[ironman17]

That'd be kinda cool; having the world get "harder" the further you get out would be kinda cool. But also, what if the world got weirder the further you go out, with stranger and crazier biomes being generated as you get further away from the "calm heart of the world", until eventually it becomes like a Skyland void with islands floating in a twisting vortex at the edge of reality.

[Irish_Cereal]

ironman17 posted:

That'd be kinda cool; having the world get "harder" the further you get out would be kinda cool. But also, what if the world got weirder the further you go out, with stranger and crazier biomes being generated as you get further away from the "calm heart of the world", until eventually it becomes like a Skyland void with islands floating in a twisting vortex at the edge of reality.

We need to propose this. Or make a mod for this. I will learn Java for the sole purpose of this.

[ironman17]

Speaking of Java, I was just over in the Terraria thread asking how Minecraft would've been if it were coded in C++ instead of Java. (a bit offtopic but nonetheless somewhat relevant to the current flow of what was going on in that thread)

[Irish_Cereal]

ironman17 posted:

Speaking of Java, I was just over in the Terraria thread asking how Minecraft would've been if it were coded in C++ instead of Java. (a bit offtopic but nonetheless somewhat relevant to the current flow of what was going on in that thread)

If I recall correctly, in the infdev days there was a developer who was making a Minecraft clone in C++. It was much much faster and less CPU and RAM intensive.

[Rammlied]

Notch seems to be really good at making games in a short amount of time. This is obvious from his examples of ludum dare and shit. Java is also good with that because it's a simple language. However for projects that take months or years to make and take a lot of effort you're better off with a language that is more powerful and more efficient, and a programmer that isn't lazy as shit and doesn't only work when he's inspired.

[Cheshire_cat]

I was listening to the Phantom of the Opera soundtrack while rebuilding a Stronghold (I.E. replacing all the mossy and cracked bricks, putting in torches, etc) when I had a thought:
What if Jeb added ghosts to the Strongholds?

Preferably, they would be Metro 2033 style, as in faint silhouettes that drift about the Stronghold, softly whispering. Due to their transcendence, weapons of Diamond quality, as well as potions, would be the only effective means of combating them. Ghosts of Endermen, which would appear closer to the End Portal, would drop Ender Pearls, and Ghosts of Testificates would have random loot drops, such as picks, swords, etc.

When the Stronghold is properly lit, the Ghosts would cease to spawn, although during the nights, their whispers would still be heard across the complex occasionally...

[crackberry]

Cheshire_cat posted:

I was listening to the Phantom of the Opera soundtrack while rebuilding a Stronghold (I.E. replacing all the mossy and cracked bricks, putting in torches, etc) when I had a thought:
What if Jeb added ghosts to the Strongholds?

Preferably, they would be Metro 2033 style, as in faint silhouettes that drift about the Stronghold, softly whispering. Due to their transcendence, weapons of Diamond quality, as well as potions, would be the only effective means of combating them. Ghosts of Endermen, which would appear closer to the End Portal, would drop Ender Pearls, and Ghosts of Testificates would have random loot drops, such as picks, swords, etc.

When the Stronghold is properly lit, the Ghosts would cease to spawn, although during the nights, their whispers would still be heard across the complex occasionally...

That would work, but I don't know if the sound when properly lit would work.

[Cheshire_cat]

If Jeb implements conditional ambiance, then it could work.
Maybe the area one hundred blocks around the End Portal would generate the Ghost whispers in lieu of anything else.

[crackberry]

Cheshire_cat posted:

If Jeb implements conditional ambiance, then it could work.
Maybe the area one hundred blocks around the End Portal would generate the Ghost whispers in lieu of anything else.

That would be amazing. I wish, if you were making a city, citizen npcs will make a city sound in the area.

[Rammlied]

There should be testificates or PIGMEN in the jail cells in the strongholds.

