1. Post #1681
    Gold Member
    highvoltage's Avatar
    May 2009
    1,735 Posts
    Its useful?
    Useful for what? Like I said, the lake is massive and provides just as much space as the sub room. And what could you possibly use the tunnels for?
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  2. Post #1682
    newe6000's Avatar
    November 2011
    33 Posts
    Useful for what? Like I said, the lake is massive and provides just as much space as the sub room. And what could you possibly use the tunnels for?
    While I agree with you I was really liking the idea of mineshaft tunnels.

    Also are you removing that pointless building room off to the side in the tunnels?

    EDIT: One bad thing is that I don't know if it was just me but construct 10 was very small and didn't really fit that much when you had about 10 people trying to build epic contraptions. But I do also agree as it is right now it is way too cluttered. Gah so conflicted.

  3. Post #1683
    Gold Member
    highvoltage's Avatar
    May 2009
    1,735 Posts
    While I agree with you I was really liking the Idea of mineshaft tunnels.

    Also are you removing that pointless building room off to the side in the tunnels?
    Yeah, there isn't a need for is and I added it just to make the tunnel to be not as repetitive.

    I'm also thinking of taking out the interior of the lake side skyscraper too.

  4. Post #1684
    Gold Member
    Butthurter's Avatar
    August 2007
    9,754 Posts
    i really dislike the skybox cards, they just border on unnecessary and doesnt even look good
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  5. Post #1685
    Gold Member
    highvoltage's Avatar
    May 2009
    1,735 Posts
    So your saying you prefer the old floating building skybox?
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  6. Post #1686
    Gold Member
    Butthurter's Avatar
    August 2007
    9,754 Posts
    no but id rather not see giant blurry low res pixelated cards surrounding me
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  7. Post #1687
    Gold Member
    highvoltage's Avatar
    May 2009
    1,735 Posts
    What do you want to see in the skybox? Would you like it to be open fields or pretty much what it is now but just without the skybox cards?
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  8. Post #1688
    Gold Member
    Butthurter's Avatar
    August 2007
    9,754 Posts
    What do you want to see in the skybox? Would you like it to be open fields or pretty much what it is now but just without the skybox cards?
    well, the latter
    i like the idea that there are grounds on the skybox
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  9. Post #1689
    Gold Member
    SGTNAPALM's Avatar
    October 2007
    21,613 Posts
    Those cards wouldn't be that bad as long as it was kept really far away, to sort of fill up the rest of the space.
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  10. Post #1690
    Gold Member
    highvoltage's Avatar
    May 2009
    1,735 Posts
    What about keeping the ones on the very outside edge?

  11. Post #1691
    Gold Member
    Butthurter's Avatar
    August 2007
    9,754 Posts
    What about keeping the ones on the very outside edge?
    thats better

  12. Post #1692
    Gold Member
    Colton Rappe's Avatar
    August 2006
    1,038 Posts
    Just to clarify: In the most recent iteration of the map, the ones I was working on with the new skybox earlier today; I already removed the underground build room, and the tunnels. The only "tunnel" left is the staircase from the surface to the darkroom, and even that might be removed.

    The Submarine room is still intact, until further decision on it's existence is confirmed by highvoltage.

    I took out a lot of brute work, so HighVoltage can focus on what he wants to do rather than spending his time needlessly.

    It is sad that I hardly get 1:1 time with HighVoltage live; we mostly communicate though PMs on FacePunch. Hopefully, as I am sure everyone is anxious as hell about, we will get garry to give his final words on the map at some point near its developmental finale and get the darn thing thrown into gmod as the stock map. That would make everyone's day. (Well, mostly everyone's)

    Also, for anyone who needs to make maps for gmod13 / gmod, and doesnt want to keep testing in Ep2, or doesnt want to bother configuring Hammer, you can append this batch file onto the end of your "Expert Mode" compiler launch settings. (Keep in mind, you need to de-check the launch game part of the compiler, as the batch file handles that.)

