1. Post #281
    Gold Member
    Swamphunter's Avatar
    February 2006
    418 Posts
    I find it interesting how he really pushes the fact that they had nothing to do with Simcity: Societies
    Probably because it was entirely developed by Tilted Mill, whose only claim to fame was Caesar IV and Children of the Nile.
    Maxis at the time was too busy working on stuff for Spore and helping with Sims 3.

    We've been through this when Battlefield came out. All Origin does is heartbeat check for pre-existing EA games on your computer.
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  2. Post #282
    Dennab
    January 2011
    3,540 Posts
    agent simulation sounds like it will make up for it if it's simplified anyway

    losing = fun!, it'll be more like DF

    Edited:

    Probably because it was entirely developed by Tilted Mill, whose only claim to fame was Caesar IV and Children of the Nile.
    Maxis at the time was too busy working on stuff for Spore and helping with Sims 3.




    We've been through this when Battlefield came out. All Origin does is heartbeat check for pre-existing EA games on your computer.
    what's funny is steam also has similar stuff in their eula

    fucking tinfoil hat bastards, they remind me of the conservative types

    "But it's what i've always believed you can't prove me wrong"
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  3. Post #283
    Gold Member
    T2L_Goose's Avatar
    July 2006
    11,833 Posts
    Avatar fits.

    That is all.

    (Also add cardboard to your diet.)

    Edited:

    To elaborate my point a bit, they said themselves that simulation is important and foremost feature. That is why they made this agent system. That is why they are going to release mod tools. That is why they said you can add a new simulation and drop it into ecosystem and it will work, no problems.

    Also,

    because Maxis
    Yeah okay, simulation is pretty cool, but what's the point if you have little control over said simulation. My point is that the direction of the game is toward a more casual audience, an audience who hasn't played SimCity before. As a SimCity veteran, that is bad news. It means that it will probably end up being dull and less involved. I'm not saying it's going to be a shit game, but it's not going to be anything like SimCity 4, and it certainly isn't going to raise the bar.

    You're expecting greatness from Maxis simply because of the name, when the group is a shell of its former self. Will Wright is no longer a part of it, and it seriously hasn't been around since Spore, which was a massive flop. While we are on the subject: Spore. Don't forget about Spore. You want to sit here and be a Maxis fanboy? That's fine, but you need to know that the words "More Accessible" mean bad news for those of us who enjoy complex, rich, and difficult games. If you kept up with Spore's development at all (which I assume you did, since you seem to love Maxis so much), then you know that the game they released was nothing but a watered down version of the game that everyone wanted to play. If you deny this, you're full of shit and are beyond debating with. Spore taught me to never get hyped for a game ever again, at least not one from Maxis. Will Wright himself said that Spore was, by design, "dumbed down" for a bigger audience, so this isn't something you guys can even blame on EA (which I know you will try to do).

    Maxis isn't a shining star of hope for computer games or whatever you're hoping for. Yeah, the old SimCity and Sims games were awesome, I won't deny that, and I played the fuck out of them all. But you can't just assume the game is going to be amazing because it's made by Maxis. You need to know what made the games great in the first place. If you like an easy, simple, and streamlined simulation game, then you'll probably, from the sound of it, love SimCity 5. But as it stands, even with all the neat technology they're throwing at this game, it won't mean shit if the rest of the game is a fucking snore because all the micromanaging and complexity is gone.

    This isn't a complaint about how the game is now, it's their attitude with how they want to make the game.
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  4. Post #284
    VengfulSoldier's Avatar
    March 2011
    1,744 Posts
    Yeah okay, simulation is pretty cool, but what's the point if you have little control over said simulation. My point is that the direction of the game is toward a more casual audience, an audience who hasn't played SimCity before. As a SimCity veteran, that is bad news. It means that it will probably end up being dull and less involved. I'm not saying it's going to be a shit game, but it's not going to be anything like SimCity 4, and it certainly isn't going to raise the bar.

