1. Post #41
    Who is having to pay families? Reducing oil exports is bad for the US economy and US consumers, but it seems only to have helped oil companies become more profitable. Mission Accomplished. War is the ultimate government program. The costs are socialized, while the profits are private.

    If I'm wrong about the reasons for our wars, I challenge you to come up with a motivation that makes more sense. Do you honestly think the Bush Administration was actually concerned about "weapons of mass destruction?"
    Do you have any idea how the military or oil companies work at all.

  2. Post #42
    q0q
    q0q's Avatar
    February 2012
    699 Posts
    Well, personally I do not think it was the government. I am pretty sure a government like ours isn't that idiotic to crash a plane into a their own building. With thousands of civilians inside, on the plane, and on the ground. The government had nothing to gain if they did cause 9/11.
    minus the fuel to power a whole generation of people to support illegal international policing.

  3. Post #43
    Not that bad of a seed
    asteroidrules's Avatar
    January 2011
    11,410 Posts
    minus the fuel to power a whole generation of people to support illegal international policing.
    Except 9/11 only gave us a 'green light' to invade Afghanistan, which is devoid of any oil. It does have large amounts of rare minerals but US companies don't have contracts to mine any of it(last time I checked, anyway).
    Also what's illegal about being involved in the outside world?

  4. Post #44

    April 2012
    30 Posts
    Do you have any idea how the military or oil companies work at all.
    This is not a very productive question. I, of course, at least think I know what I'm talking about. I have several such ideas, and I believe them all to be correct.

    If you expect me to express all of those ideas, you're either high or willfully delusional. It would take me hours, if not days, and nobody would bother reading it.

    Edited:

    Also what's illegal about being involved in the outside world?
    The US Constitution asserts that international treaties to which the US is a signatory are the supreme law of the land, and the US is a signatory of the UN Charter, which most international legal scholars would argue was violated by the invasion of Iraq. Further, some argue that waging war without a declaration is automatically illegal per US Constitution. Both seem pretty valid, but whether such a war is technically legal seems far less important than the fact that it was completely unwarranted.

  5. Post #45
    joes33431's Avatar
    January 2009
    1,589 Posts
    This video sums up my sentiments.


    Skip to 4:28 to get to the part on 9/11.

    I feel like oil is too often used as a reason for US invasion, but I think it has more to do with the profits that military companies make from war.

  6. Post #46
    This video sums up my sentiments.


    Skip to 4:28 to get to the part on 9/11.

    I feel like oil is too often used as a reason for US invasion, but I think it has more to do with the profits that military companies make from war.
    Russia Today is not a reliable source.

  7. Post #47
    President of the Westboro Baptist Church Fan Club
    Dennab
    February 2012
    2,084 Posts
    This is not a very productive question. I, of course, at least think I know what I'm talking about. I have several such ideas, and I believe them all to be correct.

    If you expect me to express all of those ideas, you're either high or willfully delusional. It would take me hours, if not days, and nobody would bother reading it.
    I'd be very glad to read just such a thing. Without an explanation, your argument means nothing. You might just be making shit up.

    The US Constitution asserts that international treaties to which the US is a signatory are the supreme law of the land, and the US is a signatory of the UN Charter, which most international legal scholars would argue was violated by the invasion of Iraq. Further, some argue that waging war without a declaration is automatically illegal per US Constitution. Both seem pretty valid, but whether such a war is technically legal seems far less important than the fact that it was completely unwarranted.
    UN Resolution 1441. Look it up.

    Regardless, why did an entirely new conspiracy about WMDs need to be constructed? Why stage 9/11?

  8. Post #48
    I make sexist and racist jokes all the time yet,i still support the feminist movement and the rights of blacks.
    znk666's Avatar
    July 2010
    5,535 Posts
    Well, personally I do not think it was the government. I am pretty sure a government like ours isn't that idiotic to crash a plane into a their own building. With thousands of civilians inside, on the plane, and on the ground. The government had nothing to gain if they did cause 9/11.
    Well,they could have gotten oil from invading Afghanistan.

    But no i doubt it was staged by the government.

