1. Post #41
    Gold Member
    ThePuska's Avatar
    October 2005
    3,450 Posts
    I feel that religion is just a manifestation of human ignorance, like all superstition. No religion I know of is, or attempts to be, rational - there are rational people who happen to be religious, and there are people who attempt to justify (sometimes very convincingly) religious beliefs with logical reasoning. But religious beliefs are not founded on reality.

    As such I have little more respect for religions than I have for other senseless things.
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  2. Post #42
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    January 2012
    1,310 Posts
    Everyone's entitled to thier own opinion on matters.
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  3. Post #43
    Are you implying that there is a problem with religion itself, other than they way it occasionally affects people's actions?
    Yes.

    Virtually every major religion stresses that believing things without any sort of reasonable grounds to, just because you were told, is a virtue, which I think is both morally and factually wrong.
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  4. Post #44
    And christianity does just that, Doubting Thomas is not a particularly positive character.
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  5. Post #45
    Gold Member
    Cone's Avatar
    August 2011
    19,168 Posts
    Yes.

    Virtually every major religion stresses that believing things without any sort of reasonable grounds to, just because you were told, is a virtue, which I think is both morally and factually wrong.
    That's often a problem with the people spreading the religion not wanting to be questioned rather than the religion itself. It just happens that people are very willing to go along with such a thing even when it opposes what they were told in the first place, which unfortunately is pretty much impossible to get rid of in people.
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  6. Post #46
    What is the point of religion if faith is not a virtue?

    Edited:

    Why is it necessary anymore if that's the case?
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  7. Post #47
    Gold Member
    Patriarch's Avatar
    June 2010
    1,507 Posts
    No.
    Religion is an evil, monstrous thing that needs to be done away as soon as possible. It teaches people that what is probably false is true, creates divisions in society, and implores violence.
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  8. Post #48
    Actually a cool guy
    David29's Avatar
    June 2005
    3,029 Posts
    No.
    Religion is an evil, monstrous thing that needs to be done away as soon as possible. It teaches people that what is probably false is true, creates divisions in society, and implores violence.
    Damn, your right. Especially with all those recent Bhuddist terrorist attacks recently.

    Religion is responsible for countless of atrocities throughout history. Just because it did some good stuff too doesn't mean shit, and it's above and beyond everyones right to bash it.
    Yes, what a great argument. Attack the current generation based on what the previous generations have done. That's totally fair, right?
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  9. Post #49
    Gold Member
    Patriarch's Avatar
    June 2010
    1,507 Posts
    Yes, what a great argument. Attack the current generation based on what the previous generations have done. That's totally fair, right?
    9/11, rape of children, homophobia, just to name a few current achievements.
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  10. Post #50
    I make sexist and racist jokes all the time yet,i still support the feminist movement and the rights of blacks.
    znk666's Avatar
    July 2010
    5,535 Posts
    Religion deserves all the bashing and criticism it gets,and even more.
    Just look at the past,all it has accomplished is suffering,death,disrespect and promoted ignorance and bigotry,slowed down scientific progress and violently silenced those who criticized religion or doubted it.
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  11. Post #51
    Actually a cool guy
    David29's Avatar
    June 2005
    3,029 Posts
    9/11, rape of children, homophobia, just to name a few current achievements.
    I'm CoE.
    9/11 was terrible.
    Child rape is horrific.
    I have no problem with gays.

    Religion deserves all the bashing and criticism it gets,and even more.
    Just look at the past,all it has accomplished is suffering,death,disrespect and promoted ignorance and bigotry,slowed down scientific progress and violently silenced those who criticized religion or doubted it.
    You, alongside some others on this forum, are painting religion as a whole with the same brush. There were a handful of religions that were like this, but not all.
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  12. Post #52
    Gold Member
    Patriarch's Avatar
    June 2010
    1,507 Posts
    I'm CoE.
    9/11 was terrible.
    Child rape is horrific.
    I have no problem with gays.
    I'll assume that CoE is some abriviation for a religion.
    9/11 was acted out by those under the delusion that they would be rewarded in some other life.
    The child rape was hidden by the church for a long period of time.
    Many people in high positions of religious authority are homophobic, and the bible itself says to stone them.
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  13. Post #53
    Actually a cool guy
    David29's Avatar
    June 2005
    3,029 Posts
    I'll assume that CoE is some abriviation for a religion.
    9/11 was acted out by those under the delusion that they would be rewarded in some other life.
    The child rape was hidden by the church for a long period of time.
    Many people in high positions of religious authority are homophobic, and the bible itself says to stone them.
    And the president of the USA invaded Iraq illegally, therefore all the USA supported it.
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  14. Post #54
    I make sexist and racist jokes all the time yet,i still support the feminist movement and the rights of blacks.
    znk666's Avatar
    July 2010
    5,535 Posts


