1. Post #1921
    Gold Member
    Colton Rappe's Avatar
    August 2006
    1,038 Posts
    That would be pretty fucking awesome, but would it be worth it?
    The "neat-ness" would be pretty high on the scale, but the graphical "cost" of it would be debatable as being worth it. It's a nice looking thing, I admit, but it doesn't seem to fit with construct's general 'look'.

    Also this is the first time I have ever seen that effect in source, so I think it would definitely show out abruptly more than be a subtle addition to the map because players are not used to seeing that kind of water refraction in Source..

    Edited:

    Even if the cost of the effect is extremely minimal, as I said, it doesn't seem to fit the 'look' of Garry's Mod, and I dont recall seeing that effect anywhere else except in TF2, and Gm_construct definately does not have a TF2 Inspired art-direction.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 8 United States Show Events Disagree Disagree x 3Agree Agree x 1 (list)

  2. Post #1922
    powback's Avatar
    January 2012
    280 Posts
    The "neat-ness" would be pretty high on the scale, but the graphical "cost" of it would be debatable as being worth it. It's a nice looking thing, I admit, but it doesn't seem to fit with construct's general 'look'.

    Also this is the first time I have ever seen that effect in source, so I think it would definitely show out abruptly more than be a subtle addition to the map because players are not used to seeing that kind of water refraction in Source..

    Edited:

    Even if the cost of the effect is extremely minimal, as I said, it doesn't seem to fit the 'look' of Garry's Mod, and I dont recall seeing that effect anywhere else except in TF2, and Gm_construct definately does not have a TF2 Inspired art-direction.
    This is true, but then again, that's how normal water acts. It's a nice addition, and if nothing else; Can't we just Photoshop it in, and see how it looks? I think that if it's possible to make it look better, lets try it. Wasn't "doesn't fit" an argument against the current skybox?

    If this PC can run photoshop, I'll give it a try. So we at least get some kind of insight on the effect.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 Norway Show Events Disagree Disagree x 2Agree Agree x 2 (list)

  3. Post #1923
    Gold Member

    July 2006
    1,960 Posts
    It's really hard to get to look right. I'm not sure how it would work on a map like gm_construct.

  4. Post #1924
    Gold Member
    hexpunK's Avatar
    August 2008
    15,656 Posts
    The water caustics idea would work better if the lake bed was flat, but it isn't. And the wall on the "dock" like bit could possibly work for caustics, but they wouldn't be very strong thanks to it being a pretty unreflective texture.

    Edited:

    Actually, after watching some videos water caustics on the lakebed would work, but they wouldn't need to be too strong, otherwise it would look a bit odd considering the lake is a static piece of water (if it was a constantly moving river or ocean or something stronger caustics would look good).
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United Kingdom Show Events Agree Agree x 1 (list)

  5. Post #1925
    G-Enigma's Avatar
    June 2011
    326 Posts
    The new workshop version looks nice, with the bluer lighting and huge lake and all, but props and npcs don't have shadows
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Agree Agree x 1 (list)

  6. Post #1926
    I GOT BRAIN DAMAGE BECAUSE I'M AN IDIOT
    luavirusfree's Avatar
    August 2006
    580 Posts
    You're seriously going to leave that lake square like that? If you're going for a realistic looking lake area, you have failed in epic proportions.

    By the way, where's the latest download?? The workshop link doesn't work for me, most likely because I don't have the 13 beta.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Dumb Dumb x 18Funny Funny x 1 (list)

  7. Post #1927
    Gold Member
    Colton Rappe's Avatar
    August 2006
    1,038 Posts
    The new workshop version looks nice, with the bluer lighting and huge lake and all, but props and npcs don't have shadows
    We will look into that.


    You're seriously going to leave that lake square like that? If you're going for a realistic looking lake area, you have failed in epic proportions.
    Please do not accuse us of doing anything in the map unless we officially announced it in the changelog or one of our own posts. Regardless of what the community says about the shape of the lake, the design decision on the shape of the lake is still up in the air. And we need confirmation from garry and a larger portion of the community before we decide changing its shape is worthwhile. If you would like, LuaVirusFree, go ahead and ms-paint up a lake design with depth represented by a grayscale gradient.

    The Project Log can be found here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...zWoyTUKgc/edit


    By the way, where's the latest download?? The workshop link doesn't work for me, most likely because I don't have the 13 beta.
    There is no manual download for the most recent version of the map, we will push one out in a while from now.

    Here you go: http://www.mediafire.com/?4nrfw39xcll9xsb
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 8 United States Show Events Friendly Friendly x 4 (list)

  8. Post #1928
    Gold Member

    February 2012
    46 Posts
    I'm back. Sorry I've been busy with college and my exams are now over :D

    Glad to see that It's getting along and that the AI nodes being work on.

