1. Post #41
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    February 2007
    13,269 Posts
    oh


    so because a rapist doesn't see anything wrong with rape, it's morally permissible for him?

    Edited:

    anyone have any objections to this?
    Most of us are perfectly fine with eating meat since we see eating meat as a natural means of survival. Humans are omnivores, not herbivores or carnivores, we're adapted to eat both meat and vegetables. We don't think it's morally wrong to kill other animals and eating them, because plenty of other animals do the exact same thing, and we've been doing this throughout our entire history. Besides, since they're not as intellectually advanced beings they aren't remotely as emotionally affected by it as humans.

  2. Post #42
    Gold Member
    Robbobin's Avatar
    June 2007
    8,043 Posts
    I'm amazed that people even cite the depopulation of cows as an argument for the legitimacy of eating cows. Should we lock some humans away in a cage in the harshest conditions perceivable to ensure the survival of the human race? Or should we protect these human's ends and potentially let them die of natural causes.

  3. Post #43

    August 2011
    772 Posts
    There's vital nutrients and things in meat that your body needs to be healthy as well as have proper brain function, there's a reason we are omnivores. I had a friend whom had two great aunts or something along those lines, very very old family members anyway, same side of the family and everything, one was a vegetarian, the other just ate healthy. The vegetarian ended up dying before the other one and was subject to many many health problems while the other whom simply ate healthy is still alive today. Now you may think that's crazy, but diet has a whole world of play in what happens to us, your body has to have things just right to keep your immune system working well and all that. As well as studies show that your brain does not function at higher levels without the levels of protein that meat provides in less amounts of food. Being a vegetarian can lead you a healthy life but you'll live a much healthier one with some meat in there.

  4. Post #44
    Gold Member
    Meller Yeller's Avatar
    June 2010
    10,359 Posts
    I have a lot of vegetarian friends. They're fine except that the only place they ever want to eat is Taco Bell.

  5. Post #45

    August 2011
    772 Posts
    I'm amazed that people even cite the depopulation of cows as an argument for the legitimacy of eating cows. Should we lock some humans away in a cage in the harshest conditions perceivable to ensure the survival of the human race? Or should we protect these human's ends and potentially let them die of natural causes.
    Not to mention that the cow is a cross-breed that man created for the purpose of food. If we didn't care for cow's they'd die out anyway.

    EDIT:
    ninja'd!

  6. Post #46
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    February 2007
    13,269 Posts
    I'm amazed that people even cite the depopulation of cows as an argument for the legitimacy of eating cows. Should we lock some humans away in a cage in the harshest conditions perceivable to ensure the survival of the human race? Or should we protect these human's ends and potentially let them die of natural causes.
    Humans are far more intellectually advanced and would therefor be suffering a lot more than a cow or a pig raised to become food. Besides, they would be a lot harder to surveillance.

  7. Post #47
    Gold Member
    Meller Yeller's Avatar
    June 2010
    10,359 Posts
    Not to mention that the cow is a cross-breed that man created for the purpose of food. If we didn't care for cow's they'd die out anyway.

    EDIT:
    ninja'd!
    I want somebody to breed cows to be really small so I can keep one as a house pet.

  8. Post #48
    Gold Member
    squids_eye's Avatar
    July 2006
    5,784 Posts
    Like the Deer did! living out in the wild and being one with the ecosystem is just a plan for a swift and sound destruction!



    TheAmazingAtheist is not even credited amongst atheists
    Except deer have evolved differently, they are fast and have sharp senses, cows are big and pretty dumb. If we stopped now and let them all free, they wouldn't last a very long time.

  9. Post #49
    dogfood123's Avatar
    January 2012
    47 Posts
    There's vital nutrients and things in meat that your body needs to be healthy as well as have proper brain function, there's a reason we are omnivores. I had a friend whom had two great aunts or something along those lines, very very old family members anyway, same side of the family and everything, one was a vegetarian, the other just ate healthy. The vegetarian ended up dying before the other one and was subject to many many health problems while the other whom simply ate healthy is still alive today. Now you may think that's crazy, but diet has a whole world of play in what happens to us, your body has to have things just right to keep your immune system working well and all that. As well as studies show that your brain does not function at higher levels without the levels of protein that meat provides in less amounts of food. Being a vegetarian can lead you a healthy life but you'll live a much healthier one with some meat in there.

