1. Post #41
    Gold Member
    .FLAP.JACK.DAN.'s Avatar
    September 2010
    4,112 Posts
    Most likely just for pedestrian safety, but that's just not gonna satisfy gearheads like me.
    I honestly don't think you need to hear a car's engine to not hit by one. You can just hear the tires on the road.

  2. Post #42
    Gold Member
    clutch2's Avatar
    May 2005
    1,277 Posts
    Lol.. epic fail with their design flaw...

    Oh, your battery died? That'll $40,000 for a new one... if not, enjoy your very expensive



    Cool otherwise.. but the fact that this is even possible is a debacle they'd be wise to remedy.

  3. Post #43
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    March 2009
    2,583 Posts
    Lol.. epic fail with their design flaw...

    Oh, your battery died? That'll $40,000 for a new one... if not, enjoy your very expensive



    Cool otherwise.. but the fact that this is even possible is a debacle they'd be wise to remedy.
    5 out of 2000 have been bricked. if you brick it, its your fault alone.
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  4. Post #44
    Gold Member
    Second-gear-of-mgear's Avatar
    June 2009
    6,054 Posts
    5 out of 2000 have been bricked. if you brick it, its your fault alone.
    That's how I see it.

    I also see people who let their car run completely out of gas as irresponsible.
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  5. Post #45
    Gold Member
    clutch2's Avatar
    May 2005
    1,277 Posts
    Shrug, at least if an IC car runs out of gas it just needs a refill. It seems irresponsible to let these go with this known defect in the battery and not call attention to it in the manual.

    I will agree that allowing the car to get to 0% due to neglect is irresponsible as well, but sometimes it's unavoidable I would imagine. I certainly wouldn't leave it at the airport while I went for a trip knowing this, even if the manual said it "should be good for several weeks."

    At the fact that even if the owner purchased the $12000 replacement plan for a new battery several years down the road, but can't cash in if the car bricks.. bad business practice. It's as bad as buying an extended warranty, but when something goes wrong BestBuy says "oh, lol that's not covered, catch ya later!"

  6. Post #46
    IT WAS ONLY $1 SO WHY NOT BUY A TITLE?
    Tukimoshi's Avatar
    March 2007
    3,102 Posts
    They've totally underplayed the problem and make no attempt to assist customers who have fallen victim to this flaw. This is not a 'minor bug', it's a part of the car and they are failing to properly inform customers. I wouldn't say it's completely the customer's fault if they aren't informed the battery can become a brick and they happen to leave for the airport.

    Or the case of the customer who used the extension cord so it wasn't considered a strong enough current to charge the car and resulted in another brick.

    Of course, it could be partially considered their fault, but Tesla should be making it much more obvious that this can happen. Because it's common sense you keep your car full of oil, it's not common sense that your car can't sit for more than a week without charging.

    Plus, Oil doesn't typically deplete in 1-6 weeks so calling it "regular maintenance" is a little bit excessive, and my car doesn't completely die if I leave it on low fuel for a few weeks sitting (I might have to empty the fuel).

    The fact that customers paid $12,000 for a warranty replacement battery can't use it to replace their bricked battery just shows that Tesla is being a bunch of cocks about the issue.
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  7. Post #47
    We're made of star-stuff
    LarparNar's Avatar
    February 2009
    10,095 Posts
    I'm curious to see what Tesla will be doing about this problem on the Model S and X.

    It's certainly dickish about them to be acting like they do about it.
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  8. Post #48
    We're made of star-stuff
    LarparNar's Avatar
    February 2009
    10,095 Posts
    I added the battery issue in the OP under downsides.

    Edited:

    Also a good read: http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...ehind-the-post

  9. Post #49
    Gold Member
    TestECull's Avatar
    July 2007
    6,807 Posts
    I'm curious to see what Tesla will be doing about this problem on the Model S and X.

    It's certainly dickish about them to be acting like they do about it.

    The source seems to indicate they're not doing anything about it, and while they can't do anything about the battery chemistry they could easily enough rig it where the computers physically disconnect the power when the battery depletes low enough, in order to prevent this.