[Aredbomb]

ironman17 posted:

I guess in lore they could justify it as the Testificates being immune to undead, whereas the "humans" weren't, except for maybe Steve.

But yes, the absence of living humans in the game is a bit concerning. Only the Strongholds and Mineshafts leave behind proof of prehabitation, and even then we have no statues depicting humans of any type, with Steve being the only living human around. Maybe the few remaining humans that survived the plague had to flee to The End to survive, and now they return to live in their original lands, though their nature being twisted by the outer darkness has made them... different, in many ways, and less suited to their ancestral dimension.

I was talking about the pigmen. It's possible to pass the testificates off as humans, even if their model is different. The Pigmen just reek of that "unfinished idea" stench that pollutes minecraft here and there. The zombie pigmen don't even fit the theme of the Nether all that well, they could've been imps or something, but instead it's this zombified version of a thing that has no evidence of it ever existing which doesn't really fit at all.

Honestly though its pretty obvious Mojang had an idea for villagers that they just HAD to put into the game immediately, without thinking about the fact that the game needs "normal" humans and pigmen to go along with their existing zombie counterparts. Impulsiveness seems to be a major fault for them, or at least Notch.

[endorphinsam]

ironman17 posted:

Also, perhaps if related mobs are bred (by related I mean being connected by family) too much, then the risk of yielding weaker offspring (and potential mutants) would become greater with each inbred generation, yielding low-quality items dropped by them and other bad things, which would be a discouragement for the current trend of inbreeding your livestock; which i've sadly practiced and should probably discontinue doing so, since continuing would further corrupt the gene pool of my cows, and they might end up turning into pale gibbering mutants if I carry on the way I am. (perhaps breeding the mis-bred mobs with "purer" natural mobs could reduce the level of "corruption" in the resultant offspring)

Inbred retardation is a myth. If the world was started with evolution, then should we all be considered inbred retards, and are we? If we were, then we all are, making it normal. As in it's either true and it's normal and doesn't affect anything (that we consider different) or it's just a myth. Google the subject yo.

Edited:

ironman17 posted:

Having actual corpses would be a neat touch; one could loot them instead of their contents being spilled (except for their XP which would logically drop).

However the issue with having many corpses in the world would be that an abundance of entities in the world could cause performance drops. But we could overcome that somehow.

That's easy. Make the corpses after 5 minutes actual parts of the map instead of them being entities. They become blocks when you leave and when you come back they turn into corpses again. Same with items. So they don't despawn. And I think if you "loot" them then after 5 minutes they would despawn as long as they had nothing in it.

[ironman17]

Cheshire_cat posted:

I had a thought: What if Jeb added ghosts to the Strongholds?

Preferably, they would be Metro 2033 style, as in faint silhouettes that drift about the Stronghold, softly whispering. Due to their transcendence, weapons of Diamond quality, as well as potions, would be the only effective means of combating them. Ghosts of Endermen, which would appear closer to the End Portal, would drop Ender Pearls, and Ghosts of Testificates would have random loot drops, such as picks, swords, etc.

I'd rather the ghosts be sort of "passive after-images", like you see the actions of the former inhabitants of the Stronghold, and the events that led to humanity's exodus and eventual return. Not everything should be something to kill; and Ghosts are pretty much dead anyways.

[Rammlied]

Inbred retardation is a myth. If the world was started with evolution, then should we all be considered inbred retards, and are we? If we were, then we all are, making it normal. As in it's either true and it's normal and doesn't affect anything (that we consider different) or it's just a myth. Google the subject yo.

You're pulling me a bit offtopic, but since we didn't start evolving into multiple celled organisms until there were billions or trillions of single celled organsims reproducing via splitting, the concept of inbreeding wasn't possible.

Edited:

Also, here's a decent idea, how about each block gets 3 different textures (maybe make three different terrain.png's) and make it so everytime a block is placed or generated it picks one of the textures out of the three, and all of the textures are designed to tile which eachother in every combination. That could take some work but I think it'd make the game look A LOT nicer.

