1. Post #1
    RISC MASTER RACE.
    MIPS's Avatar
    August 2010
    7,099 Posts


    Propped up by a shovel that acts as his cane, Vladimir Katriuk putters about his wooded lot in rural Quebec, lovingly caring for his bees and appearing to have few worries other than this season's honey yield.

    But a prominent Jewish human-rights organization insists there's much more to the cordial 91-year-old beekeeper whom they allege is one of the world's most-wanted Nazi war criminals.

    The Simon Wiesenthal Center recently ranked Katriuk No. 4 on its top-10 list of suspected former Nazis, after a new study alleged he was a key participant in a village massacre during the Second World War.

    An academic article alleged that, in 1943, a man with his name lay in wait outside a barn that had been set ablaze, operating a stationary machine-gun and firing on civilians as they tried to escape. The same article said the man took a watch, bracelet and gun from the body of a woman found nearby.

    Katriuk spoke with The Canadian Press this week at his small farm in Ormstown, just under an hour's drive from Montreal.

    He has denied any involvement in war crimes in the past. This week he repeatedly refused to discuss anything about himself other than his passion for honey bees.

    "I have nothing to say," Katriuk said of the accusations, after putting down a beekeeper's smoker and replacing a mesh veil for a floppy ball cap.

    "When we talk about bees, that's different. When we talk about my own affairs, that's something else. I'm sorry."

    Asked how he felt about having his name on the list of worst surviving Nazis, Katriuk paused. He reached into a box and pulled out a piece of a beehive: "You see?" he said. "Here they have started to make the royal cell [for a queen bee]."

    The otherwise chatty Ukrainian-Canadian, who moved to Canada in 1951, claimed he wasn't aware his name was added to the Simon Wiesenthal Center's list.

    When pressed again about the allegations, he replied: "Let people talk."

    Katriuk has faced accusations that he was a Nazi collaborator before, but this week Katriuk seemed fixated only on his bees, and their well-being. He even rushed to one bee's defence.

    "Don't move, don't move, don't move," Katriuk shouted at a news photographer who tried to swat a bee that had landed on his lapel. "Stay still and that's it."

    Katriuk had an operation on his left knee three years ago and needs another one on his right, so he hobbles while moving between the close to 20 beehives that sit in rows on his land.

    Despite the aches, he appears sturdy for his age.

    "It's thanks to the bees that I'm still alive and that I can still move around," Katriuk said over the constant background hum of the insects.

    Katriuk, who lives in a small house on the property with his wife, has been raising bees since 1959 and he insists he has only been stung a few times.

    "I'm not scared of bees," said Katriuk, who sells honey off from his property for about $1.75 per pound. "You have to go softly, you can't agitate them."

    A neighbour described Katriuk as a quiet man who keeps to himself in the sparsely populated area, only a few kilometres from the U.S. border.

    "He's a quiet guy. I don't think he mixes in the community ever," said the man, who did not want to be named.

    Court case found lack of evidence
    The neighbour acknowledged that locals are aware of the allegations about Katriuk, which have made many news headlines over the years.

    The Federal Court ruled in 1999 that Katriuk lied about his voluntary service for German authorities during the Second World War in order to obtain Canadian citizenship.

    The court concluded Katriuk had been a member of a Ukrainian battalion implicated in numerous atrocities in Ukraine including the deaths of thousands of Jews in Belorussia between 1941 and 1944.

    But in 2007 the Canadian government overturned an earlier decision to revoke Katriuk's citizenship, due to a lack of evidence.

    Article ties Katriuk to 1943 massacre
    Groups that have long been calling on the government to strip Katriuk of his citizenship now hope that fresh details published in a recent journal article will help change Ottawa's mind.

    The article alleges Katriuk was directly involved in the March 1943 massacre that "annihilated" the German-occupied village of Khatyn in Belorussia, which is now Belarus.

    Soldiers allegedly herded villagers into a barn and lit the roof on fire with a torch, according to witness testimony published in the article titled, "The Khatyn Massacre in Belorussia: A Historical Controversy Revisited."

    "One witness stated that Volodymyr Katriuk was a particularly active participant in the atrocity: he reportedly lay behind the stationary machine gun, firing rounds on anyone attempting to escape the flames," said the article, authored by Lund University historian Per Anders Rudling.

    Rudling, whose research was published in the spring 2012 issue of Holocaust Genocide Studies, attributed these details to KGB interrogations released for the first time in 2008.

    Ottawa asked to intervene
    After these new allegations surfaced, B'nai Brith Canada urged the Canadian government in a letter to reconsider its position on Katriuk.