    You're expecting greatness from Maxis simply because of the name, when the group is a shell of its former self. Will Wright is no longer a part of it, and it seriously hasn't been around since Spore, which was a massive flop. While we are on the subject: Spore. Don't forget about Spore. You want to sit here and be a Maxis fanboy? That's fine, but you need to know that the words "More Accessible" mean bad news for those of us who enjoy complex, rich, and difficult games. If you kept up with Spore's development at all (which I assume you did, since you seem to love Maxis so much), then you know that the game they released was nothing but a watered down version of the game that everyone wanted to play. If you deny this, you're full of shit and are beyond debating with. Spore taught me to never get hyped for a game ever again, at least not one from Maxis. Will Wright himself said that Spore was, by design, "dumbed down" for a bigger audience, so this isn't something you guys can even blame on EA (which I know you will try to do).

    Maxis isn't a shining star of hope for computer games or whatever you're hoping for. Yeah, the old SimCity and Sims games were awesome, I won't deny that, and I played the fuck out of them all. But you can't just assume the game is going to be amazing because it's made by Maxis. You need to know what made the games great in the first place. If you like an easy, simple, and streamlined simulation game, then you'll probably, from the sound of it, love SimCity 5. But as it stands, even with all the neat technology they're throwing at this game, it won't mean shit if the rest of the game is a fucking snore because all the micromanaging and complexity is gone.

    This isn't a complaint about how the game is now, it's their attitude with how they want to make the game.
    Dude, quick question.

    What micro-management are you TALKING about?

    Because you could only so far as fixing the budget, That's about it. From what I can tell for this game...You can actually create factories with their own specific rule-sets, houses with their own rule sets and so on.
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  5. Post #285
    Dennab
    January 2011
    3,540 Posts
    yeah when they talk about not so much micromanagement, they're talking about things like setting prices of shit at stores and all that sorta stuff (they did say that)

    which afaik, you couldn't ever do.
    Only taxes and funding, which I doubt they'll ditch

    Edited:

    not to mention you WILL be able to directly affect the simulation, by placing shit to influence it. I don't know what you're talking about, it's like you assume that all that you'll be able to do is place buildings, when they said you can end up with a garbage ridden, water-less abandoned dystopia essentially if you don't have anywhere to dump garbage and over-use the ground water sources etc etc

    it's going to be strategic and complex, but with a much more responsive and fun simulation aspect. Imagine it like affecting an ecosystem, specifically a water body. You can introduce nitrates and phosphates to it, causing algal blooms, causing depleted oxygen levels and so forth which then reduces the biodiversity.... That's what sim city lets you do with cities, and that's all it's ever been. It's never let you go and say "okay i've got too many criminals here so i'm gonna send a bunch of police officers over there right now"(that'd be micromanagement), instead you have to place a police station and let the simulation take care of it

    the whole fucking point is that you don't "control" the simulation per se, you learn the ways in which you can affect it to produce desirable outcomes! that IS the complexity of sim city
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  6. Post #286
    Krinkels's Avatar
    March 2011
    3,680 Posts
    yeah when they talk about not so much micromanagement, they're talking about things like setting prices of shit at stores and all that sorta stuff (they did say that)
    Micromanagement in SimCity manifested itself in three ways:

    - RCI Buildings could be micromanaged in SC3K and SC4. The land value could be controlled through the introduction of Industrial zones, introduction of incinerators or parks, and the presence of education and health facilities. The position and aesthetic of the buildings can then be regulated through the make historical option along with the building style and available zoning. The shape and size of each zone could be further determined in SC4.

    - Budgets could be micromanaged in SC4. Players had the ability to determine the funding of specific government buildings as well as the range in which they'd be effective. Less expensive means of disposing trash and producing water and power could be provided in other cities to balance the budget of another. In previous instalments, departmental budgets could be set. In SC2K, where crime was battled entirely through the presence of police stations, funding could be reduced to introduce crime in one area while the density of police stations was increased in another.

    - Commutes could be micromanaged. Zones could be laid out to have an ideal R:C ratio. Routes could be demolished to force denizens to move through mass transit. Buildings could be demolished to be replaced by one which provides more or better jobs to the nearby citizens. Special routes could be set up for passage between two high-density buildings.

