1. Post #121
    Gold Member
    theseltsamone's Avatar
    March 2010
    4,187 Posts
    oh god the amount of friendly fire

    but yeah imo Shogun 2 has the best battle mechanics in any TW game
    One time I had a 8 units of militia and managed to flank the enemy on both sides, since they only had 3 units and I wanted to have some fun with the battle, but I didn't take friendly fire into consideration, so once they were down to their last unit my militia started mowing each other down and then they all routed and I lost.
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  2. Post #122
    Gold Member
    sami-pso's Avatar
    June 2006
    4,759 Posts
    I wish N:TW Ai was slightly better when it comes to friendly fire. It's kinda stupid to have units in reserve that are shooting your own guys in their back, or line shooting skirmishers in their backs.
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  3. Post #123
    Gold Member
    kamikaze470's Avatar
    October 2008
    23,209 Posts
    I wish N:TW Ai was slightly better when it comes to friendly fire. It's kinda stupid to have units in reserve that are shooting your own guys in their back, or line shooting skirmishers in their backs.
    That's why you order them to hold fire until you know for sure they're out in range of friendly fire.
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  4. Post #124
    No such thing as overkill.
    catbarf's Avatar
    January 2007
    7,990 Posts
    I've never quite understood exactly how FF works in Napoleon. If a unit's right behind an ally, does it still inflict FF? What if they're overlapping?
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  5. Post #125
    Gold Member
    sami-pso's Avatar
    June 2006
    4,759 Posts
    That's why you order them to hold fire until you know for sure they're out in range of friendly fire.
    Yeah but sometime you want them to shoot over your first line because you're on a hill, but you're not sure if they will hit your first line.

    Besides, noone would shoot the line infront just because no order was given.

    Edited:

    I've never quite understood exactly how FF works in Napoleon. If a unit's right behind an ally, does it still inflict FF? What if they're overlapping?
    It's pretty simple. If a unit is in the direct line of fire of a friendly unit it will recieve friendly fire.
    Skirmishers are slightly different in that they have the magical ability to bot shoot their own in the back, but if you overlap 2 skirmisher units they too inflict friendly fire.
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  6. Post #126
    Gold Member
    theseltsamone's Avatar
    March 2010
    4,187 Posts
    So, what's in the FotS beta and how is it?
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  7. Post #127
    Gold Member
    Virtanen's Avatar
    March 2006
    3,358 Posts
    I've never quite understood exactly how FF works in Napoleon. If a unit's right behind an ally, does it still inflict FF? What if they're overlapping?
    careful positioning and checking from ground level are my top two hints

    I remember annihilating mughal armies that outnumbered mine by 3:1 because I could layer my fire on enemy charges by placing my line regiments to different heights on the slope of a tall hill
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  8. Post #128
    -nesto-'s Avatar
    September 2007
    3,864 Posts
    I like how diplomacy changed from Med2->Empire but sometimes its completely fucked. Turn 1(as Venice) I establish trade with Britain so I can build a powerful trade nation. Few turns later I see a massive British fleet of mainly Sixth Rates and a full army stack sailing past Sicily. Next turn the Brits land on the Western Greek shore where my puny vineyard city is. The British take it and demand 8000 gold for a Peace pact. The AI are also thieves and general assholes. The same playthrough I wanted my eastern front to be secure incase the Ottomans started expanding, so I set up an alliance with Austria since we were already trade partners. Austria counter offers adding a demand of 2900 gold and since I was making 3500+ profit a turn I agreed. The next turn, which was the one when the British fleet appeared near Sicily, Austria breaks the alliance and pockets an easy 2900. My nation didn't last long after that.
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  9. Post #129
    Gold Member
    thrawn2787's Avatar
    April 2007
    8,689 Posts
    So, what's in the FotS beta and how is it?
    NDA
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  10. Post #130
    SJW 4 lyfe
    DaysBefore's Avatar
    December 2009
    7,358 Posts
    I like how diplomacy changed from Med2->Empire but sometimes its completely fucked. Turn 1(as Venice) I establish trade with Britain so I can build a powerful trade nation. Few turns later I see a massive British fleet of mainly Sixth Rates and a full army stack sailing past Sicily. Next turn the Brits land on the Western Greek shore where my puny vineyard city is. The British take it and demand 8000 gold for a Peace pact. The AI are also thieves and general assholes. The same playthrough I wanted my eastern front to be secure incase the Ottomans started expanding, so I set up an alliance with Austria since we were already trade partners. Austria counter offers adding a demand of 2900 gold and since I was making 3500+ profit a turn I agreed. The next turn, which was the one when the British fleet appeared near Sicily, Austria breaks the alliance and pockets an easy 2900. My nation didn't last long after that.
    I found it a lot easier to build a trade nation in Medieval 2. I played English and first thin I did was abandon Caen and retreat to the British Isles. Then I just deployed diplomats to as many capitals as I could. Slowly I gathered 500,000 gold, built up a huge army and slowly worked my way across the continent. Anytime I couldn't just roll over an enemy I besieged their cities then demanded peace. It worked really well.