[ElectricSquid]

Cross-posting from the chat thread:
We seriously need some work on the villagers... I mean, aside from the more ambitious plans for AI. Their breeding needs to be curbed because after an in-game week or two, they have reproduced so much that the village is more overcrowded than a tenement and the game becomes unplayable at dusk, when they all head indoors and mate.

I think that:
1. There should be a dynamic cap on villagers mating, so that if there's x amount of villagers within a certain radius, then they stop reproducing.
2. Villagers spawned from eggs should have randomized skins, so that you have a chance of spawning a blacksmith or a priest or w/e instead of just the normal brown ones.
3. If we can lead animals with wheat, perhaps we should be able to lead the villagers with something? Maybe something special that a leader would carry.

[ironman17]

#3 could probably be done using some kind of Gold Scepter, since gold has often been viewed as a rather royal metal.

Also, maybe the corpses could turn into a sort of "Tombstone" block or some sort of leather bag block that acts like a chest.

[SFC3]

the villagers "blacksmith" should actually be able to craft you weapons

also "knights" in villages with iron armor and swords

[Alien512]

How about maybye King Villagers? like in a little castle guarded by knights? And if you kill him you get to be king?

[Rammlied]

You might be able to befriend villagers by giving them a gift or talking to them, and then at that time you can see a name over their head and then ask them to follow you, which would make more sense than pushing a scepter in their face and them following you.

Edited:

After watching Etho's recent OOGE episode, I had an idea. If the default ground is increased, we could have a very rare giant chasm (almost like a biome) that spawns underground, with a huge space with magma on the floor and giant gravel stalagtites, and if you touch them the top explodes and it falls down.

[crackberry]

ElectricSquid posted:

Cross-posting from the chat thread:
We seriously need some work on the villagers... I mean, aside from the more ambitious plans for AI. Their breeding needs to be curbed because after an in-game week or two, they have reproduced so much that the village is more overcrowded than a tenement and the game becomes unplayable at dusk, when they all head indoors and mate.

I think that:
1. There should be a dynamic cap on villagers mating, so that if there's x amount of villagers within a certain radius, then they stop reproducing.
2. Villagers spawned from eggs should have randomized skins, so that you have a chance of spawning a blacksmith or a priest or w/e instead of just the normal brown ones.
3. If we can lead animals with wheat, perhaps we should be able to lead the villagers with something? Maybe something special that a leader would carry.

All of this seems good. I think that if it gets to a certain number, the village should keep on growing. If there is a couple hundred villagers, the towns should resemble that.

[Rammlied]

Took a while to type it out, but here it is. I wrote it for fun. I might send it to jeb or something.
There have been a few suggestions like this, but they have a few problems.
Before starting the big stuff, I'll introduce some concepts that will be used regularly and have been suggested before.

There are two kinds of unique loot. It can either be pre-made and only dropped in certain instances, or the effects of it can be random. The premade kind is pretty much every item in world of warcraft-it was designed, and then designed to be dropped by a certain creature/creatures. The random kind is usually used in roguelikes, more known ones like Torchlight, Diablo, etc (It's debateable to consider them roguelikes but I think they are, therefor they are). Basically, there is a base item. For the example we will say the base item is a Bone Shield. When it is dropped by a creature, it will then decide what the effects of it are. Now, a normal Bone Shield will basically just have defence points, and it will have 5-10 defence points. That's pretty much it. It could also be a Damaged Bone Shield. The damaged boneshield will have less of the effects of a normal one, and in minecraft's case may be missing some durability. This is usually considered trash to be thrown away or sold or whatever. Then, there can be a Greater Bone Shield. This one is considered magic, and will have a bonus effect similar to that of an enchantment. Let's say it is now a "Spiked Bone Shield" and will deal a small amount of damage whenever attacked.
We can mix these two kinds of loot, where bosses are specific monsters drop the designed unique loot, and then regular creatures just drop the randomised loot.