    Maybe the vegetarian aunt was just not eating correctly and eating a crappy vegetarian diet. I can bring up many stories about vegetarians that lived longer than meat-eaters because of their "correct eating habits" but it is not going to make any point because someone else can just pull out stories of people who ate meat and lived healthier and whatever.

    Also the protein argument was already proved to be a myth about 10 years ago everywhere. You can get the same amount of protein on a vegetarian diet that you get on a meat eating diet.

    I have a lot of vegetarian friends. They're fine except that the only place they ever want to eat is Taco Bell.
    Kinda laughed at this because my vegetarian friends always want to eat there too. Bean burritos :P

  10. Post #50
    !TROLLMAIL!'s Avatar
    January 2012
    141 Posts
    Idiots! They ar idiots!

  11. Post #51
    Gold Member
    Robbobin's Avatar
    June 2007
    8,043 Posts
    Most of us are perfectly fine with eating meat since we see eating meat as a natural means of survival. Humans are omnivores, not herbivores or carnivores, we're adapted to eat both meat and vegetables. We don't think it's morally wrong to kill other animals and eating them, because plenty of other animals do the exact same thing, and we've been doing this throughout our entire history. Besides, since they're not as intellectually advanced beings they aren't remotely as emotionally affected by it as humans.
    Let's say I live in a remote community where we all agree it's morally permissible to rape women. Just because rape is deemed moral by the community does it actually make it moral?

    As for the latter claim about animals not being intellectually advanced, I'd concede that point a little. But they're still fully equipped to feel intense pain, and it seems hugely speciesist to claim that our convenience is seriously of equal - or greater - moral importance than the intense suffering of an even comparatively stupid being.

  12. Post #52
    Gold Member
    squids_eye's Avatar
    July 2006
    5,784 Posts
    If cows, pigs, chickens and sheep don't want to be eaten, they shouldn't taste so damn good.

    Edited:

    Let's say I live in a remote community where we all agree it's morally permissible to rape women. Just because rape is deemed moral by the community does it actually make it moral?

    As for the latter claim about animals not being intellectually advanced, I'd concede that point a little. But they're still fully equipped to feel intense pain, and it seems hugely speciesist to claim that our convenience is seriously of equal - or greater - moral importance than the intense suffering of an even comparatively stupid being.
    Most slaughterhouses kill them as painlessly as possible, so I don't think it really comes into it.

  13. Post #53
    Gold Member
    Robbobin's Avatar
    June 2007
    8,043 Posts
    Humans are far more intellectually advanced and would therefor be suffering a lot more than a cow or a pig raised to become food. Besides, they would be a lot harder to surveillance.
    Oh don't worry, we'd only letting a small family of humans suffer. Compared to the ~1.3 billion cattle.

    More or less the vast majority of those cattle are experiencing a great level of suffering. Their combined suffering is seriously less morally valuable than our convenience?

  14. Post #54
    Gold Member
    Doneeh's Avatar
    August 2006
    4,726 Posts
    Has your family ever given her shit over her beliefs or do they support it or are they just neutral? Many veggies that I meet where I live have families that don't support their decision and ridicule them for it
    Nope, we all support her.

  15. Post #55
    Gold Member
    Robbobin's Avatar
    June 2007
    8,043 Posts
    Most slaughterhouses kill them as painlessly as possible, so I don't think it really comes into it.
    That's an empirical claim and I'm willing to bet that the majority, or at least a huge number, cares very little about the painlessness of their deaths. I've read numerous articles saying how much they disregard the suffering of animals but I'd have to investigate.

  16. Post #56
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    February 2007
    13,269 Posts
    Let's say I live in a remote community where we all agree it's morally permissible to rape women. Just because rape is deemed moral by the community does it actually make it moral?
    According to your moral standards, yes it would be permissible.
    According to everyone else, no it would not. That's morals for you, something with no real definition and no real rules.

    Societies morals come from what's best for the greater good.

