridge caused by a roof fall, possibly related to the burst pipe that spewed all the radioactive liquid into that area.

    I also added a reference to the main transit system in Questionable Ethics as you exit the chapter to Surface Tension, you pass a door leading to the platform of Sector E, which iirc was the green line. If you could go to the platform from Questionable Ethics, and the main reason why I placed the entrance to it by the exit area to Surface Tension, you would find that the red line is also accessible on that platform, which leads to the Hydro Electric facility (Sector G -which is in Surface Tension).
    The green line also joins onto the secure yellow line that runs to the Lambda Complex, which was the primary method of transporting specimens from the teleporter to Xen to the Secure storage facility at the Biodome, which during the period of Half Life was still under construction. To allude to that, I placed a freight elevator at the rear of the facility near to the Autopsy Room, and a non traversable room labelled "Holding Pens" near another of the new labs. I've also added references to the biodome facility in the administration section of the QE Chapter.
    Although the Biodome Complex isn't the Advanced Biological Research Lab (which is roughly in the middle of Sector E and G), I made the decision to link it within the game, as it seemed to make sense that the ABR labs would be an earlier facility that was too small for the research intentions of Black Mesa, which is why the Biodome was under construction, hence why there are several linking references.

    If you spend time looking around the level, i'm sure you'll find all the links and references you want.

    My design document for Questionable Ethics was 56 pages long (about 25000 words or so), but alot of that was expanded or cut from the final version. In contrast, my design document for bm_c1a4a, the rail section of Blast Pit was only 12 pages long, but then it was only 1 map.
    There aren't really any other references I can think of in the game, you'll just have to assume the signs for the tram system are down one of the many corridors that expand out of each level and aren't traversable. Had we made more references, they would have made sense in a connective way. We're pretty tight on continuity, Ben Truman keeps a close eye on the storyline and anything that might detract from the original is double checked.

    I spoke with him at length during the planning stages of Questionable Ethics just to check on these things, and that they worked with his storyline development, as well as keeping them as canon as Mark Laidlaw would want it. I'll be putting the full development document for QE on my portfolio site when I finally get round to tidying it up. We had it on a private wiki, but when that shut down, I forgot to make a copy. Luckily I hand write all my design notes in a book, along with the vast array of technical concepts for props that I inflict on various modellers :P
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  35. Post #1995
    Gold Member
    Tuskin's Avatar
    January 2005
    18,315 Posts
    Very cool that they're putting that much detial into their maps.
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  36. Post #1996
    Gold Member
    ColossalSoft's Avatar
    November 2009
    6,380 Posts
    Very cool that they're putting that much detial into their maps.
    Meanwhile you need to put detail into your spelling just saying.


    Anyway, I know they showed off controllers at one point, but they were naked and it was nasty. Are they going to/have they added the loin cloth thing?
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  37. Post #1997
    Gold Member
    LoLWaT?'s Avatar
    August 2008
    6,329 Posts
    Meanwhile you need to put detail into your spelling just saying.


    Anyway, I know they showed off controllers at one point, but they were naked and it was nasty. Are they going to/have they added the loin cloth thing?
    Why?
    They didn't model anything there.

    Edited:

    Yes, I did in fact go to the Black Mesa website to look at a picture of it just because of this post.
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  38. Post #1998
    Gold Member
    Risonhighmer's Avatar
    June 2006
    2,395 Posts
    Meanwhile you need to put detail into your spelling just saying.


    Anyway, I know they showed off controllers at one point, but they were naked and it was nasty. Are they going to/have they added the loin cloth thing?
    I'm pretty sure the least of an evil alien with mind control's worries is whether or not it's willy is flopping around. Vortagaunts don't wear loincloths, why should the controllers?
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  39. Post #1999
    Gold Member
    Mr. Someguy's Avatar
    March 2006
    24,416 Posts
    controllers have some dignity

    Edited:

    some

    you can still see underneath them
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  40. Post #2000
    Gold Member
    Memobot's Avatar
    July 2006
    4,613 Posts
    Poke 646 and its sequel, and imagine a remade scientist slaughterhouse! Although judging on what I've seen of Black Mesa, SSH may look less funny, and more like Saw with those visuals.
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