Now, I love this concept when used in games. However for minecraft's current case it faces a problem - When you're fighting the current monsters, and you have this unique loot, it ends up being increadibly underpowered and you'll eventually be able to one shot endermen. This is bad for obvious reasons.

I have a solution to this problem that will probably change the game a lot, or atleast the adventure aspect. (This is the 'big' part I was talking about earlier)

At this time, the spawn point will now always be 0,0. This makes everything a lot simpler, however it isn't needed. Since this kind of makes the compass obsolete, we could make the compass refer to N/S/E/W instead of spawnpoint, but that's somewhat irrelevant.

Now, as you go away from the 0,0 point (Which we'll refer to as 'haven') things will slowly progress to get more challenging. Monsters will slowly get buffed, but the loot will also be greater. We'll even nerf the loot you get at haven to be weaker to make this make a bit more sense - the arrows dropped at haven will be weaker and do less damage, the bones only turn to one bonemeal instead of three and can't be used to tame wolves, the rotten flesh hurts you instead of giving you hunger, etc. And as stated, as you go away from this point, monsters start dropping this loot a bit more commonly and the loot itself will have more bonuses. (Let's say ever 500 or 1000 blocks there is a new version of the base items, the default (or haven) loot has the "Lesser" prefix, like the "Lesser Flesh", and will progress to "Flesh", "Greater Flesh", etc. We could have it so as you go further the amount of improvement gets slower or whatever to save space. But this in itself isn't much, arrows are only so useful, so now we bring in the unique loot. Similar to how in the snapshot mobs drop tools, they will drop unique loot. In haven most of the loot is damaged loot, with rarely a regular item. As you go further the items itself get more powerful. Starting off with mere trash like "Ragged Leather Boots" or "Jagged Claymore" you start getting things like "Reinforced Chestplate" or "Sturdy Waraxe". (We're going to need some item sprites to go with this).

Now, that kind of solves the problem that was presented earlier with unique loot. However it's also kind of boring. What's all this useful for, anyway?

You probably saw it coming, but dungeons.

The concept for dungeons are pretty simple. You have a basic layout that is randomly generated in a mase/labrnth format, only not designed directly to confuse you (Sort of like strongholds, but not as stupid). Then, you have monsters. These can be relatively basic creatures, like "Imps" or "Skeletal Warriors", and they could probably have variations depending on the distance from haven, but that's mainly a detail because it's all just variables. These monsters don't despawn and stay in specific areas designed while generating the dungeon. They drop unique loot more often, and specifically are harder than normal mobs, and maybe they have abilities, like on aggro they will charge at you and send you flying. Then across the dungeons you have chests, also with the unique loot (Probably better loot), and then generic stuff like gold nuggets and junk. And then you place minibosses. Pretty basic, more health, more damage, and maybe some randomly placed abilities. Now, you could probably have a large group of designed unique loot, and he'll drop one of them, and it's generally better than most random loot.

For fun, we could have different kinds of dungeons depending on the biomes, like in swamps you could have spider caves, or in deserts you could have little underground tombs filled with pigmen, or whatever. Keep things interesting.

As you could of guessed, the dungeons get more and more intense as we go away from haven, as does the loot. Now we're getting somewhere, people can just sprawl dungeons all day for fun. But you're still not really there, it's a bit too repetative still. That's were bosses like the enderdragon come in.

The stronghold can just be a basic dungeon format, probably a bit harder, but still serve the same purpose as it origonally did, only now with more monsters and stuff, but the purpose of it is still a way to the End. In the end you have the enderdragon, however it's a lot harder, has more health, and will motherfucking kill you if you didn't bring your goddamn unique loot. Killing it will drop some serious shit, like that arcanite reaper you always wanted or whatever. That's fine an all, but that's just the beginning. There will be tons of these designed bosses spread across the world, like a giant nether worm that you need summon via making bate found in a nether fortress, or a giant bird that you get by getting flying boots and chasing it down somewhere.