    We use this for gm_construct_13 to make things go faster.

    Code:
    @echo off
    COLOR A
    TITLE Garry's Mod 13 Map Script
    
    ::Script created by Colton Rappe.
    
    ::Modular Copy and Check BSP.
    CD %sourcesdk%\..
    
    ::Check that compiler successfully placed the BSP in the EP2 maps folder.
    :RETRY
    IF EXIST "half-life 2 episode two\ep2\maps\gm_construct_13.bsp" GOTO :COPY
    echo "Map not found in ep2.  Press any key to retry...
    PAUSE
    GOTO :RETRY
    
    ::Copy the map from the ep2 map folder to the Gmod 13 Beta Maps Folder.
    :COPY
    COPY /Y "half-life 2 episode two\ep2\maps\gm_construct_13.bsp" "garry's mod beta\garrysmodbeta\maps\gm_construct_13.bsp"
    GOTO :VERIFY
    
    
    ::Checking that map successfully copied to Gmod13 Maps Folder.  If not, re-copy it from ep2.
    :VERIFY
    IF EXIST "garry's mod beta\garrysmodbeta\maps\gm_construct_13.bsp" GOTO :LAUNCH_GMOD
    echo Map not found in Gmod 13 Beta Maps Folder.  Press any key to attempt to re-copy from EP2...
    PAUSE
    GOTO :COPY
    
    :LAUNCH_GMOD
    @echo Launching Garry's Mod 13 Beta...
    CD %sourcesdk%\..\..\..
    steam.exe -applaunch 4010 -dev -console +map gm_construct_13
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  13. Post #1693
    TheNewApple's Avatar
    May 2012
    112 Posts
    I like the tunnels and the sub room, keep them, they'll be helpful for some players, it's not interfering for those who don't want them.
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  14. Post #1694
    Ask about my EBOLA fetish
    GameDev's Avatar
    February 2010
    12,350 Posts
    I like the tunnels and the sub room, keep them, they'll be helpful for some players, it's not interfering for those who don't want them.
    The general layout and aesthetics of the tunnel are unappealing; tt's just a long repeated hallway which in the end is just boring to walk down. The bunker room isn't large enough to make anything feasible, and the sub room metal platforms are just bland and in the way. I should also mention that it's only designed for submarines, and nothing else. No love for boats.

    Besides, source isn't really capable of making realistic submarines in the first place.
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  15. Post #1695
    Gold Member
    Colton Rappe's Avatar
    August 2006
    1,038 Posts
    Besides, source isn't really capable of making realistic submarines in the first place.
    Three words. Gravity Hull Designer. But in all seriousness, the room's existence is trivial in some ways without that.
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  16. Post #1696
    Gold Member
    kimr120's Avatar
    March 2010
    5,147 Posts
    no but id rather not see giant blurry low res pixelated cards surrounding me
    Welcome to the source engine.
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  17. Post #1697
    Ask about my EBOLA fetish
    GameDev's Avatar
    February 2010
    12,350 Posts
    Three words. Gravity Hull Designator. But in all seriousness, the room's existence is trivial in some ways without that.
    I don't see it very often on servers. Nonetheless, Highvoltage wants it out.

  18. Post #1698
    Gold Member
    SGTNAPALM's Avatar
    October 2007
    21,613 Posts
    I'm beginning to think that maybe the tunnels and the submarine room are a bit overkill, too.

    Edited:

    If you do insist on keeping it, why not make it bigger and make a building in the skybox for it?
    I made a sloppy mock-up in hammer to show what I mean.

    When sitting in the map proper, you can look out and in the skybox there would be a building corresponding to the submarine room, shown here in orange.


    Then you can have more room for it to be useful.