    David Matas, the organization's senior legal counsel, said Katriuk's case could also be raised Thursday with Stephen Harper himself during a scheduled B'nai Brith meeting with the prime minister.

    Before the meeting with Harper, Matas said Canada's history in dealing with suspected war criminals has been "bleak."

    "It was easier after [the Second World War] to get into Canada if you were a Nazi war criminal, than if you were a Jewish refugee," Matas said.

    A spokeswoman for Immigration Minister Jason Kenney said the Harper government "remains committed to identifying and removing people involved in war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide from Canada, including revisiting new evidence on previously examined cases."

    Ana Curic also said Kenney had "a fruitful discussion" with Holocaust survivors earlier this week, reassuring them that the government remains committed to the Katriuk case.

    The Simon Wiesenthal Center's so-called "Chief Nazi-Hunter" alleges the new "hard evidence" in Rudling's article will change everything in Katriuk's case.

    Efraim Zuroff, co-ordinator of the organization's Nazi war crimes research project, said the most-wanted list also includes another Canadian: Helmut Oberlander, who's ranked at No. 10.

    Oberlander's case is also in limbo, the group says.

    Age a Factor
    Zuroff said the biggest problem in bringing suspected Nazis to justice is not finding them or the evidence but a lack of political will in many countries to see that they're prosecuted.

    "What's the chance of a 90-year-old Nazi war criminal committing murder again? Zero," Zuroff said in an phone interview from the Jerusalem area.

    "All they have to do is wait it out. People are going to die soon anyway and they'll spare themselves the expense, the embarrassment and the problems logistically or whatever of prosecuting one of their own [citizens]."

    Katriuk thought his own time was up last fall, when an ulcer burst in his stomach.

    "I was almost finished," said Katriuk.

    He added that he received five litres of blood during his two-week stay in hospital.

    He hinted that one day he might tell his story but he didn't say when.

    "When it's time to talk, I will talk," he said. "Right now is not the time for me to talk."
    **SOURCE**

    Not to really rip on the jewish community and sound insensitive but give the guy a break. He's 91 fucking years old. Remember the last time shit went to court? It was delayed to fuck and in the end the guy died less than a year later. Putting him into the courts now is not only a waste of time but also of money.
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  2. Post #2
    He doesn't have much time left. Just leave him alone.
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  3. Post #3
    Gold Member
    The mouse's Avatar
    March 2009
    8,314 Posts
    I like how noone ever acknowledges allied war crimes, but pursue single 90year old axis soldiers.
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  4. Post #4
    Simples's Avatar
    December 2009
    3,352 Posts
    He doesn't have much time left. Just leave him alone.
    Putting him in court will also likely shorten his already diminishing time left, just the leave the guy alone, he's had over 60 years of it on his concious.
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  5. Post #5
    Gold Member
    Valdor's Avatar
    May 2008
    7,689 Posts
    I like how noone ever acknowledges allied war crimes, but pursue single 90year old axis soldiers.
    well the allies won the war

    (don't know why i was rated dumb, it's pretty common for the side that wins the war to not be held accountable for pretty much any of their actions)
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  6. Post #6
    XIII's Avatar
    August 2005
    115 Posts
    well the allies won the war
    Yeah, it's almost like admitting to your own mistakes when really you don't have to.
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  7. Post #7
    President of the Westboro Baptist Church Fan Club
    Dennab
    February 2012
    2,084 Posts
    OK, if they can prove it was him who massacred those civilians then he deserves to bee held accountable. No need to jail him because he's probably going to die soon anyway. But if he actually did kill all those people, he deserves to bee known as the killer he is.

    (User was banned for this post ("Puns" - Orkel))
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  8. Post #8
    Terminutter's Avatar
    June 2010
    6,203 Posts
    Even if he did do it, what would have happened to him if he had refused to do it? Chances are summary court martial or similar.
    He's old, has lived with what he may have done (if he did it) for all of his life, and a trial for something like that would kill him. Just leave him be.

  9. Post #9
    Last or First's Avatar
    December 2009
    4,384 Posts
    Asked how he felt about having his name on the list of worst surviving Nazis, Katriuk paused. He reached into a box and pulled out a piece of a beehive: "You see?" he said. "Here they have started to make the royal cell [for a queen bee]."
    "Sir, your name is on a list of the worst surviving Nazis, and we believe you may have taken part in the killing of fleeing civilians. What do you have to say for yourself?"
    "...
    Look. Beeeees. I love bees."