    You, alongside some others on this forum, are painting religion as a whole with the same brush. There were a handful of religions that were like this, but not all.
    Excluding spiritual Buddhism,and maybe Hinduism they were pretty much all like this.
    And some still are.
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  15. Post #55
    LCBADs's Avatar
    March 2009
    1,775 Posts
    That's often a problem with the people spreading the religion not wanting to be questioned rather than the religion itself. It just happens that people are very willing to go along with such a thing even when it opposes what they were told in the first place, which unfortunately is pretty much impossible to get rid of in people.
    But it is a problem with the religion itself. If it's in the damn holy book, then it's part of the religion. I don't think religion makes you hate. I don't think an LGBT-tolerant atheist converts to christianity and becomes a homophobe just because the holy book says to. But for people who are already homophobes, what it does is that it reinforces and intensifies those negative attitudes by giving them divine justification. That's a problem.
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  16. Post #56
    I make sexist and racist jokes all the time yet,i still support the feminist movement and the rights of blacks.
    znk666's Avatar
    July 2010
    5,535 Posts
    And the president of the USA invaded Iraq illegally, therefore all the USA supported it.
    What he referred to was that Islam itself motivated the terrorists to do it.
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  17. Post #57
    Gold Member

    May 2005
    2,268 Posts
    "Stop believing what I don't want you to believe."
    No, more like "here's what you believe, and this is what's wrong with it". Everyone should be entitled to their beliefs, no matter how batshit, as long as they keep their beliefs confined to themselves and not affecting others.

    If you took the time to actually talk to the average Christian, Jew or Muslim, you'd be hard-pressed to find one who seriously thought Noah's Ark occurred. Belief and knowledge are two very different things, and someone can, in fact, hold two conflicting ideas because of it.
    I don't feel that's true at all. There are many people who take the bible literally.

    An ABC News poll released Sunday found that 61 percent of Americans believe the account of creation in the Bible’s book of Genesis is “literally true” rather than a story meant as a “lesson.”

    Sixty percent believe in the story of Noah’s ark and a global flood, while 64 percent agree that Moses parted the Red Sea to save fleeing Jews from their Egyptian captors.
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...061r/?page=all

    Here's an entire section of a "Christian science" website dedicated to actually trying to explain noahs ark as if it really happened.

    http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-...opic/noahs-ark

    It's like Santa Claus (actually it's exactly like Santa Claus.) While children generally take it literally, adults realize Santa himself isn't real, but that doesn't mean you can't believe he's real (the idea/concept of Santa Claus.) Someone who believes in Santa Claus and one who sees Christmas as a time of sharing and goodwill are believing the same thing, just with a different approach.
    Except that unlike Santa, adults are actually convinced that God is real, so it's not exactly like Santa Claus.

    Besides, Jesus was more or less trying to get rid of what he saw was a bureaucratic, dogma filled nightmare (ancient Judaism) that was at the time quite militant against the Romans trying to encroach on their religion and way of life.
    He wasn't just a religious reformer. According to the bible, he proclaimed himself as the son of the creator of the universe, and said that "no one comes to the father except through me", described himself as "the light of the world" and proclaimed that you must put your love of him above the love of your own family members.

    "OMG RELIGON IZ DANGEROUZ PLZ STOP IT!!11!!1"

    Seriously, shut the hell up with this argument. Religion is not dangerous. It's the people that are dangerous. People claiming this are just pissed because they don't have some sort of faith except for "big bangz and evolushunz". This goes for everyone else who hates religion for absurd reasons. Religion WAS dangerous. See kids, with the church having no authority whatsoever in government matters, it would be kind of hard to create another crusade or some shit similar.
    The ideology has influence on government matters. (stem cell research , abortion, evolution controversy) I said it's dangerous because once religion takes over a mind it's often difficult to deconvert because of the threats and fear it causes, not that there's a realistic chance of the church starting a holy war again.