    ...Until I killed the Pope. Didn't last long after that.
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  11. Post #131
    Gold Member
    sami-pso's Avatar
    June 2006
    4,759 Posts
    I like how diplomacy changed from Med2->Empire but sometimes its completely fucked. Turn 1(as Venice) I establish trade with Britain so I can build a powerful trade nation. Few turns later I see a massive British fleet of mainly Sixth Rates and a full army stack sailing past Sicily. Next turn the Brits land on the Western Greek shore where my puny vineyard city is. The British take it and demand 8000 gold for a Peace pact. The AI are also thieves and general assholes. The same playthrough I wanted my eastern front to be secure incase the Ottomans started expanding, so I set up an alliance with Austria since we were already trade partners. Austria counter offers adding a demand of 2900 gold and since I was making 3500+ profit a turn I agreed. The next turn, which was the one when the British fleet appeared near Sicily, Austria breaks the alliance and pockets an easy 2900. My nation didn't last long after that.
    Sounds like my campaign as Holland in N:TW.
    After years of fighting i've gained the upper hand though, and dominate the high seas.
    Pretty much every nation hates me but they can't fight me because i earn 15000 ish from sea trade and they earn 0.
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  12. Post #132
    -nesto-'s Avatar
    September 2007
    3,864 Posts
    I found it a lot easier to build a trade nation in Medieval 2. I played English and first thin I did was abandon Caen and retreat to the British Isles. Then I just deployed diplomats to as many capitals as I could. Slowly I gathered 500,000 gold, built up a huge army and slowly worked my way across the continent. Anytime I couldn't just roll over an enemy I besieged their cities then demanded peace. It worked really well.

    ...Until I killed the Pope. Didn't last long after that.
    Trade was confusing in Med2. I seemed like the more nations I established trade with the more random my trade income would be. Like if I played Sicily and set up trade with the Venice, Papal States, Genoa, and the HRE; the second I set up a sea route all my land income would vanish. I would just end up sacking capitals and letting it rebel so I could sack it a few years later or ransom it back then sack again.

    Sounds like my campaign as Holland in N:TW.
    After years of fighting i've gained the upper hand though, and dominate the high seas.
    Pretty much every nation hates me but they can't fight me because i earn 15000 ish from sea trade and they earn 0.
    In Empire it's fairly hard to establish a formidable fleet if you aren't a major nation. Like my Maratha playthrough I could never make a fleet as the AI always shows up on the second turn and blockades the shit out of you. Ontop of that France declared war on me because I wouldn't trade land in India for land in South America. Then they raided the shipping lane off of Portugal killing all of my trade income.
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  13. Post #133
    Gold Member
    sami-pso's Avatar
    June 2006
    4,759 Posts
    Yeah i spent the first couple years getting blocked, but then they buggered off, started pirating earning shitloads of money and then campaigned to austria which is an enemy from the start of the game.