    When I get time I'll download it and have a play around on it and to see what's been done.

    (Y)
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows Vista United Kingdom Show Events Informative Informative x 1 (list)

  9. Post #1929
    Gold Member
    Colton Rappe's Avatar
    August 2006
    1,038 Posts
    SGTNAPALM and myself have gone through many iterations of different lighting ideas for the mirror room, and goshdamn not much of it looks very good so far. I will keep trying for a while longer.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 8 United States Show Events Informative Informative x 1 (list)

  10. Post #1930
    Gold Member
    BlackAwps's Avatar
    July 2011
    771 Posts
    SGTNAPALM and myself have gone through many iterations of different lighting ideas for the mirror room, and goshdamn not much of it looks very good so far. I will keep trying for a while longer.
    If you want I can upload the VMF for the screenshot I posted when I get on my desktop.

  11. Post #1931
    Gold Member
    Colton Rappe's Avatar
    August 2006
    1,038 Posts
    If you want I can upload the VMF for the screenshot I posted when I get on my desktop.
    Any help is appreciated.

  12. Post #1932
    Gold Member
    Colton Rappe's Avatar
    August 2006
    1,038 Posts
    Just posting to say that I feel like I accomplished something by learning how to manually modify a .rad file to assign specific texture-based lights manual color and intensity overrides during the map compile process, and learned that the scale of the lightmap affects how many light emitters show up on a texture light.

    Edited:

    This is some wierd stuff that I am testing with, just thought I would throw out some videos for everyone to see, just so you know what I've been wasting some time playing with. Playing with lightmaps, custom .RAD files, light-emitting texture brushes, and other fun things.



    My personal Favorite:


    Edited:

    Correction: This one is my favorite. The simplicity and closeness to the ceiling keep the room feeling large while not being too strange.

    I also increased the intensity of the texture-light in the RAD file from 50 to 100, which more evenly lights up the room now. Let me know what you think!


    Edited:

    On a small sidenote, I think I will try reporting the mirror+demo black-box bug at some point, it is really annoying.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 8 United States Show Events Artistic Artistic x 6Disagree Disagree x 1Dumb Dumb x 1 (list)

  13. Post #1933
    Gold Member
    DarthTealc's Avatar
    October 2007
    506 Posts
    The mirror room could have a (non-breakable) 'glass' roof. It would solve the lighting problem, and would also make the mirror room feel more connected to the rest of the map.
    Here is a representation of my idea -

    More screens: http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/55...012E5FDA798E7/ http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/...E6E9CFB68E8A7/ http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/...5689F385F2EF3/ http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/...716E392D541C7/
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Australia Show Events Disagree Disagree x 12Artistic Artistic x 4Agree Agree x 3 (list)

  14. Post #1934
    Gold Member
    hexpunK's Avatar
    August 2008
    15,656 Posts
    The texture lights could work quite nicely, especially if they were recessed into the wall or ceiling or something. The bottom video lighting is probably the best, but it seems a bit overpowering at 100.
    Though that skylight idea is pretty cool, I dunno if it would be a great idea for the mirror though, it increases the complexity of the scene. Which may or may not affect performance.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply United Kingdom Show Events Agree Agree x 5 (list)

  15. Post #1935
    Gold Member
    HiddenMyst's Avatar
    June 2006
    6,634 Posts
    Yeah with the glass ceiling, you'll be rendering the mirror from outside in construct and rendering outside while in the mirror room. Great idea, but probably not too good for performance.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 Australia Show Events Agree Agree x 3 (list)

  16. Post #1936
    Gold Member
    highvoltage's Avatar
    May 2009
    1,825 Posts
    I just messed around with a glass ceiling but like mentioned before its not the best for performance and it didn't render the skybox.

  17. Post #1937
    Gold Member
    BlackAwps's Avatar
    July 2011
    771 Posts
    Any help is appreciated.
    Sorry it took so long. http://puu.sh/Ie1V

  18. Post #1938
    Gold Member
    hexpunK's Avatar
    August 2008
    15,656 Posts
    I don't know what the Youtube preview image of the last video was doing, but it's bright damn yellow. After actually being able to watch it, 100 doesn't seem too bad for the brightness. It does give you uniform light, but without ugly ass models plastered everywhere to justify it.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United Kingdom Show Events Agree Agree x 3 (list)

  19. Post #1939
    kp3
    Gold Member
    kp3's Avatar
    January 2008
    2,987 Posts
    Looks odd with that yellow lighting and those room wide lamps in my opinion. I'd rather have the pictures you posted a few days ago.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 Sweden Show Events Disagree Disagree x 3Dumb Dumb x 1 (list)