    That's what I love about SimCity. You could zone and build infrastructure and press go and make specific neighbourhoods respond to various stimuli, or you could have a more involved role in your city, devise ways to make things work slightly better than it would if you let chaos reign.
    In the transition between SimCity 3000 and 4, problems which could be solved by throwing buildings at it became much more complex and absolute maximums were no longer a thing.
    Police stations could battle crime completely in 3000, whereas in 4 crime is always there. Having exclusively high-wealth and super-educated people would theoretically be the most effective means of combating crime, but the demand of one's region would be crippled by such exclusive tax policies.
    Education could be maxed out at 123 in SC3K so long as there were an adequate number of libraries, museums, colleges and schools, and as long as several ordinances were passed. In 4, educational institutes have maximum ranges and require placing throughout residential areas. Over eight types of buildings had to be placed in order to max out education, and such buildings had to be constantly monitored to make sure they had enough teachers or books or exhibits. Furthermore, having no stupid people in a region meant that I-M demand would taper, and the regional demand for everything would soon suffer. Neighbour deals, which had previously sold for whatever one needed, were priced according to the cost of the production of such commodities, and would not sell more than whatever the other city had.
    As the simulation grew more complex such as this, the ability to micromanage an entire city was gone. I don't want such a trend to continue to the point where one is simply reacting to the events of the city as a whole. However, I'm not worrying about all this happening because of the agent-based system. It's an odd fit with SimCity, sure, but RollerCoaster Tycoon, Mall Tycoon, and Tropico, to name a few, have such a system and they are all very micromanageable. I'm sure less micromanagement simply means that it's no longer necessary, but still very much possible.
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  7. Post #287
    Dennab
    January 2011
    3,540 Posts
    but a lot of the micromanagement you're talking about there still involves indirect methods eg.
    "Commutes could be micromanaged. Zones could be laid out to have an ideal R:C ratio. Routes could be demolished to force denizens to move through mass transit."

    That's exactly the point I was making :p


    Edited:

    it's changing your layout and set up so that it affects the simulation, that's how sim-city's always worked when it comes to those things, and it sounds like the guy above is completely ignoring that or something by saying "micromanagement and complexity is gone"


    While I see your point about the educational institutes, police stations and all that sort of stuff, i'm sure they'll leave that kind of stuff in in terms of complexity, but they specifically said they wouldn't be doing micromanagement things such as how much stuff costs in a bakery or something along those lines. Doesn't mean they're cutting funding, or the need to actually monitor what's going on at specific buildings etc
    honestly I have high expectations. I like the idea of the city working like a living ecosystem, it feels like the right direction IMO, that's how sim city 4 felt when I used to play it
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  8. Post #288
    Gold Member
    T2L_Goose's Avatar
    July 2006
    11,833 Posts
    Listen, I hope I'm wrong, but when a main gave dev says they're making the game "more accessible", it's something that raises massive red flags for me.
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  9. Post #289
    maqzek's Avatar
    July 2010
    3,963 Posts
    Listen, I hope I'm wrong, but when a main gave dev says they're making the game "more accessible", it's something that raises massive red flags for me.
    Making the game more accessible doesn't mean they will make it any less hardcore, it's just so the entry bar will a bit lower.
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  10. Post #290
    Gold Member
    ShaunOfTheLive's Avatar
    November 2007
    9,905 Posts
    Listen, I hope I'm wrong, but when a main gave dev says they're making the game "more accessible", it's something that raises massive red flags for me.
    Relax. They're just putting in a wheelchair ramp.
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  11. Post #291
    Bold Member
    Dennab
    October 2006
    3,815 Posts
    Relax. They're just putting in a wheelchair ramp.
    BUT I HAVE GIGANTIC LEGS AND I'M NOT A CRIPPLED PUSSY
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  12. Post #292
    Titlepocalypse 2012 participant
    Zedicus Mann's Avatar
    November 2010
    7,940 Posts
    BUT I HAVE GIGANTIC LEGS AND I'M NOT A CRIPPLED PUSSY
    But they're necessary for realistic city simulations.
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  13. Post #293

    March 2012
    3 Posts
    Yeah okay, simulation is pretty cool, but what's the point if you have little control over said simulation. My point is that the direction of the game is toward a more casual audience, an audience who hasn't played SimCity before. As a SimCity veteran, that is bad news. It means that it will probably end up being dull and less involved. I'm not saying it's going to be a shit game, but it's not going to be anything like SimCity 4, and it certainly isn't going to raise the bar.