    Because as it stands, it's way too tiny to do anything neat with.
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  19. Post #1699
    Gold Member
    hexpunK's Avatar
    August 2008
    15,118 Posts
    Welcome to the source engine.
    Not an inherent trait of the engine. More like "welcome to awful texture work". Skycards are meant to be placed pretty far out, they aren't meant to be high detail textures. Just removing the ones close to the map, and pushing others further out would improve their appearance a ton. Using relatively low LOD models for nearer ones would look better but just take up space and memory. Something Construct isn't meant to do.
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  20. Post #1700
    TheTrueAndy's Avatar
    September 2009
    446 Posts
    When does the version on workshop gets updated with that awesome-looking 3D skybox in which mountains and buildings suround the map?
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  21. Post #1701
    Gold Member
    Colton Rappe's Avatar
    August 2006
    1,038 Posts
    When does the version on workshop gets updated with that awesome-looking 3D skybox in which mountains and buildings suround the map?
    Part 1:
    Well, as it stands, people have had many mixed opinions on the tunnel systems. At one point when a vote was cast, the majority wanted the tunnels removed, and now, more recently, the majority wants them to stay.

    This brings us to Part 2:

    -We don't have a version of the map with the new skybox and old tunnel system, only the new tunnel system and the tunnel system removed. The Old vote on whether or not to keep the tunnel system was probably misleading to many people, because we have two differently styled tunnel systems, one made of stone and dirt with wooden support beams, and one made of concrete and metal I-beams supporting the tunnels. (as seen in the workshop version of the map)

    Part 3:
    We dont know exactly which system people prefer more at the current time, but the last time we did a vote, people seemed in favor of the Wooden beamed stone/dirt tunnel system. If you want a particular tunnel system style, please comment and give a reason why you vote for one or the other, assuming you are in favor of keeping the tunnel systems intact.

    Other than that, I can compile and release a non-workshop version of the map, with the new skybox in all 3 variations: Old tunnels, New Tunnels, No Tunnels. And see which one everyone overall prefers, but I will need the written consent from HighVoltage before I continue work on any of it/converting the old tunnels version of the map to have the new skybox.
    (The Workshop version currently has the old tunnels, for information sake).

    I dont use Pakrat like how HighVoltage does, so it would require some manual work copying the skybox texture cards to the materials folder of gmod 13 beta, but if you can't do that, you probably shouldn't even have the beta in the first place.

    I await word from HighVoltage via PM in the thread, or him posting in the thread.

    Edit:
    I can try compiling the map with LDR and HDR settings with the old tunnel system with the new skybox, and see if HighVoltage would pakrat it for me, then he could upload it to workshop.

    I wont be home for several hours until after I get home from work. Kind of wish we had more people on-board with the project, but HighVoltage has to handle that.

    [release]
    [h2]ADHD Version:[/h2]

    -People need to make up their minds on whether they want the tunnels or if they dont want the tunnels, and they need to choose either the current concrete/metal tunnels (as seen in workshop), or the dirt/wooden support beam version tunnels.

    -HighVoltage may take out the tunnels all-together and remove the submarine room from the map, and just polish up what is already there in the map. (as I have seen him already make progress on on the 26th of June using a copy of the (New Skybox, No Tunnels) (No SubRoom) branch.
    [/release]
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  22. Post #1702
    powback's Avatar
    January 2012
    279 Posts
    You're the man, Colton! Keep it up!
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  23. Post #1703
    Gold Member
    Colton Rappe's Avatar
    August 2006
    1,038 Posts
    As it is quite evident in the vote poll cast here: http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?...1#post36471764

    You can see that it was a 26:10 ratio. 16 more people preferred the tunnels to not having the tunnels.

    Now comes the second poll:

    Do you want the Concrete / Metal Tunnels currently seen in workshop? Vote:

    or

    Do you want the Dirt/Stone/Rock Tunnels with Wooden Support beams concept art'd here:
    ? Vote:


    At this point, it is obvious enough that the majority of contributors to the thread want the tunnels to stay, but the ultimate choices lie with garry and HighVoltage. If we keep the tunnel system (chosen by the vote here), with the new skybox, that is how it is going to stay unless garry says there is a problem.