  9. Post #49
    Not that bad of a seed
    asteroidrules's Avatar
    January 2011
    11,410 Posts
    This is absolutely vital for people to know.
    The vast majority of the people who signed as part of this nutcase group are either faking it, have arse-wiping-value degrees, or are in a completely unrelated field, like landscape architect. For those not in the know, that's a fucking GARDENER.
    Exactly, most of those "architects and engineers" don't know what they're talking about, and also let me just state something here: my father is an engineer, a real engineer, he is someone who knows what he is talking about, someone who studied long and hard at a prestigious university to learn what he is talking about, and someone who makes a living (and a pretty good one at that) proving he knows what he's talking about, and he saw 9/11 happen live on the news and he believes the official story is accurate.

  10. Post #50
    I ROLL THE NICKELS
    CodeMonkey3's Avatar
    October 2008
    18,070 Posts
    I probably made a mistake from coming in here but oh well. You guys may remember me from the Pictures That Shook the World thread where I posted about a dozen graphic images of that day of Jumpers and so on. I've read a lot of articles, seen a lot of pictures and video. I've spent countless hours understanding why it collapsed and what not, purely out of curiosity.

    Nothing that day is suspicious, nothing at all. It was just a huge tragedy and I think most conspiracy theorists are what they are because they don't entirely understand what happened themselves or what they're really looking at in those pictures and videos. All the people I know who were actually there that day don't think it was a conspiracy either, and the sad part of all that is they're harassed by Conspiracy Theorists all the time that go as far as calling them a home and calling them liars and fakes and claiming they were never there and what not.

    I mean, some are absolutely fucking nuts like "Let's Roll" but that's a different story.

    It was a Terrorist attack, that's all it was.

  11. Post #51
    Gordy H.'s Avatar
    April 2010
    1,206 Posts
    Well,they could have gotten oil from invading Afghanistan.

    But no i doubt it was staged by the government.
    Except, for the jillionth time, there's no oil in Afghanistan. I think you have Afghanistan confused with Iraq.

  12. Post #52
    I once worked at a sperm bank, the food was terrible
    The Baconator's Avatar
    April 2011
    9,226 Posts
    Russia Today is not a reliable source.
    His point about the military industrial is right though

  13. Post #53
    joes33431's Avatar
    January 2009
    1,589 Posts
    Russia Today is not a reliable source.
    Except it isn't the news source talking, it's the interviewee.

  14. Post #54
    "We should allow child labor overseas ...the sweatshop is what is saving the 9 year old worker"
    Pepin's Avatar
    April 2007
    6,864 Posts
    Certainly not an inside job, but it is impossible to escape from the claim that the US brought on the attack. Osama Bin Laden made his motivations quite clear, and the motivations are based in fact.

    http://www.representativepress.org/Motivesfor911.html

    It must follow that the need for an inside job to occur is irrational. To put it this way, when some group called kills half a million children of your group, all just to make a dictator suffer, of course there are going to be people in your group who are going to retaliate.

    To put it this way, if the US is going around crotch punching a bunch of countries, eventually there is going to be a country that crotch punches the US back. To all the cells who aren't aware of all the crotch punching the US has been doing, getting crotch punched by someone who is getting even is perceived as someone getting crotch punched by a douche who goes around crotch punching countries for no reason. To the slightly schizophrenic cells, it seems probable that the US crotch punched itself so it could justify crotch punching the country it has been crotch punching for the last decade.

  15. Post #55
    President of the Westboro Baptist Church Fan Club
    Dennab
    February 2012
    2,084 Posts
    Certainly not an inside job, but it is impossible to escape from the claim that the US brought on the attack. Osama Bin Laden made his motivations quite clear, and the motivations are based in fact.

    http://www.representativepress.org/Motivesfor911.html

    It must follow that the need for an inside job to occur is irrational. To put it this way, when some group called kills half a million children of your group, all just to make a dictator suffer, of course there are going to be people in your group who are going to retaliate.

    To put it this way, if the US is going around crotch punching a bunch of countries, eventually there is going to be a country that crotch punches the US back. To all the cells who aren't aware of all the crotch punching the US has been doing, getting crotch punched by someone who is getting even is perceived as someone getting crotch punched by a douche who goes around crotch punching countries for no reason. To the slightly schizophrenic cells, it seems probable that the US crotch punched itself so it could justify crotch punching the country it has been crotch punching for the last decade.
    Your post is illegible. I don't have a clue what you're talking about.

