1. Post #281
    SCREAMS 4 DA FURRY PORN
    RobbL's Avatar
    December 2011
    6,087 Posts
    Well, yes, considering:
    -Your first sentence is, by definition, wrong, unless you have a very odd definition of "obvious", since gender involves gender roles, behavioral patterns, etc., which are rather apparent
    And regarding this, I think through the eyes of a 2 year old the line between theobservable gender-wise differences between males and females is a very blurred one
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows Vista Anonymous Proxy Show Events Dumb Dumb x 1 (list)

  2. Post #282
    Gold Member
    Kyle902's Avatar
    September 2008
    7,713 Posts
    Btw, all i'm saying is that in my opinion children as young as 2 don't have a good grasp of the concept of gender and therefore cannot decide for sure that their gender does not match their sex
    Yes they may show certain symptoms, but how can they tie these down to the fact that they may be transgender? To some extent how can their parents? These symptoms could be down to any number psychological conditions and mental disorders.
    That's all i'm saying.
    You act like you know more then professionals or people who have actual experience with GID. I have consulted my grandfather on the subject for a while now. He's been a mental health professional for around 20 years. I'm tempted to make him post in this thread just to silence the stupidity.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Winner Winner x 7 (list)

  3. Post #283
    Yandere Princess
    Alice3173's Avatar
    April 2010
    22,232 Posts
    Btw, all i'm saying is that in my opinion children as young as 2 don't have a good grasp of the concept of gender and therefore cannot decide for sure that their gender does not match their sex
    Yes they may show certain symptoms, but how can they tie these down to the fact that they may be transgender? To some extent how can their parents? These symptoms could be down to any number psychological conditions and mental disorders.
    That's all i'm saying.
    Yeah, cause your well thought out opinion is obviously more thoroughly thought out than the scientific facts thousands of people have devoted their lives to figuring out.
    Quit it. Seriously. Provide SCIENTIFIC fucking proof supporting what you are saying. Quit acting like an idiot or leave the thread and don't come back. It's not that difficult.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Agree Agree x 1 (list)

  4. Post #284
    Gold Member
    Kyle902's Avatar
    September 2008
    7,713 Posts
    And regarding this, I think through the eyes of a 2 year old the observable gender-wise differences between males and females is a very blurred line
    You're nitpicking what parts of arguments you respond to. If you have no interest in the process of debate then be gone.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Agree Agree x 2 (list)

  5. Post #285
    SCREAMS 4 DA FURRY PORN
    RobbL's Avatar
    December 2011
    6,087 Posts
    I'm not nitpicking, that point expresses a large part of my argument
    And regarding everything else, just because something has potential evidence doesnt mean you can't argue against it
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Anonymous Proxy Show Events Dumb Dumb x 9 (list)

  6. Post #286
    Gold Member
    Kyle902's Avatar
    September 2008
    7,713 Posts
    I'm not nitpicking, that point expresses a large part of my argument
    And regarding everything else, just because something has potential evidence doesnt mean you can't argue against it
    Way to mitigate the importance of hundreds of medical studies as "potential evidence". There is no potential. It is evidence.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Agree Agree x 1 (list)

  7. Post #287
    Yandere Princess
    Alice3173's Avatar
    April 2010
    22,232 Posts
    I'm not nitpicking, that point expresses a large part of my argument
    And regarding everything else, just because something has potential evidence doesnt mean you can't argue against it
    I think you're mixing up your poorly reasoned opinions and scientific evidence.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Agree Agree x 2 (list)

  8. Post #288
    SCREAMS 4 DA FURRY PORN
    RobbL's Avatar
    December 2011
    6,087 Posts
    Way to mitigate the importance of hundreds of medical studies as "potential evidence". There is no potential. It is evidence.
    What I meant is evidence has the potential not to be correct
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Anonymous Proxy Show Events Dumb Dumb x 8Funny Funny x 1 (list)

  9. Post #289
    Gold Member
    Kyle902's Avatar
    September 2008
    7,713 Posts
    What I meant is evidence has the potential not to be correct

    You know that applies to all evidence for everything including gravity right.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Agree Agree x 1 (list)

  10. Post #290
    Gold Member
    Xenocidebot's Avatar
    April 2006
    5,066 Posts
    And regarding this, I think through the eyes of a 2 year old the line between theobservable gender-wise differences between males and females is a very blurred one
    Except, if you would finish reading my post, you're wrong.
    http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/917990-overview#aw2aab6b3 posted:
    Eventually, the concept of gender constancy develops in the growing child. This refers to the ability of a child to concretely differentiate between the genders, frequently occurring by age 2 years, at which time the first expressions of gender identity are commonly made.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Agree Agree x 1 (list)

  11. Post #291
    Proudly supporting the JIDF
    Dennab
    July 2010
    22,111 Posts
    How effective is gender changing surgery now if done before/on the onset of puberty anyways? It seems to be improving with technological advances.

