1. Post #121
    I make sexist and racist jokes all the time yet,i still support the feminist movement and the rights of blacks.
    znk666's Avatar
    July 2010
    5,535 Posts
    It has also brought communities together, raised and destroyed nations. Wether you like or not , religion is not a positive nor negative force. Without it the world today would be totally different
    A rapist rapes 50 people each year but he donates to charity once in a while.
    That makes him neutral,correct?
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  2. Post #122
    Gold Member
    VenomousBeetle's Avatar
    January 2010
    6,218 Posts
    A rapist rapes 50 people each year but he donates to charity once in a while.
    That makes him neutral,correct?
    Where did this come from?

    Edit:

    I haven't fully read the thread yet but that's the dumbest point I've seen in it.
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  3. Post #123
    Gold Member
    Cone's Avatar
    August 2011
    19,020 Posts
    A rapist rapes 50 people each year but he donates to charity once in a while.
    That makes him neutral,correct?
    Except for that to make sense the whole of Christianity would have to be a single person. Obviously this is not the case.

    I know a Christian who is the meanest bitch you'll ever meet. Does this mean her husband, another Christian and the nicest man I've ever had the fortune of knowing, is also an incredibly mean person simply for this tenuous link?

    For that to make sense then you'd also be a facist, because Hitler ate food. The link's just as shoddy.
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  4. Post #124
    Gold Member
    Lol-Nade's Avatar
    September 2008
    3,740 Posts
    Don't hate the game, hate the players.
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  5. Post #125
    Gold Member
    Echidna666's Avatar
    April 2005
    4,842 Posts
    I think everyone should be able to believe what they want. I've never really experience the whole 'shoving it down our throats' thing. The closest would be being spoken to by some missionairies on the way home from university. They asked if I was religious at all and I just told them I was an atheist and that was it.

    My friend is pretty strict christian, and although she believe that certain people are going to hell (me being one of them), it doesn't bother me. She isn't shoving her religion down my throat, it just kind of bothers me that her believing some of her friends are going to hell actually made her cry.

    I only really come across religion on the internet on here, and there's one main thing pissing me off at the moment. In an interview or something, someone might say 'Thank god blahblahblah'. Then in come a load of atheists "OMG SHUT UP GOD HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT FOR FUCK SAKE STOP SHOVING YOUR RELIGION DOWN MY THROAT"

    Shut the fuck up.

    This is probably a ridiculous post but oh well.
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  6. Post #126
    DJK
    Gold Member
    DJK's Avatar
    June 2011
    1,764 Posts
    I believe in God, but i don't take the bible seriously or believe in creationism. 9/10 religious people I know do not take the stories from the Bible/Qu'ran/ other religious texts seriously. As for the argument that religion causes violence, it is usually not the religion that does this, but peoples perception of the religion.
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  7. Post #127
    Lilyo's Avatar
    October 2011
    2,338 Posts
    12,000,000 people in the United States still believe in some form of Creationism, regardless of the label you want to slap on it... To say that religion does not help spread ignorance is completely ridiculous.
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  8. Post #128
    Gold Member
    Lordgeorge16's Avatar
    May 2010
    9,068 Posts
    I think the bashing of religion could use some toning-down on Facepunch. It makes me reluctant to be more open about my Pagan beliefs, despite the fact that most of the hate is directed towards monotheistic religions, like Christianity.
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  9. Post #129
    DJK
    Gold Member
    DJK's Avatar
    June 2011
    1,764 Posts
    I'm not saying that religion doesn't spread ignorance, but it's the people who perceive the texts as promoting ignorance and that the ignorance as right and just that are at fault. I will say however that there a few passages in religious books that say very dumb and ignorant shit, but what do you expect from people who lived 2000 years ago or whatever. Religious texts are definitely not to be taken literally in my opinion. Also, I don't live in the United States, so I never encounter anyone who is stupid enough to blatantly deny humans evolved.
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  10. Post #130
    MKH90's Avatar
    February 2009
    224 Posts
    Of course you are too hard on religion. You just try to find cons with religion and you don't see the obvious pros. Religion does for instance give people a sense of fellowship and structure. Religion is also the source of each society's moral. For example, Christianity is the source of much of of the western societies' moral. You shall not steal, lie etc. Another interesting thing is that we in Sweden (I'm a Swede) have a strong work-spirit from the Lutheran moral.
    Every point in the quote can be related to basic humanity instead of religion. Religion does give people a sense of belonging (the fellowship thing quoted), sure, but so do many, many, many other things too. Ethics and laws? The evolution of human thinking and the birth of legal systems, which, by the way, did not stem from religious sources.

