1. Post #1
    Silly men accomplish magnificant tasks, the current ammount of womens rear exits that have surrounded my penis makes me confident I will accomplish, shit.
    Joppari's Avatar
    July 2008
    3,423 Posts
    Here we discuss shit on do these work or not.
    In my opinion most of them are purely placebo, but some shit like Homeopathy may work, but those crystals containing energy which are supposed to heal you, not likely

    links
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charmstone
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone_therapy
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_medicine



    Edited:

    Also notice how most of the people who believe these charmstone stuff are usually well educated young women. How many times have you seen men doing shit like these? I mean of course there are men who do this, but.

  2. Post #2
    WhatTheKlent's Avatar
    December 2008
    802 Posts
    Homeopathy is a ridiculous extrapolation of other, real phenomena.
    The concentrations are ridiculous, until the people selling it come up with some scientific evidence for "water memory" it should be considered bullshit.

  3. Post #3
    Ask me about my .gif fetish
    st0rmforce's Avatar
    February 2008
    3,594 Posts
    Homeopathy is a ridiculous extrapolation of other, real phenomena.
    The concentrations are ridiculous, until the people selling it come up with some scientific evidence for "water memory" it should be considered bullshit.
    Somebody did prove that water memory exists, but homoeopaths downplay the fact that the time-frames involved are measured in picoseconds.

    Homoeopathy can be explained with a combination of the placebo effect and regression to the mean.

  4. Post #4
    Proudly supporting the JIDF
    Dennab
    July 2010
    22,111 Posts
    The vast majority of alternate medicine (That is anything not proven by a collection of real scientists who know how shit works) is more or less bullshit. They have grains of truth in them with regards to having a placebo effect, or some may reduce stress slightly as they may be glorified massages.

    But they are essentially bullshit, that often borders on the line of badly hurting the person who could be seeking real medical treatment instead. Herbal medicine is marginally better in that it helps in some medical conditions, but since then vastly more improved alternatives have been created.

    Every day humans get closer to curing diseases, lengthening lives and improving overall health. But certainly alternative medicine is NOT the way to be going about it.

  5. Post #5
    Collin665's Avatar
    January 2008
    2,339 Posts
    Somebody did prove that water memory exists, but homoeopaths downplay the fact that the time-frames involved are measured in picoseconds.
    The only studies that were shown that water has 'water memory' were later repeated with zero evidence to the fact. If you happen to have a reliable source, however, then go ahead and post.

  6. Post #6
    they don't do shit

  7. Post #7
    Gold Member
    acds's Avatar
    October 2008
    14,924 Posts
    99% bullshit. Some herbs do have some effects, however they are no substitute for actual medicine (sure the herb might calm you a bit, but if you have real anxiety problems it won't help jack shit).
    If anything some can be decent for "lightweight" problems (if you feel a bit anxious and downing a Xanax is way too much, that herb might help). However so does a cup of tepid milk with honey, doesn't make it medicine.

  8. Post #8
    Gold Member
    fluke42's Avatar
    November 2011
    484 Posts
    You realize the picture spelled hematite wrong, right?
    This is in German, isn't it?

  9. Post #9
    Gold Member
    acds's Avatar
    October 2008
    14,924 Posts
    Though if the placebo is strong enough to solve the problem, it might be better than normal treatments (in case of psychological problems). If the guy has anxiety problems and believes the alternative shit works, it's better to give him a compact pill made from free-range trees and all natural hair from the Hiawatha tribe (that is really only some compacted flour) than putting him on some heavy anti-depressant that has a tonne of nasty side-effects.

  10. Post #10
    Gold Member
    sp00ks's Avatar
    January 2008
    12,052 Posts
    Homeopathy is 100% bullshit. It's literally nothing but water.

    Edited:

    There's a reason alternative medicine is alternative: It doesn't work

  11. Post #11
    Gold Member
    tyanet's Avatar
    June 2007
    3,114 Posts
    I'll buy it, as long as there's reliable research to back it up.

  12. Post #12
    Jeep-Eep's Avatar
    June 2010
    4,744 Posts
    It's a con, pushers of everything listed in the OP ought to be locked up as quacks.

    That's my attitude in a nutshell.

    Homeopathy is 100% bullshit. It's literally nothing but water.

    Edited:

    There's a reason alternative medicine is alternative: It doesn't work
    This.

  13. Post #13
    dubstep
    SCopE5000's Avatar
    August 2005
    4,193 Posts
    From a Western dualistic viewpoint yes.

    The thing with traditional eastern medicine and indeed with things such as meditation, which originated in the east, are that the effects are experiental, and thus can't really be measured (as you can't exactly measure the effects on people's feelings) aside from experiencing them yourself.