    It took me many years to build a fleet that could match the fleets of my enemies while also building and maintaining armies all while i only had 2 or 3 provinces.
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  14. Post #134
    Gold Member
    theseltsamone's Avatar
    March 2010
    4,187 Posts
    Yeah i spent the first couple years getting blocked, but then they buggered off, started pirating earning shitloads of money and then campaigned to austria which is an enemy from the start of the game.

    It took me many years to build a fleet that could match the fleets of my enemies while also building and maintaining armies all while i only had 2 or 3 provinces.
    Holland sucks because of the small amount of land you get. You can't go out and hate everybody while sustaining yourself through taxes and farming, you need to get everybody on your capitalist dick and get trade ships on the ivory coast and Indies quick or you'll be able to support fuck-all of an army.
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  15. Post #135
    SJW 4 lyfe
    DaysBefore's Avatar
    December 2009
    7,358 Posts
    Holland sucks because of the small amount of land you get. You can't go out and hate everybody while sustaining yourself through taxes and farming, you need to get everybody on your capitalist dick and get trade ships on the ivory coast and Indies quick or you'll be able to support fuck-all of an army.
    I always play England then get the Thirteen Colonies to join me by destroying the Iroquois. Usually ends well.
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  16. Post #136
    Gold Member
    theseltsamone's Avatar
    March 2010
    4,187 Posts
    I always play England then get the Thirteen Colonies to join me by destroying the Iroquois. Usually ends well.
    I always play England and get economically ass-raped by the French. Different play styles, I guess.
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  17. Post #137
    SJW 4 lyfe
    DaysBefore's Avatar
    December 2009
    7,358 Posts
    I always play England and get economically ass-raped by the French. Different play styles, I guess.
    Oh I invade France as soon as I can. Somehow I got Spain to help me out and they closed all the French trade routes while I swarmed Paris with Line Infantry and Cavalry.
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  18. Post #138
    Proudly supporting the JIDF
    Dennab
    July 2010
    22,111 Posts
    Whenever I play as a nation, I make a 20 strong trading fleet and send them off in 20 group stacks to trading spots.

    Generally this gets most to stay away from me.

    Also I take out the pirates as soon as possible, I fucking hate them.
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  19. Post #139
    Gold Member
    ewitwins's Avatar
    December 2009
    14,225 Posts
    Whenever I play as a nation, I make a 20 strong trading fleet and send them off in 20 group stacks to trading spots.

    Generally this gets most to stay away from me.

    Also I take out the pirates as soon as possible, I fucking hate them.
    [h2]FUCK[/h2] the pirates.
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  20. Post #140
    -nesto-'s Avatar
    September 2007
    3,864 Posts
    I love playing the pirates. You get zero technology(unless you somehow manage to capture a city using only melee units), zero trading, no diplomacy, but you start with 4-5 fleets with incredibly overpowered Galleons that faceroll every fleet for atleast 20-30 years. Fun camping the ivory coast and selling off captured fleets for 3-10k.
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  21. Post #141
    Gold Member
    Sector 7's Avatar
    May 2005
    3,173 Posts
    I like how diplomacy changed from Med2->Empire but sometimes its completely fucked. Turn 1(as Venice) I establish trade with Britain so I can build a powerful trade nation. Few turns later I see a massive British fleet of mainly Sixth Rates and a full army stack sailing past Sicily. Next turn the Brits land on the Western Greek shore where my puny vineyard city is. The British take it and demand 8000 gold for a Peace pact. The AI are also thieves and general assholes. The same playthrough I wanted my eastern front to be secure incase the Ottomans started expanding, so I set up an alliance with Austria since we were already trade partners. Austria counter offers adding a demand of 2900 gold and since I was making 3500+ profit a turn I agreed. The next turn, which was the one when the British fleet appeared near Sicily, Austria breaks the alliance and pockets an easy 2900. My nation didn't last long after that.
    The real problem with TW diplomacy is that there's no narrative.

    If you suddenly get invaded, the game should describe why - in real life, wars happen for a large variety of reasons, but in TW it's always "because you/they want to conquer territory."