    I thought that the Bible was full of metaphors? Isn't it written in some form of poetry?
    If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
    Is this supposed to be poetry or something

    this is actually pretty ironic
    Not really, seeing as I used to be religious and I'm open to any valid evidence for the existence of god.

    It's also bullshit.
    Oh I'm sure there are some preachers who don't want their teachings questioned, but I don't think any religion says that it's wrong to question things.
    It would be bullshit, if there wasn't a passage in the bible that says denying the Holy Spirit is an unforgivable sin.
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  18. Post #58
    Gold Member
    Cone's Avatar
    August 2011
    19,168 Posts
    9/11 was acted out by those under the delusion that they would be rewarded in some other life.
    Except it also had a huge politcal motivation. America took down a democratic leader in Afghanistan (or was it Iran? I forget which) and installed a pro-west dictator.

    The child rape was hidden by the church for a long period of time.
    Can I get a few individual cases of this child rape, please? It's hard to say what I want when you're only giving one side and no story.

    Many people in high positions of religious authority are homophobic, and the bible itself says to stone them.
    Except that part is regarded as outdated by all but the people who believe in it. Besides, these people are raised in horribly regressive places, the homophobic actions would take place whether religion was there or not.
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  19. Post #59
    Gold Member
    Patriarch's Avatar
    June 2010
    1,507 Posts
    And the president of the USA invaded Iraq illegally, therefore all the USA supported it.
    That's a political issue.
    If you read the koran, or the bible, you'll find lots of advocation for violence.
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  20. Post #60
    funion is gay
    Zukriuchen's Avatar
    September 2009
    16,855 Posts
    People can believe whatever they want, though
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  21. Post #61
    Gold Member
    sgman91's Avatar
    July 2006
    4,297 Posts
    And christianity does just that, Doubting Thomas is not a particularly positive character.
    Really? I don't think Jesus criticized Thomas at all... in fact his doubt wasn't put in a negative light at all. The same goes for John the Baptist when he doubted. Jesus didn't criticize him, he tried to encourage him.
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  22. Post #62
    I make sexist and racist jokes all the time yet,i still support the feminist movement and the rights of blacks.
    znk666's Avatar
    July 2010
    5,535 Posts
    People can believe whatever they want, though
    I don't think anyone here says otherwise...
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  23. Post #63
    DerMaus's Avatar
    January 2012
    246 Posts
    As an atheist I say you can believe what you want to, but when it leads you to treat other people negatively, I have a problem with it.
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  24. Post #64
    Actually a cool guy
    David29's Avatar
    June 2005
    3,029 Posts
    That's a political issue.
    If you read the koran, or the bible, you'll find lots of advocation for violence.
    ...It doesn't matter. The fact is that you are saying that because one set of people did one thing, everyone else agrees with them. I was showing how retarded that is by applying it to a different scenario.

    And humanity as a whole is full of violence. Let's do away with humanity!
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  25. Post #65
    Ask me about my .gif fetish
    st0rmforce's Avatar
    February 2008
    3,594 Posts
    It would be bullshit, if there wasn't a passage in the bible that says denying the Holy Spirit is an unforgivable sin.
    I somehow knew you'd mention that one. You've picked a particular translation of that verse that sounds the way you like, so that you can use it to make your own point. Extremists also like to do that kind of thing. Most translations use the word blaspheme, which is a little more specific.

    Jesus said that after some teachers of the law had said that it was an evil spirit, not the holy spirit that gave him power.
    I've read a few commentaries about it and people think that he meant: once somebody decides that his power comes from Satan, anything else they see will only confirm their own beliefs. So there's no going back from this point.
    I think the passage was a lot more specific than the meaning you like to give it.
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  26. Post #66
    Gold Member
    Archonos 2's Avatar
    June 2005
    1,598 Posts
    I'll assume that CoE is some abriviation for a religion.
    9/11 was acted out by those under the delusion that they would be rewarded in some other life.
    The child rape was hidden by the church for a long period of time.
    Many people in high positions of religious authority are homophobic, and the bible itself says to stone them.
    There are extremists in everything. Because there are some twisted people out there that are connected to religion does not mean everyone involved in religion and anything about religion is evil.