    I honestly don't think you need to hear a car's engine to not hit by one. You can just hear the tires on the road.
    Incorrect. They're already having issues with hybrids like the Prius in this regard. Pedestrians in cities cannot hear them coming. They're going too slowly to generate any significant wind or tire noise, and since they're running on all battery at those speeds, they make no engine noise either.

    It is a safety issue. The noise ICE cars makes enables pedestrians in crowded cities to detect they're coming without looking at them. Cars that don't make this noise are absolutely undetectable unless you're looking directly at them.


    5 out of 2000 have been bricked. if you brick it, its your fault alone.
    Say someone drives their Tesla to LAX, parks it, plugs it in with a suitable cord, then jets off to Tokyo for a business trip lasting two weeks. Someone else walking through the parking lot trips over the cord and unplugs it.


    There's a very plausible scenario where one of these things could end up bricked entirely without the owner making a mistake. There should be coverage for this under the warranty or car insurance one. It's a known fault with lithium polymer batteries.


    Avoiding this would be simple, too. Attach a voltmeter to the battery, and when it drops below a certain voltage a relay trips and physically disconnects it from ALL systems. The only electrical connection remaining is to the charge plug. Problem is now solved, the battery will be unable to discharge to the point it cannot be recharged.

  10. Post #50
    Str4fe's Avatar
    December 2009
    4,977 Posts
    Lets say your electricity bill is 15 cents per kWh. (average cost of electricity)

    Because Tesla Roadster uses 13.5kWh/100km, it only costs 2 dollars to drive 100 kilometers.
    How fucking awesome is that? The car is a pretty good investment, especially if gas prices are high in your area.

    Edited:

    And about the battery flaw, that if it runs dry, the battery would become a brick, i think they will fix that issue.

    And it would not be hard to make a killswitch for it, when battery runs low it would turn the electricity off to protect the batteries.
    I mean, if i bought this car, i could easily make one myself.

  11. Post #51
    We're made of star-stuff
    LarparNar's Avatar
    February 2009
    10,095 Posts
    The source seems to indicate they're not doing anything about it, and while they can't do anything about the battery chemistry they could easily enough rig it where the computers physically disconnect the power when the battery depletes low enough, in order to prevent this.
    The source knows just as much as you or I when it comes to what Tesla is doing about their next models.
    They're already contacting owners if the vehicles go below a certain level of charge, and in one case where they couldn't find the owner, activated the GPS and went to the car themselves.

    The $40 000 cost to fix it is ridiculous though, if the owner used the car as described in the manual, and it got discharged some other way.


    Say someone drives their Tesla to LAX, parks it, plugs it in with a suitable cord, then jets off to Tokyo for a business trip lasting two weeks. Someone else walking through the parking lot trips over the cord and unplugs it.
    If I somehow managed to trip over and unplug a cord of a parked EV, I would most definitely plug it back in.

    This is also why the cord should be locked in place and unmovable if the car is locked, which it might be, I'm not sure.

    There's a very plausible scenario where one of these things could end up bricked entirely without the owner making a mistake. There should be coverage for this under the warranty or car insurance one. It's a known fault with lithium polymer batteries.
    I agree that the warranty should cover this if the owner is not at fault.

  12. Post #52
    Str4fe's Avatar
    December 2009
    4,977 Posts
    And another plus side.
    It sounds like a motherfucking jet plane.

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  13. Post #53
    Gold Member
    TestECull's Avatar
    July 2007
    6,807 Posts
    LarparNar posted:

    The $40 000 cost to fix it is ridiculous though, if the owner used the car as described in the manual, and it got discharged some other way.
    mhm, thats what the whole issue is over.



    If I somehow managed to trip over and unplug a cord of a parked EV, I would most definitely plug it back in.
    i would too, but not everyone is that considerate. There is also some airports far enough into the countryside that would be subject to large animals tripping over the car's charge cord.

    This is also why the cord should be locked in place and unmovable if the car is locked, which it might be, I'm not sure.
    it should be, yes.



