1. Post #2161
    WillerinV1.02's Avatar
    September 2009
    3,730 Posts
    Oh wow, how convincing!
    Idiot.
    --->Joke

    Your head
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  2. Post #2162
    Gold Member
    sirdownloadsalot's Avatar
    March 2009
    4,608 Posts
    --->Joke

    Your head
    Huh...
    Normally jokes are funny...
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  3. Post #2163
    Gold Member
    lew06's Avatar
    October 2006
    1,124 Posts




    Lighten up
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  4. Post #2164
    Antimuffin's Avatar
    June 2011
    2,948 Posts
    Huh...
    Normally jokes are funny...
    It was just a post like the one by joneleth which people considered to be real, though there is no evidence and he should've posted a screen of that conversation.
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  5. Post #2165
    Abused by Girlfriend
    geogzm's Avatar
    January 2010
    19,643 Posts
    the mapping/texturing/modeling in that ingame pic looks much better than the alpha stages of black mesa which you posted a few pages ago
    Personally, I disagree, I'm mainly put off by that blue barrel in the bottom right and the strange floor lights. Also, that picture was a diversion from the bullsquid discussion, however there wasn't much point posting it as more arguments took place afterwards.

    The arguments are only going to stop when Black Mesa is released, it seems.
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  6. Post #2166
    Gold Member
    Butthurter's Avatar
    August 2007
    9,833 Posts
    whats wrong with arguing? isnt that the whole point of being in a forum
    again, i still fail to see how you seem to think this



    looks better than this

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  7. Post #2167
    Gold Member
    Neo Kabuto's Avatar
    November 2008
    5,641 Posts
    It was just a post like the one by joneleth which people considered to be real, though there is no evidence and he should've posted a screen of that conversation.
    That could still have been faked pretty easily, though. Just have a friend (or even simply another account logged on in a virtual machine) change his Steam name/icon to match the guy's, and then have the chat with the friend.


    Personally, I disagree, I'm mainly put off by that blue barrel in the bottom right and the strange floor lights.
    That barrel really looks awful compared to the other parts of the map.
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  8. Post #2168
    Abused by Girlfriend
    geogzm's Avatar
    January 2010
    19,643 Posts
    whats wrong with arguing? isnt that the whole point of being in a forum
    again, i still fail to see how you seem to think this



    looks better than this

    It depends if it's incessant arguing or an intelligent, non-hostile argument. The majority of arguments in this thread are closer to the former.
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  9. Post #2169
    Gold Member
    Chrille's Avatar
    August 2005
    5,435 Posts
    whats wrong with arguing? isnt that the whole point of being in a forum
    again, i still fail to see how you seem to think this
    looks better than this
    It's the little things that bug me about the Guard Duty one. And the horrible wall textures (why are there pipes on the wall texture?)

    You have an essentially square room with little geometrical detail. The most detailed brushwork is the ceiling, which is broken up by beams, and the floor which has two cylinders and one arch to make it curvy, something that is inconsistent with the handrail which doesn't cover the curvature. The simple brushwork wouldn't be as big a problem if it wasn't because of the bare wall textures, but right now it's just four walls, cluttered with props to make them seem detailed.

    Then you have the ventilation shaft, which clips with two of the support beams which looks bad, and why are there vents in the wall and a ventilation shaft? I can see at least five vents randomly placed in the room.

    The window-wall on the right side is a nice touch to break up bare wall, but the brushes surrounding it are far too big; they look at least 6-8 units wide when it should be 2 to 4 units. Make's it look like it's goldsrc, whereas the ones in the Black Mesa screenshot are 2 units wide and 4, respectively. The sudden transition from the rubber dot floor to the metal wall also bugs me, and it could really use some trim texture to separate them. The lights on the bottom floor are also too way bright which is distracting, and the bottom floor looks really empty compared to the elevated one.

    The only criticism I have of the Black Mesa screenshot is that the lighting is boring (realistic isn't always good) and that the bench and bin look out of place. The props compliment the architecture (which is some rad curving) and aren't cluttering the thing, and the textures are actually good, which helps a lot. It's simplistic without being under-detailed.

