1. Post #1
    Some of the nation's 200 F-22 Raptor pilots want to be moved into other jobs because of oxygen-deficit problems with the stealth fighter, an Air Force leader said Monday.

    Gen. Mike Hostage, commander of Air Combat Command at Langley Air Force Base in Hampton, Va., told reporters that a "very small" number of pilots have asked not to fly the fifth-generation fighter jets or to be reassigned.

    "Obviously it's a very sensitive thing because we are trying to ensure that the community fully understands all that we're doing to try to get to a solution," Hostage said.

    He did not provide exact figures on the number of pilots who have asked to not fly the jets and said each pilot's request would be handled individually.

    Air Force officials believe the airplane is safe to fly ó Hostage noted that he'll fly soon because he won't ask a pilot to do something that he will not.

    "I'm going to check out and fly the airplane so I can understand exactly what it is they're dealing with. The day we figure out what the problem is I will stop flying (the plane) because we don't have enough sorties for all of our combat aviators to get as much training as they need," he said.

    The nation's F-22 fighter jets were grounded for four months last year after pilots complained of experiencing a lack of oxygen that can cause dizziness and blackouts. Air Force officials said they have taken steps against the problem, but still haven't pinpointed what's causing the hypoxia-like symptoms. Hypoxia is when the body doesn't receive enough oxygen.

    An Air Force panel is meeting weekly to investigate the problem and has enlisted the help of NASA and the Navy to learn more about what happens to the body under extreme conditions, among other things.

    Hostage spoke during a media day event at the base, highlighting the nation's most advanced fighter plane. After being introduced in 2005, the last of nearly 190 jets are scheduled to be delivered to the Air Force this week.

    At a price tag of $143 million each, the Raptor has come under some criticism for not being used in place of older and less-sophisticated jets in Iraq or Afghanistan.

    Hostage said the plane is critical to maintaining the nation's air superiority in the future and that he wishes he had more of the jets at his disposal. On Monday, Iran's defense minister said that reports of the stealth fighter jet being deployed to the United Arab Emirates would damage regional security, the semiofficial ISNA news agency reported.

    Without saying which country in the region the F-22s were deployed to ó or which base or bases they were deployed from ó Hostage said there's a reason other nations take note of the plane's movements.

    "People pay attention to where this airplane goes and what it does because, regardless of the furor in our press and public about the suitability or the safety of the airplane, they're very worried about its capability. That, to me, means we're on the right path with this capability," he said.

    The planes are stationed at five other bases besides Virginia: Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson, Alaska; Joint Base Pearl Harbor-Hickam, Hawaii; Nellis Air Force Base, Nev.; Holloman Air Force Base, N.M.; and Tyndall Air Force Base, Fla.
    http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/a...1#.T6DuMqsthUS
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  2. Post #2
    zakedodead's Avatar
    September 2007
    3,232 Posts
    Well it seems like the popularity of the f-22 among pilots is hitting some turbulence


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  3. Post #3
    Gold Member
    Pace.'s Avatar
    September 2010
    1,355 Posts
    Well it seems like the popularity of the f-22 among pilots is hitting some turbulence
    well it seems like you're about to get banned



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  4. Post #4
    zakedodead's Avatar
    September 2007
    3,232 Posts
    Actually, no it doesn't

    Edited:

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  5. Post #5
    Badballer's Avatar
    April 2010
    3,300 Posts
    This sounds like a serious problem.



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  6. Post #6
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    May 2010
    2,809 Posts
    What a bunch of Queers
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  7. Post #7
    Gold Member
    T2L_Goose's Avatar
    July 2006
    11,833 Posts
    It's like it was built by the lowest bidder or something.

  8. Post #8
    Jsm
    "Belgium is pretty much a non-country"
    Jsm's Avatar
    June 2006
    7,923 Posts
    well it seems like you're about to get banned

    Check the rules thread, puns are fine again.

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  9. Post #9
    Gold Member
    Mr.Cookie's Avatar
    July 2006
    3,332 Posts
    Shut up Austin Powers.
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  10. Post #10
    2014 SH Pun Award Nominee
    Awesomecaek's Avatar
    January 2009
    21,071 Posts
    sounds like i will stay in the other sections of the forum, from now
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  11. Post #11
    Actually a Time Lord
    Coyoteze's Avatar
    November 2011
    8,055 Posts
    Well it seems like the popularity of the f-22 among pilots is hitting some turbulence
    I never get tired of seeing Mike Myers face.