    Keep in mind that HighVoltage may opt to remove the tunnels completely without the consent of the community, that is his choice, it is his map; if garry likes it without the tunnels, you may just have to live without them.

    [h2]I also added new screenshots to the OP / Main Post / First Post in the Thread[/h2]
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  24. Post #1704
    Google first. ( Wiki )
    Robotboy655's Avatar
    May 2008
    6,813 Posts
    Wow, these new screenshots are awesome. But is there a way to remove fog in skybox? It looks kinda weird.
    Oh and by the way, that second tunnel looks epic, reminds me of episode 2 for some reason.

  25. Post #1705
    endorphinsam's Avatar
    January 2010
    3,541 Posts
    Wow, these new screenshots are awesome. But is there a way to remove fog in skybox? It looks kinda weird.
    Oh and by the way, that second tunnel looks epic, reminds me of episode 2 for some reason.
    For some reason it looks like textures from Episode 2, but I don't think they can do that as some people that buy the game might not have Episode 2 and stuff..

  26. Post #1706
    Gold Member
    highvoltage's Avatar
    May 2009
    1,735 Posts
    Okay guys, I had to work today so no work has been done today but I'm free tomorrow morning so I'll have another go at the map then.

    So here is my plan, I'm going to update the workshop file with the version of the map with the new skybox and without the tunnels and the sub room to see what everyones reaction to it is. But first Colton with have to do a full compile for me because the compiler keeps crashing on me whenever it gets to the HDR.

    After it get uploaded I'm then going to completely redo the AI nodes around the map, possibly including the new helicopter paths. I'm hopefully going to make it so birds just don't drop from the sky and just fly to a new location when startled and make it so headcrabs and antloins burrow into the grass when they are left alone. I'll also add fastzombie climb nodes in reasonable locations along with jump nodes.

    Is there any other AI entities I could add that would useful for NPCs?

    Edited:

    I would also like to make sure people realize that the picture Colton posted just above me isn't actually in the map, but that is just concept art that was posted by somebody and that I haven't been able to recreate it myself successfully.
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  27. Post #1707
    Gold Member
    Colton Rappe's Avatar
    August 2006
    1,038 Posts
    Okay guys, I had to work today so no work has been done today but I'm free tomorrow morning so I'll have another go at the map then.

    So here is my plan, I'm going to update the workshop file with the version of the map with the new skybox and without the tunnels and the sub room to see what everyones reaction to it is. But first Colton with have to do a full compile for me because the compiler keeps crashing on me whenever it gets to the HDR.

    After it get uploaded I'm then going to completely redo the AI nodes around the map, possibly including the new helicopter paths. I'm hopefully going to make it so birds just don't drop from the sky and just fly to a new location when startled and make it so headcrabs and antloins burrow into the grass when they are left alone. I'll also add fastzombie climb nodes in reasonable locations along with jump nodes.

    Is there any other AI entities I could add that would useful for NPCs?
    I got a PM a little while ago from HighVoltage regarding the map as was already mostly mentioned above. I am kind of torn, like a lot of people, about removing the tunnels, but it may be necessary.
    It is with OVERWHELMING knowledge that most people want the tunnels and they want the newer concept variated version of the tunnels, and yet HighVoltage wants to remove the tunnels, so please bear with us during this test we are performing.

    I am going to compile the map that has no subroom and no tunnels, under HDR and LDR, and will have HV pakrat the necessary objects into the map and he will upload it to workshop for everyone else to test.

    Edited:
    I would also like to make sure people realize that the picture Colton posted just above me isn't actually in the map, but that is just concept art that was posted by somebody and that I haven't been able to recreate it myself successfully.
    I just want people to realize that we have spent a good lot of time ourselves and involving community members with trying to make the concept a reality, but it just keeps borking up in ways that are irritating and time consuming, and the time being invested is making the payoff become trivial, so we are going to put the "new" tunnel systems on hold unless we get an overwhelming demand for it after the public workshop push-update.