    You're expecting greatness from Maxis simply because of the name, when the group is a shell of its former self. Will Wright is no longer a part of it, and it seriously hasn't been around since Spore, which was a massive flop. While we are on the subject: Spore. Don't forget about Spore. You want to sit here and be a Maxis fanboy? That's fine, but you need to know that the words "More Accessible" mean bad news for those of us who enjoy complex, rich, and difficult games. If you kept up with Spore's development at all (which I assume you did, since you seem to love Maxis so much), then you know that the game they released was nothing but a watered down version of the game that everyone wanted to play. If you deny this, you're full of shit and are beyond debating with. Spore taught me to never get hyped for a game ever again, at least not one from Maxis. Will Wright himself said that Spore was, by design, "dumbed down" for a bigger audience, so this isn't something you guys can even blame on EA (which I know you will try to do).

    Maxis isn't a shining star of hope for computer games or whatever you're hoping for. Yeah, the old SimCity and Sims games were awesome, I won't deny that, and I played the fuck out of them all. But you can't just assume the game is going to be amazing because it's made by Maxis. You need to know what made the games great in the first place. If you like an easy, simple, and streamlined simulation game, then you'll probably, from the sound of it, love SimCity 5. But as it stands, even with all the neat technology they're throwing at this game, it won't mean shit if the rest of the game is a fucking snore because all the micromanaging and complexity is gone.

    This isn't a complaint about how the game is now, it's their attitude with how they want to make the game.
    Google: "simcity glassbox" -Nuffsaid

    But if that still doesn't satisfy you, then go break into Maxis' dev shed so you can test the unfinished game for yourself.

    The only thing you're good at is trolling; congrats for luring me in. I'm really sick of seeing stubborn people like you who keep insisting what they think, while taking facts as bullshit. You sound like a 50-year old conspiracy crackpot, really. /facepalm



    - first post!
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  14. Post #294
    Bold Member
    Dennab
    October 2006
    3,815 Posts
    I'm expecting greatness because I saw videos of the tech behind the game. It's smarter than any previous game by a long shot. If you can't understand that, you're an idiot.
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  15. Post #295
    Gold Member
    Frozen's Avatar
    April 2005
    1,685 Posts

    High-Def version of the Glassbox engine video
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  16. Post #296

    High-Def version of the Glassbox engine video
    I want to have sex with the staff who created this engine.
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  17. Post #297
    maqzek's Avatar
    July 2010
    3,963 Posts
    I want to have sex with the staff who created this engine.
    Maxis Inc
    5980 Horton St
    Emeryville, CA 94608
    Phone: (925) 933-5630
    Fax: (925) 927-3736
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  18. Post #298
    Bold Member
    Dennab
    October 2006
    3,815 Posts
    Maxis Inc
    5980 Horton St
    Emeryville, CA 94608
    Phone: (925) 933-5630
    Fax: (925) 927-3736
    girl, the back end of your game engine look ridikulus
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  19. Post #299
    maqzek's Avatar
    July 2010
    3,963 Posts
    No one has posted this yet?

    Always-on DRM? Either this is a huge misunderstanding or EA has gone nuts.

    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012...s-change-this/
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  20. Post #300
    sa2fan's Avatar
    February 2010
    6,257 Posts
    No one has posted this yet?

    Always-on DRM? Either this is a huge misunderstanding or EA has gone nuts.

    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012...s-change-this/
    This is bad.