    There are plenty of normal people of every religious background who, shockingly, don't rape children, support terrorism, shove their views down others' throats, or participate in atrocities that you're mentioning.

    Blanketing everyone in a category based on a view extremists isn't a very strong argument.

    Edited:

    Really? I don't think Jesus criticized Thomas at all... in fact his doubt wasn't put in a negative light at all. The same goes for John the Baptist when he doubted. Jesus didn't criticize him, he tried to encourage him.
    The probably most major disciple, Peter, denied Jesus and he wasn't punished for it either.
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  27. Post #67
    gav618's Avatar
    September 2010
    1,096 Posts
    Sometimes the internet is too harsh on religion. I dislike when anyone shoves their views down my throat, whether its atheist, chirstian, islamic, hindu, etc.

    I'm Lutheran and I don't force my beliefs on anyone, just a simple belief. Let people believe what they want.
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  28. Post #68
    dogfood123's Avatar
    January 2012
    47 Posts
    Atheists on the internet generally love shoving their shit down people's throats, mainly because well, it's the internet. There is lots of evidence of atheists being smart-asses just by looking in your nearest facepunch threads. One guy says "May he rest in peace and have a peaceful afterlife" Then some internet-warrior atheist pops out of nowhere and says "There is no afterlife. Religion is a hoax. blah blah blah". Seriously, get that shit out of here.

    I am not saying atheists are bad, since I am one, but seriously, let people have their own beliefs.
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  29. Post #69
    Dennab
    May 2010
    1,020 Posts
    Atheists on the internet generally love shoving their shit down people's throats, mainly because well, it's the internet. There is lots of evidence of atheists being smart-asses just by looking in your nearest facepunch threads. One guy says "May he rest in peace and have a peaceful afterlife" Then some internet-warrior atheist pops out of nowhere and says "There is no afterlife. Religion is a hoax. blah blah blah". Seriously, get that shit out of here.

    I am not saying atheists are bad, since I am one, but seriously, let people have their own beliefs.
    It's nice to see an atheist that isn't a jackass.
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  30. Post #70
    dogfood123's Avatar
    January 2012
    47 Posts
    It's nice to see an atheist that isn't a jackass.
    When I meet other atheists in real life, they are not the type that like to shove their big fat atheist-cock-trophies down the throats of those WRETCHED RELIGION BELIEVERS!!

    Most of them are respectful to other people's religions

    But on the internet atheists seem to like showing off their big fat atheist-trophies.

    http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news...st-atheism.php

    Very good article about internet atheism.
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  31. Post #71
    Dennab
    May 2010
    1,020 Posts
    When I meet other atheists in real life, they are not the type that like to shove their big fat atheist-cock-trophies down the throats of those WRETCHED RELIGION BELIEVERS!!

    Most of them are respectful to other people's religions

    But on the internet atheists seem to like showing off their big fat atheist-trophies.

    http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news...st-atheism.php

    Very good article about internet atheism.
    That is a really nice article. It's funny but gets the point across. I like it.
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  32. Post #72
    Gold Member
    Ray-The-Sun's Avatar
    December 2007
    11,866 Posts
    Damn, your right. Especially with all those recent Bhuddist terrorist attacks recently.
    Ah, yes. Someone who doesn't know that Buddhism isn't a religion.

    Religion as a concept is fine; but if you're going to be religious, don't pick and choose what to follow from your doctrine. Follow all of it or follow none of it. For example, the bible explicitly says that homosexuality is "detestable" (in both the old and the new testament!), so you can be pretty damned sure that you shouldn't be accepting it under the watch of the Lord.

    Even though that would probably deny me my marriage rights if people did that.
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  33. Post #73
    Gold Member

    May 2005
    2,268 Posts
    I somehow knew you'd mention that one. You've picked a particular translation of that verse that sounds the way you like, so that you can use it to make your own point. Extremists also like to do that kind of thing. Most translations use the word blaspheme, which is a little more specific.

    Jesus said that after some teachers of the law had said that it was an evil spirit, not the holy spirit that gave him power.
    I've read a few commentaries about it and people think that he meant: once somebody decides that his power comes from Satan, anything else they see will only confirm their own beliefs. So there's no going back from this point.
    I think the passage was a lot more specific than the meaning you like to give it.
    Sure, you can argue that some of it is open to interpretation.