    Edited:

    just my two cents
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  10. Post #2170
    SFC3's Avatar
    July 2009
    2,629 Posts
    whats wrong with arguing? isnt that the whole point of being in a forum
    again, i still fail to see how you seem to think this



    looks better than this

    how do you compare that, their two different mods.....
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  11. Post #2171
    Gold Member
    LoLWaT?'s Avatar
    August 2008
    6,278 Posts
    whats wrong with arguing? isnt that the whole point of being in a forum
    again, i still fail to see how you seem to think this



    looks better than this

    Well for starters, most of the lighting in the Guard Duty one doesn't look good.
    (Those lamps on the floor, EUGH)
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  12. Post #2172
    Bloodshot12's Avatar
    June 2012
    5,782 Posts


    That's one ugly motherfucker
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  13. Post #2173
    Abused by Girlfriend
    geogzm's Avatar
    January 2010
    19,643 Posts


    That's one ugly motherfucker
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  14. Post #2174
    Bloodshot12's Avatar
    June 2012
    5,782 Posts
    More old media



    It's that room of suspended boxes that had no purpose, now with moar boxes
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  15. Post #2175
    Smug Bastard's Avatar
    April 2011
    2,626 Posts
    I wonder if the boxes move when you jump on them. I actually don't see why they wouldn't.
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  16. Post #2176
    Blacksheepboy's Avatar
    June 2010
    208 Posts
    Yes, the boxes jiggle
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  17. Post #2177
    ☆Artist of Science☆
    rikimaru6811's Avatar
    August 2010
    5,273 Posts
    I wonder if the boxes move when you jump on them. I actually don't see why they wouldn't.
    IIRC they did move in HL: Source
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  18. Post #2178
    Gold Member
    Mr._N's Avatar
    July 2006
    4,882 Posts


    That's one ugly motherfucker
    Spitter's brother.
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  19. Post #2179
    The Mullock Project
    OneFourth's Avatar
    June 2011
    2,487 Posts
    Huh...
    Normally jokes are funny...
    you obviously havent heard of doomeddec
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  20. Post #2180
    Gold Member
    sirdownloadsalot's Avatar
    March 2009
    4,608 Posts
    you obviously havent heard of doomeddec
    Don't bring back the nightmares.
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  21. Post #2181
    CrumbleShake's Avatar
    June 2010
    2,454 Posts
    how do you compare that, their two different mods.....
    What? The two different mods are what is being compared.
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  22. Post #2182
    I wish I had a tentacle hand. Japan would pay billions for some real-life tentacles.
    Bokito's Avatar
    February 2009
    4,540 Posts
    What? The two different mods are what is being compared.
    They're even in the same engine, have the same genre and use the same locations and styles (not exactly the same but very close). We have all right to compare the two.
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  23. Post #2183
    Abused by Girlfriend
    geogzm's Avatar
    January 2010
    19,643 Posts
    More old media



    It's that room of suspended boxes that had no purpose, now with moar boxes
    Holy shit, I never thought those boxes would ever be given a realistic context...they're really outdoing themselves.
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  24. Post #2184
    Francisco's Avatar
    June 2012
    856 Posts
    Holy shit, I never thought those boxes would ever be given a realistic context...they're really outdoing themselves.
    you should play opposing force.
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  25. Post #2185
    soullink's Avatar
    April 2010
    727 Posts
    whats wrong with arguing? isnt that the whole point of being in a forum
    again, i still fail to see how you seem to think this



    looks better than this

    At least, When The Black Mesa team take some screen-shots, they use Anti-aliasing.
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  26. Post #2186
    ArchXeno's Avatar
    March 2010
    929 Posts
    Black Mesa: Source V4 - Concept Art Wars
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  27. Post #2187
    Abused by Girlfriend
    geogzm's Avatar
    January 2010
    19,643 Posts
    you should play opposing force.
    I have been, I just got past the first assassins
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  28. Post #2188
    ALPHA MALE
    Dennab
    January 2012
    1,541 Posts


    That's one ugly motherfucker
    Headcrabs keep their host alive. Meaning even though it's controlling Barney's (or generic security officers') body, they can still feel everything and think. Can you imagine how much pain and suffering you were to go through if you were so drastically mutilated?

