1. Post #81
    Dennab
    December 2009
    1,739 Posts
    You do realize that with personal solar powering you do not use conventional bulbs, you will use 12v led bulbs and things like the so, that uses WAY less watts than a conventional one. Yes it is expensive to build a proper self-maintaining solar power station, but you have to be efficient and then you'll save tons of money. Solar power is very efficient with the right equipment. Not to brag, but I have classes in this domain.
    I hope those light bulbs give you enough left over power to power dishwashers, washing machines, ovens, aircon, heat, or anything else you might be using in the vast multitude of everyday house electronics. And again, I hope where you chose to live is a very sunny place. You'd better also hope that it doesn't snow there, because I don't know how well solar panels work with a few inches of snow on top of them. Speaking of weather, how well do you think solar panels hold up to a bad hail storm? How well would they hold up to being frozen and thawed several times?

    Solar power just isn't practical. Not only is it not a constant source of power, but it just can't compete with the amount of power a nuke plant can put out.

    Look at it this way:
    Golmud Solar Park is the largest solar field in the world. It can output a max of 200MW of power and has an annual average of 317GWh.
    Three Mile Island is that nuke plant that everyone made a big deal about when one of its reactors failed. It is still operating on the other, undamaged reactor, and can put out four times as much power (800MW) and has an annual average of 6,645GWh.

    Despite all this green, environmental nonsense everyone has adopted lately, our power consumption is still going up. Solar power isn't enough to meet the growing demand.
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  2. Post #82
    Gold Member
    WolvesSoulZ's Avatar
    June 2008
    4,070 Posts
    I hope those light bulbs give you enough left over power to power dishwashers, washing machines, ovens, aircon, heat, or anything else you might be using in the vast multitude of everyday house electronics. And again, I hope where you chose to live is a very sunny place. You'd better also hope that it doesn't snow there, because I don't know how well solar panels work with a few inches of snow on top of them. Speaking of weather, how well do you think solar panels hold up to a bad hail storm? How well would they hold up to being frozen and thawed several times?

    Solar power just isn't practical. Not only is it not a constant source of power, but it just can't compete with the amount of power a nuke plant can put out.

    Look at it this way:
    Golmud Solar Park is the largest solar field in the world. It can output a max of 200MW of power and has an annual average of 317GWh.
    Three Mile Island is that nuke plant that everyone made a big deal about when one of its reactors failed. It is still operating on the other, undamaged reactor, and can put out four times as much power (800MW) and has an annual average of 6,645GWh.

    Despite all this green, environmental nonsense everyone has adopted lately, our power consumption is still going up. Solar power isn't enough to meet the growing demand.
    Ahh well from a guy who has got his classes to be qualified at making whole solar system on whole hunting camps of a few cabins and the like, I can assure you that with a bit of calculus, moderation, and well, just plain having the right equipment, you can make it worth it for your home/cabin. How? Batteries and good management. Snow? Not a problem, I come from the north so we've been qualified to deal with that, how? It's all in the angle and right placement. You can power everything you'd find in your household. And if you really wanted to be efficient, you can take most things in 12v too.

    But I agree, it's not efficient unless you build a new house or cabin, it'll cost you at least 4000 to get starter for a few things, to at least save tons on your current bill, and at least 9000 if you want to be 100% self-efficient, for a common house. And I'm not a green guy at all, so I way prefer hunting camps with good ol' gasoline generator. BUT then again, for case like this, if you are ready to invest, solar ain't a bad idea.

    I don't care if it's about the demand as a whole, I'm just stating facts for personal or commercial uses, as that's what I had training in, not for whole cities, because then I just don't care. Either way, I'll stick to hydroelectricity.
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  3. Post #83
    IT WAS ONLY $1 SO WHY NOT BUY A TITLE?
    Tukimoshi's Avatar
    March 2007
    3,102 Posts
    The fact of the matter is that with a small amount of solar panels/wind turbines on the coast, we could power the world. However, the price for that small amount would be astronomically high, just like how gas will be astronomically high in price once we get dangerously low on oil.

    I'm wary of Nuclear Power because as we find areas to place the waste, we create more of it. We've learned from the Oil Crisis that using a limited/time-restricted resource is a bad idea. Launching it into space is even worse because even the smallest space debris can destroy a ship at the speeds they need to leave the atmosphere.

  4. Post #84
    Gold Member
    WolvesSoulZ's Avatar
    June 2008
    4,070 Posts
    I'm sure that we humans, will end up coming with a decent alternative in the future, I mean, we made the world as we know it now, many good inventions, yet there are some flaws, but nothing can be perfect. Let's hope for the best.
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  5. Post #85
    Gold Member
    Second-gear-of-mgear's Avatar
    June 2009
    6,054 Posts
    Pretty neat that it can go 90 in reverse. I gotta admit, if it had a long range or a bigass solar cell on the roof that'd actually be able to charge it when you put it in park. I'd probably buy one if I could afford it.

  6. Post #86
    Ask Me About My VW Beetle Fetish
    Ldesu's Avatar
    March 2008
    9,195 Posts
    Pretty neat that it can go 90 in reverse. I gotta admit, if it had a long range or a bigass solar cell on the roof that'd actually be able to charge it when you put it in park. I'd probably buy one if I could afford it.
    It doesn't currently have a long range?

