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Post #41
They can't force you to believe something. The least you could do is respect the fact that your parents love you, give you a place to live and eat, and don't come home drunk and beat you by going to the simple classes.
Its not wrong for them to attempt to pass down their values to you. You can take them or leave them.
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I don't think this thread will go well if you start a debate by saying "my parents". You should just state your case and the debate and not make it personal.
On a note, freedom of belief should be a basic right and it's a shame that it's not always the case.
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this pretty much happened to me, but my dad saw the bullshit in the catholic church in those classes and left the church right after me being confirmed.
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Being forced into anything is wrong. People got free choice for a reason, not so that you can be forced into believing in a god.
According to their bible Lucifer got cast down for not loving humans, I'm sure we would've joined him in life if we made god angry. If you believe in such things that is.
But whatever, it is wrong in my opinion.
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Go through with the classes and become an atheist sleeper agent on the inside and later sabotage Christian attempts at world domination.
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I know this is probably against what everybody else is saying, your morals etc, but why not just stick with it? It's not like it's going to harm you, it only takes a couple of hours out of your time, and it keeps your parents and family relations happy. The church is also a good way to meet new people and be part of the community.
If you don't want to do it, I fully understand, but you need to remember that you're living in your parents' house, they feed you etc, so at least just give them this.
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honestly the easiest way to go about this is to just play along with it if your heart's not in it
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My family is catholic and I went through all that church stuff to "become" a catholic when I was a kid, we went to church every weeks.
Despite that I ended up being an atheist in my youth and teenage years, now that I'm 20, I'm more of an agnostic atheist, I don't personally believe in god but I do not reject or completely deny the idea that there might be something (not someone as I really doubt if a god would actually exist that he'd be some bearded humanoid) of higher power out there, be it something similar to gravity or dark matter or what not.
On to the topic though, I don't think they should force you, I think people should have the choice to believe in what they believe in, which is why I have no respect for hardcore atheists who tries to disprove God to everything and everyone, it is their choice to believe in a higher power, to believe in X, to believe in Y.
Even if I do not personally believe in such things, I will never try and shoot down anyone's beliefs as it is theirs and only theirs.
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There should be a rule to not make threads whose titles could be summarized as "no."
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People are every day born into different kind of groups or neighborhoods, and Christianity isn't the worst of it.. But it is still huge, and that's concerning.
I wonder what day people will truly lose interest about God..
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Aside from actual brainwashing it's next to impossible to force someone to convert. You can force someone to pretend but that doesn't change anything. As an atheist, OP, you really have nothing to fear about lying in regards to your beliefs to keep shit away from the fan.
You shouldn't have to, and your parents actions here are morally reprehensible, but you can call them out on it later
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It's legal until you're 18, but it's wrong regardless.
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The question answers itself.
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off-topic:
Why do people just make stuff up about Satan? That's not in any Bible I know of.
Isaiah 14:12 says
12 How you have fallen from heaven,
morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!
13 You said in your heart,
“I will ascend to the heavens;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon.[a]
14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.”
15 But you are brought down to the realm of the dead,
to the depths of the pit
(The King James says "Lucifer, son of the morning" in verse 12). Even then, there is debate as to whether Isaiah was having a vision regarding something that happened, or was prophesying what would happen to the King of Babylon)
And that's pretty much all the Bible says about the fall of Lucifer. If it is about Satan's fall, then the reason was pride.
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Its simple. In college I was harassed by clubs on campus to attend their bible study meetings. So I would just pose as a christian and ask questions in such a way that made them question their faith but not give away that I was doing so. In a way I would say "I do trust God and his son Jesus but I do not trust man, How are we to trust the bible when it was written by men then revised and canonized by the catholic church who in its day was known for controversial insistent s."
See if they can answer that.
You should blast this song too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhsRCt2SAjM
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No, of course not. No way in hell would anyone force ME to convert to anything. I would tell them to go fuck themselves.
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I went through the same troubling scenario as a child and I was fortunate enough for my mom to have a midlife crisis and switch from extreme conservatism (seventh day adventism) to secular humanism during these past few years (as I have been attending college).
I harbor no hard feelings towards how she raised me because she is a completely different person now and I understand that she was trying to do her best while raising me (she's a true mother, she stayed at home just to take care and school me).
My fiance, on the other hand, has not had the same fortunate fate with her parents. They are still both conservative Mormons and I'm pretty sure they're going to stay that way.
I was scared I was going to be one of those horror stories where the free-thinker atheist is shunned by his family because of religion, but it turns out my mom was a free-thinker all along and just didn't realize it until half way into her adult life (due to being a preachers kid).
It's really fascinating to introspect your own life.
As to answer the question purposed in this thread, I shall answer it with another question.
Is being forced to kill all jews right?
No it isn't, the entire argument is based around authority.
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What he^ said. The question was not worth this thread.
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Just make it clear that even if they force you to convert, it's an empty gesture. You still won't believe in god.
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N...No.
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I think if you're being forced to convert against your will, you might want to actually talk at the people at the church or wherever you're being forced to take these confirmation classes.
Unless the local pastor/priest is unreasonable, I think they'd want to know if you're not interested in converting. They might even have a word with your parents. I'm not a christian, but I do speak with the local priest about stuff and even voice any concerns I have. But he's a pretty cool guy.
If they're pretty cool, then try talking to them.
