Before giving hard advice let me give you advice about advice, before forming your opinion step on the shoes of the person you're giving advice, weigh your experience and take into context everything you know about the situation, most of the advice i've seen on this thread and in the original LA section were simply people just trying to be 'right', instead of helping
Quoted from V2, thanks for lil_n00blett for gathering all this great info!
(i'll format this better in a few hours)Welcome to the place Facepunchers like yourself come to in order to solve their ~love~ problems (or just trying to figure out how to put together sentences in front of other humans)
Dating: The Basics
This is going to mostly be geared toward males, because that's mostly who comes through here.
I need a girlfriend :(
No, you don't. If you have that attitude, you don't know what it is that you want, and you'll probably get called out for it, too. You should focus on making yourself happy before you try to make someone else happy. That's what a relationship is, caring for another person and doing your best to make them happy, and it's hard to do that if you have plenty of your own problems. So figure yourself out before you get into dating; get some hobbies, develop as a person, make lots of friends, and romance will follow suit.
I like this girl--
Stop, stop right there. You like her? Ask her out.
But I've hardly spoken to her.
That doesn't matter. You don't need to become someone's best friend before you can take them on a date. You don't even need to become their friend. Going out with someone doesn't guarantee a relationship will follow, or even that you have to still like the person you took out. It's supposed to be about learning about the other person and deciding if you're interested enough to keep seeing them and take things further.
How do I ask her out?
Just get a short conversation started, make some small talk, get her name if you haven't already, and ask her, "hey, do you want to go out to X with me on Y?" It's important to be clear that you're going out, to make it less confusing. If you say "hang out," it's more likely to be taken as just friends, that sort of thing.
Don't set out to be cool. It sounds really cliche, but the key is to just be yourself. And also, it has a little bit to do with looking around you and not doing things that are socially really weird. It's not that difficult. The important things include being open to everyone around you; don't shut out one group because you think they're all just douchebags and sluts. Be open to talk to people like that and show you're a fun/funny person, and they'll see that. Give everybody a chance and find the people that you like to be around the most, and if you just talk to them enough, transitioning into hanging out with them on your free time should be easy enough.
You don't need to limit yourself to hanging out with your one group of friends that plays LoL together and hangs out on weekends for LAN parties. You can also have that group of friends you hang out with when you want to go to a party, that group of friends you have for when you want to run through town and act ridiculous, etc. You'll probably have one group that's your best friends, but you can be friends with lots of people. And it's a good feeling that, for example, if you're at lunch or something and your best friend's gone sick, you can easily just walk down a few tables to sit with one of the other groups that will welcome you because you're fun to be around.
Just be yourself and be confident. You can talk about anything with anyone.
Tips from Dark_Light on what it means to be "alpha" (it's just a term, don't freak out about idiots calling themselves alpha):
- Being ‘Alpha’, What It Means and Why It’s Important -
First off, let me clear something up. Being ‘alpha’ is not stupid, and striving to reflect alpha values is not either. However, going around and thinking “what I am doing makes me more alpha and therefore I am an alpha male” is obviously fucking retarded. To me, being alpha is just an easy way to describe the many characteristics which make up a generally attractive, independent and confident male. Forget the terminology and its connotations, all it means is having a strong core and consequently being able to interact well with both men and women. I first read about this whole concept of being alpha over two years ago and I have since never used it in conversation or even thought about it. I understood and internalized the ideas, and continually strived to improve my core values every day since. That’s all that it should be about, so let’s not get caught up on the semantics.
So why is it important? Allow me to generalize, but women are generally attracted to the qualities which an alpha male carries. They are confident, successful, and interesting. They know what they want and are firm in their efforts to get it. To reduce it to a science, it is an evolutionary efficient strategy to praise a leader. Why are ‘nice guys always coming last’ whilst the assholes and jerks seem to be the ones more successful with women? It is because with an asshole personality comes some of the qualities of an alpha male; he is self-centered, he has little regard for what others think of him, he does and says what he wants when he wants, he is unafraid of women, and so on. Inversely, your archetypal ‘nice guy’ (read: chump) displays behaviours and attitudes which girls generally find unattractive; he is needy and very available, he bends over backwards to appease her, he usually focuses on a single girl and puts her up on a pedestal, and so on. Now, you obviously don't want to be either of these things. You can be a nice guy without being a 'nice guy' and you can be confident and forward without being an asshole.