    Attributing a whole country's productivity to a specific category of Christianity, not even to Christianity, let alone religion in general? Now that's just being an asshole to all the non-Lutheran people in Sweden.

    Disclaimer: I'm not trying to be all high and mighty here. I respect people who are religious, despite being an atheist. What I don't respect, however, are statements which portray pros that are utter and complete bullshit.
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  11. Post #131
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    June 2009
    6,496 Posts
    science + religion isn't impossible

    obviously we evolved from god knows what and the big bang happened, but science tells us mass and energy can't be created or destroyed, so every particle of every substance in the entire universe has existed eternally

    assuming that's true then why is it unreasonable to believe there's a divine creator that's always existed? someone or something that is beyond physical limits?
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  12. Post #132
    Lilyo's Avatar
    October 2011
    2,338 Posts
    That's not right at all^

    The current leading theory of how the big bang came about is that there were equal amounts of matter and anti-matter in the initial phase of the big bang and that there was no such thing as space or time before the actual big bang. Equal amounts of anti matter and matter would = 0, or nothing, and not nothing as in empty space or a vacuum, but nothing as in non existent (which is a bit hard for our brains to comprehend)

    Either way, to simply jump to the conclusion that god has to have caused it therefor god exist is completely absurd and just demonstrates how eager religion is to take advantage of ignorance and lack of knowledge. Science will always progress and continue to improve upon our understanding of the universe while religion seems to be content enough with just screaming "god" to everything we dont know an answer to yet.
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  13. Post #133
    Gold Member
    CorporalCupCake's Avatar
    October 2010
    600 Posts
    While I don't believe in God or Christianity as a religion, I accept it as a vital part of our Christian society and the backbone of morality here. I get irritated when bigoted Christian in the Deep South bicker about gays being satanic and all that though.
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  14. Post #134
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    June 2009
    6,496 Posts
    That's not right at all^

    The current leading theory of how the big bang came about is that there were equal amounts of matter and anti-matter in the initial phase of the big bang and that there was no such thing as space or time before the actual big bang. Equal amounts of anti matter and matter would = 0, or nothing, and not nothing as in empty space or a vacuum, but nothing as in non existent (which is a bit hard for our brains to comprehend)

    Either way, to simply jump to the conclusion that god has to have caused it therefor god exist is completely absurd and just demonstrates how eager religion is to take advantage of ignorance and lack of knowledge. Science will always progress and continue to improve upon our understanding of the universe while religion seems to be content enough with just screaming "god" to everything we dont know an answer to yet.
    I've always had the big bang explained to me that all matter and energy was condensed into a space the size of a pinprick and it just exploded outward, but even going on what you're telling me, every ounce of mass has existed since before time, correct? something else existing for longer than time itself isn't very far-fetched, especially if it's an all-powerful ethereal being
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  15. Post #135
    CoolKingKaso's Avatar
    March 2010
    5,179 Posts
    I thought that the Bible was full of metaphors? Isn't it written in some form of poetry?
    It's written in a way where numerous people can interpret it differently.
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  16. Post #136
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    June 2009
    6,496 Posts
    It's written in a way where numerous people can interpret it differently.
    It was written for people alive 2000 years ago with plenty of references to 'current' events, people, places...

    Not only do you have to think about double meanings and research the history of the bible, you need to remember that the majority of it is parable and shouldn't be interpreted literally.
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  17. Post #137
    imasillypiggy's Avatar
    December 2009
    8,851 Posts
    A lot of threads devolve into random flaming of Creationism
    I see nothing wrong with this since most of the time the thread involves Creationism trying to be taught in school or something similar. Sometimes it comes out of no where but usually it actually is on topic.
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  18. Post #138
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    February 2007
    13,269 Posts
    dexter season 5 has a good point of view towards religion

    as long as the person is happy and fulfilled they can believe whatever the fuck they want

    Edited:



    thats not the religion though thats the churches
    How is it the churches and not religion?
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  19. Post #139
    Gold Member
    Cone's Avatar
    August 2011
    19,020 Posts
    How is it the churches and not religion?
    Basically, belief is a powerful thing. As with any powerful thing, people want to manipulate it really really badly to get people to think what they want.