  12. Post #292
    SCREAMS 4 DA FURRY PORN
    RobbL's Avatar
    December 2011
    6,087 Posts
    You know that applies to all evidence for everything including gravity right.
    The evidence for gravity is solid- we can observe its effects. But the evidence were talking about here is much more ambiguous and there are many many variables involved in getting it
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Anonymous Proxy Show Events Dumb Dumb x 6 (list)

  13. Post #293
    Yandere Princess
    Alice3173's Avatar
    April 2010
    22,232 Posts
    What I meant is evidence has the potential not to be correct
    And your terribly reasoned opinion is has even more potential to not be correct.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Agree Agree x 1 (list)

  14. Post #294
    MEGA SENPAI KAWAII UGUU~~ =^_^=
    Megafan's Avatar
    September 2008
    14,608 Posts
    What I meant is evidence has the potential not to be correct
    Anything has the potential to be/become incorrect, but that doesn't mean you should assume it is, especially not as the basis for an argument.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Agree Agree x 7 (list)

  15. Post #295
    SCREAMS 4 DA FURRY PORN
    RobbL's Avatar
    December 2011
    6,087 Posts
    I admit I do get carried away arguing online, especially with stuff like this.
    The problem with the issue of gender is it's so bloody confusing to people who aren't experts in the area.
    As I understand it gender is masculinity and femininity. A transgender is someone who's gender does not match their sex. However, a gay man who is very feminine is not a transgender. There's something not quite right there.
    A transgender is referred to as both a male and a female depending on the context. Now we all know with any species more complex than fish an organism is either male or female.
    There's so many contradictions like this within the common knowledge of this subject and that's where most of the arguments on it spring up.
    Also, so often the facts are warped by political correctness and stuff like that which doesnt help
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Anonymous Proxy Show Events Disagree Disagree x 2 (list)

  16. Post #296
    Gold Member
    Helix Alioth's Avatar
    August 2009
    2,566 Posts
    What I meant is evidence has the potential not to be correct
    It doesn't matter whether something has the potential "not to be correct" (I like how you use a bunch of prepositions to make your argument sound intelligent), what matters is what leads to more happiness and less depression. Allow me to break this down for you:

    If the child is allowed to decide her gender no permanent damage is made, if you seriously want to control what makes up someones personality you're moving into the category of thought police.
    If the child is allowed to start puberty suppression at ~8 no permanent damage is made, everything is only paused and puberty immediately starts progressing as soon as the medication is stopped.
    If the child is not allowed to start puberty suppression at ~8 she will suffer from dysphoria of that which you can't even comprehend.
    If the child is allowed to start hormones at ~15 and has felt that she was in fact a she for a reasonable amount of time (something like 4 years) she'll be able to live as herself and stop a constant torture that spanned across ~13 years. If she regrets doing this once she's an adult she has bigger things to worry about than her appearance (sanity).
    If the child is not allowed to start hormones and she truly is a she, she'll be depressed, anxious, socially isolated, and suicidal, with the chances of suicide increasing over time.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Agree Agree x 12 (list)

  17. Post #297
    Yandere Princess
    Alice3173's Avatar
    April 2010
    22,232 Posts
    As I understand it gender is masculinity and femininity. A transgender is someone who's gender does not match their sex. However, a gay man who is very feminine is not a transgender. There's something not quite right there.
    That's not correct. Gender is the mental aspect of sex basically. A feminine gay guy could still have a masculine mind whereas a mtf transgender person would have a male body but a female mind.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Agree Agree x 3 (list)

  18. Post #298
    Awesome Member
    Dennab
    January 2006
    40,352 Posts
    Also, so often the facts are warped by political correctness and stuff like that which doesnt help
    political correctness?
    no-one's gonna take you seriously if you use Rush Limbaugh's words
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Funny Funny x 2Agree Agree x 1 (list)

  19. Post #299
    SCREAMS 4 DA FURRY PORN
    RobbL's Avatar
    December 2011
    6,087 Posts
    That's not correct. Gender is the mental aspect of sex basically. A feminine gay guy could still have a masculine mind whereas a mtf transgender person would have a male body but a female mind.
    Ah ok.
    To me what you're saying sounds like masculinity and femininity can be contrary to gender, and as well as that I already know gender can be contrary to sex. Now this implies that gender does not determine masculine or feminine behaviour which contradicts loads of stuff said. Someone quoted from some source earlier that said at 2 children can differentiate between gender, but going by what you said gender is shouldn't the quote say masculine and feminine behaviour or sex instead of gender? It's confusing haha.

