I don't see no problem being a vegetarian
But if you're going to try to shove it down my throat, I'll show you my massive stash of Slim Jims
I think horsemeat should be made more commonly available.
Not that I particularly like horsemeat, just that I don't particularly like horses.
Creating a new life is serious shit, to create something just for your own use with very little regard to its welfare(recent progress shows more regard to its welfare, though), It is a huge risk with some other creature.
Just put yourself in a position of a farmed creature with some 'alien' creature with superior power and intelligence, what do you think? (I know this is a bad tricky comparison)
"People always say you should enjoy the little things in life." Not if it comes at the harm of something else.
I guess I actually would not feel terrible if we actually were living in the Matrix though, and I'm sure some people would prefer it to reality.
I'm sort of indifferent with vegetarianism.
I personally think that cutting meat completely out of your diet can't be the best thing for you, but significantly cutting back meat consumption should definitely be done.
As for the reasons why people are vegetarians? I don't really care why someone does it.
I can respect the reasoning behind not wanting to for health reasons, and somewhat for economic reasons (like, the amount of grain that it takes to feed all the cattle could feed everyone for loadsa time, transportation/pollution, etc), but I feel like the few people that do it like that will never make a difference.
The reason I find silly: "We shouldn't eat the cute little *insert animal here*". That may be someone's reason, but I just think it's really a shit reason to be a vegetarian.
Take, for instance, the chicken. Last I heard, they only exist to become food in one form or another. There are no wild chickens, their sole purpose now is for consumption/making more chikens to consume/eggs/etc.
My two cents that no one actually cares about.
I don't view the need for any species to survive particually very credible, it doesn't sound like we are doing cows any huge favour in that context. If i had to explain how i felt about it, it would be in too deep correlation of my views regarding life perception, where to harm is to create as a brief terminology. Further, people can't accept the idea of something not existing they always think existance is better than non existance and won't let things die gracefully (emotional attachments to things, needs, Windows XP, life etc.).
The system to me seems provocatively stimulated, manipulatively exhausted, painfully plenty and will be dragged along with humanity until the very end of our own existance.
I don't want meat production at all. You take an animal and hold the responsibility for it to live you are looking after its welfare within the limits of our own welfare. Why do we 300x grain a cow and 300x gallons of water for 2 years of a cows maximum 20 year life span if we know better alternatives. We are creating the animal to be welfaired. Let us stop call 020 0402485 and do something about it now!
I was just merely stating if it was our intention to do the best for the species then we wouldn't put them in the position they are now. We would let em' die naturally like the rest at the expense of something that you may object to, that we're acquiring out of it. Just unforunate that humanity persists in living with this approach. Above all the facts have been stated and i don't know what else to say on the subject.
Simski "because humans have a different level of sentience. A human knows the situation it is in, and even if living with good standards it can still dislike living in captivity. Animals do not worry in the same way as humans."
How can you be sure that a animal, caged tightly, is not upset with that condition, it is a risk in my opinion that you are causing harm, when you could so easily avoid the risk.
Simski "We have human level intelligence and sentience, therefor being in the same situation of animals would be greatly interpreted by humans. If animals had human level intelligence and sentience, they would have human level rights."
I don't see how intelligence is relevant, whether a creature is rolling around in the mud or reading shakespear, i don't see the relevance, we treat retards, humans with inferior intelligence with dignity don't we?
I personally don't eat meat and I consume dairy rarely when it makes social situations more convienient. I try not to bring it up or make a big deal out of it with people because that seems very douchey, but people bring it up with me more than I do with them (You could say they shove their meat eating down my throat in some sense).
However it does have potential to be healthier, but if you plain cut out meat you're not going to improve too much if you eat the same unhealthy shit that just excludes meat.
I could also go off about inhumane factory farms, but I don't know a whole lot about it besides obvious things most people know about. The only thing I can reasonably say in my position is that animals shouldn't be kept in cages or have chemical/hormone intake to speed up the aging process, but like I said I don't know a whole lot about so I can't say much.
Continuation of previous post-
My auntie has a cat that has been conditioned indoors. It fell out of a window one evening and to the sound of a cat in severe distress, shaken and wide-eyed, it's fear for the unkown really put this into perspective for me. We are talking about that caged dog who doesn't leave it's cage. I think what we can learn here is that like any animal they can recognize its comforts and respond in a natural manner (move away from the burning light) and its pretty scary to think having denied its sense of comfort, hunger, favour not to be in pain, wants and affection we are causing it harm in that effect.
When we can grow meat in-vitro vegetarianism will become obsolete.
Thing is, being vegetarian is actually the best thing you could do for the planet - It's just that I could never do it.
I don't care about vegans, but they shouldn't go around "EATING COW IS BAD" because it's a matter of opinions. That's why vegans get such bad reputation.
If you are talking about humans being more aware i don't see that as a big deal, If dog broke its leg and a human broke its leg, the human could understand that a bone broke beneath his skin and what he has to do to fix it, the dog may not be aware of what the fuck is going on but they both are feeling the same intense negative sensation.
There are 7.3 Million Americans who are vegetarians, and 22.8 million Americans who follow a inclined diet, do you really think are has no effect at all, I mean we can do the math if we need to, just figure out how many vegetarians it takes to prevent one cow from being brought into that condition, maybe my understanding of economics is lacking but if you decrease the demand the supply should eventually decrease, even if it was not I would not still boycott them because I think they are wrong.