  7. Post #87
    Gold Member
    Second-gear-of-mgear's Avatar
    June 2009
    6,054 Posts
    Like 200 miles or something with feather feet. I have a bit of a lead foot.
    For a city car, it honestly seems perfect though. I could care less about engine sound since most new cars are super insulated anyways.

  8. Post #88
    We're made of star-stuff
    LarparNar's Avatar
    February 2009
    9,990 Posts
    Like 200 miles or something with feather feet. I have a bit of a lead foot.
    For a city car, it honestly seems perfect though. I could care less about engine sound since most new cars are super insulated anyways.
    According to Tesla, the largest battery on the Model S does 300 miles with an average speed of 55 mph.

    They say that testing shows that it does much more in city driving, because the regen system loves stop-and-go traffic.

    Edited:

    It all depends on how heavy you're on the throttle though, as you say, so it will be interesting to see what the figures are when we start getting reviews and stuff.
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  9. Post #89
    Master Cheese Tactician
    The Decoy's Avatar
    August 2011
    864 Posts
    According to Tesla, the largest battery on the Model S does 300 miles with an average speed of 55 mph.
    that sounds... perfect

  10. Post #90
    IT WAS ONLY $1 SO WHY NOT BUY A TITLE?
    Tukimoshi's Avatar
    March 2007
    3,102 Posts
    that sounds... perfect
    They're generally off with testing though. Top Gear has had very varied results with testing electric
    cars, from 20km using 100km of charge, to the nearest charging station being 40km away (When you
    have 7km of charge left).

    My friend works at Nissan and drove a Leaf, in 30km he used 80km worth of range. They aren't that accurate. Batteries need to improve drastically for them to be worth it.

  11. Post #91
    We're made of star-stuff
    LarparNar's Avatar
    February 2009
    9,990 Posts
    They're generally off with testing though. Top Gear has had very varied results with testing electric
    cars, from 20km using 100km of charge, to the nearest charging station being 40km away (When you
    have 7km of charge left).

    My friend works at Nissan and drove a Leaf, in 30km he used 80km worth of range. They aren't that accurate. Batteries need to improve drastically for them to be worth it.
    Tesla is usually very accurate on their numbers, this is for the Roadster:

    Wikipedia posted:
    The EPA combined range (specifying distance traveled between charges) measured in February 2008 for early production Roadsters was 231 mi (372 km) city, 224 mi (360 km) highway, and 227 mi (365 km) combined (city/highway).[95]
    Tesla says it's range is 245 miles, so the EPA range is 92.65% of that.
    (With the same rate, the 300-mile Model S would go 278 miles)


    It's all about how you drive it though. Using the regen system, not always accelerating unnecessarily fast, sticking to the speed limit (or at least not too far above it).

    If you're only going 100 miles though, you suddenly don't have to worry as much.
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  12. Post #92
    Dennab
    December 2009
    1,739 Posts
    Tesla is usually very accurate on their numbers, this is for the Roadster:



    Tesla says it's range is 245 miles, so the EPA range is 92.65% of that.
    (With the same rate, the 300-mile Model S would go 278 miles)


    It's all about how you drive it though. Using the regen system, not always accelerating unnecessarily fast, sticking to the speed limit (or at least not too far above it).

    If you're only going 100 miles though, you suddenly don't have to worry as much.
    I wouldn't believe it, especially after hearing about all the problems with the roadsters that Tesla has been trying to cover up.
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  13. Post #93
    We're made of star-stuff
    LarparNar's Avatar
    February 2009
    9,990 Posts
    I wouldn't believe it, especially after hearing about all the problems with the roadsters that Tesla has been trying to cover up.
    None of this has anything to do with the bricking issue (which nobody knows what Tesla has done with on the Model S), and I don't see how Tesla "trying to cover up problems" would affect the EPA numbers.
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  14. Post #94
    We're made of star-stuff
    LarparNar's Avatar
    February 2009
    9,990 Posts
    Some more photos of the Model X and interior of the Model S have surfaced, and it's quite interesting:


    Model X

    Back seats on the Model X


    Dashboard

    (Note the screens behind the wheel, there are cameras instead of side mirrors, and it shows up there)

    Outside


    More dash

    Note that the design is somewhat changed from the Model S, the top of the screen seems to float a bit. (Improvement IMO).

    More



    Model S

    Final steering wheel.

    Note the drive selector (gear shifter) behind the steering wheel there. Looks like it's down for Drive, up for Reverse and in for Park.

    Center screen

    Seems to somewhat attract fingerprints, but note that the flash used to take the photo will make the screen darker and make fingerprints more visible.

    "Instrument Cluster"


    Luggage storage?

    There will apparently be accessories that you can get for this huge lump of open space, or you could use it for your bag.
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  15. Post #95
    Gold Member
    Second-gear-of-mgear's Avatar
    June 2009
    6,054 Posts
    Now that car would be perfect if it had a small generator to power shit so it doesn't drain the battery.

  16. Post #96
    thattaco's Avatar
    November 2010
    832 Posts
    Now that car would be perfect if it had a small generator to power shit so it doesn't drain the battery.
    agree but i still kinda like it.