  28. Post #1708
    Gold Member
    highvoltage's Avatar
    May 2009
    1,735 Posts
    The problem with the tunnels that that they don't have any use and that they are really repetitive. I agree that the concept art tunnels look amazing would remove the repetitiveness but it doesn't fit with the simplicity that the original construct has and that's what the aim of this map is.

    Its the same with the submarine room. What extra functionality did it add? A place to build in? There is plenty of water and land to build on and you don't have to be enclosed in a room and have a underwater tunnel to make submarines. They lake is larger then what the subroom was and there is an entire flat building surface right next to it to build on.

    I'll say this again. Why exactly does everyone want the tunnels and subroom? The only person to give a reason the last time I asked only said that its useful and underlined the word. And when I asked what it was useful for I never got a response. One other person right after said that they liked the idea but why do you like they idea? I can agree that the concept are tunnels look sweet but once again do we really need them?


    So, I ask you for the last time. Are the tunnels actually necessary to the average player and why are they so necessary when there is more then enough space to do all you want to do in them elsewhere?
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  29. Post #1709
    Gold Member
    Colton Rappe's Avatar
    August 2006
    1,038 Posts
    For some reason it looks like textures from Episode 2, but I don't think they can do that as some people that buy the game might not have Episode 2 and stuff..
    Garry might be able to pull some strings in that regard, we can hope. We await his word on that, preferrably after the workshop update we plan on releasing soon, and that of which I am compiling right at this moment.

    Edited:

    The problem with the tunnels that that they don't have any use and that they are really repetitive. I agree that the concept art tunnels look amazing would remove the repetitiveness but it doesn't fit with the simplicity that the original construct has and that's what the aim of this map is.

    Its the same with the submarine room. What extra functionality did it add? A place to build in? There is plenty of water and land to build on and you don't have to be enclosed in a room and have a underwater tunnel to make submarines. They lake is larger then what the subroom was and there is an entire flat building surface right next to it to build on.

    I'll say this again. Why exactly does everyone want the tunnels and subroom? The only person to give a reason the last time I asked only said that its useful and underlined the word. And when I asked what it was useful for I never got a response. One other person right after said that they liked the idea but why do you like they idea? I can agree that the concept are tunnels look sweet but once again do we really need them?


    So, I ask you for the last time. Are the tunnels actually necessary to the average player and why are they so necessary when there is more then enough space to do all you want to do in them elsewhere?
    I see what you mean now, and I agree completely.

    HighVoltage is currently uploading the map to workshop.
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  30. Post #1710
    Gold Member
    supersoldier58's Avatar
    August 2009
    2,323 Posts
    The problem with the tunnels that that they don't have any use and that they are really repetitive. I agree that the concept art tunnels look amazing would remove the repetitiveness but it doesn't fit with the simplicity that the original construct has and that's what the aim of this map is.

    Its the same with the submarine room. What extra functionality did it add? A place to build in? There is plenty of water and land to build on and you don't have to be enclosed in a room and have a underwater tunnel to make submarines. They lake is larger then what the subroom was and there is an entire flat building surface right next to it to build on.

    I'll say this again. Why exactly does everyone want the tunnels and subroom? The only person to give a reason the last time I asked only said that its useful and underlined the word. And when I asked what it was useful for I never got a response. One other person right after said that they liked the idea but why do you like they idea? I can agree that the concept are tunnels look sweet but once again do we really need them?


    So, I ask you for the last time. Are the tunnels actually necessary to the average player and why are they so necessary when there is more then enough space to do all you want to do in them elsewhere?
    I am not encouraging you to keep the tunnels in anyway, but as I said before they added expansion without making things bigger. I found building a npc war was significantly more enjoyable with tunnels. And it added atmosphere, I know construct is supposed to be sandbox-y but it added another place to go. I also find gamemode's could take advantage, if they didn't want their players time consumed on getting new maps. But on topic of the submarine room I think it should be gone, I didn't find it added much to the game and actually took away from the simplicity of construct. I felt very out of place.
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  31. Post #1711
    Gold Member
    Colton Rappe's Avatar
    August 2006
    1,038 Posts
    I have uploaded a non-workshop version to Mediafire and have it tracked with bit.ly, HighVoltage will post information regarding the workshop update and will also post my link to the file on mediafire for people to look at in the meantime while we wait for garry to fix the valve update that broke the game.

