1. Post #1
    Mattk50's Avatar
    April 2010
    4,370 Posts
    [release]Cop Identified in Scott Olsen Incident?
    Video and police records indicate that Oakland Police Officer Robert Roche threw a stun grenade at protesters trying to help the injured Iraq War vet.

    One of the most indelible images of the Occupy movement to date is that of Marine veteran Scott Olsen being carried away from a skirmish line of riot police at 14th Street and Broadway on October 25 in Oakland. Stunned and bleeding from an ugly gash on his forehead, the 24-year-old Wisconsin native had been struck in the head by an unknown projectile during the first salvo of tear gas, flash-bang grenades, and less-than-lethal munitions fired at hundreds of Occupy Oakland supporters facing off against Oakland police and several other Bay Area law enforcement agencies called in on mutual aid.

    Video from the tear gas-soaked night of the 25th shows a prone Olsen lying in front of metal barricades and police in riot gear. As several protesters ran to Olsen's aid, someone from the cluster of police appears to lob a flash-bang grenade into the crowd gathered around the young veteran. The stun grenade explodes amid a cloud of tear gas and deafening noise, scattering Olsen's rescuers.

    The footage of the flash-bang grenade exploding practically on top of Olsen and his rescuers, as well as dramatic video of a stunned and bloody Olsen being carried away from the intersection, went viral within hours, propelling Occupy Oakland to international attention and setting the stage for the November 2nd General Strike.

    In the weeks and months afterward, rumors and accusations flew about the identity of the officer who fired the projectile that wounded Olsen, and the one who threw the concussion grenade on top of him. Rumors circulated on the Internet that either a San Francisco sheriff's deputy or an officer from the Palo Alto Police Department was responsible. Members of Anonymous even went so far as to publish pictures and the personal information of a San Francisco sheriff's deputy they believe tossed the stun grenade at Olsen.

    But an extensive review of video footage and Oakland Police Department records by this reporter indicates that Robert Roche, an acting sergeant in the Oakland Police Department and member of OPD's "Tango Teams," threw the flash-bang at Olsen and his rescuers. It's also not the first time that Roche's actions have come under scrutiny. Police records show that Roche had previously killed three people in the line of duty.

    In one clip of footage shot on October 25 by KTVU, the camera zooms in on a helmeted, gas-mask wearing officer in OPD insignia pointing a shotgun at the crowd. Olsen's inert body is also visible in front of the barriers. Another video clip shows the same officer training his shotgun on the crowd, lowering the firearm as a crowd gathers around Olsen, and stepping back behind a line of San Francisco sheriff's deputies on the barricade line. A grenade is then tossed at Olsen's body as rescuers arrive.

    According to former San Francisco Sheriff Mike Hennessey and Sergeant Kara Apple, a Palo Alto Police spokeswoman, officers from neither agency were equipped with less-than-lethal shotguns or flash-bang grenades that night. A list of OPD crowd-control munitions published by Al Jazeera last year includes the Remington .357 shotgun and two types of CS or pepper spray-loaded blast grenades.

    Two stripes and a star, OPD's insignia for acting sergeants, are visible on the officer's left sleeve. In both clips, the officer is holding his shotgun with his right hand on the trigger, his helmet visor is up and the numbers "35" are visible on his helmet. According to an OPD roster of the three-digit helmet numbers assigned to individual officers and the personnel detail for October 25, Officer Robert Roche is the only one with a helmet number beginning with "35" who was assigned to a Tango Team that night. Roche's helmet number that night was "357," according to OPD records.

    Three attorneys who reviewed the two clips mentioned above concur that the shotgun-wielding officer is the same in both clips. "From the positioning of that officer in the line and his weapon, it appears it was likely the same cop who tossed the grenade at the medics trying to help Scott Olsen," said R. Michael Flynn, president of the San Francisco Chapter of the National Lawyers Guild. Jim Chanin, one of the two attorneys who have overseen OPD's federal consent decree since 2003, concurred. "His movements and appearance strongly suggest that it's the same officer that threw the grenade," Chanin said. Chanin also observed that the officer's helmet number began with "35."

    Rachel Lederman, another NLG-affiliated attorney, also believes the officer is the same and identifiable by the "35" on his helmet. Lederman characterized the officer's actions as "illegal" and "evil." Tossing a flash-bang grenade into a crowd and at a wounded person is "not only improper under [OPD's] crowd control policy the guy should be fired," Lederman said.

    Sergeant Chris Bolton, chief of staff to Police Chief Howard Jordan, said the investigation into the Olsen incident is ongoing. "Any known or alleged uses of force against Mr. Olsen are assigned to an independent investigator," Bolton said in a statement. "Based on available video, photographs, and reports, the department has identified several officers that they are subjects of those open investigations." Bolton added, however, that "no investigative findings or discipline have been announced or imposed."

