1. Post #601
    Gold Member
    Tokagero's Avatar
    February 2007
    4,802 Posts
    I had a game as Sand King earlier with a guy who, I guess, had never played Dota before. He asked what an easy hero to learn was, I told him Lich. First thing he said after that was, "So, this is Plague Rider, then?"

    We lost, but it wasn't because of him. I blame our "solo-mid carry" Windrunner and farm-all-game-then-bitch Lone Druid.

    And 24/7 Meteor/Sunstrike Invoker who refused to switch spells at all.

    Edited:

    Entire team clicks N'aix the moment we can pick, I joke that we should all play him and then click Drow. One of them picks Silencer, another picks Spirit Breaker. A few seconds later, pink picks AM. Last guy waits until there's 1 second left to pick, then randoms Spectre.

    I literally just went "Fuck it." And picked Lycan.

    We actually might have won, which surprised me quite a bit. Like, until the last fight where my entire team went to stop them taking Rosh while I was pushing top, and ended up getting themselves killed, it was going really well.
    5 carry team, outside of organised teamplay, can win. It has a lot of weak points, but if you manage to get core on everyone, it's pretty much race agains time, since enemy team has to stop you before you reach insane amounts of gold.

    Early ganks, focusing on 1 target, CC, those can disable 5 carry team well, but only if done early. As I said, if every carry gets his core and they all manage to farm at least decently, enemy team has time until 40 or so minutes.

    Then again, that's why we see so many gankers/nukers/ability based champions played in Tournaments. They reach their "core" potential much quicker, allowing them to decimate opponents aiming for late game if done well.

    Still, Pub enviroment = anything goes.
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  2. Post #602

    January 2009
    9 Posts
    Got my dota key a couple of weeks ago, someone else here that didn't get 2 extra keys?

    btw would be nice to play with you guys, http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197988373893/ if you want to add me
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  3. Post #603
    Gabe Newell's Avatar
    March 2011
    1,556 Posts
    I don't know where you saw titopei speaking about a specific game.

    And also, if you're too lazy to carry because you didn't need to, stop trying.
    If that game was so easy, and you were not able to carry, it means you're bad at it, not that "it doesn't matter I didn't need to anyway".
    Tit had just played a game with us. I didn't need to carry because I felt that our team had already outplayed the other team by miles and I could just focus on having fun.
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  4. Post #604
    Gold Member
    Captain Chalky's Avatar
    September 2010
    7,406 Posts
    I love Dazzle. 90% of the time I play him we seem to stomp. Early game mana issues, but once I get a Soul Ring I just spam heal and rarely, if ever die. There are even times I'm solo side with him and manage to do well. He's even useful as a pusher.
    I felt the same about Lich and Death Prophet until I started losing all the time.
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  5. Post #605
    bigbundie's Avatar
    June 2011
    1,212 Posts
    You do realise that new players are likely not to play any hero well if they don't have good amount of action-rts/moba experience ?

    Even Skeleton King, Dota favours different gold/time/mechanics managment than the other games.

    If you see someone do badly as a new player, instead of telling them off, you could just tell them some tips about the game/hero and suggest watching some live games /replays instead, or maybe even playing custom games/ vs AI.

    Hell, you can play a match any day any time, if you truly find someone fresh and polite about that, you could just train them in a couple of matches. I dare to say it would be nice change of pace from regular Pubs, trying to look after a person and slowly teaching them.
    The annoying thing is when they never listen to you
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  6. Post #606
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    October 2010
    2,532 Posts
    the choice to not play
    How do you get better if you don't play?(besides reading guides, you can't apply it without playing)
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  7. Post #607
    Reimu's Avatar
    July 2010
    4,575 Posts
    It's really hard to teach new players because DOTA is so complex.
    That's one of the reasons why you just don't want to q with people who are new. It's easier to teach an experienced player if they're doing something wrong, while with newer players your advice might just go straight over their head because they don't know what you mean.

    It's not that they aren't listening, they just literally don't know what to do. If you tell an awful sniper that he should buy lothars, for instance, he's not going to know what that is and he might not know how to even buy it piecemeal. And then he might not know how to use it properly, and he might have built/farmed Sniper rather poorly so lothras wouldn't help much.