    So I may have a copy of the Bible that says gay people are the scourge of humanity, and people may listen to me, but that doesn't mean the actual bible said that.

    Plus, when I have to clarify points in the Bible for people who don't understand them, I am basically telling them my interpetation of what I have read and saying that's what the Bible meant to say. This would defeat the purpose of the Bible, as it is meant to be able to be interpreted into whatever the reader wants it to be.

    Basically, this means everything evil that has ever been backed up by the Bible is just evil people justifying what they have done with what they thought they saw. It's like looking into a mirror and seeing what you want to see - and for that reason, the only thing we can blame all these terrible things on is the people themselves, who are crazy enough to follow through on all things they thought they saw in the Bible.

    Those people are psychopaths to begin with. All they want is a vent for all the things they want to do. If it weren't the Bible, it would be anything else you can think of.
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  20. Post #140
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    February 2007
    13,269 Posts
    Basically, belief is a powerful thing. As with any powerful thing, people want to manipulate it really really badly to get people to think what they want.

    So I may have a copy of the Bible that says gay people are the scourge of humanity, and people may listen to me, but that doesn't mean the actual bible said that.

    Plus, when I have to clarify points in the Bible for people who don't understand them, I am basically telling them my interpetation of what I have read and saying that's what the Bible meant to say. This would defeat the purpose of the Bible, as it is meant to be able to be interpreted into whatever the reader wants it to be.

    Basically, this means everything evil that has ever been backed up by the Bible is just evil people justifying what they have done with what they thought they saw. It's like looking into a mirror and seeing what you want to see - and for that reason, the only thing we can blame all these terrible things on is the people themselves, who are crazy enough to follow through on all things they thought they saw in the Bible.

    Those people are psychopaths to begin with. All they want is a vent for all the things they want to do. If it weren't the Bible, it would be anything else you can think of.
    Doesn't change the fact that the Bible and other religions still have plenty of things they consider immoral for no good reasons and people belonging to these religions collectively try to impose these standards on the government. It also doesn't change how it's highly manipulative to teach a child about religion, since they have no properly developed critical thinking and their own opinions.
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  21. Post #141
    Gold Member
    The Aussie's Avatar
    May 2010
    3,842 Posts
    I'm semi religious. Agnostic, but i still go to church on account of my family. Some people here have the attitude that being religious makes you a nutjob. Even when i was Catholic i firmly believed in evolution. Some people seem to forget that religion doesn't cause you to lose your mind, and become a shit spewing dickhead like Santorum. It's just a different way of living, it's like being homosexual except it's a choice. (I feel like i'm treading in no-mans land with that analogy, i don't want to insult anyone)
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  22. Post #142
    My friend bought me this title because its incredibly annoying.
    aaro1450's Avatar
    February 2010
    846 Posts
    I'm not religious and I am good friends with alot of people from alot of different religions, I have no problem with them or their religions. The part I dislike is the people who use religion as a guise to achieve their own ends and the more ignorant people that spend every waking minute trying to disprove science and every other religion.

    I was tempted not to post here, as I can go on for a while about religion, but I shall end it there.
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  23. Post #143
    Why so Sirius?
    SIRIUS's Avatar
    April 2009
    1,802 Posts
    we are too soft on religon
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  24. Post #144
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    June 2009
    6,496 Posts
    we are too soft on religon
    we are too soft on mlp
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  25. Post #145
    Tuba Player Extraordinaire
    Funcoot's Avatar
    January 2006
    3,592 Posts
    Regardless, those things were done in the name of God because they people carrying out the atrocities were essentially brainwashed by their religion into believing it was morally correct to do what they did. Religion was used as an excuse then and sadly religion is still accepted in modern day as an excuse for acts that would otherwise be punishable without a second thought.
    Actually, the Crusades were not justified by scripture in any way. It went 100% against Christian scripture.