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  12. Post #12
    Kawaii Member
    CheeseMan's Avatar
    July 2005
    17,260 Posts
    Typical FPers, the moment they get their way they piss hubris everywhere with the force of a fucking fire hose
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  13. Post #13
    USER HAS BEEN DISCONNECTED FROM REALITY - RETRY CONNECTION IN 5 MINUTES
    Dennab
    February 2006
    22,239 Posts
    Typical FPers, the moment they get their way they piss hubris everywhere with the force of a fucking fire hose
    Typical people. Of course when the pun rule is removed people will post mad puns in a thread or two as "celebration". It dies down over time.
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  14. Post #14
    Gold Member
    Pace.'s Avatar
    September 2010
    1,355 Posts
    Check the rules thread, puns are fine again.
    my bad sorry dude
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  15. Post #15
    HEY GUYS DID I MENTION I'M IN THE ARMY
    SKEEA's Avatar
    March 2006
    3,265 Posts
    You would think that the Air Force would be able to make oxygen delivery systems by now.

  16. Post #16
    retroboy4's Avatar
    April 2007
    249 Posts
    You would think that the Air Force would be able to make oxygen delivery systems by now.
    By Air Force you mean Lockheed Martin, right?
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  17. Post #17
    sounds like i will stay in the other sections of the forum, from now
    wow so those shitty pun posts actually achieved something good

    Also you would have thought the person flying the thing getting oxygen would have been a top priority when it comes to aircraft design
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  18. Post #18
    Gold Member
    ReligiousNutjob's Avatar
    August 2010
    1,492 Posts
    Ahh this takes me back.

       This is the thread that caused the whole Austin Powers fiasco.   

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  19. Post #19
    USER HAS BEEN DISCONNECTED FROM REALITY - RETRY CONNECTION IN 5 MINUTES
    Dennab
    February 2006
    22,239 Posts
    You would think that the Air Force would be able to make oxygen delivery systems by now.
    This might not be a problem with the oxygen delivery.

    "An Air Force panel is meeting weekly to investigate the problem and has enlisted the help of NASA and the Navy to learn more about what happens to the body under extreme conditions, among other things."

    This suggests that it might be a design or manufacturing flaw in the aircraft. It might have to do with the forces that the body is put under when the aircraft is flying. Just because the symptoms are related to lack of oxygen doesn't mean that the pilot isn't inhaling enough oxygen, only that their brain is not getting the oxygen it needs. These things happen when a pilot tries to make too sharp of a turn as well(since all the vertical G's push the blood towards the legs).

    Also, since this is a few pilots(versus a majority of pilots) complaining, it might be inferred that the problem lies in the individuals(maybe their body is pre-disposed to a certain phenomena that we were previously ignorant of), or it's a problem in the individual planes(like a defect that went undetected).

    Right now they don't seem to know much, so it really could be anything. However, I don't think the aircraft itself is ill-designed as far as oxygen delivery systems go. At least not necessarily.

  20. Post #20
    Gold Member
    S31-Syntax's Avatar
    October 2007
    9,818 Posts
    General Hostage?

    Not the best name for a high ranking official.

    "Name's Hostage"
    'A HOSTAGE? WHERE??'
    "Its me, dumbass!"
    'DON'T WORRY SIR, I'LL GET YOU TO SAFETY'
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  21. Post #21
    Gold Member
    BusterBluth's Avatar
    November 2008
    4,221 Posts
    Ahh this takes me back.

       This is the thread that caused the whole Austin Powers fiasco.   
    Oh lordy, those where the days.
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  22. Post #22
    Gold Member
    Used Car Salesman's Avatar
    April 2009
    8,908 Posts
    Hahaha, it's the closest thing we have to a real life X-wing and our best pilots don't want anything to do with it.

    "Sure, it's awesome, but I don't want to fucking suffocate."
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  23. Post #23
    Gold Member
    Matriax's Avatar
    November 2006
    704 Posts
    It's like it was built by the lowest bidder or something.
    Welcome to the wonderful world of defence procurement.

  24. Post #24
    Check the rules thread, puns are fine again.
    And sensationalist headlines rejoiced!

    Edited:

    Like whacking it after having a month long erection

  25. Post #25
    Gold Member
    S31-Syntax's Avatar
    October 2007
    9,818 Posts
    And sensationalist headlines rejoiced!