    As for the latter claim about animals not being intellectually advanced, I'd concede that point a little. But they're still fully equipped to feel intense pain, and it seems hugely speciesist to claim that our convenience is seriously of equal - or greater - moral importance than the intense suffering of an even comparatively stupid being.
    If we kill them in the most humane way with the least amount of pain involved, for the sake of putting food on our plates, I think it's perfectly alright.

  17. Post #57
    dogfood123's Avatar
    January 2012
    47 Posts
    Most slaughterhouses kill them as painlessly as possible, so I don't think it really comes into it.
    Based on the videos of factory farms that I have seen I would have to say you are wrong on that one. I buy my chicken and meat from small farms that treat their animals in much better ways. I understand that many people cannot afford to buy from these farms, or just do not have access to them because they live in a city or some shit.

  18. Post #58
    Gold Member
    Robbobin's Avatar
    June 2007
    8,043 Posts
    According to your moral standards, yes it would be permissible.
    According to everyone else, no it would not. That's morals for you, something with no real definition and no real rules.

    Societies morals come from what's best for the greater good.
    Morality can't be based on moral norms and what's best for the greatest number of people at once. The two are incompatible because there could be a society where the it's a moral norm to routinely axe your left foot off on your 13th birthday which clearly isn't the best for the greatest number.

  19. Post #59
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    February 2007
    13,269 Posts
    Morality can't be based on moral norms and what's best for the greatest number of people at once. The two are incompatible because there could be a society where the it's a moral norm to routinely axe your left foot off on your 13th birthday which clearly isn't the best for the greatest number.
    Morality does not have a definition. So yes, it can be based on your own opinion or it can be based on what's best for the greater good.

  20. Post #60
    Gold Member
    Robbobin's Avatar
    June 2007
    8,043 Posts
    Morality does not have a definition. So yes, it can be based on your own opinion or it can be based on what's best for the greater good.
    It cannot possibly be two incompatible things at once.

    And if you believe morality can be anything you want, what's the fucking point in partaking in ethical discussion?

  21. Post #61
    Bassplaya7's Avatar
    January 2008
    1,499 Posts
    I've been a vegetarian since I was 5. I'm the only one in my family - when I was little, I realized that chicken and chickens were the same thing and thought it was gross to eat dead animal. 15 years later, here I am, still vegetarian. I'm healthy, I'm happy, and I don't push my views on people so I wish people would give me the same respect.

  22. Post #62
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    February 2007
    13,269 Posts
    It cannot possibly be two incompatible things at once.

    And if you believe morality can be anything you want, what's the fucking point in partaking in ethical discussion?
    I don't think it's morally wrong to eat animals. You think it's morally wrong to eat animals.
    Two completely different views on the same subject, that doesn't mean that only one of us is using the term correctly.

  23. Post #63
    Gold Member
    Robbobin's Avatar
    June 2007
    8,043 Posts
    I don't think it's morally wrong to eat animals. You think it's morally wrong to eat animals.
    Two completely different views on the same subject, that doesn't mean that only one of us is using the term correctly.
    That's because you're using a balls up retarded kind of morality pluralism which is philosophically useless.

  24. Post #64
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    February 2007
    13,269 Posts
    That's because you're using a balls up retarded kind of morality pluralism which is philosophically useless.
    Why start a debate on what's morally right and wrong if you're aware of how useless the term is then?

    Edited:

    "Morals" is basically just a fancy word for "emotional opinion".

  25. Post #65
    Gold Member
    Robbobin's Avatar
    June 2007
    8,043 Posts
    Why start a debate on what's morally right and wrong if you're aware of how useless the term is then?
    I'm not, you are. Pluralism is just a silly untenable position.

  26. Post #66
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    February 2007
    13,269 Posts
    Eh. This shit is getting too deep for me at the moment, let's just get back to discussing why eating animals is comparable to rape.

  27. Post #67
    Gold Member
    Robbobin's Avatar
    June 2007
    8,043 Posts
    Because it's an act of unprovoked physical violence.