    Back in the middle ages, most of the church priests couldn't even read latin, which is what the bible was printed in. It was ignorance that caused the Crusades. Ignorance of the people who being mislead by evil men that were not of God. Sure they did it in God's name, but it wasn't justified at all. God would have been 100% against the Crusades.

    It was done in God's name like I'm about to go eat Chickfila in God's name...

    Those men skewed religion and used it to their advantage the same way Hitler did.
    Edited:

    Some people seem to forget that religion doesn't cause you to lose your mind, and become a shit spewing dickhead like Santorum.
    Nope. It's those damned sweater-vests!
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  26. Post #146
    Gold Member
    Lol-Nade's Avatar
    September 2008
    3,740 Posts
    we are too soft on mlp
    I don't see how that relates to the debate at all.
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  27. Post #147
    Why so Sirius?
    SIRIUS's Avatar
    April 2009
    1,802 Posts
    I don't see how that relates to the debate at all.
    it doesn't, he thinks he's funny... he's not
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  28. Post #148
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    June 2009
    6,496 Posts
    I don't see how that relates to the debate at all.
    it doesn't, he thinks he's funny... he's not
    Sure it does. People go out of their way, derailing threads for the sake of ad hominem almost every time religion or my little pony is brought up. I know you've gotten shit just for having an mlp avatar, haven't you, sirius? Surely you've at least seen someone else with an mlp avatar post in a thread about something else with a post about something else and suddenly the discussion is all about how bronies are all fags and should commit mass suicide?

    Point is, we're too hard on both and need to stop stirring up shit when shit doesn't need to be stirred.
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  29. Post #149
    Why so Sirius?
    SIRIUS's Avatar
    April 2009
    1,802 Posts
    Sure it does. People go out of their way, derailing threads for the sake of ad hominem almost every time religion or my little pony is brought up. I know you've gotten shit just for having an mlp avatar, haven't you, sirius? Surely you've at least seen someone else with an mlp avatar post in a thread about something else with a post about something else and suddenly the discussion is all about how bronies are all fags and should commit mass suicide?

    Point is, we're too hard on both and need to stop stirring up shit when shit doesn't need to be stirred.
    mlp "fags" don't cause wars, hate crimes, mass ignorance, rape.

    Edited:

    then demand respect
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  30. Post #150
    Ladowerf's Avatar
    March 2010
    793 Posts
    tbh ateists irl pretty much always flaunt their beliefs, asking me what i believe first, then proceeding to bash me

    Edited:

    so the answer is yes
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  31. Post #151
    Gold Member
    Cone's Avatar
    August 2011
    19,020 Posts
    mlp "fags" don't cause wars, hate crimes, mass ignorance, rape.

    Edited:

    then demand respect
    Neither do individual Christians. Or at least, ones that you or I would be caught talking to.

    That's the point he's trying to make; people are far too quick to generalize. You and they are one and the same in this regard.
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  32. Post #152
    imasillypiggy's Avatar
    December 2009
    8,851 Posts
    tbh ateists irl pretty much always flaunt their beliefs, asking me what i believe first, then proceeding to bash me

    Edited:

    so the answer is yes
    "A person I know in real life is a jerk and an atheist." "That must mean all atheists are jerks."

    There are so many wrong things with that. Funny since this thread is about not generalizing.
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  33. Post #153
    El Creador123's Avatar
    February 2012
    4 Posts
    Man FUCK religion. It is used to control the masses and there is no proof that god exists man. Religion is used for peasants who were not able to reason between their son and a stalk of corn. So they invented it to control them and put them in fear of a "superior" being called god. Most of the stuff the bible even says is either contradictory or false.
    And in response to the teenager thing, many teenagers nowadays are able to reason much more and have their own voice. They have the ability to "speak against the man" and they are not afraid to, as you may have been 30 years ago. Schools teach students to use reason, which you may not have in the past so how bout you go fuck yourself and learn how to use your logic that "god(nonexistant)" gave to you. BITCH.
    A lot of atheists (usually teenagers) seem to be very harsh on people who are religious. Seriously, get the fuck over it and respect their beliefs. If you do that, then your beliefs will probably be respected too. These militant atheists seem to be far worse than what they make out religious people to be. Tolerance and respect is the best way to go for society, because then we won't have extremist religious people wanting to harm others over their beliefs, and extremist atheists wanting to pick fights with every religious person they come across.