    Meanwhile if you tell a more experienced newbie to buy lothars, he's probably farmed & built Sniper up pretty well and he understands what to do. It's like there's a threshold for being new, and there's a cut off point wher eyou just can't help some players.
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  8. Post #608
    OxIGeZ's Avatar
    July 2010
    459 Posts
    Why would you tell people to build lothars.
    In the end of the day they will think that it's a good item.
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  9. Post #609
    Gold Member
    Maruhai's Avatar
    September 2011
    9,456 Posts
    Why would you tell people to build lothars.
    In the end of the day they will think that it's a good item.
    It's a good item.
    But only with retarded pubs.

    Edited:

    Also I just tried out Enchantress and, holy fuck she's an unkillable beast.
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  10. Post #610
    Gold Member
    Number-41's Avatar
    August 2005
    4,123 Posts
    So eh what's the chance of getting a key? I signed up ages ago but still didn't get anything...
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  11. Post #611
    Gold Member
    Tokagero's Avatar
    February 2007
    4,802 Posts
    Eh, if new player isn't stuck up asshole and is willing to listen, teaching him anything isn't hard at all.

    What ares of Dota you find so complex that example and words can't explain?

    And on the Lothar, it is an item. Even Dagon has it's uses, thats why it is still in the game.

    Lothar gives damage, invisibility and backstab. Now, it's rather expensive, but unless enemy invests in wards/dust they won't be able to get you. If you are smart at using it, you can use it to initiate.
    Yes, a Blink Dagger is better to initiate, but it : can be disabled by damage, doesn't provide stats.

    Just because something isn't used all the time in a competetive scene, or some high end players describe it as bad, it doesn't mean it has to be so. Dota is very situational game.

    A comptetive scene has it's rules and metas, Lothar could fit there if we somehow got Invis-meta. Dust costs, has area of effct, can be purged and duration is lesser than cooldown. Gem is investment that can even empower the enemy. Don't be one sided here, I dare to say Icefrog is smart enough not to balance game around pubstomping,thus Lothar either has it's good uses or is to be remade.

    Stars of the Dota scene tend to be one-sided as well. Just by listening to podcasts or watching their gameplays, they usually go "this sucks' "this is op", etc. If they were to argument their statements, answers would be easy to guess.

    What you think about Lothar ? - It sucks. - Why ? - Dust/wards.

    Now, this is true.
    But. There is always but. Lothar could be used to sneak around enemy wards without Smoke, i.e. constantly without having to buy item a group would use better than single unit.

    Theory : Your team has a jungler that besides his usual stuff picks up Lothar, to cross river undetected and farm enemy jungle as well (if they don't have a jungler). If enemy team didn't cover their jungle with wards as well, he is on freefarm. He might find enemies, but hopefully he has an escape mechanism.

    This is just from the top of my head, probably lacking and not perfect example, but what I am trying to say is that just because "people say so" doesn't mean it is so.

    Edited:

    Also I just tried out Enchantress and, holy fuck she's an unkillable beast.
    Play against semi-decent Bounty Hunter.

    She is paper-mache in terms of health.
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  12. Post #612
    Gold Member
    pvt.meh's Avatar
    December 2005
    3,442 Posts
    Teaching new players should be done in bot games, put it on easy or whatever and be patient. If they jump into matchmaking they'll just get scarred forever.
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  13. Post #613
    Reimu's Avatar
    July 2010
    4,575 Posts
    Why would you tell people to build lothars.
    In the end of the day they will think that it's a good item.
    Sniper w/ lothars is a worthy foe as long as he's reasonably fed.
    As Tokagero said, it's contextual. If you play pub, not every team buys wards/dust/gem or uses such very efficiently. And certainly, you can trick an enemy team who has warded or even gank around the wards.
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  14. Post #614
    Gold Member
    Gorm's Avatar
    September 2009
    2,494 Posts
    Teaching new players should be done in bot games, put it on easy or whatever and be patient. If they jump into matchmaking they'll just get scarred forever.
    I disagree.
    I think the only way to learn dota is to play matchmaking with other teammates then mindless bots.
    It will help you in the long run.
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  15. Post #615
    Gold Member
    pvt.meh's Avatar
    December 2005
    3,442 Posts
    First game matchmaking will just break their spirit and they won't want to play any more. :/
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  16. Post #616
    Is that a rocket in your pocket?
    Dr.Scrake's Avatar
    March 2010
    8,393 Posts
    FUCK EVERYTHING

    Just got my first lose ever with skeleton king thanks to a fucking 0 11 batrider stealing my fucking aegis

    oh my fucking god
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  17. Post #617
    Gold Member
    Tokagero's Avatar
    February 2007
    4,802 Posts
    First game matchmaking will just break their spirit and they won't want to play any more. :/
    A couple of things :

    1. Many people treat AI as inferior to real players. While it is true, Valve has done great job on some of the AI and despite that, some people willing to learn might still care not if they are not playing against flesh and bone enemy. Think of it as Morale, why try if enemy is 1s and 0s ?