    2I agree that the warranty should cover this if the owner is not at fault.
    mhm

  14. Post #54
    We're made of star-stuff
    LarparNar's Avatar
    February 2009
    10,095 Posts
    Tesla posted a blog post regarding the issue:

    A single blogger is spreading a rumor about electric vehicles becoming inoperable. “Bricking” is an irrational fear based on limited information and a misunderstanding of Tesla’s battery system. Here is why the rumor is unfounded:

    Of the many pleasures that Tesla owners have, one of the most appreciated is nearly worry-free maintenance of their vehicles. As an owner, you no longer have to worry about constant oil changes, exhaust checks, or spark plug replacements. You can drive it for many years by simply plugging it in when needed, and performing maintenance once a year. If anything goes wrong, call us. We’re always happy to hear from our owners. Tesla routinely provides exceptional service that is above and beyond what people have come to expect.

    In return, we ask that you remember to charge it. A plugged-in Tesla is not only charging its battery, it is also keeping key systems within the car functioning properly. Tesla owners around the world keep their cars charged on a daily basis without any issues at all. If ever the battery in your Tesla runs low, the car is designed to let you know with repeated visual and audible warnings. If you continue to ignore the warnings, they will persist and increase. The vehicle also protects the battery itself by communicating with other systems in the car to conserve energy when the state of charge gets too low. Starting with Roadster 2.0, owners can also elect for their car to contact Tesla headquarters once the state of charge falls below a specified level, and we can then contact the owner.

    Even in cases of neglect, the latest Tesla batteries are industry leaders. The earliest Roadsters will take over two months to discharge if parked at a 50 percent charge without being plugged in. From that starting point, Tesla has consistently innovated and improved our battery technology. For example, a Model S battery parked with 50 percent charge would approach full discharge only after about 12 months. Model S batteries also have the ability to protect themselves as they approach very low charge levels by going into a “deep sleep” mode that lowers the loss even further. A Model S will not allow its battery to fall below about 5 percent charge. At that point the car can still sit for many months. Of course you can drive a Model S to 0 percent charge, but even in that circumstance, if you plug it in within 30 days, the battery will recover normally.

    All cars require a certain amount of attention to perform properly. If you drive a gasoline engine with no oil it will fail completely and need to be replaced. The same happens if you drive without sufficient coolant or a broken fan belt and don’t heed the warning signs displayed by the car. At Tesla, we provide many redundant visual and audible warnings if your battery ever needs attention. And from Roadster 2.0 and beyond, your Tesla can even let us know it needs your attention. If that happens, we simply contact you and suggest you charge your car.

    Owning a Tesla is easy. We design our cars to require minimal maintenance and have included many ways for the car to take care of itself. We have also continually advanced our technology with each new model released. Model S and Model X will have batteries that can sit unplugged for over a year when parked with only a 50 percent charge. And when that year is up, all you need to do is plug it in.
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  15. Post #55
    Streetwise Angel Booksmart Devil
    Grasp's Avatar
    January 2010
    3,015 Posts
    And another plus side.
    It sounds like a motherfucking jet plane.


    Doesn't even come close to this imo

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  16. Post #56
    Gold Member
    Second-gear-of-mgear's Avatar
    June 2009
    6,054 Posts
    And another plus side.
    It sounds like a motherfucking jet plane.


    I like that way more than any combustion engine I've ever heard. It's just so futuristic sounding, like you'd expect to hear it from flying cars.
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  17. Post #57
    Gold Member
    clutch2's Avatar
    May 2005
    1,277 Posts
    Tesla posted a blog post regarding the issue:

    Very interesting read. I wonder what is truth and what is simple rumors, now...?
    Customers say X that looks bad for the company, company says Y to recover PR.. it's anyone's guess.
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  18. Post #58
    Gold Member
    WolvesSoulZ's Avatar
    June 2008
    4,148 Posts
    I like that way more than any combustion engine I've ever heard. It's just so futuristic sounding, like you'd expect to hear it from flying cars.
    But I want my flying car to sound like cammed v8
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  19. Post #59
    Audio Enthusiast
    Tezzanator92's Avatar
    June 2006
    2,780 Posts
    I'd love an electric car.

    The motors are already good enough for this application.
    I just don't think that traditional batteries are the answer.
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  20. Post #60
    Gold Member
    rampageturke 2's Avatar
    September 2010
    8,716 Posts
    I love this


    Edited:

    acceleration looks so smooth
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  21. Post #61
    Dennab
    December 2009
    1,739 Posts
    “Bricking” is an irrational fear based on limited information and a misunderstanding of Tesla’s battery system.
    Which is why it's happened five times already.