  17. Post #97
    Gold Member
    OogalaBoogal's Avatar
    November 2008
    4,030 Posts
    Musk just tweeted that the Model S Endurance Testing car just hit over 150,000 miles. This car looks like it will last.

  18. Post #98
    Superwafflez's Avatar
    April 2010
    2,236 Posts
    Electricity is so expensive in Australia that this will never come to fruition.

  19. Post #99
    We're made of star-stuff
    LarparNar's Avatar
    February 2009
    9,990 Posts
    Electricity is so expensive in Australia that this will never come to fruition.
    What's your kWh rate? Chances are it's still cheaper than gasoline per mile.

  20. Post #100
    Superwafflez's Avatar
    April 2010
    2,236 Posts
    What's your kWh rate? Chances are it's still cheaper than gasoline per mile.
    Varies on time of day, peak is crazy, off peak not so much.

    Then the new carbon tax is coming in... which is going to be passed on to us end customers.

    Some poorer people live without using house lights...

  21. Post #101
    We're made of star-stuff
    LarparNar's Avatar
    February 2009
    9,990 Posts
    Varies on time of day, peak is crazy, off peak not so much.

    Then the new carbon tax is coming in... which is going to be passed on to us end customers.

    Some poorer people live without using house lights...
    You would generally charge the car during off-peak, but you can do the maths yourself I guess, the 85kWh battery takes you 480km driven economically, so let's say 300 worst case.

    Multiply 85 with the kWh price, and divide it by 300 to get the cost per kilometer.

    Most ICE vehicles have some manufacturer stats on how much gas they use per kilometer, it varies a lot, but you can figure out the price per kilometer there pretty easily as well.

    I can hardly imagine it being much more expensive than gasoline, especially if you consider the reduced maintenance costs, and possible local incentives.

  22. Post #102
    Gold Member
    OogalaBoogal's Avatar
    November 2008
    4,030 Posts
    Fisker has a new fancy plug in hybrid. They are guessing at a $40,000 starting price, "about the same as an Audi A5." It will have around a 30 Mile range on the batteries, and it's extended range motor is a 4 cylinder sourced from BMW.


  23. Post #103
    piranhamatt's Avatar
    July 2008
    582 Posts
    Saw a roadster on Sunday, I thought it was rolling with the engine off... Soo silent

  24. Post #104
    We're made of star-stuff
    LarparNar's Avatar
    February 2009
    9,990 Posts
    Fisker has a new fancy plug in hybrid. They are guessing at a $40,000 starting price, "about the same as an Audi A5." It will have around a 30 Mile range on the batteries, and it's extended range motor is a 4 cylinder sourced from BMW.

    I hope they fix the problems from the Karma.

    Like the whole think breaking, slow as shit touchscreen, and incredibly tight interior.
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  25. Post #105
    Dennab
    December 2009
    1,739 Posts
    I hope they fix the problems from the Karma.

    Like the whole think breaking, slow as shit touchscreen, and incredibly tight interior.
    Damn you are one hell of a Tesla fanboy.
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  26. Post #106
    We're made of star-stuff
    LarparNar's Avatar
    February 2009
    9,990 Posts
    Damn you are one hell of a Tesla fanboy.
    I'll certainly admit that I like the Tesla's more, but Fisker got some potential going for them.
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  27. Post #107
    Gold Member
    Second-gear-of-mgear's Avatar
    June 2009
    6,054 Posts
    I think they have more going for them TBH. Just using batteries isn't a very good idea for current generation cars. Too little power, too much weight.
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  28. Post #108
    We're made of star-stuff
    LarparNar's Avatar
    February 2009
    9,990 Posts
    Well, the first Model S cars have been delivered and a few have been driven by journalists. (For now they only get a short trip along a pre-designated route, so there's no full fledged reviews yet.

    The Engadget journalist seemed very impressed though:

    Engadget posted:
    So what's it like to drive the Model S? In a word: amazing. There's absolutely no doubt that this is a driver's car. It inherits most of the Roadster's performance DNA but wraps it in a significantly more practical and comfortable package. We drove the performance model with the panoramic sunroof. Handling is impressive for a vehicle that weighs in a bit over 4600lbs -- thanks in great part to the low center of gravity, near 50-50 weight distribution and active air suspension. Body roll is kept well under control and there's a phenomenal amount of grip from the 21-inch summer tires. The Model S is surprisingly nimble for such a large and heavy automobile, and it doesn't sacrifice ride quality for the sake of dynamics -- it handled rough roads with composure and just the right amount of stiffness.

    Acceleration is where the Model S shines. The electric motor dishes out gobs of linear, head-snapping torque, quickly propelling you past the speed limit -- you've been warned. A pleasant, muted whine accompanies the experience and serves as a reminder that you're driving the future. Unlike cars like the Ford Focus Electric and the Toyota Prius plug-in hybrid, the Model S follows a similar strategy to BMW's ActiveE when it comes to regenerative braking. Instead of being triggered by the brake pedal, it only kicks in when you lift off the accelerator. As such, it's a lot like driving a manual transmission stuck in second gear and using engine braking to slow down. Where the ActiveE will turn the brake lights on as soon as you let go of the accelerator, the Model S relies on accelerometer readings to warn the vehicles behind you -- clever.