    Also, does anyone else get a The Thing vibe from the hands turning into claws? Is that were Valve got their inspiration?
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  29. Post #2189
    I made WAYWO a better place
    OldFusion's Avatar
    September 2011
    1,311 Posts
    IIRC they did move in HL: Source
    When Hl1: Source got released jumping on the boxes would shoot you in to the roof.
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  30. Post #2190
    thread killa
    Mericet's Avatar
    May 2010
    963 Posts
    Also, does anyone else get a The Thing vibe from the hands turning into claws? Is that were Valve got their inspiration?
    If it's not the claws, then it's almost certainly the chest cavity mouth and the headcrab (which is even more like the Thing now that they can survive host death).

    When Hl1: Source got released jumping on the boxes would shoot you in to the roof.
    Yeah, I've been wary of physics objects in Source being used for jumping puzzles ever since trying to jump on an overturned barrel instantly killed me in Black Mesa East.

    I hope those crates are static or at least stable enough that they barely move when shot at or jumped on.
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  31. Post #2191
    Bloodshot12's Avatar
    June 2012
    5,782 Posts
    I'm sure if they physics objects for the boxes they would make sure that doesn't happen or not do it at all.

    Being launched through the roof of black mesa from a suspended box seems like a pretty noticeable glitch if you ask me.

    Also I like how they made things like bullsquid spit stick to your crowbar
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  32. Post #2192
    Resident Beat Eater.
    wauterboi's Avatar
    August 2009
    3,883 Posts
    I'm sure if they physics objects for the boxes they would make sure that doesn't happen or not do it at all.
    It still happens sometimes when you do certain things like using props together with func_rotating entities in Half-Life 2. Well, at least when I was messing with them.
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  33. Post #2193
    Gold Member
    kaskade700's Avatar
    January 2008
    6,153 Posts
    It still happens sometimes when you do certain things like using props together with func_rotating entities in Half-Life 2. Well, at least when I was messing with them.
    Not if you correctly chose a prop_dynamic
    Using physics props parented, pullied, ballsocketed or whatever to a func_rotating is asking for trouble.
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  34. Post #2194
    Bloodshot12's Avatar
    June 2012
    5,782 Posts
    Interesting post from Stormseeker about the questionable ethics chapter.

    Stormseeker posted:
    When I joined the team back in 2006, I chose to do Questionable Ethics, mainly because the chapter had no work started on it other than a few small concepts and rough ideas. I spent around 4 months researching the chapter and its canon, making copious amounts of notes on all the main features, and made sure to note each area in importance of anything iconic. For example, when researching the logo in the lobby, the Latin of it was hard to decipher, it had a rough meaning, but wasn't actual Latin. The original texture artist had created the logo and motto of the labs based on a rough interpretation from a friend she knew. I could have translated the correct version of this, and had a new motto placed by the logo. However, I consider this logo to be one of the more iconic and memorable parts of the chapter, and even changing the wording would detract from it.

    Alot of the design decisions I made were along the lines of "how would I design this in reality", should I have been assigned as the architect of the facility. This to me meant, you don't have a situation in the design where you have a level 4 biohazard lab to pass through to reach your own lab. It also made sense to me that something as dangerous as a new alien species would require a certain level of security beyond that of most of the other labs, including decontamination chambers. I decided to make a tie-in to HL2's decontamination room at Black Mesa East, ascertaining that they would have based their makeshift one, on existing chambers at Black Mesa. I created a sign system, mainly for aesthetics but also to create a "hospital" style theme to the bio labs, but also as a functional design feature that helps guide the player.