    I hate Tesla. As soon as someone starts pointing out the flaws in their cars, they go into butthurt mode. First with the TopGear lawsuit (which got thrown out in court) and now they're trying to smear the guy who let the public know about this problem. And just to make matters worse, they wouldn't be around to whine about this shit if they hadn't leeched so much government money. If anyone is going to make a decent electric car, it won't be Tesla.
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  22. Post #62
    Gold Member
    Second-gear-of-mgear's Avatar
    June 2009
    6,054 Posts
    I do think electric cars are the future, just not with batteries like this.


    Thorium reactors :3

  23. Post #63
    Gold Member
    rampageturke 2's Avatar
    September 2010
    8,716 Posts
    I do think electric cars are the future, just not with batteries like this.


    Thorium reactors :3
    But that's radioactive! All the soccormoms would cry Chernobyl
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  24. Post #64
    Dennab
    December 2009
    1,739 Posts
    But that's radioactive! All the soccormoms would cry Chernobyl
    WE CANT USE NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS THEY'RE RADIOACTIVE

    WE NEED TO USE SOLAR PANELS INSTEAD
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  25. Post #65
    DMK95921's Avatar
    April 2008
    516 Posts
    Telsas are common where I live. Then again I live 30 min from the factory here in Silicon Valley..

  26. Post #66
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    May 2005
    2,146 Posts
    Electric motocross.


    Dont like, best part of the video is at 2:35 with that motor sound.
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  27. Post #67
    Gold Member
    edberg's Avatar
    June 2005
    2,464 Posts
    diesel-electric is only a stepping stone
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  28. Post #68
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    March 2009
    2,583 Posts
    WE CANT USE NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS THEY'RE RADIOACTIVE

    WE NEED TO USE SOLAR PANELS INSTEAD
    Yeah! Fuck clean, sustainable energy, we need to use the shit that'll kill creatures and people horribly and slowly, and poison the surroundings!


    Seriously, what the fuck kind of logic says that nuclear energy is cleaner and safer then solar fucking panels?
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  29. Post #69
    We're made of star-stuff
    LarparNar's Avatar
    February 2009
    10,095 Posts
    Yeah! Fuck clean, sustainable energy, we need to use the shit that'll kill creatures and people horribly and slowly, and poison the surroundings!


    Seriously, what the fuck kind of logic says that nuclear energy is cleaner and safer then solar fucking panels?
    Nuclear energy is both safe and clean if you place the reactor somewhere safe (like not in a Tsunami or earthquake area), and you find a way to deal with the nuclear waste.
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  30. Post #70
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    March 2009
    2,583 Posts
    Nuclear energy is both safe and clean if you place the reactor somewhere safe (like not in a Tsunami or earthquake area), and you find a way to deal with the nuclear waste.
    Yes, find a way to dispose of the nuclear waste that'll take hundreds of thousands of years to become entirely harmless. You're fooling yourself if you ever think we'll be able to do that.
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  31. Post #71
    We're made of star-stuff
    LarparNar's Avatar
    February 2009
    10,095 Posts
    Yes, find a way to dispose of the nuclear waste that'll take hundreds of thousands of years to become entirely harmless. You're fooling yourself if you ever think we'll be able to do that.
    I didn't say dispose of it, I said deal with it.

    Store it somewhere, use it for something useful, shoot it into the sun, find any way.

    I'm not saying I know how to do it, but dismissing it as impossible isn't going to get us anywhere.
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  32. Post #72
    Concur's Avatar
    December 2011
    1,964 Posts
    , shoot it into the sun,
    why we no giant rockets that burn some kind of non poluting fuel that launch our trash into the sun
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  33. Post #73
    We're made of star-stuff
    LarparNar's Avatar
    February 2009
    10,095 Posts
    why we no giant rockets that burn some kind of non poluting fuel that launch our trash into the sun
    Lol rockets usually burn liquid hydrogen or oxygen.