    I mean, you could consider all of that that to be a placebo in effect, much like you might dismiss something as simple as meditation with "so what? sitting and thinking about nothing? what good can that do you?" until you tried it and it had a profound effect on you which improved the quality of your life.

    That said, I'd be cautious if you decided to try certain things (like acupuncture, chakras or Qi-gong) as the internet has allowed tons of psuedo-scientific, esoteric nonsense to take the place of legitimate well-sourced information which was written with solely good-intentions.

  14. Post #14
    Gold Member
    VistaPOWA's Avatar
    October 2008
    8,370 Posts
    Homeopathy is bullshit, you have to be very very lucky to get even a SINGLE molecule of whatever the active ingredient is in that bottle of water you buy for $19.95.

  15. Post #15
    Ask me about my .gif fetish
    st0rmforce's Avatar
    February 2008
    3,594 Posts
    I would be in favour of it, if the quacks didn't sell it the way they do. The placebo effect can actually make people better and it has no side-effects, so where's the harm?
    Well, the problem is that it gets in the way of real medicine. One extreme example is the fact that most alternative medicine practitioners, including homoeopaths are dead against vaccination and campaign against it. I remember somebody saying that he thinks we could have eradicated Measles by now if it wasn't for the efforts of Homoeopaths.

    Another problem is untrained people are pretending to know what they're talking about. It's fine if somebody comes in with something that isn't serious, they're given an empty pill and get better on their own. But if somebody comes in with something dangerous, the quack probably isn't going to know until the patient dies.

  16. Post #16
    Gold Member
    The Saiko's Avatar
    May 2007
    726 Posts
    Though if the placebo is strong enough to solve the problem, it might be better than normal treatments (in case of psychological problems). If the guy has anxiety problems and believes the alternative shit works, it's better to give him a compact pill made from free-range trees and all natural hair from the Hiawatha tribe (that is really only some compacted flour) than putting him on some heavy anti-depressant that has a tonne of nasty side-effects.
    Umm... We define medicine as something that works better at treating something than a placebo. So a Placebo can never be better than actual medicine.

  17. Post #17
    Gold Member
    luverofJ!93's Avatar
    August 2007
    1,346 Posts
    nearly 100% bullshit

  18. Post #18
    Proudly supporting the JIDF
    Dennab
    July 2010
    22,111 Posts
    Alternative medicine creating a placebo effect is no excuse for it to be accepted as standard medical practice.

    At the very most, anything other than a scientifically proven method of proper medical attention is only good for making people with more money than sense more reassured.

    If its ever used to treat a real medical condition, it sickens me to think that somebody will be putting their faith in ancient quack methods based on the advice of a con man or fool.

    The placebo effect can also be managed by using a simple sugar pill rather than an elaborate procedure like acupuncture, which has been dis-proven along with other snake oil medical treatments.

  19. Post #19
    The thing with traditional eastern medicine and indeed with things such as meditation, which originated in the east, are that the effects are experiental, and thus can't really be measured (as you can't exactly measure the effects on people's feelings) aside from experiencing them yourself.

    I mean, you could consider all of that that to be a placebo in effect, much like you might dismiss something as simple as meditation with "so what? sitting and thinking about nothing? what good can that do you?" until you tried it and it had a profound effect on you which improved the quality of your life.
    no we really can quantify this. we have MRI machines

  20. Post #20
    Gold Member

    May 2005
    2,268 Posts
    Nothing but placebo bullshit.

  21. Post #21
    Gold Member
    Catdaemon's Avatar
    February 2005
    2,821 Posts
    it's a fucking rock

    you can't possibly find something in nature that does less than these things

  22. Post #22
    Gold Member
    BrainDeath's Avatar
    April 2007
    4,166 Posts
    All BS but meditation, which has various good effects on your health (although it's not for treating specific conditions).

    It's important not to mix up alternative medicine and herbal medicine. Herbal medicine often works, after all, most drugs are synthesised from plant extracts.

  23. Post #23
    Gold Member
    acds's Avatar
    October 2008
    14,924 Posts
    Umm... We define medicine as something that works better at treating something than a placebo. So a Placebo can never be better than actual medicine.
    Didn't say anything about that. Just that for some things, it might be better to give them placebo than the actual medicine (again, anxiety and stress comes to mind).

  24. Post #24
    !TROLLMAIL!'s Avatar
    January 2012
    141 Posts
    Lapis Lauzli... seems familiar alot?

    On topic though,if people used it alot,it must have been worked,because they wouldn't use it.

  25. Post #25
    fox '09's Avatar
    July 2010
    1,310 Posts
    alternative medicine should mean exercising to help with depression instead of taking pills, not the equivalent of astrology.