    Putting him in court will also likely shorten his already diminishing time left, just the leave the guy alone, he's had over 60 years of it on his concious.
    Plus, he's the only one who can tame the bees.
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  10. Post #10
    President of the Westboro Baptist Church Fan Club
    Dennab
    February 2012
    2,084 Posts
    I like how noone ever acknowledges allied war crimes, but pursue single 90year old axis soldiers.
    And any Allied war criminals would also bee 90 year old men who will die soon.
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  11. Post #11
    I can't think of a good title.
    Reds's Avatar
    May 2010
    16,602 Posts
    We can't let them do this.
    If he goes, the bees will turn on us.
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  12. Post #12
    Tommyx50's Avatar
    July 2010
    622 Posts
    Yeah... Trying to punish him is a waste of time.

    Anyways, if you ask me, punishment should only be used to get people back to normal, y'know. It's not as revenge, but rehabilitation. The idea isn't to wipe them from the face of society, but instead allow them to fit in once again. That's why I'm so against the death penalty, It doesn't give people that chance, it makes no real sense.

    This guy MIGHT have done something wrong 60 years ago. But now, he's ok. He's essentially rehabilitated, he's not a drain on society, he's causing no problems, and he hasn't caused problems for decades. He should be allowed to stay as he is now.
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  13. Post #13
    I survived Camp FP 2010
    LordLoss's Avatar
    January 2007
    2,683 Posts
    Nazi war criminal? Just looks like a tired old man to me.
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  14. Post #14
    I'm a Wizard
    Olas's Avatar
    March 2006
    2,700 Posts
    He is obviously running a secret camp that is training Nazi bees
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  15. Post #15
    Gold Member
    Paravin's Avatar
    November 2007
    9,167 Posts
    How about, instead of chasing after dying Nazis, the world turns its fucking head to Russia and takes care of the SHITLOAD of political and war criminals who have nested there under the protection of the government? Oh wait, no one will do a thing, because USSR won the war and the last 70 years in Eastern Europe NEVER existed.
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  16. Post #16
    Gold Member
    carcarcargo's Avatar
    October 2007
    15,081 Posts
    I say put him on trial, no one should be allowed to get away with this stuff, age shouldn't factor in.
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  17. Post #17

    May 2010
    1,117 Posts
    Studies show if you were him, you'd have committed the same atrocities.
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  18. Post #18
    Gold Member
    Mingebox's Avatar
    February 2010
    14,615 Posts
    Studies show if you were him, you'd have committed the same atrocities.
    I think looting the bodies is just a little excessive.
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  19. Post #19
    Gold Member
    Zang-Pog's Avatar
    August 2006
    5,881 Posts
    Even if he might have done horrible things, I'll only think this sort of shit is okay when everybody who commited warcrimes is equally hunted down and accused of that stuff, not just the nazis.
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  20. Post #20
    Yeah... Trying to punish him is a waste of time.

    Anyways, if you ask me, punishment should only be used to get people back to normal, y'know. It's not as revenge, but rehabilitation. The idea isn't to wipe them from the face of society, but instead allow them to fit in once again. That's why I'm so against the death penalty, It doesn't give people that chance, it makes no real sense.

    This guy MIGHT have done something wrong 60 years ago. But now, he's ok. He's essentially rehabilitated, he's not a drain on society, he's causing no problems, and he hasn't caused problems for decades. He should be allowed to stay as he is now.
    God I hate the word punishment when it comes to criminals. Punishment does not turn people back to normal.
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  21. Post #21
    Gold Member
    carcarcargo's Avatar
    October 2007
    15,081 Posts
    Even if he might have done horrible things, I'll only think this sort of shit is okay when everybody who commited warcrimes is equally hunted down and accused of that stuff, not just the nazis.
    Most of them are, look at Radovan Karadzic as an example of such.
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  22. Post #22
    beep
    codemaster85's Avatar
    January 2006
    7,572 Posts
    "LeMay said, "If we'd lost the war, we'd all have been prosecuted as war criminals." And I think he's right. He, and I'd say I, were behaving as war criminals. LeMay recognized that what he was doing would be thought immoral if his side had lost. But what makes it immoral if you lose and not immoral if you win?" - Robert McNamara on the WW2 firebombings in japan.
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  23. Post #23

    January 2012
    69 Posts
    "Jewish human-rights organization" - lol
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  24. Post #24
    ThunderGod's Avatar
    May 2010
    425 Posts
    Are people suggesting that the amount of war crimes were balanced between sides? I can't really accept that interpretation.