I'd be intrested to know your opinion on life simski just out of curiosity. Is it following general theory of athiesm or do you have your own view to share, coinciding with that.
I'm firstly and foremost, completely non-spiritual. I don't believe in anything paranormal, not god, not an afterlife, not souls, not destiny, not ghosts, not even luck.
My morals are mostly based on Epicureanism and general logical conclusions that I've made.
I don't believe life has any true purpose, I don't believe anything exists for a reason, I believe that death is just nonexistence without consciousness. I am however not a nihilist, because I believe that we only have only life and the best reason to not die is because you enjoy living. We should treat others well, not because we will be punished by god or the afterlife, but because we should only expect to be treated well by others if we treat them well in return.
Also, risk of what? Being happy? If we all ate solely for relief of hunger we would be eating tasteless bread packed full of vitamins and other shit we need to survive, life would be fucking miserable.
Mental discomfort from lack of freedom is questionable how serious it is, but i'm positive we are not the only species who hate being caged.
I believe that we as humans are built to ingest both meat and plant products. Ethically, we have made the consumption of meat to be associated with mass farms and animal suffering, this causes people to label meat as immoral. Ultimately as far as dietary and provisionary aspects go, the old farm life with a cow to each family was best. We are far away from what nature prescribes for us. At least then we were close.
I'm ok with vegans and vegetarians, as long as they don't push their beliefs down my throat. My sister's a vegan and she's one of the more level headed people I know, but she does make the occasional quip about how meat is disgusting and all that, I just ignore them though.
I do believe that raising animals in mass to be slaughtered is wrong though. It's much more reasonable to just stop the unneeded suffering. Meat is useful but we really don't need that much in our diets and it has tons of toxins in it. We can survive without meat.
Either way, there is nothing that says I have to think of every species as equal to mine as an Epicurean. Who the fuck but Buddhists and PETA does that anyway? I think of what's best for myself, and for humanity. I enjoy life, and I enjoy it with a nice big juicy steak and a glass of milk.
And how would you convince people to stop buying meat? How would you stop people from producing meat? How would you compensate the people producing meat? How would you stop a growing demand for meat? How would you prevent drastic actions to get meat by the people wanting meat?
There is not an inch of me that thinks that it would not end in absolute disaster.
Well i never said anything about making meat illegal, i'd hope everyone would do it just out of empathy, but i'm not sure how to answer that.
We should rather be looking into removing our requirements of animals for the growth of meat. More production friendly methods like lab-grown alternatives. The meat would never become sentient, it would never grow any recognition of suffering (shit, is there any evidence animals in the current system understand they are suffering? Because if there isn't, they aren't).
What a lot of hardcore vegetarians/ vegans make a mistake of doing is projecting themselves onto the animals, which just doesn't work as, shock horror! Animals aren't human and don't think or understand anything near to the capacity we do. The conditions we keep them in are getting steadily better, but that is pushing the price of meat up (thanks for that, we totally need that in this economic climate!). There will never be this ideal "frolicking in the fields" method of farming. But at the same time, using animals for meat isn't some kind of hell for the animal, they don't get slowly killed by some sadistic ass-holes who enjoy their pain. They are kept relatively well, fed properly, and diseases are usually eradicated as fast as humanly possible.
People aren't going to stop eating meat just because you can dig up some images and articles of the worst meat farming incidents.
I could care less what they can comprehend, I know they can feel intrinsic discomforts such as I(maybe the sensation itself isn't EXACTLY the same but they are most likely both negative).
Do you have any evidence for your claims, I'm not just talking about factory farms in America. Diseases eradicated, such as the one recently in South Korea where they had to bury a quantity of pigs alive. I know it was necessary to keep it from spreading but if we weren't so caught up in the consumption of meat their shitty lives would of never came to be. Is there any evidence that they understand they are suffering, that is irrelevant if they are in constant negative mental states of discomfort of varying levels, that is suffering, they don't need to understand it, they just have to feel it to know it sucks.
I mean go check out Walmarts suppliers Seaboard, or various others, they keep them in tiny cages they cut off their balls shortly after birth and their tails, it is so obvious they are in constant discomfort in their tiny cages. Oh but i wouldn't want to link this evidence though or i'd be finding scarce videos and images of these matters, yeah this one took me hours to find i was on page 108 on google.
That a side i'm sure there are farms which actually give two shits about their products welfare, I have no doubt of that, that is a much better option i would advocate you to buy from, go look up nice local farms and such, go visit them even to ensure their validity.
I could not have chicken pies as a vegetarian though, and god knows it's one of the best thing my mom has ever put on a plate.
Although I admit, blueberry pie is very awesome.
Pie in general is awesome.
Not shellfish pie though... yuck
'...steadily getting better' so i guess there is a recognized incentive to do the best for the animal somewhere but i don't believe you are looking in the right direction
 '...understanding capacity' - but miss capacity to feel as the point here
To sum up, if i am going to raise a family and kill them at some point in their short lived future, just before i inbred them and i kept doing this for years and years. Using the knowledge we've developed from our own concious experiences, we can work out it isn't really going well for that family is it. We instigate to stop the sufferage of a repetitive dying process (Many die in what can die once). We know personally how exposed to such to the extent of how miserable life can seriously get and there are many complex circumstancial, physical disablements, mental states that leads us to a discomfortable life. That we would rather it not happen at all or let the chance of it happening at all.
How is there no reasonable alternative i do not know how you people come to this conclusion..