*Keep in mind, leadership is NOT dominance. A man who thinks he is the best man in the world is not going to learn from anybody. This is no competition where you have to try and ‘out-alpha’ other males around you. It is just as important to listen and learn from your peers and to respect the opinions of others. You'll find it very difficult to move forward in life if the only person you value is yourself.*
Now that we understand the importance of all of this in relation to attraction and relationships (although 'alpha' qualities will benefit all areas of your life), here is a short list of some of what I think are the most important things that should be aimed for:
1) You are all of the things mentioned in BDA's OP.
Don't get me wrong at all. I know a lot of people, BDA included, have this issue with being 'alpha' and the rest of it, but this post is in no way in spite of any of that. As I explained, to me it is just a term which unfortunately has gained quite a stigma and is easily associated with overly dominant, ego-inflated assholes. I of course do not agree with this definition and I definitely want to stress how important it is to be friendly, genuine and respectful to both yourself and everyone you interact with.
2) You lead and take charge.
The majority of people will respond favourably to a person that takes charge. You make the decisions, you lead your peers by example, you initiate interaction with women, you lead the conversations, you ask them out, you go for the kiss, you take them by the hand and lead them like a gentleman would, you are not afraid to escalate physically. You do not follow the crowd for the sake of it, you make decisions for yourself. Being assertive is important in many others areas of life. You set out to get what you want.
3) You do not seek approval.
You do things for yourself, not to impress this or that person. You don't buy her a drink or a gift only to please her, you don't say or do something because you think your peers will find it funny and think more of you. Inversely, you don't shy away from saying or doing things which you want to because you fear rejection or judgement from those around you. You are proud of your opinions but are mature enough to consider criticism. You are your own person, you do not need others to validate you to be confident. Your confidence comes from within. You are fucking awesome and you know it. You are the center of your own world.
4) You are non-reactive and outcome-independent
You don't chase after a specific outcome such as getting a number or a kiss, which saves you disappointment in case of failure. You are indifferent to the outcome and instead stay in the moment and enjoy the process. Everything you do is a learning experience, and you have fun along the way no matter what. You do not fear rejection. This leads in to you being non-reactive. You do not seek reactions from others and you do not respond to their reactions. You don't see a girl looking at you and immediately she likes you. You do not ever even wonder if a girl likes you or not before getting to know her, such information is irrelevant to you. You assume attraction and continue as you would usually. Inversely, you do not become depressed if a girl turns you down. You maintain your state and move on.
5) You are true to yourself and confident in being yourself.
You stick to who you are and never fake anything to make yourself appear to be something you are not. You do not hide your insecurities behind masks of fake confidence.You have your own inner values which define who you are and you are not afraid to be passionate in expressing these things. You know who you are and you aren't afraid to be that person.
6) You are always looking for ways to further yourself as a person.
You are constantly improving yourself. Mind (control of your thoughts and feelings), body (having a body you are proud of and can be comfortable in) and spirit (your passions, values, inner energies and other intangibles) are all as important as each other. They feed off of each other and you can't expect to have one of them healthy if another is lacking. You keep looking for lessons to learn and experiences to gain from. You accept the opinions of others as you understand that external perspectives can be beneficial. You want to live a happy and fulfilling life and you understand the importance of self-improvement in achieving this.
7) You don't give two shits about 'being alpha'.
You don't go around explicitly thinking you are an alpha male. You don't laugh at people and call them betas. You don't even think about trying to be 'alpha'. You have developed yourself to the point where you are naturally an interesting, confident and passionate individual which people want to know.
Evidently, a lot of these things tie into each other, and so it may seem like I'm repeating myself here and there but essentially it becomes this frame of beliefs which work off of each other. You're confident in being yourself which means you don't seek the approval of others which means you make decisions for yourself, and so on.
Anyway, please do make any comments or ask any questions that you may have and I'll do my best to elaborate or explain. I'm more than happy to hear conflicting opinions on anything I've mentioned as well.
Thanks for reading.
Some very useful information about the friend zone from Dark_Light:
- The Friend Zone, What It Is and How to Avoid/Escape It –
Typical scenario; shy, quiet, lonely dude meets a girl. They hit it off quickly and become very close. The guy thinks he’s finally met someone that wants to know him, he’s finally met a girl that he can connect with. He starts crushing on her, and not quite sure on how to deal with this, he starts doing everything he can to let the girl know how much he cares. But she doesn’t see it, she’s too busy chasing all the other guys. ‘Why does she like those guys and not me, I’ve been here this whole time and I’m so much better than them!’ Losing his patience, he finally cracks; he has to tell her how he feels.