    One of the things that struck me about the original Questionable Ethics labs, was the lack of storyline expansion in the area, it was a high tech lab that had rooms with teslas and not much else going on. Odd rooms with tanks in the ground for alien grunts to rise out of etc. Yet this was the place Gordon was supposed to realise that humans had been visiting Xen secretly for some time. Other expansions to Half Life explored this theme a bit more, and whilst ambiguous in his responses, Mark Laidlaw seems happy to consider those expansions canon for the time being. As such, in order to expand upon the theme of the lab, I added only light references to places like the Biodome and the transit system, as well as the links between Lambda Core and the ABRF. I also wanted to expand upon the idea that scientists were being eliminated by the HECU in order to cover the accident up, and the ABRF was a main focus, so this will be seen in greater detail, enhancing the overall storyline and goal of the chapter (rescuing the scientist from the surgery room, as instructed by the guard at the start of the chapter).

    As far as sticking to the original layout, I had issues with room placement that didn't seem to make sense from a construction perspective. As such, I took the decision to make a list of all the rooms that were in the original, remove any rooms that were forgettable or didn't play a role, redesign those rooms that didn't make much sense, expand upon those that did.

    The room you come to after the lobby in the original map with the twin side rooms for example, is now found before the lobby, the headcrab pen room which didn't have much function as a design was replaced with something interactive, but along the same lines. The alien grunt in the tank, I considered iconic enough to leave the design pretty much the same. However the gameplay never made much sense to me, if you broke the glass or the button, the door would open... So at that point in the design planning stage, I decided to take the action component out of this section, and replace with interaction, exploration and storyline expansion. Which is why the Agrunt can be seen on fire in the recent media shot, as it is part of a simple experiment you can choose to take part in, depending on whether your curiosity is stronger than your sense of ethics. That first map of the chapter is largely about exploring the concept of the chapter, exploring the idea of unethical research and giving the player the opportunity to take part or opt out. I deliberately designed that section of the chapter so that you can either kill everything, or harm nothing at all should you want. Realising that curiosity often overrides ethical boundaries when there are no drawbacks or bad outcomes to doing so. Often you will be rewarded for conducting such unethical research in reality in those sorts of situations.

    There will be some people that consider changing this part of the map from a combat pacing, to an explorative pacing as wrong. I considered that before making the change, and decided that in the context of the gameplay I wanted to create, and the flow of the gameplay across the chapter, that it fitted better to have the storyline and chapter concept enhanced than adding more combat. The storyline in this first area is told via self discovery and exploration of the overall theme, rather than direct choreography or scene development, hopefully allowing for better immersion and letting the player interpret their own experience and fill in the gaps.
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  35. Post #2195
    Gold Member
    Marphy Black's Avatar
    December 2004
    1,042 Posts
    stormseeker posted:
    The alien grunt in the tank, I considered iconic enough to leave the design pretty much the same. However the gameplay never made much sense to me, if you broke the glass or the button, the door would open... So at that point in the design planning stage, I decided to take the action component out of this section, and replace with interaction, exploration and storyline expansion. Which is why the Agrunt can be seen on fire in the recent media shot, as it is part of a simple experiment you can choose to take part in, depending on whether your curiosity is stronger than your sense of ethics. That first map of the chapter is largely about exploring the concept of the chapter, exploring the idea of unethical research and giving the player the opportunity to take part or opt out. I deliberately designed that section of the chapter so that you can either kill everything, or harm nothing at all should you want. Realising that curiosity often overrides ethical boundaries when there are no drawbacks or bad outcomes to doing so. Often you will be rewarded for conducting such unethical research in reality in those sorts of situations.
    This guy is way overthinking it. The point of the first encounter with the Alien Grunt is that it's your first encounter with the Alien Grunt. You can't leave the room without fighting him, a deliberate game mechanic meant to dramatically reveal and introduce to you to a new enemy type, and it's plenty proper your first battle with a ruthless foot soldier manufactured solely for war occurs after he frees himself (quite theatrically, I might add) from his cage.