    Edited:

    political correctness?
    no-one's gonna take you seriously if you use Rush Limbaugh's words
    Who?
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Anonymous Proxy Show Events Dumb Dumb x 1 (list)

  20. Post #300
    I once worked at a sperm bank, the food was terrible
    The Baconator's Avatar
    April 2011
    9,185 Posts
    you don't wanna know
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Agree Agree x 1 (list)

  21. Post #301
    SCREAMS 4 DA FURRY PORN
    RobbL's Avatar
    December 2011
    6,087 Posts
    you don't wanna know
    Are they American?

  22. Post #302
    ..............
    nekosune's Avatar
    February 2009
    1,827 Posts
    Are they American?
    Yes, and sadly, there is almost an 'of course'
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United Kingdom Show Events Agree Agree x 1 (list)

  23. Post #303
    Awesome Member
    Dennab
    January 2006
    40,352 Posts

  24. Post #304
    SCREAMS 4 DA FURRY PORN
    RobbL's Avatar
    December 2011
    6,087 Posts
    Yes, and sadly, there is almost an 'of course'
    Ah ok, nevermind then

    Edited:

    Btw- one more opinion...
    Now I know I'm going to get a barrage of boxes but honesty I think transgenders have a tendency to be self entitled, especially when put in the context of people born with imo worse problems like horrible deformaties and what have you.
    I can appreciate that many transgenders go through terrible stuff, but I do feel that wherever I go the transgender brigade are riding on a giant hyperbole
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Anonymous Proxy Show Events Dumb Dumb x 9 (list)

  25. Post #305
    Gold Member
    Kyle902's Avatar
    September 2008
    7,713 Posts
    Ah ok, nevermind then

    Edited:

    Btw- one more opinion...
    Now I know I'm going to get a barrage of boxes but honesty I think transgenders have a tendency to be self entitled, especially when put in the context of people born with imo worse problems like horrible deformaties and what have you.
    I can appreciate that many transgenders go through terrible stuff, but I do feel that wherever I go the transgender brigade are riding on a giant hyperbole

    I get the feeling you should watch your mouth lest you blurt out the blemish on humanity that is your brain.

    Seriously thats just a modified "Children in Africa" argument.

  26. Post #306
    MEGA SENPAI KAWAII UGUU~~ =^_^=
    Megafan's Avatar
    September 2008
    14,608 Posts
    I can appreciate that many transgenders go through terrible stuff, but I do feel that wherever I go the transgender brigade are riding on a giant hyperbole
    It's probably best you stop. That's not something people need to hear.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Agree Agree x 6 (list)

  27. Post #307
    ..............
    nekosune's Avatar
    February 2009
    1,827 Posts
    Ah ok, nevermind then

    Edited:

    Btw- one more opinion...
    Now I know I'm going to get a barrage of boxes but honesty I think transgenders have a tendency to be self entitled, especially when put in the context of people born with imo worse problems like horrible deformaties and what have you.
    I can appreciate that many transgenders go through terrible stuff, but I do feel that wherever I go the transgender brigade are riding on a giant hyperbole
    by daring to mention they are going through horrible stuff too? yes, thats true, does it change transgender'd situation in any way that being true? no. Yes there is worse, there is also a lot more better things. Just because it is not the worst thing ever to happen, does not mean it is not horrible thing to go through.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United Kingdom Show Events Agree Agree x 1 (list)

  28. Post #308
    Clops with bisousbisous daily <3
    Mr. Smartass's Avatar
    December 2010
    9,188 Posts
    I don't know why everyone's getting all worked up about this.
    While yes, some of the younger ones might be way too young, not all teenagers are immature enough to make this kind of decision.

  29. Post #309
    Yandere Princess
    Alice3173's Avatar
    April 2010
    22,232 Posts
    Btw- one more opinion...
    Now I know I'm going to get a barrage of boxes but honesty I think transgenders have a tendency to be self entitled, especially when put in the context of people born with imo worse problems like horrible deformaties and what have you.
    I can appreciate that many transgenders go through terrible stuff, but I do feel that wherever I go the transgender brigade are riding on a giant hyperbole
    Do you ever read your posts through before submitting them to make sure they're not really dumb or potentially offensive? Cause if not then you should try doing that.

  30. Post #310
    I'd buy that for a dollar
    Dennab
    September 2008
    5,876 Posts
    talk about being judgmental.
    maybe you guys should read-up on something before ejaculating and defecating your opinions?
    A lot of them are right though.
    A child has no place making these kinds of decisions.

    (User was banned for this post ("History of threadshitting w/regard to transgender issues (3rd offense)" - Megafan))
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Dumb Dumb x 9Agree Agree x 2 (list)

  31. Post #311
    MEGA SENPAI KAWAII UGUU~~ =^_^=
    Megafan's Avatar
    September 2008
    14,608 Posts
    A lot of them are right though.
    A child has no place making these kinds of decisions.
    You did not just post without reading the thread, did you?

