1. Post #161
    RUBY OVERLORD
    swift and shift's Avatar
    November 2011
    2,115 Posts
    This would be better with a Zenburn colour scheme, not "here let me shove blue and white LEDs in your eyes" tbh
    or cobalt
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  2. Post #162
    Gold Member
    gparent's Avatar
    January 2005
    3,949 Posts
    In general, software dev. really isn't like any form of engineering :\

    In software, it's usually better to prototype, get feedback, and fix what actually needs fixing afterwards than to try to predict and control every step of the way.
    At least in my inexperienced opinion.
    Eh, I don't think that's fair. Essentially your goal as a software 'engineer' (let's call it that for the sake of the argument) is pretty much the Wikipedia definition of it:

    Engineering is the discipline, art, skill, profession, and technology of acquiring and applying scientific, mathematical, economic, social, and practical knowledge, in order to design and build structures, machines, devices, systems, materials and processes.
    In that sense, I think building software can definitely be called engineering. You are applying practical knowledge to design and build software/systems.

    Now, if we continue:
    American Engineers' Council for Professional Development engineering definition posted:
    The creative application of scientific principles to design or develop structures, machines, apparatus, or manufacturing processes, or works utilizing them singly or in combination; or to construct or operate the same with full cognizance of their design; or to forecast their behavior under specific operating conditions; all as respects an intended function, economics of operation and safety to life and property.
    Are we applying scientific principles? To be honest, I didn't study long enough to know if what we do is considered scientific. But essentially you define software and how it is supposed to act, in order for the software to work under specific conditions (and unexpected ones perhaps).

    This is what you do when writing software. You write a spec, you refine it, you write it, you test if it works, and if it does, you ship. Sure, you might have bugs, but other fields have that problem: bridges have been built that couldn't handle enough load, specifications are sometimes inaccurate leading to decisions being taken on the fly to deal with this, etc.

    Maybe I'm not understanding the definition of engineering, but it seems exactly like what I do.
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  3. Post #163
    mutated's Avatar
    October 2010
    1,514 Posts
    as a hobbyist programmer, I don't mind the general sense and feel of the editor, and I'm assuming (or suggesting) that the colors of the UI can be changed with some built-in options. I don't think I'd keep things transparent and quite so glowy, but it's certainly something to bear in mind.

    when there is some kind of build released for that, I'll give it a try. keep up the good work!

  4. Post #164
    Gold Member
    Asgard's Avatar
    July 2010
    3,604 Posts
    When I download a IDE, I don't want to spend the first hour changing the theme to something my eyes can bear.

    'It's adjustable' isn't an excuse. It should be appealing on the first sight. That's how you get people to download your IDE.
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  5. Post #165
    Rayjingstorm's Avatar
    June 2010
    1,536 Posts
    When I download a IDE, I don't want to spend the first hour changing the theme to something my eyes can bear.

    'It's adjustable' isn't an excuse. It should be appealing on the first sight. That's how you get people to download your IDE.
    Do you mean to imply that your idea of an appealing theme is the correct idea thereof?
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  6. Post #166
    Gold Member
    Asgard's Avatar
    July 2010
    3,604 Posts
    Do you mean to imply that your idea of an appealing theme is the correct idea thereof?
    No. However, the ratings on my first post in this thread suggest that my opinion is generally accepted.
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  7. Post #167
    voodooattack's Avatar
    October 2009
    1,936 Posts
    I think they'll deliver an alternative light theme at launch, if not, I'm sure we can come up with something.
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  8. Post #168
    Richy19's Avatar
    May 2010
    5,381 Posts
    When I download a IDE, I don't want to spend the first hour changing the theme to something my eyes can bear.

    'It's adjustable' isn't an excuse. It should be appealing on the first sight. That's how you get people to download your IDE.
    Settings > Visual Settings > Theme > Some Theme

    If it takes an hour to do that then the theme that is set shouldnt be your main concern
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  9. Post #169
    Gold Member

    March 2005
    3,028 Posts
    Eh, I don't think that's fair. Essentially your goal as a software 'engineer' (let's call it that for the sake of the argument) is pretty much the Wikipedia definition of it:


    In that sense, I think building software can definitely be called engineering. You are applying practical knowledge to design and build software/systems.

    Now, if we continue:

    Are we applying scientific principles? To be honest, I didn't study long enough to know if what we do is considered scientific. But essentially you define software and how it is supposed to act, in order for the software to work under specific conditions (and unexpected ones perhaps).