  16. Post #56
    fox '09's Avatar
    July 2010
    1,321 Posts
    Even if you think it was done by the goverment, or by some evil entity, it's irrelevant. What happened was awful, but 3000 people killed by a rather simplistic plan just isn't enough to warrant invading Afghanistan, who pledged to help us after the attacks and was very skiddish about Al Qaeda in its last years.. At best bush was extremely incompetent, and at worst he let it happen. I think it's somewhere in the middle, but again it doesn't matter. The real story is what happened afterwards.

  17. Post #57
    President of the Westboro Baptist Church Fan Club
    Dennab
    February 2012
    2,084 Posts
    Even if you think it was done by the goverment, or by some evil entity, it's irrelevant. What happened was awful, but 3000 people killed by a rather simplistic plan just isn't enough to warrant invading Afghanistan, who pledged to help us after the attacks and was very skiddish about Al Qaeda in its last years.. At best bush was extremely incompetent, and at worst he let it happen. I think it's somewhere in the middle, but again it doesn't matter. The real story is what happened afterwards.
    What do you mean he "let it happen"?

  18. Post #58
    Gold Member
    Klammyxxl's Avatar
    April 2009
    3,546 Posts
    Well, personally I do not think it was the government. I am pretty sure a government like ours isn't that idiotic to crash a plane into a their own building. With thousands of civilians inside, on the plane, and on the ground. The government had nothing to gain if they did cause 9/11.
    Well, if I let my crazy side explain for a second, it would make perfect sense for a government to cause tensions between radicals in order to restrict our freedoms as Americans, and gain even more power for themselves. A majority of these controversial bills that keep popping up are often stating that their main purpose is to combat terrorism. And while I highly doubt that the United States could have possibly conspired with Al-qaeda to devise this evil plan, I wouldn't put it past my government to reap the benefits of fear.

  19. Post #59
    President of the Westboro Baptist Church Fan Club
    Dennab
    February 2012
    2,084 Posts
    Well, if I let my crazy side explain for a second, it would make perfect sense for a government to cause tensions between radicals in order to restrict our freedoms as Americans, and gain even more power for themselves. A majority of these controversial bills that keep popping up are often stating that their main purpose is to combat terrorism. And while I highly doubt that the United States could have possibly conspired with Al-qaeda to devise this evil plan, I wouldn't put it past my government to reap the benefits of fear.
    That's not true and the government isn't some singular organization with the intent of destroying your freedoms and forming a dictatorship, but even so, why stage a massive and useless conspiracy to clear the way? Hiring a crazy person from the U.S. to shoot up the WTC would have been more than sufficient.

  20. Post #60
    fox '09's Avatar
    July 2010
    1,321 Posts
    What do you mean he "let it happen"?
    I speak of the memos he received, what richard clark said on july 5th 2001, etc. I'm not the conspiratorial type, but I don't think it's entirely impossible. They could of done numerous things to stop it, but they didn't even really try.

    This isn't important to me though, his actions after 9/11 show that he welcomed it and used it to do rather despicable things. I'd like to hear an opposing view on what happened before 9/11, if that's where you are going.

  21. Post #61
    Gold Member
    Klammyxxl's Avatar
    April 2009
    3,546 Posts
    That's not true and the government isn't some singular organization with the intent of destroying your freedoms and forming a dictatorship, but even so, why stage a massive and useless conspiracy to clear the way? Hiring a crazy person from the U.S. to shoot up the WTC would have been more than sufficient.
    *Never said it was, just said it could be possible.

  22. Post #62
    Not that bad of a seed
    asteroidrules's Avatar
    January 2011
    11,410 Posts
    I speak of the memos he received, what richard clark said on july 5th 2001, etc. I'm not the conspiratorial type, but I don't think it's entirely impossible. They could of done numerous things to stop it, but they didn't even really try.

    This isn't important to me though, his actions after 9/11 show that he welcomed it and used it to do rather despicable things. I'd like to hear an opposing view on what happened before 9/11, if that's where you are going.
    they pulled it off for the same reason some people think it was a conspiracy: we didn't believe they were seriously capable of something like 9/11. We were overconfident and that did help let this happen.