    Real bad.
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  21. Post #301
    Gold Member
    Tuskin's Avatar
    January 2005
    18,338 Posts
    Doesn't bother me.
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  22. Post #302
    maqzek's Avatar
    July 2010
    3,963 Posts
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  23. Post #303
    Gold Member
    darkedone02's Avatar
    February 2006
    2,676 Posts
    yep... the Sim City has been Defiled by EA once again, by adding the corruptive DRM into their games...
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  24. Post #304
    Titlepocalypse 2012 participant
    Zedicus Mann's Avatar
    November 2010
    7,940 Posts
    Dear, EA

    Sincerely, someone with money

    PS:
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  25. Post #305
    Gold Member
    Gray Altoid's Avatar
    March 2008
    1,613 Posts
    "At launch" does not mean "ever."
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  26. Post #306
    Gold Member
    SomeDumbShit's Avatar
    January 2010
    4,197 Posts
    "At launch" does not mean "ever."
    It does when EA publish a game.
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  27. Post #307
    maqzek's Avatar
    July 2010
    3,963 Posts
    "At launch" does not mean "ever."
    Because BF3 has modding. [/s]

    Obviously they are gonna add modding when they released at least one or two DLC/expansions.

    Sure, they will probably add modding, better late than never, but if this wasn't EA, I would understand.
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  28. Post #308
    Always-on DRM? Either this is a huge misunderstanding or EA has gone nuts.

    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012...s-change-this/
    It's OK. The pirates will still be able to play.

    Seriously, you'd think that by now they'd figure out that the always-on DRM scheme does not work. SPORE was cracked less than 72 hours after its release, so was The Sims 3.

    Ubisoft tried the exact same system a few years ago with Silent Hunter 5, and that failed miserably when their servers were DDOS'd by pirates who were out to prove how faulty their DRM was. Yet they continue to use it.

    Why are these people so fucking stupid that they can't get this stuff through their heads?
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  29. Post #309
    Titlepocalypse 2012 participant
    Zedicus Mann's Avatar
    November 2010
    7,940 Posts
    Because MONEY
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  30. Post #310
    Gold Member
    TheTalon's Avatar
    June 2008
    20,315 Posts
    I have Mediacom for my ISP. That means Always On DRM is nothing but a headache. I prefer not paying money for my headaches
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  31. Post #311
    DVH

    May 2010
    1,154 Posts
    Perfect, as my shitty USB dongle barely works and bluescreens whenever there's more than one connection open. Or when it feels liie it when I'm using the internet.

    Even when it wasn't like that, always-on DRM is too much of a hassle imo to not buy+crack it.

    Seriously, someone should start a petition or something.
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  32. Post #312
    Resident Raccoon
    kaze4159's Avatar
    January 2008
    9,154 Posts
    It's funny how they think this is going to work
    All it does is make more legitimate fans pirate the game
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  33. Post #313
    Gold Member
    Géza!'s Avatar
    January 2008
    6,125 Posts
    Guys, what if "mod tools coming later" refers not to the game not having a Plugins folder and not recognizing custom content at launch, but rather things like the BAT editor for Simcity 4. AKA the official developer kit of sorts to create advanced custom content. Cause those things came out after launch for Simcity 4 too.
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  34. Post #314
    VengfulSoldier's Avatar
    March 2011
    1,744 Posts
    Guys, Always On DRM only applies to land areas that you started as multiplayer.
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  35. Post #315
    Gold Member
    Tuskin's Avatar
    January 2005
    18,338 Posts
    still fine. Because they didn't say 'never'
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  36. Post #316
    maqzek's Avatar
    July 2010
    3,963 Posts
    Guys, Always On DRM only applies to land areas that you started as multiplayer.
    If THAT is really so, then I understand. You make an MP city, you need to be connected to influence/be influenced. Makes sense.

    I just really hope so.
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  37. Post #317
    provides mlp plot free of charge
    Oicani Gonzales's Avatar
    February 2011
    18,070 Posts
    I'm still in a rainbow here though, I'll wait for clarification
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  38. Post #318
    maqzek's Avatar
    July 2010
    3,963 Posts
    what the fuck, why is your post 2 km long?

    Edited:

    Some clarification about always-on DRM

    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012...-every-launch/
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  39. Post #319
    Gold Member
    Tuskin's Avatar
    January 2005
    18,338 Posts
    See,nothing to worry about unless you want to play it on the go.
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  40. Post #320
    Gold Member
    ewitwins's Avatar
    December 2009
    14,229 Posts
    If THAT is really so, then I understand. You make an MP city, you need to be connected to influence/be influenced. Makes sense.

    I just really hope so.
    To me that sounds like the dropbox system that was set up for playing SimCity 4 as a multiplayer game. That doesn't seem to bad to me.
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