    This is what you do when writing software. You write a spec, you refine it, you write it, you test if it works, and if it does, you ship. Sure, you might have bugs, but other fields have that problem: bridges have been built that couldn't handle enough load, specifications are sometimes inaccurate leading to decisions being taken on the fly to deal with this, etc.

    Maybe I'm not understanding the definition of engineering, but it seems exactly like what I do.
    I've argued that the term 'software engineering' was a little misleading before, but that really isn't the point I was trying to make here. In fact, I'm not sure if I even still stand by that old argument. What I'm saying, simply, is that software development isn't like hardware development, and people should take full advantage of the flexibility afforded to them in software.

    Waterfall-like development processes are unavoidable in hardware because it is exceedingly difficult to go back and fix something once you've gone and set up a factory or, worse, once your product is actually out in consumer's hands. You can't 'patch' hardware like you can patch software.
    So you're forced into this rigid development process. But it's a terrible thing, and software engineers shouldn't opt to emulate it just because that's how it's done with hardware.
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  10. Post #170
    Gold Member
    gparent's Avatar
    January 2005
    3,949 Posts
    But it's a terrible thing, and software engineers shouldn't opt to emulate it just because that's how it's done with hardware.
    You're right, I do not recommend waterfall approaches over agile ones these days, it makes no sense. I must've missed that in your post.

  11. Post #171
    voodooattack's Avatar
    October 2009
    1,936 Posts
    You're right, I do not recommend waterfall approaches over agile ones these days, it makes no sense. I must've missed that in your post.
    Well, that's the thing with agile vs. waterfall strategies, it all comes down to what you're going after: progress or maintainability.

  12. Post #172
    RUBY OVERLORD
    swift and shift's Avatar
    November 2011
    2,115 Posts
    Well, that's the thing with agile vs. waterfall strategies, it all comes down to what you're going after: progress or maintainability.
    waterfall has no benefits
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  13. Post #173
    voodooattack's Avatar
    October 2009
    1,936 Posts
    waterfall has no benefits
    At a certain stage, your code starts growing bigger than you.
    That's the point where you wish you had a waterfall to begin with.
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  14. Post #174
    RUBY OVERLORD
    swift and shift's Avatar
    November 2011
    2,115 Posts
    At a certain stage, your code starts growing bigger than you.
    That's the point where you wish you had a waterfall to begin with.
    even with a codebase of astronomical proportions, waterfall is never good
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  15. Post #175
    hzy
    Gold Member
    hzy's Avatar
    January 2009
    1,943 Posts
    At a certain stage, your code starts growing bigger than you.
    That's the point where you wish you had a waterfall to begin with.
    do you even understand agile?
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  16. Post #176
    Gold Member
    gparent's Avatar
    January 2005
    3,949 Posts
    Well, that's the thing with agile vs. waterfall strategies, it all comes down to what you're going after: progress or maintainability.
    I don't mean "Agile" as in those idiots who think you need one hour meetings every day with performance reports. I just mean the typical approach where developers will incorporate more often user feedback rather than develop in closed walls for years and then coming out with a product that just doesn't meet the client's needs.
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  17. Post #177
    voodooattack's Avatar
    October 2009
    1,936 Posts
    Ah, I get you now, I was thinking in marketing terms, apologies.

    I graduated with a major in Management & IA, so you can see where I'm coming from.

  18. Post #178
    ditoway's Avatar
    May 2012
    5 Posts
    You might want to change the Java text icon from JAV to JAVA.
    JAV is a commonly known acronym for Japanese Adult Video.

    Thought you should know.
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  19. Post #179
    Gold Member
    Jookia's Avatar
    July 2007
    6,768 Posts
    You might want to change the Java text icon from JAV to JAVA.
    JAV is a commonly known acronym for Japanese Adult Video.

    Thought you should know.
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  20. Post #180
    voodooattack's Avatar
    October 2009
    1,936 Posts
    New screenies on facebook:







    I think a light theme won't be a problem now.

  21. Post #181
    Gold Member
    Jookia's Avatar
    July 2007
    6,768 Posts
    JPEG, truly the best image format for screenshots. The IDE is looking good apart from the first shot, which probably intends for your eyes to melt out of your face.
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  22. Post #182

    January 2012
    416 Posts
    It looks alright, however hard to say without trying it. And yeah bud, what's with the absolutely crap image quality?

  23. Post #183
    Gold Member
    Jookia's Avatar
    July 2007
    6,768 Posts
    It looks alright, however hard to say without trying it. And yeah bud, what's with the absolutely crap image quality?
    Facebook fucks up images.
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  24. Post #184
    Gold Member

    March 2005
    3,028 Posts
    The 'minimalistic' theme actually looks alright.
    Aside from the 'HARDCODE' backdrop/watermark. Unnecessary, IMHO.