    Which are definitely non-polluting.
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  34. Post #74
    Concur's Avatar
    December 2011
    1,964 Posts
    then why we no blast everything into space,

    /ideas i had when 12/

  35. Post #75
    We're made of star-stuff
    LarparNar's Avatar
    February 2009
    10,095 Posts
    then why we no blast everything into space,

    /ideas i had when 12/
    Because right now it's expensive. Doesn't mean it always will be.
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  36. Post #76
    Dennab
    December 2009
    1,739 Posts
    Yes, find a way to dispose of the nuclear waste that'll take hundreds of thousands of years to become entirely harmless. You're fooling yourself if you ever think we'll be able to do that.
    It's not like this waste would be a common thing, you can get a lot of life out of nuclear fuel before it becomes considered waste. Even then, I heard the French were developing some sort of reactor that could even use that stuff.

    If you want to clear massive fields to fit the solar panels/wind turbines that would be necessary to output the same power as a nuke plant, be my guest. I just figured it'd be awfully hypocritical to wipe out entire ecosystems to fit your "clean energy source". Also, you'd better pray that its sunny/windy every day.
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  37. Post #77
    Gold Member
    meppers's Avatar
    April 2007
    9,161 Posts
    how to solve nuclear problem:
    step one: store stuff in yucca mountain
    step two: 200 years from now when space is cheap we build the yucca mountain space center
    step three: send waste into jupiter

  38. Post #78
    IT WAS ONLY $1 SO WHY NOT BUY A TITLE?
    Tukimoshi's Avatar
    March 2007
    3,102 Posts
    It's not like this waste would be a common thing, you can get a lot of life out of nuclear fuel before it becomes considered waste. Even then, I heard the French were developing some sort of reactor that could even use that stuff.

    If you want to clear massive fields to fit the solar panels/wind turbines that would be necessary to output the same power as a nuke plant, be my guest. I just figured it'd be awfully hypocritical to wipe out entire ecosystems to fit your "clean energy source". Also, you'd better pray that its sunny/windy every day.
    You realize we can put wind turbines and solar panels in the ocean right? If we dotted the coast with them all around the world, there'd be enough power to power everything in the world.

    The current problem is that solar power is extremely expensive, personal solar power is around $6-7 per watt. A lightbulb uses around 40watts at a time iirc so, not very efficient.

    Wind Generators work great on the ocean though.

  39. Post #79
    Gold Member
    WolvesSoulZ's Avatar
    June 2008
    4,148 Posts
    You realize we can put wind turbines and solar panels in the ocean right? If we dotted the coast with them all around the world, there'd be enough power to power everything in the world.

    The current problem is that solar power is extremely expensive, personal solar power is around $6-7 per watt. A lightbulb uses around 40watts at a time iirc so, not very efficient.

    Wind Generators work great on the ocean though.
    You do realize that with personal solar powering you do not use conventional bulbs, you will use 12v led bulbs and things like the so, that uses WAY less watts than a conventional one. Yes it is expensive to build a proper self-maintaining solar power station, but you have to be efficient and then you'll save tons of money. Solar power is very efficient with the right equipment. Not to brag, but I have classes in this domain.

  40. Post #80
    IT WAS ONLY $1 SO WHY NOT BUY A TITLE?
    Tukimoshi's Avatar
    March 2007
    3,102 Posts
    You do realize that with personal solar powering you do not use conventional bulbs, you will use 12v led bulbs and things like the so, that uses WAY less watts than a conventional one. Yes it is expensive to build a proper self-maintaining solar power station, but you have to be efficient and then you'll save tons of money. Solar power is very efficient with the right equipment. Not to brag, but I have classes in this domain.
    Yes, I was just trying to demonstrate how expensive solar power is. Not everyone is gonna convert to LED Bulbs, etc etc. Computers will still draw lots of powers, along with our washers and dryers, our TVs, etc. Lightbulbs are very minimal on the consumption side, I was just showing how to power a single lightbulb, it could cost hundreds of dollars.

    I'm no expert in solar panels. Anyways,

    The Nissan Leaf is pretty nifty. If you're old and have money, it'd be a perfect car for puttering around town in. Safe, Economical, Rarely needs maintenance. A shame that their battery distance needs to be improved. My friend who works at Nissan drove one, driving 2km, it dropped the battery range by 20km.
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