  23. Post #63
    Frodo Baggins's Avatar
    April 2012
    98 Posts
    they pulled it off for the same reason some people think it was a conspiracy: we didn't believe they were seriously capable of something like 9/11. We were overconfident and that did help let this happen.
    Might've been mentioned before but I personally don't think that if it was the government who plotted the attacks that all the members involved in the plot would've been able to keep it a secret. How could anyone live with 3000+ lives on their concience and continue to behave in a socially acceptable manner? Something would've slipped by now.

  24. Post #64
    fox '09's Avatar
    July 2010
    1,321 Posts
    Might've been mentioned before but I personally don't think that if it was the government who plotted the attacks that all the members involved in the plot would've been able to keep it a secret. How could anyone live with 3000+ lives on their concience and continue to behave in a socially acceptable manner? Something would've slipped by now.
    If the goverment can't keep Watergate secret, then I doubt anything close to 9/11 can be pulled off in secret. I'm not an anti-government nut but the goverment seems to always fail to keep a scandal secret. With the expansion of the internet there are no secrets left. What we're entering is a very strange age where people can get their information from many sources, and with this conspiracy theories are bound to rise. People don't look for sources that are neutral, but rather that match their viewpoint. I'm interested to see how this plays out in the election and going forward.

  25. Post #65
    Gold Member
    Matriax's Avatar
    November 2006
    726 Posts
    Might've been mentioned before but I personally don't think that if it was the government who plotted the attacks that all the members involved in the plot would've been able to keep it a secret. How could anyone live with 3000+ lives on their concience and continue to behave in a socially acceptable manner? Something would've slipped by now.
    Apart from the fact that "9/11 is a conspiracy" is to me, obviously bollocks. This is something that bugs me a bit. If people believe that 9/11 was orchestrated by the government, they must have very little faith in humanity. Do they seriously believe that all the people who would need to be complicit in such a scheme wouldn't mind about the 3000+ people killed so that some "defence contractors/oil companies" would make some cash?

    Do people really think President Bush capable of giving such an order?

  26. Post #66
    President of the Westboro Baptist Church Fan Club
    Dennab
    February 2012
    2,084 Posts
    they pulled it off for the same reason some people think it was a conspiracy: we didn't believe they were seriously capable of something like 9/11. We were overconfident and that did help let this happen.
    Yup, same thing with Pearl Harbor. The radar signals of incoming Japs were ignored because they didn't even think they would ever attack.

  27. Post #67
    Yup, same thing with Pearl Harbor. The radar signals of incoming Japs were ignored because they didn't even think they would ever attack.
    And probably because radar tech was iffy and we had just as much chance of it being a flock of birds as it being the Japanese.

  28. Post #68
    I ROLL THE NICKELS
    CodeMonkey3's Avatar
    October 2008
    18,070 Posts
    Apart from the fact that "9/11 is a conspiracy" is to me, obviously bollocks. This is something that bugs me a bit. If people believe that 9/11 was orchestrated by the government, they must have very little faith in humanity. Do they seriously believe that all the people who would need to be complicit in such a scheme wouldn't mind about the 3000+ people killed so that some "defence contractors/oil companies" would make some cash?

    Do people really think President Bush capable of giving such an order?
    This was always part of my reason. I was at work the other night and someone said something so I was like "That's almost as crazy as chem trails and 9/11"

    And the three guys I was with all are going on and on and on about how it was a conspiracy, about how it shouldn't have fallen like that because they've heard from friends or this guy on the internet and what not.

    And part of what I didn't understand was. If they REALLY DO BELIEVE the GOVERNMENT was behind an attack that caused such terror on the streets of NY and killed 3,000 American citizens. Why don't they do something?

    I don't think the Government did it. I know so many people who were there, I've seen so many pictures, videos, read so many articles and I'm convinced it wasn't a conspiracy.

    But let's say if it was obvious to me it was a conspiracy, and I came to that solid conclusion myself, and everyone I know felt it was a conspiracy too. Than why don't any of us do anything about it? People love to talk but apparently they wouldn't act on 2,000 deaths by the US government. Which is disconcerting.