    Behind the wheel, The Model S feels much smaller than it is. Driving position and visibility are good, although once everything was tweaked to our liking we found that the steering wheel was interfering with our ingress and egress a little -- then again, there wasn't much time to adjust everything just right. Speaking of which, the steering wheel is nice and meaty. It provides just the right amount of resistance and effort for spirited driving, but falls a bit short in terms of feedback, like many other modern electronic steering systems. The brakes are powerful and linear, with decent pedal feel -- we were able to modulate them and avoid triggering the ABS during hard braking. The cabin is pretty quiet although we did notice a little bit of wind noise coming from the driver-side frameless window in our test car. Road noise was not an issue.
    Video in source.


    Also EPA tested it and got 265 miles out of the 300 mile model, and an annual fuel cost estimate of $700. (Ford Focus 2.0 L, 4 cyl, Manual 5-spd is $1,900 as a basic comparison).

    Edited:

    Annual fuel cost based on 15 000 annual miles.
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  29. Post #109
    Gold Member
    OogalaBoogal's Avatar
    November 2008
    4,030 Posts
    The big news corps have been reviewing the Model S. The Wall Street Journal compares it to a Lambo. And the Ford GT40. I don't even.

    WSJ posted:
    THIS TESLA MODEL S thing you’ve heard so much about? You know, all-electric sedan, Silicon Valley, that guy from SpaceX? This is one amazing car. I mean, hard-core amazing. But first and foremost, gentle reader, it goes like the very stink of hell. Fifty-to-100-mph acceleration in the $97,900 Signature Performance model I drove is positively Lambo-like and…wait, let’s stop right there:

    People who like fast cars are sensualists. And screaming up through the gears of an Italian sports car—getting that flit and loft in the belly, tasting the saliva of speed—is a pleasurable and addictive sensation. They don’t call it dopamine for nothing.

    Unfortunately, in a car like a Lambo, other people can hear you being stupid for miles around. At full tilt, those cars are like civil-defense sirens, if civil-defense sirens alerted you to the presence of awful men in gold watches and track suits. It’s embarrassing.

    But in the dreamily quiet Tesla Model S, when you hit fast-forward, the film speeds up but the soundtrack doesn’t really get much louder. The pitch of the electric whine goes up, the suspension sinks down, but compared with an internal-combustion sports car—quaint thing that it is now—this car slips silently as a dagger into triple-digit speed. You can cut traffic to bits in this thing and never draw the jealous ire of your fellow motorists.

    The Signature Performance model is powered by a 416-horsepower AC synchronous electric motor producing 443 pound-feet of torque between zero and 5,100 rpm, with a zero-to-60-mph acceleration of 4.4 seconds and a quarter-mile elapsed time of 12.6 seconds. The SP package is equipped with a high-capacity drive inverter and twin 10-kilowatt-hour charging inverters for rapid recharge (about four hours). It should come equipped with a lawyer. You’re going to need one.

    The Model S—indeed, high-performance electric vehicles in general—will take some getting used to, even a new vocabulary. We currently don’t have a good term for EVs’ distinctive concentration of mass, with batteries slung low as possible and centroid to the vehicle. While traction batteries are heavy, and mass is bad for acceleration and agility, the lower center-of-gravity often compensates with higher levels of cornering, especially when a car wears rubber like the Signature Performance edition’s sticky 21-inch summer tires. How about “corner-levering mass”?

    Whatever, the Tesla’s got it in spades. The car’s flat, floorpan-mounted battery pack (85 kWh) accounts for about 30% of the significant total vehicle weight, 4,642 pounds. And yet, with a C-of-G comparable to that of a Ford GT supercar, the Tesla corners like it’s tethered with magic. What do you call that?

    I’m not going to dwell much on the back story. Elon Musk, creator of PayPal and chief executive of civilian rocketry firm SpaceX, took over Tesla in 2008 and proceeded to promise the moon and the stars for the Model S, an all-electric premium full-size sedan with up to seven seats, a claimed 300-mile range, and a base price, counting the federal $7,500 EV tax credit, of $49,900.

    At the time, Tesla was building, rather badly, small numbers of the all-electric Roadster, which was based on a modified Lotus chassis, and losing money like mad. In terms of mass-production car building, Tesla didn’t have a stick in the ground three years ago. And here we now are, looking at the Model S, which, if everything works as advertised—something I couldn’t discern in an hour-plus test drive in Los Angeles last week—would rank among the world’s best cars.

    Tesla had a little luck along the way. The 2009 acquisition of the Toyota/General Motors joint venture plant in Fremont, Calif., came with a very nice paint shop, idle stamping machines and many other production resources. It also helped that at the time the domestic car business was holding a yard sale on manufacturing equipment.

    Still, the uniquely un-sourceable Model S has obliged Tesla to do much of the car’s subassembly in-house, including all of the aluminum body and chassis stampings, most of the injection-molded plastic, the traction motor, battery pack, and more. These folks are casting their own aluminum chassis nodes, for heaven’s sake.

    The outcome of Mr. Musk’s grand experiment in vertical integration is far from certain. But the car is dope.