    The purpose of the Questionable Ethics chapter as a whole is not only to discover that the science team knows a lot more about these invading alien species than you were lead to believe (a classic government conspiracy that has much to do with the BMRF's real life inspirations), but also to witness that said alien species are breaking free from their captors. We see scientists and guards hold up while Headcrabs, Houndeyes, and Bullsquids escape from their confines as the HECU continues to exterminate every last living being they find. I don't see how you could interpret this section to be about Gordon's "ethical" decisions since he never participated in these secret experiments. He didn't even know about them until he first set foot into this research lab. I'm pretty sure the player's feeling at this point was meant to be an epiphany along the lines of "So those science geeks knew about these aliens all along!", not a deeply introspective "Do I set this thing I've never seen before on fire or not?" The "questionable ethics" in question are of the science team's actions, not the player's. Also, the Xenian lifeforms aren't exactly sympathetic creatures you'd want to mercifully spare. They're mostly parasites, feral wildlife, brutish warriors, or tyrannical slave masters. The only exception of an intelligent and potentially benevolent race are the Alien Slaves, and they didn't appear in Questionable Ethics.

    Considering the Black Mesa team is already cutting down heavily on the game's gameplay, I don't believe it's appropriate that they sacrifice even more gameplay in lieu of some bizarre and hokey black-and-white morality choices. In fact, I think this directly conflicts with Half-Life 1's intentionally ambiguous morals: you were free to to work with and protect your fellow personnel or you could run through the story only looking out for your own skin while using everyone else as cannon fodder unless they're otherwise absolutely critical. Friendly fire on allied NPCs was possible for a reason, after all. Even so, I'd say Valve was pretty successful presenting voluntary ethical decisions as I've heard many a time that players felt compelled to team up with those lovable Barneys and Walters even though they were never forced into a "do you play as a morally righteous paragon or not" scenario.
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  36. Post #2196
    Gold Member
    Lexic's Avatar
    March 2009
    6,123 Posts
    From the look of the last set of screenshots (2000 likes ones) they do now...
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  37. Post #2197
    Bloodshot12's Avatar
    June 2012
    5,782 Posts
    But I have tried to keep the themes ambiguous as to the scientists role in the facility, that's for the player to decide on. You still need them to open the door for you, and the guard is always a handy ally. The theme of the marines trying to wipe everything out, the Xenians escaping their confinement etc are all conveyed using functional design and storytelling sets (bloody footprints leading away from a door with a 'dragged body' blood smear under it, bullet holes in the wall nearby and a cleaning bucket nearby on its side ~ for example). These both tell a small story the player can work out for themselves, and it alerts the player to potential action up ahead. I've not removed gameplay however to tell the story, in fact theres alot more action in the chapter now like the rest of the mod. I might have moved some of it around in order to control pacing, but where I've removed in one place, its made up for in other areas.

    As for the unethical research, thats definitely described by the enviroment and atmosphere, and the fairly detailed whiteboards I've drawn and placed in the labs (you'll find a selection of those in AM and UC as well). Its darker than the original, partially because I'm conveying the aftermath of the Resonance Cascade and the attack by the hecu, but also to set a mood and be able to better use functional and directional lighting to guide the player in what is a fairly large and complex layout. It would be quite bright had half the power not been knocked out.
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  38. Post #2198
    Gold Member
    Mr. Someguy's Avatar
    March 2006
    24,189 Posts
    Imo Surface Tension should be the most actiony chapter, considering it's pretty much entirely about the escalating conflict between the US Military and Alien Forces.

    Edited:

    Surface Tension should have had more NPC battles.
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  39. Post #2199
    SFC3's Avatar
    July 2009
    2,629 Posts
    Aliens Vs Military Vs Gordon Freeman battles, HL didn't have many of those.
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  40. Post #2200
    Flyingman356's Avatar
    June 2008
    5,061 Posts
    Imo Surface Tension should be the most actiony chapter, considering it's pretty much entirely about the escalating conflict between the US Military and Alien Forces.

    Edited:

    Surface Tension should have had more NPC battles.
    It took me like a billion years to finish it

    I must've tripped that landmine next to the mine entrance at least 30 times
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