  29. Post #69
    This title has been removed due to a copyright claim from Viacom Inc.
    neos300's Avatar
    July 2008
    3,489 Posts
    Yup, same thing with Pearl Harbor. The radar signals of incoming Japs were ignored because they didn't even think they would ever attack.
    No. The Japanese fleet that was approaching Pearl Harbor was under radio silence.

    Yes, there were rumors of something happening on that day, but the government expected at worst for there to be a strike on Guam or one of the islands near Australia.

  30. Post #70
    hey
    Ownederd's Avatar
    August 2006
    6,087 Posts
    The Al-Q did it with CIA training, and that's the most important part. It was the chickens coming home to roost. Whether or not we allowed it to happen is up for debate, but we certainly exploited it to the best of our abilities. The only conspiracy is that of capital

  31. Post #71
    Not that bad of a seed
    asteroidrules's Avatar
    January 2011
    11,410 Posts
    No. The Japanese fleet that was approaching Pearl Harbor was under radio silence.

    Yes, there were rumors of something happening on that day, but the government expected at worst for there to be a strike on Guam or one of the islands near Australia.
    Early warning stations did detect and report the incoming planes, but the commanders were too cocky to consider it was an attack.

    But either way: this is a 9/11 conspiracy thread, not a Pearl Harbor thread.

  32. Post #72
    President of the Westboro Baptist Church Fan Club
    Dennab
    February 2012
    2,084 Posts
    The Al-Q did it with CIA training, and that's the most important part. It was the chickens coming home to roost. Whether or not we allowed it to happen is up for debate, but we certainly exploited it to the best of our abilities. The only conspiracy is that of capital
    1. Please explain this "CIA training" you speak of.
    2. How was it exploited?

  33. Post #73
    hey
    Ownederd's Avatar
    August 2006
    6,087 Posts
    1. Please explain this "CIA training" you speak of.
    2. How was it exploited?
    The CIA training to the mujahadeen during the Soviet intervention in the Afghani Civil Warprovided crucial information to what later would become the Al Qaeda. And it was exploited so they could pull off the War in Iraq, fearmongering with Iran, and shit like the PATRIOT ACT.

  34. Post #74
    Gold Member
    sgman91's Avatar
    July 2006
    4,289 Posts
    9/11 conspiracies are the liberal equivalent to the Republican birther movement. There are crazy people in both parties willing to believe anything that makes the other side look bad.

  35. Post #75
    gooby pls

    April 2011
    86 Posts
    I think that the government did not plan the attacks, nor did they make them become an act - but I think they took those buildings down by force.

    I personally think there was something in the building not meant to be seen so they had no choice. I've seen the videos and hear the booms, and during the booms it wasn't people falling. I want to think I am wrong, but you never know since no one will come out with the truth.

    Also on the WTC 7(or 9? not sure) I didn't look into it much but it looked like it fell from explosives in the way it did but yet again I could be wrong.

  36. Post #76

    April 2012
    1 Posts
    My teacher taught us Bush works for someone called Global Elite :|

    And 9'11 was to take away american rights

  37. Post #77
    bora: I saved you from seeing my crazy salami nipples
    PrivRyan's Avatar
    November 2007
    1,384 Posts
    So I found this.
    Interesting stuff.

  38. Post #78
    Governor Goblin's Avatar
    December 2011
    2,782 Posts
    9/11 conspiracies are the liberal equivalent to the Republican birther movement. There are crazy people in both parties willing to believe anything that makes the other side look bad.
    There's a significant amount of right wing truthers. For example, Alex Jones.

  39. Post #79
    Not that bad of a seed
    asteroidrules's Avatar
    January 2011
    11,410 Posts
    My teacher taught us Bush works for someone called Global Elite :|

    And 9'11 was to take away american rights
    File a complaint, that's indoctrination.

    Edited:

    9/11 conspiracies are the liberal equivalent to the Republican birther movement. There are crazy people in both parties willing to believe anything that makes the other side look bad.
    I'd say 9/11 truth is even more conservative than birthers (yes I know Bush was a republican, these people think he was actually too liberal).

  40. Post #80
    Gold Member
    sgman91's Avatar
    July 2006
    4,289 Posts
    There's a significant amount of right wing truthers. For example, Alex Jones.
    Significant? What's your definition of significant? Alex Jones is crazy.