    Roche is a rifle officer who has also served in gang enforcement units. He has been involved in three fatal shootings during his career. In 2006, he fatally shot seventeen-year-old Ronald Brazier after the teenager fired on Roche and two other officers. In 2007, Roche shot and killed an unarmed Jeremiah Dye in a crawlspace under an East Oakland house. Dye had run from police after his cousin shot and wounded an OPD officer during a traffic stop. In March 2008, fifteen-year-old Jose Buenrostro was shot to death by Roche and two other officers while in possession of a sawed-off rifle on 79th Avenue in East Oakland. Buenrostro's family received a $500,000 wrongful death settlement from the City of Oakland in 2010, even though police claimed that Buenrostro pointed the weapon at them. Buenrostro's family contended that he did not threaten the officers.

    Alameda County District Attorney's Office records indicate that Roche was cleared of criminal conduct in both the Brazier and Dye shootings.

    Roche and Sergeant Ronald Holmgren, who supervised Tango Team 2 during the October 25 crowd control actions, were not assigned to the Tango detail on the evening of the November 2 General Strike, according to Oakland Police Department records. However, Roche was photographed on the street during the January 28 confrontation with Occupy Oakland protesters, shotgun in hand.

    OPD's "Tango teams," or tactical teams, have been at the heart of some of the most intense clashes of the Occupy Oakland movement (see "Oakland Used Violent Cops Against Occupy," 12/21/2012, "). Aside from the Olsen incident, video from the evening of the November 2 General Strike shows an unidentified OPD officer wearing a rucksack emblazoned with "Tango Team" striking US Army veteran Kayvan Sabeghi with a baton. Sabeghi was later hospitalized for a ruptured spleen.
    [/release]

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  2. Post #2
    zteven3000's Avatar
    October 2011
    197 Posts
    Roche shot and killed an unarmed Jeremiah Dye in a crawlspace under an East Oakland house.
    Wow, thats terrible.
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  3. Post #3
    Herpetologist
    imptastick's Avatar
    June 2010
    5,039 Posts
    I would be suing the officer in civil court and petitioning the court to file charges in criminal court.
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  4. Post #4
    Sorry about the downtime, now buy shit.
    CrispexOps's Avatar
    February 2010
    1,588 Posts
    As much as I think the Occupy Movement was useless, I don't think it's right what happened. This officer should be thrown into jail for the murder of an unarmed man and the assault of another.
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  5. Post #5
    Gold Member
    Murkrow's Avatar
    April 2005
    4,836 Posts
    Wow, thats terrible.
    Dye had run from police after his cousin shot and wounded an OPD officer during a traffic stop.
    Not saying that it's justifiable, but imagining the circumstances, many would probably have reacted the same if they were assuming he was armed as well. Also considering he was in a life threatening situation before at least once, he was likely very jumpy.

    Not trying to be the devil's advocate here, just saying things aren't always as clear as they're written by the media. From the (sensationalist obviously) title it makes it seem he killed them in cold blood. That doesn't seem to be the case once you read more but most people barely even read the headline before they start assuming things.

    I don't even know why I wrote this post.
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  6. Post #6
    Dennab
    May 2010
    1,014 Posts
    I think the occupy movement was pretty good, what changed everyones mind?
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  7. Post #7
    Marbalo's Avatar
    June 2011
    2,310 Posts
    I think the occupy movement was pretty good, what changed everyones mind?
    Nothing? They're still a good movement.
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  8. Post #8

    February 2012
    103 Posts
    I think the occupy movement was pretty good, what changed everyones mind?
    The corporate media has convinced everyone it died shortly after #N17.
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  9. Post #9
    Shiftyze's Avatar
    April 2011
    2,871 Posts
    What a fucking scumbag. Get this guy out of the streets and in jail.

    God damn.
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  10. Post #10
    Gold Member
    The Jackal's Avatar
    July 2006
    274 Posts
    just another bad apple guys
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  11. Post #11
    Resplendent Reenactor
    Zillamaster55's Avatar
    June 2010
    17,682 Posts
    just another bad apple guys
    Because these people obviously represent all cops.

    Who the hell do you think you are? Do you think this is some motherfucking Fascist society? Goddamn, people who jump to that assumption are pretty dense.
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  12. Post #12
    What fun is there in making sense?
    Dennab
    October 2007
    9,274 Posts
    Remington .357 shotgun
    ಠ_ಠ
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  13. Post #13
    Why so Sirius?
    SIRIUS's Avatar
    April 2009
    1,765 Posts
    Because these people obviously represent all cops.

    Who the hell do you think you are? Do you think this is some motherfucking Fascist society? Goddamn, people who jump to that assumption are pretty dense.
    how many does it take then?
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  14. Post #14
    Gold Member
    sHiBaN's Avatar
    April 2006
    4,068 Posts
    Because these people obviously represent all cops.