    At 196 inches in length, the Model S is a large car that exploits the benefits of purpose-built EV design. The hood is sleekly low—no internal-combustion engine to conceal—and the cabin floor is flat, thanks to the rear-mounted electric motor. Without an IC engine up front, the Model S doesn’t have to accommodate a big radiator. The car’s sultry front clip conceals three small heat exchangers to cool the battery/power electronics and two condensers. The lateral lower grille intakes feature active shutters to close when extra cooling isn’t needed.

    Stylistically, the Model S has something of the sinuous, languid form of a Jaguar XF, one left in the sun too long. Note the brilliant bow of brightwork around the window openings and chrome spear between the taillights. At the bidding of the Model S’s key fob, the door handles pop out from the bodywork and then retract flush with the bodywork when everyone’s aboard. The car’s B-pillars are trimmed with black-glass panels that look stunning when paired with the panoramic glass roof, and taken as a whole, seen in the California sun, the Model S is a glowing, glassine tranche of well-heeled wickedness.

    Useful, too. The front section of the car—the abandoned engine bay, if you will—provides a 5.3-cubic-foot stowage area, which Tesla calls the “frunk.” The rear hatch encloses a relatively vast 26.3 cubic feet or more than 50 cubes with the seats down. The Model S also offers optional and quite novel kids’ jump seats, for seven-passenger seating, though about that I remain dubious.

    With a structural monocoque almost entirely of riveted, extruded or cast aluminum—with a sprinkling of high-strength steel—the Model S’s lightweight construction is in line with and not radically different than high-end car makers such as Ferrari and Mercedes-Benz. Uniquely, the Tesla’s battery pack, less than 5 inches thick and the size of a coffee table, bolts to the bottom of the car, increasing structural rigidity and forming the car’s aero-optimized flat underbody. Tesla believes the Model S is the most aerodynamic road car in the world, with a 0.24 coefficient of drag, and has the most rigid car chassis in the world. Nice bit of engineering, that.

    Out on the street, suspended with the speed-adaptive air suspension, the Model S has an utterly unshakable, gantry-like vibe to it, even with the big meats in the wheel wells. And yet, given the constraints of our test drive, I can’t really describe the car’s handling. I’ll need at least three months to be sure.

    The Model S offers a choice of three battery packs: 40, 60 and 85 kWh capacity, corresponding to a highway range/acceleration of 160 miles/6.5 seconds, 230/5.9 seconds, and 300/5.6 seconds, respectively. The Signature Performance edition couples the biggest battery with those twin power inverters and hotter software.

    The Tesla’s battery pack (more than 7,000 Panasonic nickel-cathode lithium-ion 18650 cells) are warrantied for eight years and 100,000, 125,000 or unlimited miles, depending on pack size.

    The other inimitable flourish is the car’s huge, 17-inch capacitive touch-screen console, a glass-panel interface handling vehicle, climate, audio and vehicle functions. It’s the attack of the iPhone, if you like. This is the one stumble in the Model S’s draftsmanship. While this panel works beautifully—the navigation map display is especially nice—the display is embedded rather gracelessly into the leather-and-carbon trim dash.

    So, fittingly, it’s a spaceship. The Model S is the most impressive feat of American industrial engineering since, well, a couple of months ago, when Mr. Musk’s SpaceX successfully launched and recovered a spacecraft that rendezvoused with the international space station.

    Don’t get me wrong. I’m prepared for disappointment. The thing could burst into flames or be found to cause cancer of the nether regions. But right now, I have to say, I’m fairly fond of it.
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  30. Post #110
    Dennab
    December 2009
    1,739 Posts
    4,642 pounds
    Jesus dick, that thing is 300 pounds heavier than my LTD.
    I don't care if that thing has a CofG comparable to a Ford GT, it weighs 1300 pounds more than a Ford GT. There's no way that thing corners well.

    the Tesla corners like it’s tethered with magic. What do you call that?
    And yet, given the constraints of our test drive, I can’t really describe the car’s handling. I’ll need at least three months to be sure.
    Oh well that makes a lot of sense.


    Also, I'm still skeptical about the range. I've seen so many electric cars be released with bombastic range claims just to have them die halfway there (cough cough, Nissan Leaf).

  31. Post #111

    July 2011
    100 Posts
    I don't care if that thing has a CofG comparable to a Ford GT, it weighs 1300 pounds more than a Ford GT. There's no way that thing corners well.
    Take a look at the chassis and powertrain:


    That bottom panel, the battery, weighs about 700 pounds. That's 15% of the vehicles total weight right there in that slab, and it sits at the lowest point of the vehicle.

    edit: 30% apparently, according to the article above.

    Also, I'm still skeptical about the range. I've seen so many electric cars be released with bombastic range claims just to have them die halfway there (cough cough, Nissan Leaf).
    The EPA's tests are generally pretty accurate, and Tesla's figures are usually trustworthy. Nissan claimed that the Leaf had a 100-mile range but the EPA tested it and found that it was about 70 miles - a 30% difference. Tesla's estimates are usually about 10% higher than the EPA's.

  32. Post #112
    Gulen's Avatar
    December 2011
    2,003 Posts
    Those cars are nice and all, but with the lack of a transmission, what would happen if they came to a place like this?



    8% incline, it's pretty much impossible to just use your brakes, these guys tried:


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A5...n_bus_accident

  33. Post #113
    We're made of star-stuff
    LarparNar's Avatar
    February 2009
    9,990 Posts
    Those cars are nice and all, but with the lack of a transmission, what would happen if they came to a place like this?