  20. Post #1940
    dev02ify's Avatar
    March 2012
    56 Posts
    Looks odd with that yellow lighting and those room wide lamps in my opinion. I'd rather have the pictures you posted a few days ago.
    Yellow lighting? Did you even bother to watch the last video? Youtube messed up the thumbnail on the last one.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Agree Agree x 2 (list)

  21. Post #1941
    infinitywrai's Avatar
    December 2007
    539 Posts
    Will people without Episode 2 be able to see the skybox textures (the tree texture is ep2), or will it be packaged into the map? I have Episode 2, but some people don't want to buy Episode 2 if they don't want to play it.

  22. Post #1942
    Gold Member
    SGTNAPALM's Avatar
    October 2007
    22,442 Posts
    Will people without Episode 2 be able to see the skybox textures (the tree texture is ep2), or will it be packaged into the map? I have Episode 2, but some people don't want to buy Episode 2 if they don't want to play it.
    It's up in the air at this moment.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Agree Agree x 2 (list)

  23. Post #1943
    Gold Member
    HiddenMyst's Avatar
    June 2006
    6,634 Posts
    Someone should render/make some custom skybox cards
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 Australia Show Events Agree Agree x 5 (list)

  24. Post #1944
    Gold Member
    SGTNAPALM's Avatar
    October 2007
    22,442 Posts
    Someone should render/make some custom skybox cards
    What if I played around in Terragen for a while to come up with something?
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Agree Agree x 5 (list)

  25. Post #1945
    Gold Member
    mil0001's Avatar
    January 2010
    485 Posts
    Sounds like a plan.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 Australia Show Events Agree Agree x 1 (list)

  26. Post #1946
    Gold Member
    SGTNAPALM's Avatar
    October 2007
    22,442 Posts
    That might not be the best idea, actually.

    Edited:

    Legal mumbo-jumbo.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Funny Funny x 3 (list)

  27. Post #1947
    Gold Member
    HiddenMyst's Avatar
    June 2006
    6,634 Posts
    So make something in a 3d renderer or from free-to-use images.
    Mountain cards aren't very difficult and a little time in photoshop makes them fit into maps quite easily.

    Edited:

    And possibly use distance alpha if you can figure it out.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 Australia Show Events Artistic Artistic x 2Agree Agree x 1 (list)

  28. Post #1948
    Gold Member
    Colton Rappe's Avatar
    August 2006
    1,038 Posts
    So make something in a 3d renderer or from free-to-use images.
    Mountain cards aren't very difficult and a little time in photoshop makes them fit into maps quite easily.

    Edited:

    And possibly use distance alpha if you can figure it out.
    https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/$distancealpha

    Interesting Stuff.

  29. Post #1949
    Gold Member
    HiddenMyst's Avatar
    June 2006
    6,634 Posts
    Very interesting and would mean you don't get aliasing on the skybox.

  30. Post #1950
    Gold Member
    Colton Rappe's Avatar
    August 2006
    1,038 Posts
    Hopefully we might get someone who is artistic to take pictures and convert them into skycards. I look forward to the possibility; and at the same time, we need a word from garry: we need him to check with valve if we are allowed to use the EP2 skycards.

  31. Post #1951
    Gold Member
    Colton Rappe's Avatar
    August 2006
    1,038 Posts
    Well, because of this:
    http://garry.tv/post/27483335001/gmod-13-release-date

    We seem to now have a target date of getting the map tidied up in early September, and pushing it out to garry a couple days before the release date. We do need to get a load of things handled in the map, high priority things like the texture job of the perimeter wall trim. If someone wants to dedicate some good time to aligning and making all the perimeter wall's "red-trim" equally distant on all the walls, that would be great. I would give you a modified VMF to use to modify the walls and I would merge that with the map.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Agree Agree x 2Optimistic Optimistic x 2Informative Informative x 1 (list)

  32. Post #1952
    Gold Member
    Colton Rappe's Avatar
    August 2006
    1,038 Posts
    This is the last of the immediate changes we have in store. We need to get these handled at least before August or very early August.



    Edited:

    If nobody has objections, I will implement a recessed lighting system based on the previously shown videos. I will post a screenshot sometime tomorrow when I make a proof-of-concept.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Informative Informative x 3Funny Funny x 1Winner Winner x 1 (list)

  33. Post #1953
    Grocel's Avatar
    October 2008
    1,249 Posts
    I will try to fix the displacements. And I will try to take a look at the red trimming. You should do the lights in the mirror room.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 Germany Show Events Friendly Friendly x 2 (list)

  34. Post #1954
    Gold Member
    Colton Rappe's Avatar
    August 2006
    1,038 Posts
    Uploading screenshots of the changelog from now on, to keep information flow streamlined.