    They should include more complicated interactions between countries - in the diplomacy screen, it should show you how their leader feels about you, what your population thinks of their population and vise versa, how geared up they are for war, etc etc.

    Something as simple as "Britain has declared war on you for trading with their enemies!" would go a LONG way towards making the games less frustrating. The civilization series already kind of does that.
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  22. Post #142
    Gold Member
    Killerjc's Avatar
    August 2008
    4,597 Posts
    europa unversalis 3 has a really cool casus belli system, where if you do something that warrants war, the enemy will be able to chose from a list of "casus belli" and then the war will be assume the name of the casus belli
    for example, if there's a war because one country's infamy is too high it will be X-Y Punitive War
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  23. Post #143
    -nesto-'s Avatar
    September 2007
    3,864 Posts
    The real problem with TW diplomacy is that there's no narrative.

    If you suddenly get invaded, the game should describe why - in real life, wars happen for a large variety of reasons, but in TW it's always "because you/they want to conquer territory."

    They should include more complicated interactions between countries - in the diplomacy screen, it should show you how their leader feels about you, what your population thinks of their population and vise versa, how geared up they are for war, etc etc.

    Something as simple as "Britain has declared war on you for trading with their enemies!" would go a LONG way towards making the games less frustrating. The civilization series already kind of does that.
    Ya I'd love to see diplomacy be a key factor other than I wont attack you, dont attack me k even if it is a battle simulator at its core. It gets incredibly frustrating when you are fighting a war on 2 fronts when Britain declares war because you wouldn't trade them West Prussia for fucking Jamaica last turn
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  24. Post #144
    Atlascore's Avatar
    June 2011
    8,795 Posts
    europa unversalis 3 has a really cool casus belli system, where if you do something that warrants war, the enemy will be able to chose from a list of "casus belli" and then the war will be assume the name of the casus belli
    for example, if there's a war because one country's infamy is too high it will be X-Y Punitive War
    Total War desperately needs a system like this.

    The campaign map is so boring sometimes, it's basically just a giant chess board where magically spawning armies kill each other and you use monopoly houses to generate income and build said armies.

    It really needs some depth.

    If they could somehow combine EU3's campaign with STW2's battle system I'd pay a thousand dollars for that shit.
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  25. Post #145
    Hidole555's Avatar
    July 2009
    4,681 Posts
    So, I just finished a Long campaign game as Spain in M2TW.

    France was fucking retarded. At the beginning of the game I asked them "Hey, wanna be allies?" and they were like "Fuck, no." Now admittedly, I can see where they're coming from since the way I united the Iberian peninsula was by Exterminating every single town I captured as a way to punish the Portuguese, Rebels, and Moors for their insolence in trying to resist the true King of Spain. Halfway through the game, France attacks Zaragosa with their king and... that's it. They just sent their king to attack. So after I killed him a few turns later, a second French king is sent alone to besiege Zaragosa.

    So now with two French kings in shallow graves outside the town walls, I'm pissed enough to send a reactionary force. They take Toulouse and end up killing a third French king who was inside the settlement. At this point, I expect them to be more open-minded to peace-talks, but they refuse a ceasefire, even when I offered them their castle back. After gathering a stack of troops lead by a decent general I send them north to wreak havoc and take some more settlements.

    When Angers fell the king death toll was now at 4 and with a menacing army with ballistas outside Paris I tried to sue for peace once more.

    "Vee vill never surrender!" was the response I got.

    Reluctantly, I laid waste to the French capital and the fifth French king died. France died with him as well, because it turned out he was the last noble alive for France. When he was thrown off his horse, Marseilles and Rennes became Rebel settlements and I was left with half of France in Spanish possession, which made the map look really ugly.

    I really didn't want to take over France. What I wanted to do was focus on Egypt and the Turks so I could have Jerusalem. But with my initial plan in tatters and the area-formerly-known-as-France at my fingertips, there was nothing stopping me from taking over the rest of Europe (mostly because they kept declaring WAR on me and getting excommunicated for it!)