    http://garrysmod.com/post/2605860508...-mod-is-broken

  32. Post #1712
    Gold Member
    highvoltage's Avatar
    May 2009
    1,735 Posts
    Because I'm a tool like that I have decided to update the workshop file while Gmod is down so nobody can use it. Muhahahah!

    But here is a MediaFire link courtesy of Colton anyways: http://bit.ly/MzcwiZ

    The workshop file is untested in Gmod for obvious reasons but it should work in theory. The only problem that there could be is missing textures in the skybox, but I'm sure I included them properly.
    This version has the tunnels and subroom removed and has the pretty new skybox included.

    Edited:

    I am not encouraging you to keep the tunnels in anyway, but as I said before they added expansion without making things bigger. I found building a npc war was significantly more enjoyable with tunnels. And it added atmosphere, I know construct is supposed to be sandbox-y but it added another place to go. I also find gamemode's could take advantage, if they didn't want their players time consumed on getting new maps. But on topic of the submarine room I think it should be gone, I didn't find it added much to the game and actually took away from the simplicity of construct. I felt very out of place.
    Then the issue is where will the tunnels lead to when the subroom is gone?
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  33. Post #1713
    Gold Member
    Colton Rappe's Avatar
    August 2006
    1,038 Posts
    Because I'm a tool like that I have decided to update the workshop file while Gmod is down so nobody can use it. Muhahahah!
    I rated you a wrench because you said that. On another note: Cant wait for gmod to be up-and-running again.
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  34. Post #1714
    garry's Avatar
    September 2001
    12,318 Posts
    When I suggested underground tunnels this is exactly what I envisioned..

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  35. Post #1715
    Gold Member
    Colton Rappe's Avatar
    August 2006
    1,038 Posts
    When I suggested underground tunnels this is exactly what I envisioned..

    We will see what we can do to make this tunnel system go from community concept-art to a reality, garry.

    It just brings up the question that HighVoltage brought up, since the Submarine Room has been removed because of it's trivial existance (among other reasons), where would the tunnels go? A giant underground garry-cave?

    Drawings, design concepts, something; we need something to go off-of, without that, there is no point to having tunnels in the first place; They need to go somewhere and we need some community-driven influence on where/what that somewhere is..
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  36. Post #1716
    garry's Avatar
    September 2001
    12,318 Posts
    Seems like the tunnel is causing way too much brain ache - maybe we should get rid of it completely and focus on the rest?
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  37. Post #1717
    Gold Member
    Colton Rappe's Avatar
    August 2006
    1,038 Posts
    Seems like the tunnel is causing way too much brain ache - maybe we should get rid of it completely and focus on the rest?
    Any suggestions to the map, in relation to design, garry?


    Also, fun talking with Gran PC, seen below:


    Gran PC posted:
    4:27 AM - Gran PC: the new sky cards look amazing
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  38. Post #1718
    Gold Member
    The Inspector's Avatar
    January 2011
    124 Posts
    Seems like the tunnel is causing way too much brain ache - maybe we should get rid of it completely and focus on the rest?
    The tunnels are a really good interesting idea in concept, but with overall theme and implementation and just doesn't go with the map unfortunately.
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  39. Post #1719
    PENISCORP DIRECTOR
    Gran PC's Avatar
    August 2007
    3,072 Posts
    Why did you JPG-rape my image?
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  40. Post #1720
    Gold Member
    SGTNAPALM's Avatar
    October 2007
    21,613 Posts
    Any suggestions to the map, in relation to design, garry?


    Also, fun talking with Gran PC, seen below:
    Is it just me, or does how dark it looks seem weird to anybody else?
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