    Who the hell do you think you are? Do you think this is some motherfucking Fascist society? Goddamn, people who jump to that assumption are pretty dense.
    You sure? You sound pretty dense, seemingly oblivious to the obvious trend. What does it take for you to see it? Thousands of people unfairly charged and their belongings destroyed, how about a certain Scott Olsen?
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  15. Post #15
    What fun is there in making sense?
    Dennab
    October 2007
    9,274 Posts
    Yes, there are stories about bad cops very often. But remember, you are talking about a handful out of many thousands. And the news never tells the story about the cop that was polite and friendly with the person they pulled over.
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  16. Post #16
    da bloop's Avatar
    March 2008
    185 Posts
    I think the occupy movement was pretty good, what changed everyones mind?
    I used to have more faith in it, but I am tired of the vagueness. It's a good idea to preach equality among the rich and the poor, but with no specific demands or expectations, it's hard to expect any real change.

    Edited:

    Also, I'm glad they identified this sick fuck. I must have watched that video a dozen times wondering "How in the hell can he get away with this." Hope he gets sued/fired/jailed, or all of the above.

  17. Post #17
    Spooter's Avatar
    August 2007
    954 Posts
    AAAAGH GOD DAMN IT.
    Can we have a single fucking thread relating to police without a bad apple argument starting? Seriously guys.
    There are bad cops, but there are also significant flaws in the system of policing. The police force is over-militarized and power can be too easily abused with too few consequences. However, this does not amount to America transforming into a police state, anyone who makes such a claim is ignorant on a lot of levels about the issue.

    On topic: Glad the cop who did it has been identified so he can be properly investigated. Hope that the Oakland PD actually does proper investigation.
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  18. Post #18
    Gold Member
    MR-X's Avatar
    January 2005
    7,195 Posts
    What he did during the riots is still inexcusable. I don't care about his history and 3 justifiable homicides.

    He actively engaged in a target that was wounded and not a threat. Fuck, the military does not even do that shit. Then when people tried to give him medical aid he engaged them, people who didn't pose a threat. Again, the military does not engage targets providing medical attention or non-hostiles.

    He broke a lot of rules and should be charged accordingly.
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  19. Post #19
    Fight until death, shoot until empty.

    November 2009
    15,266 Posts
    Before we all jump down the officers throat for killing 3 people you should know something, just because he has killed someone doesnt mean that hes a killer. Police officers, under law, can kill someone to protect another or themselves from death/great bodily harm.
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  20. Post #20
    Gold Member
    Venezuelan's Avatar
    September 2011
    11,634 Posts
    Because these people obviously represent all cops.

    Who the hell do you think you are? Do you think this is some motherfucking Fascist society? Goddamn, people who jump to that assumption are pretty dense.
    no

    just Oakland

  21. Post #21
    What fun is there in making sense?
    Dennab
    October 2007
    9,274 Posts
    Before we all jump down the officers throat for killing 3 people you should know something, just because he has killed someone doesnt mean that hes a killer. Police officers, under law, can kill someone to protect another or themselves from death/great bodily harm.
    So can citizens. Difference is, we will be charged with a crime. They will not.
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  22. Post #22
    Fight until death, shoot until empty.

    November 2009
    15,266 Posts
    So can citizens. Difference is, we will be charged with a crime. They will not.
    Its the law. Citizens are not protected by it.

  23. Post #23
    Gold Member
    Mr. Someguy's Avatar
    March 2006
    23,895 Posts
    The first death was a man who shot at him.
    The second death was a man who was with a man who shot a cop.
    The third death was a man who pointed a gun at cops.

    OP makes it sounds like he goes around murdering random people, but all of these are justified (the second one is iffy, but it was a dangerous situation).
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  24. Post #24
    Gold Member
    cecilbdemodded's Avatar
    January 2005
    6,307 Posts
    Many cops say that they can go their whole careers and never shoot at anyone, this guy somehow managed to score three kills! Talk about lucky!
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  25. Post #25
    Gold Member
    Cone's Avatar
    August 2011
    18,644 Posts
    just another bad apple guys
    pretty much yeah

    I mean when you've got lots and lots of people doing a specific job you're going to get people who are either not particularly good at it or are downright malicious

  26. Post #26
    IKTM's Avatar
    September 2011
    783 Posts
    pretty much yeah

    I mean when you've got lots and lots of people doing a specific job you're going to get people who are either not particularly good at it or are downright malicious
    There are a lot of bad apples, but there are also a lot of barrels.

  27. Post #27
    Gold Member
    The Jackal's Avatar
    July 2006
    274 Posts
    Because these people obviously represent all cops.

    Who the hell do you think you are? Do you think this is some motherfucking Fascist society? Goddamn, people who jump to that assumption are pretty dense.
    Wow I didn't think I could make someone so mad haha, learn to read sarcasm. Still think the cop is retarded though.
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  28. Post #28
    Gold Member
    Cone's Avatar
    August 2011
    18,644 Posts
    There are a lot of bad apples, but there are also a lot of barrels.
    Again, pretty much. Considering all the countries of the world with reasonably powerful police forces, it's a wonder we don't hear more about police brutality.

    Not that power doesn't corrupt of course, just that it takes a really really long time to and anyone exposed to it without an instant reaction most likely isn't going to react later. Add that on top of all the people doing their jobs right not worth reporting on, and we're looking at a group of pretty okay people misrepresented by the ones who can shout the loudest - much like every other group on the planet.