    It could maybe use some subtle differentiation between elements, though. As-is, it all sort of blends together into one homogeneous lump. And please, dear god, no neon borders. That isn't what I mean by 'subtle differentiation'.
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  25. Post #185
    voodooattack's Avatar
    October 2009
    1,936 Posts
    Aside from the 'HARDCODE' backdrop/watermark. Unnecessary,.
    It's removable.
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  26. Post #186
    Gold Member
    Bluefire's Avatar
    August 2007
    323 Posts
    In my opinion, if this does become free, it would be nice to have as open-source as an entirety, and not as a partially open-source project.

    I can assure you will more than likely have more assistance from some other devs (if hosted on a repo somewhere publicly).

    we just don't want all our hard work to be let loose on the internet. We would like to keep the project on track. We may allow branches later.
    I honestly don't understand why you would want to withhold code if this scenario eventually comes to exist. Projects can be kept on track through a central repo you/your team manages. Hard work, I can somewhat understand this point (although it's hard to relate, since I release all of my code under WTFPL).

    I'd think that you'd squash more bugs in the long run with it being completely open-source, rather than just part of it.

    This is simply an opinion however, so take it how you'd like to.
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  27. Post #187
    Gold Member
    Jookia's Avatar
    July 2007
    6,768 Posts
    Apparently your hard work lessens if you make it open source.
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  28. Post #188
    Map in a box's Avatar
    July 2009
    7,167 Posts
    Imho open source projects are more successful in the psychological way. People get to learn from your code' and praise you for it. Just look at eclipse, it's open source and it has all those awesome plugins.
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  29. Post #189
    Gold Member
    Jookia's Avatar
    July 2007
    6,768 Posts
    Not to be a stick in the mud, but OP seems to have disappeared, which is weird considering their Twitter and Facebook are constantly being updated.

  30. Post #190
    RUBY OVERLORD
    swift and shift's Avatar
    November 2011
    2,115 Posts
    Not to be a stick in the mud, but OP seems to have disappeared, which is weird considering their Twitter and Facebook are constantly being updated.
    he's just sick of all the trolling and negativity !
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  31. Post #191
    Gold Member
    Asgard's Avatar
    July 2010
    3,604 Posts
    -snip-

  32. Post #192
    EGN Founder
    CountNoobula's Avatar
    May 2010
    505 Posts
    We are hard at work on the IDE, we will answer questions as time allows. You can follow our FB page and Twitter feed for development progress (we will soon have a development blog up too). We will update the OP on occasion with new information and announcements, so keep checking back.

    PS: Update posted, it is a bit overdue, most of this was completed a little while ago.

  33. Post #193
    Gold Member
    hexpunK's Avatar
    August 2008
    15,311 Posts
    So where's that list at? I don't mean to detract from the main topic of the thread, but you've been "compiling" this list for days now. It shouldn't take you days for something like that, especially when you used it to big up your own IDE.

  34. Post #194
    EGN Founder
    CountNoobula's Avatar
    May 2010
    505 Posts
    We have been asked by a select few for a list concerning our a line on our website that everyone seems to have taken the wrong way. For those that don't know what was said we stated that we think most other IDE's are badly designed. This was mostly with concern to the user interface and interactive side of the IDE. We originally stated that we would compile a list, and we have actually done this. Its currently 1800 words long, and we were going to post it here to actually just get this over with. Now heres where things are going to change slightly. Firstly after a very long meeting we have decided to NOT post it here because we (to be blatantly honest) are tired of everyone thinking we are bashing other IDE's, and we don't want everyone to take this the wrong way again. If you think we are bashing other IDE's then you are very wrong. We love netbeans, we love coda, Textmate, sublime text and most IDE's that exist. We didn't even mention names in that line and so you cant really say that we are bashing your favorite IDE, because we are not. We generally love most of the features that all these IDE's provide but we find each IDE lacking in other areas. *

    On a side note regarding the entire design of our IDE. Firstly, its a work in progress and by definition, it means we are literally still changing and working on the physical design and operation of the application itself. ALSO it seems everyone has major issue with the transparency. Now if you look at the very first post, it was stated (also in comments and other posts on many other social and internet based networks) that the user interface can 100% change with respect to every single pixel - including alpha masks. This means that you can make theme that really suits your style of work if you don't like any of the included themes. And yes, you can turn of the hardcode branding, as (we hope most developers know) these things are literally adjustable with a simple boolean. So please, if you don't like it, just turn the feature off.