    8% incline, it's pretty much impossible to just use your brakes
    All Tesla cars has a regen system that kicks in when you let off the accelerator, it also slows it down.

    The Engadget test driver compared it to driving a stick shift stuck in second gear, although I think that might be a slight exaggeration.

    On Model S it also has two modes, the one with most regen that the Engaget dude tried, and one with a little less regen that's more similar to cruising on an Automatic.

    Uphill is obviously not an issue due to the constant torque.

  34. Post #114

    July 2011
    100 Posts
    This is a mini-review from Jason Calacanis, the first one to receive a Model S and a friend of Elon Musk. You could call it a bit biased, but it's a fun read anyway.

    @jason: The Tesla Model S came yesterday. I took a VC and a famous founder for a ride yesterday and they both signed up and begged me to ask Elon to move them up the list (he can do that if someone cancels--they don't change the order however for VIPs--it's first come first serve I understand).

    My mini review (in progress): I have seen a reaction like this before: when someone handed you a CD and then put Pink Floyd's the wall in a huge CD player in 1986, or when someone let you hold their iphone for the first time in 2007.

    That's how people react when they're in the Tesla Model S. it's mind blowing.

    [ Disclosure: Elon and I are friends. We both invested in each other's companies five or six years ago--long before I owned a Tesla. Our kids go to birthday parties together, we have dinner sometimes and we live near each other in Los Angeles. I'm far from objective as he's a close friend and I admire him deeply as a entrepreneur. Since Steve Jobs died I consider Elon the top entrepreneur on the planet--hands down. So, this review is objective about the car--but I'm biased since I know the man. Note: I had a small amount of Tesla stock (10k shares), and I sold them after they doubled. After driving the Model S I'm thinking of buying more. ]

    Yesterday I got series #000000001. The first car available to the public. How did I get this car? It's a long story, but basically I sent a $50,000 deposit to Tesla *before* they started accepting deposits. I begged them to cash it. They did, and as Tesla Roadster owner 16 I was able to get the top slot (they gave the first 100 Roadster folks first shot at the Model S).

    The huge center display in the car is so far beyond what you expect from a car it's confounding. I opened a Google Doc of the LAUNCH Ticker and watched folks editing it in real time. Then I had my iPhone's cover art in the dashboard HUD (the drivers), along with 1st person directions--all while having what feels like two ipads on top of each other in landscape in the center console.
    You can maximize and flip windows better than on your iPad. I wish my iPad had the dual window function--and I'm certain Apple will steal the concept. It's that natural and obvious when you see it. Two windows, one iPad: go!

    The acceleration is terrifying.

    Literally. If you're a passenger not expecting it you're going to scream like you're on a roller coaster. Being in a sedan your brain expects to coast--which the S does well--but if the driver feels like laughing they can secretly push the pedal to the floor and silently the car pins passengers to their seats before they know what happened.

    Then as the world starts to blur like you're in the Millenium Falcon, you're doing 50, 60, 70 or 90 in 3, 4, 5 and 6 seconds (I have the performance model). All with no sign of stopping.
    The acceleration simply doesn't stop. SNM ('Someone not me') took it from 0 to 100 and almost stained the seats getting while getting on the freeway. Again, SNM.

    You feel like you're going to hit 88 and go back In time when the flux capacitor kicks in. It's bizarre. It's otherwordly.

    Then there are dozens of details you discover. The Frunk, which can fit your overnight bags. The center console, which can also fit an overnight bag. Each of four wheel wells that, you guessed it, can each hold an overnight bag.

    Oh yeah, there is a huge trunk that can hold two kids in jump seats or a dozen more overnight bags. With no engine, unlike a normal car, there is a lot more room. It's an SUV in a sedan's clothing.

    The storage is absurd.

    Oh yeah, there are cute little crew ports hidden on the roof under tiny flippable covers for bike racks and ski racks--and who knows what else Tesla will dream up.

    This is the future delivered early, and it sets a standard that will keep the CEOs of Toyota and Mercedes up at night. Perhaps that's why they invested $100M each in the company two years ago. They understood they simply can't catch this comet--so they might as well grab a piece.
    This car will sell wildly beyond expectations like the iPhone and iPad did, and if Musk can make a $30K version it will become the Apple of cars.

    best @jason (After 24 hours)
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  35. Post #115

    July 2011
    100 Posts
    Inside Line has done a track test of the Model S Performance, here are the stats:
    Vehicle: 2012 Tesla Model S
    Odometer: 2,185
    Date: 8/14/2012
    Driver: Mike Monticello
    Price: $94,350 (base price)


    Specifications:
    Drive Type: Transverse, rear-motor, rear-wheel drive
    Transmission Type: Single-speed direct drive
    Engine Type: 310 kW, three-phase four-pole electric
    Redline (rpm): 7,600
    Horsepower (hp @ rpm): 416 @ 5,000
    Torque (lb-ft @ rpm): 443 @ 0
    Brake Type (front): 13.2-inch ventilated steel rotors, four-piston fixed calipers
    Brake Type (rear): 14.4-inch ventilated steel rotors, four-piston fixed calipers
    Suspension Type(front): Independent double wishbones, pneumatic springs, stabilizer bar
    Suspension Type (rear): Independent multilink, pneumatic springs, stabilizer bar
    Tire Size (front): 245/35ZR21
    Tire Size (rear): 265/35ZR21 (101Y)
    Tire Brand: Michelin
    Tire Model: Pilot Sport PS2
    Tire Type: Asymmetrical summer performance
    As Tested Curb Weight (lbs.): 4,770