    Seriously?

  32. Post #312
    Pomf =3
    Paige's Avatar
    October 2008
    3,571 Posts
    A lot of them are right though.
    A child has no place making these kinds of decisions.
    oh

    jetblack

    ugh
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Agree Agree x 3Disagree Disagree x 1 (list)

  33. Post #313
    Yandere Princess
    Alice3173's Avatar
    April 2010
    22,232 Posts
    You did not just post without reading the thread, did you?

    Seriously?
    Jetblack is worth ignoring in these threads. He admitted somewhere along the quote tree of this post that he purposefully makes stupid posts because he finds it funny. Most specifically in this post though.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Dumb Dumb x 1 (list)

  34. Post #314
    MEGA SENPAI KAWAII UGUU~~ =^_^=
    Megafan's Avatar
    September 2008
    14,608 Posts
    Jetblack is worth ignoring in these threads. He admitted somewhere along the quote tree of this post that he purposefully makes stupid posts because he finds it funny. Most specifically in this post though.
    I could've guessed by the emoticon. He's out of line here.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Winner Winner x 7Dumb Dumb x 1Friendly Friendly x 1 (list)

  35. Post #315
    Gold Member
    Boxbot219's Avatar
    September 2005
    2,266 Posts
    A lot of them are right though.
    A child has no place making these kinds of decisions.
    So you believe this child has no place in making the decision to be evaluated by a trained doctor to go through puberty blocking therapy when he begins to go through puberty.

  36. Post #316
    Gold Member
    Da_Maniac_'s Avatar
    November 2010
    5,588 Posts
    Ah ok, nevermind then

    Edited:

    Btw- one more opinion...
    Now I know I'm going to get a barrage of boxes but honesty I think transgenders have a tendency to be self entitled, especially when put in the context of people born with imo worse problems like horrible deformaties and what have you.
    I can appreciate that many transgenders go through terrible stuff, but I do feel that wherever I go the transgender brigade are riding on a giant hyperbole
    Just because it could be worse doesn't mean you can't complain.

  37. Post #317
    Impact1986's Avatar
    December 2011
    1,478 Posts
    As long as those kids are diagnosed with it by a proven procedure, I am ok with this.

  38. Post #318
    Gold Member
    FlakAttack's Avatar
    November 2006
    5,772 Posts
    Btw- one more opinion...
    Now I know I'm going to get a barrage of boxes but honesty I think transgenders have a tendency to be self entitled, especially when put in the context of people born with imo worse problems like horrible deformaties and what have you.
    I can appreciate that many transgenders go through terrible stuff, but I do feel that wherever I go the transgender brigade are riding on a giant hyperbole
    You know, there are studies that actually say transgender surgery is not an effective solution for many cases of gender identity disorder right? You don't have to say stupid things like this to fight it. Now you just look bad.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 Canada Show Events Disagree Disagree x 2Agree Agree x 1Dumb Dumb x 1 (list)

  39. Post #319
    Head over heels in love with Pudding~
    Dennab
    January 2012
    5,547 Posts
    It doesn't matter whether something has the potential "not to be correct" (I like how you use a bunch of prepositions to make your argument sound intelligent), what matters is what leads to more happiness and less depression. Allow me to break this down for you:

    If the child is allowed to decide her gender no permanent damage is made, if you seriously want to control what makes up someones personality you're moving into the category of thought police.
    If the child is allowed to start puberty suppression at ~8 no permanent damage is made, everything is only paused and puberty immediately starts progressing as soon as the medication is stopped.
    If the child is not allowed to start puberty suppression at ~8 she will suffer from dysphoria of that which you can't even comprehend.
    If the child is allowed to start hormones at ~15 and has felt that she was in fact a she for a reasonable amount of time (something like 4 years) she'll be able to live as herself and stop a constant torture that spanned across ~13 years. If she regrets doing this once she's an adult she has bigger things to worry about than her appearance (sanity).
    If the child is not allowed to start hormones and she truly is a she, she'll be depressed, anxious, socially isolated, and suicidal, with the chances of suicide increasing over time.
    It's two years over here in Canada.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 Anonymous Proxy Show Events Agree Agree x 1 (list)

  40. Post #320
    Pomf =3
    Paige's Avatar
    October 2008
    3,571 Posts
    You know, there are studies that actually say transgender surgery is not an effective solution for many cases of gender identity disorder right? You don't have to say stupid things like this to fight it. Now you just look bad.
    I'd like some source on this bullshit you're spewing
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Dumb Dumb x 1Agree Agree x 1 (list)