    I respect the beliefs of others, regardless of whether they are atheists, christians, buddhists or whatever else their beliefs are. I consider myself agnostic because I don't believe at this stage we can prove the existence or lack of existence of a greater being, and I just really don't care much for that. I won't push my beliefs on to others, and I won't think of others negatively based on their beliefs. And for all I know, your beliefs are as valid as mine. Just don't push your beliefs onto myself or others.
    Edited:

    Why should something be respected if it is not true and could possibly be a lie? All that we can tell for sure about religion is that it "steals" our money by forcing us to donate or else god will not love us. Look at the mormon church i believe it is approximately 10% of your income must go to the church. What a waste of money!
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  34. Post #154
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    June 2009
    6,496 Posts
    mlp "fags" don't cause wars, hate crimes, mass ignorance, rape.

    Edited:

    then demand respect
    well since we're generalizing millions of people I guess all mlp fans are 40-year-old basement-dwelling virgin weeaboos right? same way that every single christian on earth thinks and acts just like the members of the westboro baptist church and every german is a nazi

    Edited:

    Saying religion itself as a whole causes everything you're saying it does is like saying the principles of Communism directly cause people to start revolutions and attack their neighboring countries, or that being anti-SOPA automatically means that you pirate almost everything, upload torrents, and seed them. That is a godawful line of logic.
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  35. Post #155
    Gold Member
    Lol-Nade's Avatar
    September 2008
    3,740 Posts
    Sure it does. People go out of their way, derailing threads for the sake of ad hominem almost every time religion or my little pony is brought up. I know you've gotten shit just for having an mlp avatar, haven't you, sirius? Surely you've at least seen someone else with an mlp avatar post in a thread about something else with a post about something else and suddenly the discussion is all about how bronies are all fags and should commit mass suicide?

    Point is, we're too hard on both and need to stop stirring up shit when shit doesn't need to be stirred.
    Pretty sure you just:

    A. Brought up an unrelated subject for the sole purpose of "stirring shit up"
    or
    B. Made a straw man fallacy in an attempt to turn the debate towards a different topic

    Either way, it's a bad argument.
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  36. Post #156
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    June 2009
    6,496 Posts
    Since when is an analogy a straw man fallacy? Or are you trying out fancy new words you don't fully understand?
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  37. Post #157
    Gold Member
    Lol-Nade's Avatar
    September 2008
    3,740 Posts
    Since when is an analogy a straw man fallacy? Or are you trying out fancy new words you don't fully understand?
    Here, I'll wiki it for you.

    A straw man is a component of an argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.

    Basically a "Oh yes, one is bad, but check it out, this other one is just as bad or worse" even though MLP isn't even related to this subject.
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  38. Post #158
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    June 2009
    6,496 Posts
    Religion and MLP are both attacked harshly on Facepunch. Users will go out of their way to bring the spotlight onto these subjects in the middle of an unrelated thread. Attacks are almost never necessary but always overdone.

    Let me explain this to you: This is a debate thread over whether or not Facepunchers are too harsh on religion. In an argument with a presumably atheist MLP fan, I used an analogy that would help him understand the other side of the argument. I took something familiar to him and compared it to the subject we're discussing. If he thought rationally he would realize that MLP fans are attacked in ways almost identical to how religious users are attacked on these forums. It's really not a very hard concept to grasp, analogy is a literary device commonly used in arguments.
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  39. Post #159
    Gold Member
    Kman1's Avatar
    April 2009
    3,866 Posts
    As Angy Atheist knows, its really annoying being preached at. Yet, whenever i go on Reddit or other sites, its consistently atheists baahing theists saying they believe in "fairy tales." Yet, any mature person can accept anothers' beliefs, and its childish to think otherwise. The basis of any morality, religious or not, is to treat others as they want themselves treated.
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  40. Post #160
    imasillypiggy's Avatar
    December 2009
    8,851 Posts
    It's written in a way where numerous people can interpret it differently.
    Thats true but I don't think it was originally made to be that way. Since originally it was only the priests who told you the "proper" way to believe.
    Since when is an analogy a straw man fallacy? Or are you trying out fancy new words you don't fully understand?
    Lets not turn this into an ad hominem slinging contest.
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