    Give a hand to Grocel for all of today's changes, and fixing the trimming (I will have a look at it in a bit).
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 8 United States Show Events Friendly Friendly x 2Funny Funny x 1 (list)

  35. Post #1955
    Ask about my EBOLA fetish
    GameDev's Avatar
    February 2010
    12,432 Posts
    I'm pretty sure valve wouldn't care if you shipped with a skycard. Gmod already comes with all the HL2 content anyway.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Agree Agree x 4Optimistic Optimistic x 2Funny Funny x 1 (list)

  36. Post #1956
    Gold Member
    Colton Rappe's Avatar
    August 2006
    1,038 Posts
    Checked the displacement work and red-trimming work done by grocel, really well done!

    I dont know how he managed the trimming in such a short time, but kudos.


    I am going to work on the mini-mirror room prototype and finish up a lighting design for the room and incorporate it into the main branch map once it looks good. After that, you can probably expect a workshop update.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 8 United States Show Events Funny Funny x 3Informative Informative x 1 (list)

  37. Post #1957
    Gold Member
    Panda X's Avatar
    August 2006
    9,824 Posts
    Probably the wrong time to bring this up but I was curious if anyone else agreed.

    Does anyone else think the building across the lake is a bit cramped with the stair case and ring floors? I couldn't imagine doing anything in there comfortably.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 8 United States Show Events Funny Funny x 1 (list)

  38. Post #1958
    Gold Member
    Colton Rappe's Avatar
    August 2006
    1,038 Posts
    Probably the wrong time to bring this up but I was curious if anyone else agreed.

    Does anyone else think the building across the lake is a bit cramped with the stair case and ring floors? I couldn't imagine doing anything in there comfortably.
    Better to bring it up now than a couple days before launch.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 8 United States Show Events Funny Funny x 1 (list)

  39. Post #1959
    Gold Member
    hexpunK's Avatar
    August 2008
    15,656 Posts
    I dont know how he managed the trimming in such a short time, but kudos.
    It really isn't that hard to align textures perfectly once you have one face sorted. Especially with the right click function of the Material tool in Hammer. You can align a curved path in under a minute with that thing. If I could find a good article about it I'd post it, but I'm struggling. Now I really wonder where I learnt that from
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United Kingdom Show Events Informative Informative x 1 (list)

  40. Post #1960
    Gold Member
    Colton Rappe's Avatar
    August 2006
    1,038 Posts
    In case anyone wants to play with the light beams to come up with something better, here is a copy of the isolated test mirror room for you to use for compiling and such. We will not merge the changes made in this testmap with the official gm_construct_13 map until after the community has been clear about liking the design or not.


    So here you go: Be sure to keep the .RAD file in the map compile directory and don't modify it unless you feel a need to. (You need the RAD file for the custom override for the intensity and color of the beam light.)
    http://www.mediafire.com/?bhyew8evbq7qb53

    This is what the testroom VMF looks like right now as a compiled HDR product:
    Are the shafts too wide? Is the angle in the shaft unnecessary? Is it too bright? Are the shafts too close to eachother? Should the shafts be on the walls instead of the ceiling?

    EDIT:
    So you know, I have to head off to work in about half an hour, so the best of luck to those who want to meddle around with the mirror room VMF and a great thanks to anyone who gives constructive comments regarding "my" variation of the mirror room.



    It really isn't that hard to align textures perfectly once you have one face sorted. Especially with the right click function of the Material tool in Hammer. You can align a curved path in under a minute with that thing. If I could find a good article about it I'd post it, but I'm struggling. Now I really wonder where I learnt that from
    I want to clarify that I am not talking about aligning textures to other textures. I was referring to aligning the angles of the trim to the cuts of the brushes. Angles are a much harder thing to just guess, and it usually results in me sitting down rotating it 1 degree at a time and moving it around the X and Y axis until It aligns up with the top or bottom of ab angled brush's edge. The edge may be at a 35 degree angle one one brush, then I have to align the red-trim to the angle of another brush that is at 0 degrees, then align that to a brush at a -50 degree incline.

    Again, I don't know how Grocel managed the red-trimming in such a short period of time, because it would have involved manually angling every texture to the brushes, cutting, and vertex-moving each wall until the trim-width was consistent.

    If you find this tutorial, please post a link, so I can clarify that it is what I am discussing.


    EDIT:
    I will be home to work on this more when I get off work in several hours from now.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 8 United States Show Events Artistic Artistic x 4Useful Useful x 1 (list)