    While we welcome contructive criticism, we will be ignoring any issues that we have already addressed. We do take the comments into account, and will continue to do so as well as implement of some of your suggestions (as the new themes have shown). *But if you honestly hate the IDE, then thats fine, no one is forcing you to switch and forcefully use it. We do however think that if you give us a chance to think differently and really come up with something that could change the face of programming, then you might be pleasantly surprised. Again, its a work in progress, and progress can only be achieved when everyone is willing to provide constructive feedback.

    We'd love your contributions to help us make an IDE that you WANT to use.

    Kind regards, The HardCode team.
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  35. Post #195
    Gold Member
    Jookia's Avatar
    July 2007
    6,768 Posts
    Wait.. So you compiled a detailed list of design flaws in IDEs, but you're not going to post it because you don't want people think you're bashing other IDEs? That makes no sense.

    The request of the list has nothing to do with bashing, it has to do with providing evidence behind claims.

    On top of that, you've just clarified that you're not bashing anything yet you've kept the main statement in the first post, showing you obviously don't care that people misinterpret your statements as long as they're not bashful on your standards. Is it possible that the list itself is bashful?
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  36. Post #196
    T3hGamerDK's Avatar
    January 2011
    2,551 Posts
    Wait.. So you compiled a detailed list of design flaws in IDEs, but you're not going to post it because you don't want people think you're bashing other IDEs? That makes no sense.

    The request of the list has nothing to do with bashing, it has to do with providing evidence behind claims.

    On top of that, you've just clarified that you're not bashing anything yet you've kept the main statement in the first post, showing you obviously don't care that people misinterpret your statements as long as they're not bashful on your standards. Is it possible that the list itself is bashful?
    In case you missed what you just read, they're asking for constructive criticism, and you're not helping at all.
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  37. Post #197
    EGN Founder
    CountNoobula's Avatar
    May 2010
    505 Posts
    -snip-

  38. Post #198
    Gold Member
    Jookia's Avatar
    July 2007
    6,768 Posts
    In case you missed what you just read, they're asking for constructive criticism, and you're not helping at all.
    Constructive criticism: Make it FOSS, release a demo. There's not enough information to see anything else bad about the project.

    Finally, because we know how badly most editors are designed, we decided to take this project head on with the most incredible user interface system that can possibly ever exist.
    I understand now that this isn't bashing, although it does come off as it, at least to me.

    All I want is the statement I bolded to be backed up. Could you send me a PM with the list, seeing as I'm the only person who cares?

    Edited:

    THE ONE TIME I SHOULD'VE QUOTED SOMEBODY I GET THIS

    If I were to sum up the above post, it'd be that it just responded to my statements with a quote to the section of post I was critiquing, and saying that I should re-read it to answer my repetitive questions.
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  39. Post #199
    EGN Founder
    CountNoobula's Avatar
    May 2010
    505 Posts
    Constructive criticism: Make it FOSS, release a demo. There's not enough information to see anything else bad about the project.
    We are not about to rush our work, we are working at a speed that is comfortable and secure. We are not going to rush it and risk having to come back later. Have patience and if any constructive criticism comes up that noone else has mentioned, please mention it.


    I understand now that this isn't bashing, although it does come off as it, at least to me.

    All I want is the statement I bolded to be backed up. Could you send me a PM with the list, seeing as I'm the only person who cares?
    Please refer to our post (We are not about to bash other IDE's, it is not what was intended in that original post and we are not about to change to suit your meaning).


    Edited:

    THE ONE TIME I SHOULD'VE QUOTED SOMEBODY I GET THIS

    If I were to sum up the above post, it'd be that it just responded to my statements with a quote to the section of post I was critiquing, and saying that I should re-read it to answer my repetitive questions.
    If you read the post above that you would have noticed we covered your question in there, most of your posts towards us have been regarding the same topic and the same question. It is therefore deemed in our eyes repetitive.

  40. Post #200
    Icedshot's Avatar
    April 2010
    2,325 Posts
    Wait.. So you compiled a detailed list of design flaws in IDEs, but you're not going to post it because you don't want people think you're bashing other IDEs? That makes no sense.

    The request of the list has nothing to do with bashing, it has to do with providing evidence behind claims.

    On top of that, you've just clarified that you're not bashing anything yet you've kept the main statement in the first post, showing you obviously don't care that people misinterpret your statements as long as they're not bashful on your standards. Is it possible that the list itself is bashful?
    Can't you focus on something else for 10 minutes. Constantly hassling him/them for a list that you want isn't constructive
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