“Aw… You’re just a really good friend, I love you like a brother…”
This is the friend zone, and this is something I think a lot of the guys posting here have experienced. I’ve been there, and I know there are others in this thread that have as well who have ended up getting the girl in question, so let me make it clear: It is possible to ‘get out’ of this situation. More on that later.
Clearly the best way to avoid the problem is to never get here in the first place. Here are a few tips to avoid developing this with a girl:
1) Understand and adapt all of the things mentioned in my last post:
You can get mad about me using the word ‘alpha’ all you want, it doesn’t change the fact that if you are an independent, confident, genuine and self-respecting individual, you are a LOT less likely to be seen as ‘just a friend’ by a girl, and you are also a lot less likely to develop such a deep crush on a single person.
2) Realize that there are many other girls available:
This situation usually comes about from a guy thinking he’s met the only girl that will ever like him. The guy is often longing for a relationship and so naturally thinks that he really likes her and that she is the best option. The truth is, there are plenty of other options available.
3) Avoid confessing your feelings:
There is really no reason to let a girl know how you feel about them until there is a clear mutual connection. All it does is make things awkward and puts the ball completely in her court. The only time this will work in your favour is if she also likes you, but most of the time it’s just going to make her even more reserved around you and everything you do around or with her is going to feel awkward. Seriously just don’t do this.
4) Don’t put her up on a pedestal:
Don't be so available for her, be more of a challenge. Don't do everything you can to please her, don't focus all of your energies on her alone. You need to treat every girl like you’re boyfriend-material, not just her. Don't agree with everything she says just because you like her. Don't be scared to disagree with her, you have your own opinions as well.
So, for those less fortunate and have already ended up in this predicament, it isn't completely hopeless. Yes, it's difficult, and your best bet would be to drop it and move on to other options, but it is possible to recover. Each situation is different but generally you want to be less available, and more of a 'challenge' for the girl.
What does this mean? Allow me to elaborate with the following tips on how to get out of the 'friend zone':
1) Make a conscious effort to improve yourself:
It is often the case with guys that end up in this problem that they are the timid, quiet type who have inevitably clung onto the first hint of female interest. Your absolute best bet on improving the situation is to first improve yourself. Again, I think my last post will be helpful in this area specifically, especially the 6th point on self-improvement. Even the superficial things such as hitting the gym and paying more attention to your appearance will have an effect on your self-confidence and how you carry yourself. Always remember, until you love yourself, don't expect to be able to have someone else love you, nor will it be easy to love anyone else. You should always come first.
2) Live your own life:
You have your own life to live, one that is centered around yourself and not her. You have other friends, you know other girls, you have your own hobbies and interests. You don't have to drop everything to answer at her every call. No, you don't have to fake anything or think this is some sort of game with her, just live your OWN life and let her miss you. She is not your first and only priority. If she texts/calls you, obviously be friendly, but just always appear busy, preoccupied, distracted etc. End conversations earlier than you used to, simply by saying you're busy/have something else to do/can't talk right now. Spend less time with her and focus your energies on yourself instead.
3) Be sexually confident:
One of the biggest reasons guys end up as 'just a friend' is because there is no sexual attraction from the girl. To avoid this, you need to express that you are comfortable with your sexuality. You aren't afraid to be physical with her, you aren't scared to touch her (no, this doens't meant groping her), and you aren't scared of her touching you either. Just start with light touches on her hands or her arms. Make your hugs intimate and genuine! You should also be flirting with her, don't be afraid to tease her or make jokes at her expense, of course all playfully. Just have fun with it!
4) Just fucking RELAX:
Just treat her like a friend. Don't let me confuse you here, but seriously what has the relationship been about up to this point? It's been about the guy being desperately in love with a girl that doesn't feel the same way. He hasn't been treating her at all like a friend. You don't kiss your friends' asses, you don't put up with them treating you like shit, you don't worry about annoying them and you don't shy away from teasing them. Just relax, regain your composure and be natural. Be yourself, not some continually pathetic attempt at impressing her. She's only going to be attracted to you if you're being YOU. Stop over-thinking everything and exist in the moment, not in your head. If you're on a date with her, listen to her stories, smile when you want to smile, laugh when you want to laugh, grab her hand when the moment feels right. Ideally you never even want to be asking, "does she like me?" A more important question should be, "do I like her?"
All in all, it's much easier to just avoid ending up in the friend zone, but once you get there it is possible to recover the situation. It's difficult, and consequently it would only be counter-intuitive if you put an excessive amount of effort into trying to save the situation, but one thing I preach often is the importance of self-improvement. There are always lessons to be learnt, so don't be afraid to let go and move on to different, new experiences, and who knows, she might just follow you anyway.