Also, no one says you have to believe in it. You could at this as just something you can do to please your parents. Even if it doesn't mean much to you it might mean a lot to them, and even if it's just paying lip service the idea that you're confirmed might put their minds at ease.
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I'm not sure why they'd accept somebody onto their confirmation course who has no interest in Christianity.
Confirmation is something you go through when you're a commited Christian and you want a public display of this fact.
I have no idea what they teach at these classes, because I've never been to one, but I can't see them being appropriate for somebody with little to no interest.
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Take a note from us Pagans, forced conversion helps no one, just leave it alone.
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Well it's your parents, so there is nothing you can do about this.
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take a stand if you don't like it. you don't have to submit - you shouldn't submit.
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wow man thats exactly what happened to me, they didn't force me or anything, I just didn't want to make them sad so I pretended and now im a completely different person to how they view me.
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My mother tried to force religion on me, and I just went with it so that she would not be sad and now that I moved out I can have my own views. In response to this thread- just go with it, make your parents happy. Once you are 18 get out of the household and do what you want.
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The only thing that comes to my mind whenever I hear something like that is "lol"
One of those "lol"'s that you sometimes text to a friend but don't really mean Laughing out Loud. Its a lol with a :| face.
Its pretty wrong imo. My mother's side of the family has these same thoughts. They constantly blame everything wrong in my life on the fact that I don't accept christianity in my life, and if I did, I would get a girlfriend, and have a better life and bla bla bla.
Problem is, it all sounds like magic to me. But magic that doesn't works AT ALL.
It sounds like they do a spell on you and then you suddenly grow fond of the whole thing.
To me for example, it all looks like you will be worshiping nothing.
My parents used to force me to go to church till I told them to stop it last year. Now, they say that I will hopefully convert to christianity or accept christ like you said or whatever somewhere in life, and that before all this, I cared about it.
I never gave a fuck about any of it and it never influenced my life at all. They say not believing made my life worse, but ever since I stopped going to church and be a zombie there, my life hasn't got any worse. It even improved, because I have an extra hour to do whatever I want instead of rushing my ass to a cold church.
In short: it isn't legal, but it isn't ilegal either. I used to go to church and sunday school (on saturday) or whatever you call it but with time I stopped going. Now I don't give a fuck about anything about it.
If you do get involved in that, you could maybe just skip it and stuff.
Have a talk with your parents, knock a few things around, do whatever it takes.
Edited:
He can. Its him, not his parents beliefs and such.
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you can be whatever label you want.
i don't give a fuck. just speak positivism around those who you KNOW care.
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Just go ahead and deceive them into thinking you're a converted Christian. From experience, attending a Catholic school as a child further confirmed my Atheism since I was able to challenge the views of those around me without ever once being given any reason to believe in God.
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Hey if you really want to screw with them, go along with it all right up until the Confirmation service.
If it's anything like mine, then you'll be asked if you believe and trust in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. At this point I think it would be advisable to tell the truth, in front of the whole congregation, nice and loud.
If they allow you to be forced through without realising that you don't believe any of it, then I think they have it coming to them.
Seriously though, you should probably go to the classes and ask as many questions as you can. If you aren't satisfied with their answers, tell them so.
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I'm Christian, but even I think that is wrong to make someone believe something. That's why many Christions/other religious people annoy me - you can't just tell people what to think and/or condemn them just because you believe they are wrong. That said, I believe the same is true for how atheists act towards theists.
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The entire point of confirmation is to confirm your beliefs. You are making a public statement saying "this is what I believe, and I am taking up the responsibility of being a Christian person."
If your parents are forcing you, the entire sacrament is a sham and they obviously don't understand the whole point.
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of course it is.
although if forced I would probably go Satanist instead as a giant middle finger to whoever is trying to force me.
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I went to sunday school, it's not a big deal, I ended up knowing more about the religion than the kids who were actually religious which I found hilarious, my teacher gave me money for answering hard questions, and all I lost were a few hours of sleep every sunday morning.
Word of advice, don't go all "hurr I'm a rebel" just go along with it, it's not going to cause anything but trouble and you won't get the satisfaction you think you will.
you're a teenager, you'll forget all about it in a year anyway. This is also probably why they're "forcing you", kids say stupid shit and they might think it's just a phase. I know I said plenty of stupid shit. In a few years in all likelihood they'll respect your decision.
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Your parents are the kind of people that make my religion look bad.
:(
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Well when asked if you go in "Johnny, what made you make the choice to become a full christian?" then simply reply with no hate or anything "I didn't, my parents forced me into coming here because I told them I was atheist" and I bet that will get you out of there quicker than a 10 year old in a grave yard at midnight.
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It's wrong to be forced, but you're a minor under their charge. But it never hurts to learn more about how different people think, and even if they somehow are right you're covered for the apocalypse! I was confirmed long after I rejected the ideals just because of my fathers' family, and you do tend to get some material goodies out of it. Just bite your tongue and deal with it. It'd be way too much trouble to take legal action.
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I have a quote that I want all of you to say it out loud to who ever wants to forcefully implement their believes onto you.
Believe what you want to believe but NEVER FORCE YOUR BELIEFS ONTO OTHERS
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I'm Christian, and I think that this is wrong. Christianity - as I've been taught - is about faith; I don't think you'll have a whole lot of faith in something you've been forced into. People need to make their own decisions about their life.