  26. Post #26
    GetOutOfBox's Avatar
    April 2009
    847 Posts
    I would be in favour of it, if the quacks didn't sell it the way they do. The placebo effect can actually make people better and it has no side-effects, so where's the harm?
    Well, the problem is that it gets in the way of real medicine. One extreme example is the fact that most alternative medicine practitioners, including homoeopaths are dead against vaccination and campaign against it. I remember somebody saying that he thinks we could have eradicated Measles by now if it wasn't for the efforts of Homoeopaths.

    Another problem is untrained people are pretending to know what they're talking about. It's fine if somebody comes in with something that isn't serious, they're given an empty pill and get better on their own. But if somebody comes in with something dangerous, the quack probably isn't going to know until the patient dies.
    The only time the Placebo effect would in any way be a substitute for actual medicine is if the so-called "illness" is psychiatric in origin, and not based upon an actual physiological disorder, trauma, or disease.

    I'll buy it, as long as there's reliable research to back it up.
    If there's enough reliable research to back it up, then it wouldn't be ALTERNATIVE medicine, would it?

  27. Post #27
    Gold Member
    Jookia's Avatar
    July 2007
    6,768 Posts
    Do you know what they call alternative medicine that works? Medicine.

  28. Post #28
    Djentleman's Avatar
    October 2011
    294 Posts
    Some Herbs and things you find in a forest or deep in the Canadian bush-lands actually do have some pretty helpful effects. There's various medicinal salves you can make out of things such as tree gum and certain types of herbs. But that's for things like light-to-moderate cuts and minor ailments. It would likely never help you if you were ever diagnosed with something serious.

    As for homeopathy and charmstones and other "alternative medicines" you see "whistleblowers" preach all the damn time, it's all proven to be complete junk science.

  29. Post #29
    "We should allow child labor overseas ...the sweatshop is what is saving the 9 year old worker"
    Pepin's Avatar
    April 2007
    6,864 Posts
    There are a few things to keep in mind in this discussion, first is the potential medicinal uses of the placebo effect, second is to understand the state of mind people are in who try alternative medicine. Clinically, any positive effect occurs in the mind and is not physical. Where this gets interesting is in how the mind affects the body in that although it is simply a placebo, the subject actually feels effects from it. To make what I am saying more obvious, just because something does not have a physical effect does not mean it won't lead to a physical effect. People suffering from conversion disorder for instance will go into non-epileptic seizures because due to stress and anxiety. Though the disorder manifests physically, the method of solving it is through therapy (medications only provide short term aid). People who tend to believe in homeopathic medicine are typically quite invested in it, which completely magnifies the placebo effect. It is essential to understand that although the effectiveness of a placebo is all created within the mind, it doesn't at all imply that the positive results from that are bad or fake.

    To put it this way, imagine you were suffering from extreme stress. You've tried a number of medicinal treatments that have not worked. You then go out on a limb and try some homeopathic treatment and find that your stress is substantially lowered. You realize that it is all placebo, but it is a placebo that works, and a placebo that works far better than anything your doctor's given you. Should you continue taking it?

  30. Post #30

    November 2010
    510 Posts
    Hah, I didn't think Malachite or Lapis Lazuli were actually real. Shame on me I guess. Sorry to be off topic. As for home medicine, it's BS as most of you have said. It straight up doesn't work.

  31. Post #31
    Gold Member
    Jookia's Avatar
    July 2007
    6,768 Posts
    There are a few things to keep in mind in this discussion, first is the potential medicinal uses of the placebo effect, second is to understand the state of mind people are in who try alternative medicine. Clinically, any positive effect occurs in the mind and is not physical. Where this gets interesting is in how the mind affects the body in that although it is simply a placebo, the subject actually feels effects from it. To make what I am saying more obvious, just because something does not have a physical effect does not mean it won't lead to a physical effect. People suffering from conversion disorder for instance will go into non-epileptic seizures because due to stress and anxiety. Though the disorder manifests physically, the method of solving it is through therapy (medications only provide short term aid). People who tend to believe in homeopathic medicine are typically quite invested in it, which completely magnifies the placebo effect. It is essential to understand that although the effectiveness of a placebo is all created within the mind, it doesn't at all imply that the positive results from that are bad or fake.

    To put it this way, imagine you were suffering from extreme stress. You've tried a number of medicinal treatments that have not worked. You then go out on a limb and try some homeopathic treatment and find that your stress is substantially lowered. You realize that it is all placebo, but it is a placebo that works, and a placebo that works far better than anything your doctor's given you. Should you continue taking it?
    Shall I make a strawman for you? We're discussing if the medicines work, not make you feel better while your biological form deteriorates.