    2. Bots have niches that are exploitable, player shouldn't learn to rely on those, but learn to spot them. Spotting the same niche over and over isn't effective.

    3. A loss is as good as victory, except you get different music and voice lines. Experience is what counts, as well as fun if we are past basic learning. Even game, a pubstomp, getting pubstomp, any game might give you a reason to say "The more you know".

    4. How you want people to have fun exploiting one's lack of knowledge if new players won't play mm ? It's not nice, but it is a guilty pleasure sometimes. I am not talking about hardcore pubstomp, just use something basic they don't know 2 or 3 times and then explain it to them. I explained in one match to enemy Clinkz that if he harasses me with Searing Arrows by casting them on me instead of right click and toggle, our creeps won't target him. Hurted, but he learned.
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  18. Post #618
    The Pain Train's a-comin! Woo woo!
    OluapPlayer's Avatar
    August 2010
    951 Posts
    FUCK EVERYTHING

    Just got my first lose ever with skeleton king thanks to a fucking 0 11 batrider stealing my fucking aegis

    oh my fucking god
    ALRIGHT! BACON!
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  19. Post #619
    Reimu's Avatar
    July 2010
    4,575 Posts
    As a new player myself, bot games only help teach you how to play heroes. They're good for practicing skill builds & item builds, but they don't teach you the sort of atmosphere you're going to be under w/ that hero.

    Bot games also don't teach you theoretical strategies, such as last hits. If I'm practicing Skeleton King, for instance, a bot practice match can teach me when I should use my nuke, but it can't teach me when I should autoattack an enemy creep. Unless I know what last hits are, I might just autoattack the whole lane and think that's a good idea (which a lot of really, really new players end up thinking).

    That's why you need a more experienced player to teach you those strategies, and you also need to walk into matchmaking yourself and see how the game plays out with humans.
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  20. Post #620

    February 2010
    1,570 Posts
    Why do all bat rider players i come across suck.

    It's like, the moment my team mate picks bat rider, our loss becomes forthcoming.
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  21. Post #621
    Gold Member
    Maruhai's Avatar
    September 2011
    9,456 Posts
    Play against semi-decent Bounty Hunter.

    She is paper-mache in terms of health.
    Funny how I just won against a semi carry Bounty Hunter as Enchantress. vv
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  22. Post #622
    Gold Member
    Tokagero's Avatar
    February 2007
    4,802 Posts
    Funny how I just won against a semi carry Bounty Hunter as Enchantress. vv
    Match ID, now.

    Every time I random that thing and enemy has BH, it's either a loss or at least my deathfest.

    Crit, Shuriken,-Armor, Backstab damage. In those games I usually purchase bracers or a lot of Vitality Orbs.
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  23. Post #623
    Gold Member
    Maruhai's Avatar
    September 2011
    9,456 Posts
    Match ID, now.

    Every time I random that thing and enemy has BH, it's either a loss or at least my deathfest.

    Crit, Shuriken,-Armor, Backstab damage. In those games I usually purchase bracers or a lot of Vitality Orbs.
    1002800 (oh wow we're above 1 000 000)
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  24. Post #624
    RagerTrader's Avatar
    September 2011
    1,708 Posts
    You know what's fun?

    When the enemy team has Drow, Huskar, or any other Auto-attack dependent heroes.

    And I build Halberd as Sven.
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  25. Post #625
    Gold Member
    Tokagero's Avatar
    February 2007
    4,802 Posts
    1002800 (oh wow we're above 1 000 000)
    That Gondar was pretty nice, but he missed a lot of Ults (as in he didn't cast them for bonus gold before killing guy), wasn't playing with team at all and used a freakin salve in freakin pool.

    Still, he killed you a couple of times well. Under tower, etc.
    You can't say BH doesn't hurt Enchantress a lot (at least compared to many other heroes).
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  26. Post #626
    Gold Member
    Maruhai's Avatar
    September 2011
    9,456 Posts
    That Gondar was pretty nice, but he missed a lot of Ults (as in he didn't cast them for bonus gold before killing guy), wasn't playing with team at all and used a freakin salve in freakin pool.