    Test Results:

    Acceleration
    0-30 (sec): 2.0 (2.0 w/ TC on)
    0-45 (sec): 3.0 (3.0 w/ TC on)
    0-60 (sec): 4.3 (4.3 w/ TC on)
    0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec): 4.0 (4.0 w/ TC on)
    0-75 (sec): 6.1 (6.1 w/ TC on)
    1/4-Mile (sec @ mph): 12.6 @ 108.3 (12.6 @ 108.2 w/ TC on)

    Braking
    30-0 (ft): 27
    60-0 (ft): 108

    Handling
    Slalom (mph): 66.8 (66.0 w/TC off)
    Skid Pad Lateral Acceleration (g): 0.86 (0.86 w/TC on)
    Db @ Idle: 35.4
    Db @ Full Throttle: 64.2
    Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 61.2
    Full article is here:
    http://www.insideline.com/tesla/mode...rack-test.html

    edit: YouTube video
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  36. Post #116
    Gold Member
    OogalaBoogal's Avatar
    November 2008
    4,030 Posts
    Guess what won the MotorTrend Car of the Year award?

    The Model S. Hell yeah.

    MotorTrend posted:
    The 2013 Motor Trend Car of the Year is one of the quickest American four-doors ever built. It drives like a sports car, eager and agile and instantly responsive. But it's also as smoothly effortless as a Rolls-Royce, can carry almost as much stuff as a Chevy Equinox, and is more efficient than a Toyota Prius. Oh, and it'll sashay up to the valet at a luxury hotel like a supermodel working a Paris catwalk. By any measure, the Tesla Model S is a truly remarkable automobile, perhaps the most accomplished all-new luxury car since the original Lexus LS 400. That's why it's our 2013 Car of the Year.
    Wait. No mention of the astonishing inflection point the Model S represents -- that this is the first COTY winner in the 64-year history of the award not powered by an internal combustion engine? Sure, the Tesla's electric powertrain delivers the driving characteristics and packaging solutions that make the Model S stand out against many of its internal combustion engine peers. But it's only a part of the story. At its core, the Tesla Model S is simply a damned good car you happen to plug in to refuel.

    Engineering Excellence
    Tesla claims it has 250 patents covering the Model S, and more pending. The body is light, thanks to its all-aluminum construction, yet strong and stiff. The front and rear suspension are also mostly aluminum. At the rear are extruded rear suspension links that provide the strength of forgings at much lower cost, while up front are hollow-cast front knuckles that weigh 25 percent less than a conventional knuckle of similar strength.
    The electric motor sits between the rear wheels, contributing greatly to the 47/53-percent front/rear weight distribution. The motor is an AC-induction type, the basic principles of which were demonstrated in the 1880s by Nikola Tesla himself, and it doesn't need expensive rare earth metals. .
    Tesla offers three lithium-ion battery packs for the Model S -- 40-kW-hr, 60-kW-hr, and 85-kW-hr -- that are claimed to provide ranges of 140, 200, and 265 miles, respectively. The base 85-kW-hr powertrain delivers a stout 362 hp and 325 lb-ft of torque, while the performance version makes 416 hp and 443 lb-ft.The battery packs are assembled at Tesla's plant in Fremont, California, using Panasonic cells with nickel-cobalt-aluminum cathodes. Situated under the floor, the battery pack is a stressed member that further improves torsional rigidity, and helps lower the car's center of gravity to just 17.5 inches, about the same as a Ford GT's.

    Advancement in Design
    Refreshingly, Tesla designer Franz von Holzhausen resisted the temptation to make the Model S look different for the sake of being different to call attention to the fact it has an electric motor. Former GM design boss Wayne Cherry, a consultant judge this year, summed up the exterior design theme of the Model S as "somewhat safe and conservative," but noted the beautifully executed design-enhancing proportions, the excellent stance and gesture, and the harmony and grace of its lines. His only criticism? "The front end is a missed opportunity to establish brand identity."
    The Model S takes advantage of the packaging opportunities afforded by the compact EV powertrain. The cabin is roomy, though the raked roofline impinges on rear-seat headroom. With no engine up front, the "hood" covers a useful luggage space, and the rear hatch opens to a cavernous load area that gets even bigger when you fold the rear seats flat. Total load capacity is 63.4 cubic feet, not that far shy of the 63.7 cubic-feet in a Chevy Equinox, and despite its rakish looks, the Model S is the first hatchback in the world to offer third-row seating.
    A number of the interior design solutions need more polish. However, all judges were impressed with the Tesla's unique user interface, courtesy of the giant touch screen in the center of the car that controls everything from the air-conditioning to the nav system to the sound system to the car's steering, suspension, and brake regeneration settings. The system means the Model S interior is virtually button-free, and the car has been effectively future-proofed: More functionality is only a software update away.