  32. Post #32
    Ask me about my .gif fetish
    st0rmforce's Avatar
    February 2008
    3,594 Posts
    Shall I make a strawman for you? We're discussing if the medicines work, not make you feel better while your biological form deteriorates.
    Well everybody knows that they do nothing. If you want a discussion on whether or not lumps of rock actually can heal illness, then you're going to have to wait a while.
    Also the placebo effect is a lot more powerful than most people realise. It doesn't just "make you feel better", it can actually trick your brain into fixing things.

  33. Post #33
    Gold Member
    gamefreek76's Avatar
    October 2005
    7,239 Posts
    Not all alternative medicine is mumbo jumbo.
    For example, chewing on willow bark was historically used to alleviate all kinds of pains.
    Of course, now we know that willow bark contains salicylic acid, which is the main ingredient in aspirin.

    We based a lot of our current medicine on alternative medicines that were proven to work.

  34. Post #34
    Proudly supporting the JIDF
    Dennab
    July 2010
    22,111 Posts
    Not all alternative medicine is mumbo jumbo.
    For example, chewing on willow bark was historically used to alleviate all kinds of pains.
    Of course, now we know that willow bark contains salicylic acid, which is the main ingredient in aspirin.

    We based a lot of our current medicine on alternative medicines that were proven to work.
    The rest however, was subsequently disproven by modern scientific methods. Stuff such as homeopathy, ear candles, acupuncture, healing stones and spiritual healing is ancient crap left over from a backwards time when they had nothing else to treat the disease with.

    300 years ago, you would be given a bath in chilled salt water to treat rabies. Surprisingly most patients died of shock, but what else could they do?

  35. Post #35
    Jabberwocky's Avatar
    June 2007
    2,753 Posts
    Alternative medicine is so broad that some must work. Herbal remedies can work as plants and animals have been shown to anabolise pharmacologically active compounds. Are they better than a controlled dosage in a pill with excipients which are designed to have no side effects while improving pharmacokinetics by virute of being "natural"? I would argue otherwise. Does holding a smooth rock in your hand impart mystical energies that cancel out the negative aura of illnesses? Unless that rock has penicillin moulds growing on it and you're rubbing it in an open wound, then probably not.

    Edited:

    Also, placebos also have side effects.

  36. Post #36
    Why so Sirius?
    SIRIUS's Avatar
    April 2009
    1,775 Posts
    i think alot of the more natural medicines (not homeopathy) do work, and alot better than the chemical crap we have today with 3 times the amount of side effects than it treats.

  37. Post #37
    Gold Member
    Kazumi's Avatar
    March 2006
    2,656 Posts
    i think alot of the more natural medicines (not homeopathy) do work, and alot better than the chemical crap we have today with 3 times the amount of side effects than it treats.
    I really don't believe any of the listed "alternative" medicine works. As someone mentioned above. The shit that actually works becomes proper medicine. That "chemical crap" we have today is the result of the natural things being refined. The biggest reason why we got side effects is because how the body distributes the medicine. Problem with your lungs? Take a pill and it will spread out through the whole body. The parts that reaches the lungs is the only part that helps the body. This is why nanite research is so important because that will lead us to the ability to distribute medicine extremely locally, virtually eliminating all side effects.
    To be fair, I am more comfortable to eat pills produced by a pharmaceutical company than these natural products. Because I know even less if it has been exposed to something I really don't want to have in my body, like pesticides. Not to forget that it might interact with the medicine we are given today.
    Many such products, including aloe vera, ginkgo biloba, ginseng, and green tea, can interact with conventional cardiovascular drugs and lead to serious adverse reactions
    http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2010/02/...e-effects.html

    Also, related to this topic. If anyone is interested, Dara O'Briain talked about this during his live performance. It can be watched here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMvMb90hem8

    As for stones. They're just stones. Remember back during the early 20th century when radium was considered a magic stone and they made a lot of shit out of it, like fluorescent candy. Just because of the pale light and faint heat it gave off. That didn't turn out very well.

  38. Post #38
    Gold Member
    Saber15's Avatar
    February 2005
    4,402 Posts
    i think alot of the more natural medicines (not homeopathy) do work, and alot better than the chemical crap we have today with 3 times the amount of side effects than it treats.
    Companies are required to list all side effects shown during testing. AFAIK, if one person out of 10,000 testing gets massive headaches from the medicine, then it must be listed as a "Possible side effect" on the side of the bottle.

  39. Post #39
    Gold Member
    Nikita's Avatar
    April 2005
    1,910 Posts
    They can cure my desire for a collection of pretty stones.

  40. Post #40
    Jabberwocky's Avatar
    June 2007
    2,753 Posts
    i think alot of the more natural medicines (not homeopathy) do work, and alot better than the chemical crap we have today with 3 times the amount of side effects than it treats.
    Many natural remedies only work because they have that "chemical crap" in them. And if herbal remedies seem to have less side effects then it's probably because the dosage is too low and/or it isn't getting into your system properly.