  28. Post #68
    dogfood123's Avatar
    January 2012
    47 Posts
    I've been a vegetarian since I was 5. I'm the only one in my family - when I was little, I realized that chicken and chickens were the same thing and thought it was gross to eat dead animal. 15 years later, here I am, still vegetarian. I'm healthy, I'm happy, and I don't push my views on people so I wish people would give me the same respect.
    That's interesting. Has anyone ever made you feel uncomfortable because of your views? or bothered you about them

  29. Post #69
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    February 2007
    13,269 Posts
    Because it's an act of unprovoked physical violence.
    We don't eat rape victims for survival though.

  30. Post #70
    dogfood123's Avatar
    January 2012
    47 Posts
    We don't eat rape victims for survival though.

    Well, on farms, roosters gang-rape hens all the time. Seen it on my cousin's farm. Just sayin (not that it's relevant to the debate). (this is assuming you eat chickens lol)

  31. Post #71
    Gold Member
    Robbobin's Avatar
    June 2007
    8,043 Posts
    We don't eat rape victims for survival though.
    so?! that's literally nothing to do with the point I'm making. rape is immoral because it's an act of unprovoked physical violence. do you disagree?

  32. Post #72
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    February 2007
    13,269 Posts
    so?! that's literally nothing to do with the point I'm making. rape is immoral because it's an act of unprovoked physical violence. do you disagree?
    Nope. There's plenty more reasons why it's immoral.

  33. Post #73
    Gold Member
    Robbobin's Avatar
    June 2007
    8,043 Posts
    No there isn't. List some more reasons why it's immoral and I'll refute them.

  34. Post #74
    Gold Member
    Lhuth's Avatar
    July 2011
    237 Posts
    I have nothing against vegetarians, but on a practical level, dating a vegetarian sucks.

    She doesn't push it on me and is happy for me to eat as much/little meat as I want, but it makes eating out so much harder than it is with friends who aren't vegetarian. Most places really don't have extremely vegetarian friendly menus... maybe 2 or 3 options when the menu is about 30 strong. Add in a slight fussiness and it really makes going to restaurants a big planning operation.

  35. Post #75
    Gold Member
    Sgt Doom's Avatar
    March 2005
    20,329 Posts
    Couldn't give a rat's arse about it. It's their choice, i'd be the last one to give them shit for it. I find it rather unusual that such a surprising number of people seem to get offended by their mere existence, though there's quite a few vegetarians like that, as well. Guess it's just the usual human "my group is better than your group" thing.

  36. Post #76
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    February 2007
    13,269 Posts
    No there isn't. List some more reasons why it's immoral and I'll refute them.
    Well, it's emotionally traumatizing, and not a very good way of putting food on your plate (unless you're alright with eating babies).

    Edited:

    I'll argue with you later, I have to go to my class now.

  37. Post #77
    Gold Member
    xXDictatorXx's Avatar
    December 2007
    1,609 Posts
    I don't like the concept of eating meat (that an animal has to die for it) but I am no vegetarian. I simply don't have the willpower to give up so much of the food I love. I never will.

    Vegetarians are fine in my eyes as long as they don't start preaching to me. I would never make fun of someone for being vegetarian.

  38. Post #78
    Gold Member
    DuncanFrost's Avatar
    August 2007
    13,888 Posts
    I've been a vegetarian since I was a kid and I used to get a bit of shit because I'd never even tried meat. Eventually I tried some just to say I had and it was shit.

    I eat plenty fine without having to scarf down dead animals. I might need a couple of extra vitamin tablets and a lot of lentils but otherwise it's no different nutrition-wise from carnivores.

  39. Post #79
    Burgervich's Avatar
    July 2011
    2,355 Posts
    Don't you guys have any balls? How about standing up for your reasons to eat meat and not be afraid of having an argument?
    You're just looking for reasons to piss on vegetarians.
    Fine. Eat meat, it's much more healthier for you then being a vegan. Most animal kills these days are usually humane. Plus it's mother fucking delicious in my fucking burgers.

  40. Post #80
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    August 2005
    12,791 Posts
    I don't care about what anyone eats, as long as they don't bitch that I eat meat or whatever.

    And to those PETA assholes, fuck off. You might start to have a point when you stop killing the cats and dogs you pick up.