    Efficiency
    Whatever what you use -- gasoline, electricity, hamsters in a wheel -- making a vehicle move requires the consumption of energy. The laws of physics are immutable. The question is, how efficiently can it be done?
    In the case of the Tesla Model S, the answer is very. The best energy consumption figure we've returned is 118 mpg-e for a 212-mile run from the eastern fringe of the Los Angeles sprawl to Las Vegas, Nevada. For the 313 miles of road loops during the COTY evaluation, where the car was driven at normal speeds by all the judges with the air-conditioning running, it averaged 74.5 mpg-e.
    Impressive numbers, especially considering the 4766-pound Tesla Model S Signature Performance version will nail 60 mph in 4.0 seconds and the quarter in 12.4 seconds at 112.5 mph, with a top speed of 133 mph.

    Safety
    In terms of active safety, the Tesla Model S is at the top of the class. With all the car's mass down low and between the wheels, the Model S is a very stable platform, and the electric motor's instant torque means the car is quick and responsive in traffic and during overtaking moves. The stability control and anti-lock braking systems are calibrated to the unique instant-on torque and regenerative braking characteristics of an EV.
    When a crash does happen, the usual complement of passive safety devices, including an array of airbags, kick into play. Beyond that, clever engineering such as the double octagon extrusions front and rear, and the immensely strong roof structure, is working to protect you. Tesla claims the Model S outperforms federal crash standards, having been impact-tested at 50 mph (the mandatory standard is 35 mph) and exceeding the roof crush requirement by a factor of 2.

    Value
    With a base price of $58,570 (before a federal tax credit of $7500), the 40-kW-hr Model S is competitive with entry-level Mercedes-Benz E-Class, BMW 5 Series, and Audi A6. A loaded 85-kW-hr Signature Performance series, like the $106,900 (before tax credit) car Tesla founder Elon Musk drives, is priced right on BMW M5 and the Mercedes CLS63 AMG -- cars of similar performance, remember.
    Tesla buyers likely don't need to watch their pennies, but the calculation's worth doing all the same: At an average of 74.5 mpg-e, the Model S costs about 6 cents a mile to run, based on California's 13 cents per kW-hr.

    Performance of Intended Function
    The Tesla Model S nails the formula established by the German brands that currently dominate the midsize luxury sedan sector. It's fast and great to drive. It's well-equipped and high-tech. It won't look out of place rolling up the drive of a leafy country club or at the curb of a hip hotel. It's a credible alternative to a Mercedes, BMW, or Audi for someone who lives in metroplexes such as Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, and Atlanta.
    We've covered more than 1400 miles in cars equipped with the 85-kW-hr battery pack, and can confirm that version of the Model S will easily handle 200 miles of mixed city, suburban, and freeway driving without any hypermiling techniques. For the typical daily diet of commuting and short trips (the average American drives about 40 miles a day), the Model S is a compelling proposition.
    The mere fact the Tesla Model S exists at all is a testament to innovation and entrepreneurship, the very qualities that once made the American automobile industry the largest, richest, and most powerful in the world. That the 11 judges unanimously voted the first vehicle designed from the wheels up by a fledgling automaker the 2013 Motor Trend Car of the Year should be cause for celebration. America can still make things. Great things.

    Supercharge It!: Long-distance driving in the Model S
    By: Kim Reynolds
    Even with its remarkable, 85-kW-hr battery, the Model S' EPA-certified 265-mile range is about 100 miles short of spanning California's two biggest cities. And if you can't manage that, how would you ever get to New York? To answer that, Tesla recently unveiled the first five of what it calls its Supercharger stations along routes connecting L.A. to Las Vegas and San Francisco, and S.F. to Reno. (A sixth is located at SpaceX's Hawthorne factory.)

    These Superchargers are veritable electron fire hoses, delivering DC energy directly into the battery at rates up to 80 kW, bypassing the on-board 10-kW (or optional 20-kW) inverter(s), and gaining 150 to 160 miles in range in 30 minutes. As Tesla says, stops on long drives often take that long anyway, if you use the bathroom, stretch, and grab a snack.
    Moreover, charging will be partially sun-powered -- the stations' roofs are covered with Musk's Solar City photovoltaic cells, but don't worry, you can recharge at night -- and it's permanently free to Model S owners with the 85 kW-hr battery, and 60 kW-hr cars with supercharging capability. As Musk says, as long as you bring enough sandwiches and drinks, you could drive across the country without your wallet. Tesla predicts 100 stations nationwide by 2015.
    At the stations' unveiling, Musk compared them in importance to SpaceX's docking with the International Space Station. That could turn out to be an underestimation.

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  37. Post #117
    Dennab
    December 2009
    1,739 Posts
    Guess what won the MotorTrend Car of the Year award?

    The Model S. Hell yeah.
    And with that, the Model S joins the ranks of great cars to have won the award.
    It is now in the company of cars such as these:





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  38. Post #118
    Gold Member
    MrWhite's Avatar
    March 2010
    3,321 Posts
    Don't you be knocking the PT. It may be one of the only good-looking minivans ever made.
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  39. Post #119
    Gold Member
    Del91's Avatar
    October 2010
    8,966 Posts
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  40. Post #120
    Best Gamemode Ever
    Deadman123's Avatar
    July 2011
    1,496 Posts
    He rebuilds the engine and puts the TBI back on it, the fuck?