    Still, he killed you a couple of times well. Under tower, etc.
    You can't say BH doesn't hurt Enchantress a lot (at least compared to many other heroes).
    He does, but we still won because of that broken Impetus.
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  27. Post #627
    Atlascore's Avatar
    June 2011
    7,967 Posts
    FUCK EVERYTHING

    Just got my first lose ever with skeleton king thanks to a fucking 0 11 batrider stealing my fucking aegis

    oh my fucking god
    Why would you get aegis.. on skeleton king?

    I mean yeah reviving twice is pretty cool but by time you revive the second time your team will most likely be dead and you'll die instantly.
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  28. Post #628
    Is that a rocket in your pocket?
    Dr.Scrake's Avatar
    March 2010
    8,393 Posts
    Why would you get aegis.. on skeleton king?

    I mean yeah reviving twice is pretty cool but by time you revive the second time your team will most likely be dead and you'll die instantly.
    yeah better give it to a 0/11 bat rider he sure will make good use of it right?
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  29. Post #629
    Gold Member
    Tokagero's Avatar
    February 2007
    4,802 Posts
    Why would you get aegis.. on skeleton king?

    I mean yeah reviving twice is pretty cool but by time you revive the second time your team will most likely be dead and you'll die instantly.
    Lvl 3 Ult + Aegis + Refresher Orb = Ballin outta control
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  30. Post #630
    Gold Member
    Badunkadunk's Avatar
    December 2008
    3,518 Posts
    Why do all bat rider players i come across suck.

    It's like, the moment my team mate picks bat rider, our loss becomes forthcoming.
    Maybe that's why people shower me with compliments whenever I play him, I know what to do with the guy. Everyone just lassos the first person they see, fly in a random direction and NEVER use tar. They also flamebreak people near death AWAY from us and they end up escaping or they cast the fire trail and just fly into trees and dick around because they don't know how to use it. The first time I played him I did that stuff but it took like a second to realize how what I was doing was fucking up my team.
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  31. Post #631
    Reimu's Avatar
    July 2010
    4,575 Posts
    Why would you get aegis.. on skeleton king?

    I mean yeah reviving twice is pretty cool but by time you revive the second time your team will most likely be dead and you'll die instantly.
    Like Tokagero said, it's incredibly useful with your Level 3 Ult. By the time you're focusing on Rosh, SK should be pretty tanky which also makes him a pretty devastating hero too when he comes back from the dead.
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  32. Post #632
    Gold Member
    Santz's Avatar
    June 2009
    6,857 Posts
    Why do bad players never ask for advice ._.

    Lost 2 matches in a row with witch doctor, both for the same reason. We are dominating but we have 1 team mate that sucks horribly, he leaves and then everyone starts leaving...
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  33. Post #633
    RagerTrader's Avatar
    September 2011
    1,708 Posts
    Why do bad players never ask for advice ._.

    Lost 2 matches in a row with witch doctor, both for the same reason. We are dominating but we have 1 team mate that sucks horribly, he leaves and then everyone starts leaving...
    Becuas eif someone ever says they are new, they are shunned and abused.
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  34. Post #634
    Newbie Programmer
    UnMute's Avatar
    November 2009
    1,064 Posts
    Had a satisfying game for once, with good ol' Enigma. Those holes are satisfying to land, every single time.
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  35. Post #635
    Atlascore's Avatar
    June 2011
    7,967 Posts
    yeah better give it to a 0/11 bat rider he sure will make good use of it right?
    That's not what I was saying, at all.
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  36. Post #636
    Gold Member
    SXBIG's Avatar
    August 2010
    1,826 Posts
    Had a satisfying game for once, with good ol' Enigma. Those holes are satisfying to land, every single time.
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  37. Post #637
    Atlascore's Avatar
    June 2011
    7,967 Posts
    Like Tokagero said, it's incredibly useful with your Level 3 Ult. By the time you're focusing on Rosh, SK should be pretty tanky which also makes him a pretty devastating hero too when he comes back from the dead.
    Now I understand, thanks for not being an asshole about it.
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  38. Post #638
    Is that a rocket in your pocket?
    Dr.Scrake's Avatar
    March 2010
    8,393 Posts
    That's not what I was saying, at all.
    So what


    Getting aegis on skeleton king is awesome, and all I have to say to prove so is:


    divine rapier


    (and I'm not trying to sound like an asshole!)
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  39. Post #639
    Hobbax's Avatar
    October 2011
    542 Posts
    Looking for another update.. will it goes to maintenance?
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  40. Post #640
    The Pain Train's a-comin! Woo woo!
    OluapPlayer's Avatar
    August 2010
    951 Posts
    There won't be an update this week.
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