    So, way to go France. You single-handedly caused the downfall of the independent nations of medieval Europe.
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  26. Post #146
    Gold Member
    sami-pso's Avatar
    June 2006
    4,759 Posts
    Holland sucks because of the small amount of land you get. You can't go out and hate everybody while sustaining yourself through taxes and farming, you need to get everybody on your capitalist dick and get trade ships on the ivory coast and Indies quick or you'll be able to support fuck-all of an army.
    Yeah. But right now i am the richest motherfucker in Europe and i get 16k a turn while having 5 armies fielded and 2 fleets.

    I have 2 years left to take 4 provinces. I think i'll be able to do this.
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  27. Post #147
    Gold Member
    kamikaze470's Avatar
    October 2008
    23,209 Posts
    Total War desperately needs a system like this.

    The campaign map is so boring sometimes, it's basically just a giant chess board where magically spawning armies kill each other and you use monopoly houses to generate income and build said armies.

    It really needs some depth.

    If they could somehow combine EU3's campaign with STW2's battle system I'd pay a thousand dollars for that shit.
    If only Paradox Interactive & Creative Assembly teamed up together.

    I'd sell off my home and unborn child for that gloriousness, broken beyond belief and riddled with bugs game.
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  28. Post #148
    Gold Member
    sami-pso's Avatar
    June 2006
    4,759 Posts
    Oh god no, even more rebellions then.
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  29. Post #149
    Proudly supporting the JIDF
    Dennab
    July 2010
    22,111 Posts
    Shogun 2 - Fall of the Samurai reveal:

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  30. Post #150
    Gold Member
    Bert the Turtle's Avatar
    October 2009
    1,002 Posts
    Going to pick up one of these games, what do you guys recommend? My friend suggested Empire but I'm not too sure.

    Edited:
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  31. Post #151
    Gold Member
    sami-pso's Avatar
    June 2006
    4,759 Posts
    Napoleon over Empire imo, although Empire does have a nice campaign map.
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  32. Post #152
    Hidole555's Avatar
    July 2009
    4,681 Posts
    Napoleon over Empire imo, although Empire does have a nice campaign map.
    Campaign map, shampain map.

    I felt like falling asleep when playing Empire. The "music" was so boring.

    IMO, the best way to jump into Total War is either Rome or Medieval 2.
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  33. Post #153
    Glod Menber
    Dennab
    January 2011
    3,249 Posts
    I'm going to hop into TW.

    Is SHOGUN 2 a good start?
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  34. Post #154
    ThatCrazyGmanV2's Avatar
    May 2011
    3,899 Posts
    Rome or Medieval 2

    Edited:

    Best games to start off with
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  35. Post #155
    fskman's Avatar
    November 2009
    2,042 Posts
    plus if you don't like it you're not out 50 bux
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  36. Post #156
    -nesto-'s Avatar
    September 2007
    3,864 Posts
    Med2 is the best to start off on. Rome and Shogun are pretty dated and may put you off to the series but they're great once you get the hang of how Total War games play out
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  37. Post #157

    March 2011
    402 Posts
    My laptop runs S2TW on the lowest settings like shite.

    Would you guys recommend ETW or NTW?
    I'm into pirates and non-turtle AI, by the way.
    I also liked Rome's vibrant cartoony campaign map graphics.
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  38. Post #158
    Gold Member
    Killerjc's Avatar
    August 2008
    4,597 Posts
    S2TW runs better than ETW and NTW fyi
    to anyone who disagrees, this isnt running it on super directx 9000, it's running it on all low.
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  39. Post #159

    March 2011
    402 Posts
    S2TW runs better than ETW and NTW fyi
    It's hopeless then. :<

    Can't you like, revert the shaders to an older version in ETW/NTW like how you could in M2TW to make the game run better?
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  40. Post #160
    ThatCrazyGmanV2's Avatar
    May 2011
    3,899 Posts
    I made rebels playable in Medieval 2, but now every rebel settlement has no buildings or troops, so I have 3 mailed knights going 3 different ways conquering 80% of Europe
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