[ironman17]

I like this quite a bit. The concept of hunting down these really hard bosses and getting their drops is a lot like a series of games from Japan called Monster Hunter, whereby you hunt down massive powerful creatures and make epic loot from their remains. It's allegedly pretty hardcore, but hasn't really been released much in the West in any meaningful fashion.

[pansarkurt]

Wouldnt it be cool if there was a ghost-like mob in minecraft?
It would be able to go through walls, and blow out torches with a wooshing sound.

Not quite sure how it would be defeated though, maybe it becomes visible in redstone/glowstone light?

I just want minecraft to be hard and scary again.

[Sickle]

endorphinsam posted:

Inbred retardation is a myth.

wat

Edited:

'Inbreeding is the reproduction from the mating of two genetically related parents. Inbreeding results in increased homozygosity, which can increase the chances of offspring being affected by recessive or deleterious traits. This generally leads to a decreased fitness of a population, which is called inbreeding depression.'

Edited:

*clears history*

[Eltro102]

killkill85 posted:

I know a p. much perfect way to have trinkets and accessories work:
If you have the trinket in your hotbar,they give effects.
No need for like 7 useless new armor slots coughaethermodcough, just have them being in your hotbar be enough.
There should be no craftable accessories whatsoever,they're all obtained from dungeons etc,usually broken(repairable by enchanting for 10 or so levels)and give rather mild effects(no anti-grav super jump invulnerability superspeed imgoddamninvincible shit coughaethermodcough).
For example,a Bracelet of Life,boosts your health regen from food to be noticeably quicker(not much though)or a Survivor's Necklace,saves you from a single normally fatal hit every 5 minutes(ie:if a creeper would normally kill you in one explosion,you would survive with half a heart but the necklace's durability would be gone and would regenerate after a few minutes,allowing another survival).

I know ive said this many times but everything (nearly) should be more "expensive" in minecraft, as it is right now once you've found diamond you have basically finished, and are pretty much unkillable. what would be nicer is this to do after you have found diamond, ie thing which are there basically because they are fun, like slime blocks, or super duper ultra mega jump boots or the rainbow arrow etc...

Edited:

Cheshire_cat posted:

I was listening to the Phantom of the Opera soundtrack while rebuilding a Stronghold (I.E. replacing all the mossy and cracked bricks, putting in torches, etc) when I had a thought:
What if Jeb added ghosts to the Strongholds?

Preferably, they would be Metro 2033 style, as in faint silhouettes that drift about the Stronghold, softly whispering. Due to their transcendence, weapons of Diamond quality, as well as potions, would be the only effective means of combating them. Ghosts of Endermen, which would appear closer to the End Portal, would drop Ender Pearls, and Ghosts of Testificates would have random loot drops, such as picks, swords, etc.

When the Stronghold is properly lit, the Ghosts would cease to spawn, although during the nights, their whispers would still be heard across the complex occasionally...

what would be better is that nothing can combat ghost, you have to wait for them to leave of their own accord (maybe you could feed them, care for them, be nice to them and then they might leave???)

[Ganerumo]

endorphinsam posted:

Inbred retardation is a myth.

No it's not.

Edited:

Anyway, a good idea would be to let us pick the paint we want instead of having to place one on a dice roll, which is painfully annoying when you want a specific picture.

[Rammlied]

Maybe when you place a painting it comes out as some default one, and right clicking it makes it turn into the next one through one (Not in a random line either, but like scrolling from one painting to another in a pre-made format)

[ElectricSquid]

endorphinsam posted:

Inbred retardation is a myth.

Charles II of Spain would like to disagree.

[Rammlied]

I think it'd be cool to have some vanity items that can only be accessed via creative mode just for fun, and maybe on servers admins can hand them out or whatever. Like, adminium armor and if you have a full set it renders you completely immune to all damage, or something.