  25. Post #25
    Gold Member
    Zang-Pog's Avatar
    August 2006
    5,881 Posts
    Are people suggesting that the amount of war crimes were balanced between sides? I can't really accept that interpretation.
    I'm pretty sure everybody is talking about how the "winners" of WW2 have same sort of shit under their belt, but you don't see anybody shaking the bash-stick at them

  26. Post #26
    SK17a
    garychencool's Avatar
    October 2010
    13,598 Posts
    Catching KONY is way more important right now that what happened in World War II!

    /modern day hipsters
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  27. Post #27
    bunnyspy1's Avatar
    August 2009
    4,246 Posts
    "Jewish human-rights organization" - lol
    I don't get it

  28. Post #28
    Gold Member
    squids_eye's Avatar
    July 2006
    5,764 Posts
    He's obviously not a threat to anyone and has had to deal with what he did for 70 years. Is there even any point in putting him in prison anymore?

  29. Post #29
    kaven's Avatar
    August 2009
    625 Posts
    How comethey still prosecute him after he has been found innocent once before? isn't it illegal to prosecute people twice for the same crime?

  30. Post #30
    Gold Member
    The golden's Avatar
    June 2005
    15,592 Posts
    I don't get it
    The Jewish don't exactly have the cleanest of histories when it comes to human rights. They are not ones to talk when it comes to human rights.

    People seem to think that beacuse they were greatly wronged during WW2 that they are 100% innocent, even though they have quite the history of being dicks. (NOT saying that they're treatment during WW2 was right)
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  31. Post #31
    Catching KONY is way more important right now that what happened in World War II!

    /modern day hipsters
    Is it not? Something that's happening now is more important than something that happened almost 100 years ago.
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  32. Post #32
    Proudly supporting the JIDF
    Dennab
    July 2010
    22,111 Posts
    The Jewish don't exactly have the cleanest of histories when it comes to human rights. They are not ones to talk when it comes to human rights.

    People seem to think that beacuse they were greatly wronged during WW2 that they are 100% innocent, even though they have quite the history of being dicks. (NOT saying that they're treatment during WW2 was right)
    The Jews did kind of get treated like shit for running banks and accumulating loadsemone. Whenever a loan was overdue, you went on a pogrom and suddenly your debt is gone.
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  33. Post #33
    Gold Member
    carcarcargo's Avatar
    October 2007
    15,081 Posts
    The Jewish don't exactly have the cleanest of histories when it comes to human rights. They are not ones to talk when it comes to human rights.

    People seem to think that beacuse they were greatly wronged during WW2 that they are 100% innocent, even though they have quite the history of being dicks. (NOT saying that they're treatment during WW2 was right)
    Don't slap the Israeli label on all Jews, most Jews have done nothing wrong.
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  34. Post #34
    Gold Member
    The golden's Avatar
    June 2005
    15,592 Posts
    Don't slap the Israeli label on all Jews, most Jews have done nothing wrong.
    I'm just sayin' they have a sketchy history when it comes to human rights. That's all. (Hence the guys "lol" comment)
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  35. Post #35
    gay mexican
    Lankist's Avatar
    July 2006
    14,576 Posts
    You know, after a certain point, you gotta' let it go.

    These sorts of vendettas are what put Hitler into power to begin with. People were pissed right the fuck off about the Treaty of Versailles, and they were looking for any reason to flip their shit.

    I've got no sympathy for a nazi, but really. They're irrelevant now. We shouldn't be keeping grudges so long, despite what they did. Let the curtain fall on their regime.
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  36. Post #36
    Dennab
    September 2011
    3,417 Posts
    Fucking ego-smearing cunts, just fucking give up with this useless bullshit.
    This is not about a goddamn justice, this is purely for the sake of revenge.
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  37. Post #37
    Gold Member
    bIgFaTwOrM12's Avatar
    October 2010
    1,482 Posts
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  38. Post #38
    Gold Member
    Psychokitten's Avatar
    July 2009
    12,223 Posts
    Do they even have anything more than hearsay that he was involved?

  39. Post #39
    Gold Member
    Carne's Avatar
    December 2007
    8,304 Posts
    Do they even have anything more than hearsay that he was involved?
    While I don't think he should be imprisoned at this age, the way he avoids the questions make me believe he's had some part in it.
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  40. Post #40
    kaven's Avatar
    August 2009
    625 Posts
    While I don't think he should be imprisoned at this age, the way he avoids the questions make me believe he's had some part in it.
    The question is how large part he had in it. Maybe he just got severely traumatized by the event.
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