    I really don't think this is the place to start debating biblical context so I won't carry it on further. Like I said before, I think everyone should be free to believe whatever they want, provided it doesn't harm anyone else.
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  34. Post #74
    Actually a cool guy
    David29's Avatar
    June 2005
    3,029 Posts
    Ah, yes. Someone who doesn't know that Buddhism isn't a religion.

    Religion as a concept is fine; but if you're going to be religious, don't pick and choose what to follow from your doctrine. Follow all of it or follow none of it. For example, the bible explicitly says that homosexuality is "detestable" (in both the old and the new testament!), so you can be pretty damned sure that you shouldn't be accepting it under the watch of the Lord.

    Even though that would probably deny me my marriage rights if people did that.
    First, I just looked up Bhuddism at it clearly stated it was a religion.

    Second, everyone has a different take on religion. That's why we have so many variations. People are grouped into a certain religion based on whether or not they agree with the majority of views of that religion - not all of them. It's like saying a Tory isn't a Tory because he doesn't agree with David Cameron on one issue. In my case, I am Church of England but, for various reasons (and no, I'm not gay myself) I don't see homosexuality as a sin.
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  35. Post #75
    funion is gay
    Zukriuchen's Avatar
    September 2009
    16,855 Posts
    I really don't think this is the place to start debating biblical context so I won't carry it on further. Like I said before, I think everyone should be free to believe whatever they want, provided it doesn't harm anyone else.
    That's a pretty good way to go on about it, and, tbh, a much less aggressive approach than your last one
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  36. Post #76
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    August 2005
    12,791 Posts
    Facepunch tends to have a thing against Christanity, largely because it's the religion they've been most exposed to (mom and dad made them go to a few services before, and it was terrible.)
    Its the largest religion here and I understand why this is.
    Its basically the whole "shoving down one's throat" thing, and I bet most of us here find it increadibly boring, annoying and pointless.
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  37. Post #77
    Gold Member
    JustGman's Avatar
    December 2005
    6,058 Posts
    We're never too hard on religion. Religion as a whole is full of outdated ideals, beliefs and laws that have no place in society today. What sickens me is how modern religious people try to twist their religion to make it fit the ideals of the masses.
    "bible says all gay people are bad? nope i'm a-okay with them and so is god ;)"
    If you aren't going to believe what your religious texts tell you to believe then what's the point of even keeping them around?
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  38. Post #78
    Annotated Reader Lapsed Pacifist
    The_J_Hat's Avatar
    December 2008
    12,083 Posts
    9/11 was acted out by those under the delusion that they would be rewarded in some other life.
    The child rape was hidden by the church for a long period of time.
    9/11 was acted out by those who led under the delusion of a sick, criminalistic fuck who took a literal interpretation of the Quran only to gain followers by telling them that they'd get a reward only so he wouldn't have to sacrifice himself to make a message of hate.

    For the Child Rape debacle, ponder this: let's say you work at a large company that is a household name and has many investors and customers. If one of the founding CEO's admitted to child rape, how would you and all of the investors/customers feel? Well, you'd most likely like to get away from that company as soon as possible.

    The Church only hid these accusations so that everybody wouldn't decide to abandon ship because some nasty, misogynistic priests decided to abuse children. They didn't want people to run away because of a few bad eggs spoiling the bunch. In the long run, was this the best idea? Probably not, the whole damn thing was a ticking time bomb.


    Religion is not a bad thing as a whole. Religion is not a means of control; it's a group trying to spread a message of peace and goodwill and a way to lead a good life. Do you have to agree with them? No. There is no written rule about you having to devote yourself to it, but for those people who have, don't just tell them to fuck off just because you can.
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  39. Post #79
    funion is gay
    Zukriuchen's Avatar
    September 2009
    16,855 Posts
    We're never too hard on religion. Religion as a whole is full of outdated ideals, beliefs and laws that have no place in society today. What sickens me is how modern religious people try to twist their religion to make it fit the ideals of the masses.
    "bible says all gay people are bad? nope i'm a-okay with them and so is god ;)"
    If you aren't going to believe what your religious texts tell you to believe then what's the point of even keeping them around?
    It's not like there's a single religion in the entire world.
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  40. Post #80
    Lilyo's Avatar
    October 2011
    2,366 Posts
    Right, because substituting reality with your own ignorance and lack of knowledge is always the way to go...
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