[ironman17]

Vanity items could have their own slots, be worn over armour; it'd make it possible to be well-protected whilst looking like Indiana Jones, just like Terraria.

[Lolkork]

Why should they add vanity items? They should add harder enemies and stronger equipment to fight them with.

[ironman17]

Those would be welcomed as well, plus we seriously need rejiggered combat, make it better, make it feel more like fighting.

[Eltro102]

endorphinsam posted:

Inbred retardation is a myth.

youre proof for it

Edited:

Lolkork posted:

Why should they add vanity items? They should add harder enemies and stronger equipment to fight them with.

why shouldnt they

[Rammlied]

Vanity items are kind of cool, but somewhat useless items that people can have to show off. Like having an enderdragon egg on your porch.

You could have silk made from string, and then use silk to make silk cloths that looks pwetty.

[killkill85]

ironman17 posted:

Trinkets on the hotbar sound interesting, though they'd take up space for tools and other things. What about if you just have them in your inventory, like the Charms from Diablo 2: Lord of Destruction? It'd still take up space, but it'd still be a reasonable sacrifice, since taking up valuable hotbar space is a bit more restricting than just having the stuff in your inventory.

Whilst we're on the subject, what are your reasons for opposing the presence of extra armour/accessory slots, or crafting accessories in general? Also, even though you appear to disapprove, which would be more reasonable; a bunch of slots for specific types of accessory (Cloak, Gloves, Amulet, etc) like the Aether mod or other RPGs, or a bunch of non-specific slots that can hold any accessory like in Stalker and Terraria?

It would be better to have them on the hotbar so you can't just stuff yourself with all the trinkets ever and become invincible(there will probably be more inventory spots than trinkets),so to make them more balanced,they should only work in the hotbar so you have to spend your "hotbar points"(as a theoretical resource)efficiently.Resource management is fun!

Also,the reason why I dislike extra slots is because the inventory is really fine as it is currently.It just seems to put needless clutter,though maybe it's just me fearing change.A non-specific accessory slot would be nice,if there aren't too many(like three or so would be good).

[Rammlied]

It'd be cool if the character had a backpack on him, seeing how the character has a huge inventory and all.
Also, I'm not sure if I've said that before, but I'd like to see a quiver slot where you can put a number of quivers that can hold a different number of arrows (A leather quiver can hold 10-16, a Bone quiver which you find in dungeons holds 20-30, or a Black Quiver which you find in strongholds can hold 30-40, etc.), and you have to reload it manually when your quiver runs out. That'd balance out bows a bit more I think.

And if we were going to add more weapons, I think we could do with (In total) Spears, Swords, and Maces.
Spears have longer range, but slightly reduced damage and a longer cooldown. Swords have the shortest cooldown but have reduced damage, and maces do a large amount of damage but also have a large cooldown.

[assassin_Raptor]

Rammlied posted:

Spears have longer range, but slightly reduced damage and a longer cooldown. Swords have the shortest cooldown but have reduced damage, and maces do a large amount of damage but also have a large cooldown.

I like the backpacks and quiver idea, but weapons having cooldowns, what is this a MMO? I wouldn't mind a stamina bar kinda like in oblivion/skyrim. Holding down attack does a power attack draining more stamina that just a standard attack, no stamina means lower damage. Certain weapons use certain amounts of stamina, could also throw in shields that drain stamina when blocking. But I don't think weapons should have a cool down after using them.

[Rammlied]

What I mean is cooldown is like it takes a second before you can strike again. Otherwise you could just spam click a mace like you would a sword and do more damage.

[assassin_Raptor]

Like the time it takes to pull the mace back up to swing again, or bringing the spear back to thrust again. I think that would work, maybe have the animation accurately show when you can strike again.

[Rammlied]

We could have the swinging animation slowed down, so you know you can strike again when your mace is all the way back in normal position.