    Edited:

    Like whacking it after having a month long erection
    so it lasts like 10 seconds and jizz rate funny everywhere?
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  26. Post #26
    so it lasts like 10 seconds and jizz rate funny everywhere?
    So it semen.
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  27. Post #27
    Gold Member
    S31-Syntax's Avatar
    October 2007
    9,818 Posts
    So it semen.
    At first glans that didn't make much sense.
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  28. Post #28
    Gold Member
    BusterBluth's Avatar
    November 2008
    4,221 Posts
    At first glans that didn't make much sense.
    Not all jokes are as plane as day.
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  29. Post #29
    Gold Member
    S31-Syntax's Avatar
    October 2007
    9,818 Posts
    Not all jokes are as plane as day.
    Not catching them can be such a drag.
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  30. Post #30
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    January 2012
    1,310 Posts
    Well I do have too say those F-22 are rather breath taking.
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  31. Post #31
    Moderator
    verynicelady's Avatar
    July 2007
    5,296 Posts
    Jokes and puns relevant to the news story are fine. Posting tired memes will still get you banned.
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  32. Post #32
    Gold Member
    S31-Syntax's Avatar
    October 2007
    9,818 Posts
    I was gonna stop anyway before I get in over my-

    okayokayokay I'm done sorry.
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  33. Post #33
    OvB
    Facepunch resident scientist
    OvB's Avatar
    March 2007
    13,017 Posts
    "When they said the airframe was breathtaking, I didn't know they literally ment it!"
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  34. Post #34
    I SHOULDN'T OWN A FIREARM
    GunFox's Avatar
    May 2005
    7,474 Posts
    That article is very oddly constructed.

    If you read it, it never realllllly gives any indication that the majority of requests to not fly the aircraft are even related to the O2 issues.

    If I was a pilot, I'd be ten times more likely to not want to fly the things simply because they never get used. I'd rather be in an F-15, which can at least occasionally be sortied to attack ground targets and are still used as the backbone of our air superiority capabilities. What is the point of being an elite pilot of an advanced aircraft if everyone is too afraid to utilize them.
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  35. Post #35
    HEY GUYS DID I MENTION I'M IN THE ARMY
    SKEEA's Avatar
    March 2006
    3,265 Posts
    That article is very oddly constructed.

    If you read it, it never realllllly gives any indication that the majority of requests to not fly the aircraft are even related to the O2 issues.

    If I was a pilot, I'd be ten times more likely to not want to fly the things simply because they never get used. I'd rather be in an F-15, which can at least occasionally be sortied to attack ground targets and are still used as the backbone of our air superiority capabilities. What is the point of being an elite pilot of an advanced aircraft if everyone is too afraid to utilize them.
    Same kinda song and dance with the Army's Apaches. Part of the problem is that they have a horrible OR rating due to it being an avionics nightmare and always has red x conditions grounding them, but also because they are expensive. The Army flies OH-58Ds out instead of apaches 90% of the time anyways, because they are cheap and effective, while having the highest OR rating in the army.

  36. Post #36
    Tony's Avatar
    September 2011
    733 Posts
    This might not be a problem with the oxygen delivery.

    "An Air Force panel is meeting weekly to investigate the problem and has enlisted the help of NASA and the Navy to learn more about what happens to the body under extreme conditions, among other things."

    This suggests that it might be a design or manufacturing flaw in the aircraft. It might have to do with the forces that the body is put under when the aircraft is flying. Just because the symptoms are related to lack of oxygen doesn't mean that the pilot isn't inhaling enough oxygen, only that their brain is not getting the oxygen it needs. These things happen when a pilot tries to make too sharp of a turn as well(since all the vertical G's push the blood towards the legs).

    Also, since this is a few pilots(versus a majority of pilots) complaining, it might be inferred that the problem lies in the individuals(maybe their body is pre-disposed to a certain phenomena that we were previously ignorant of), or it's a problem in the individual planes(like a defect that went undetected).

    Right now they don't seem to know much, so it really could be anything. However, I don't think the aircraft itself is ill-designed as far as oxygen delivery systems go. At least not necessarily.
    I don't understand your logic there.

    If it was an issue with the g-force on the body while flying:

    1 - The pilot would know that it's because of a g-load and not the oxygen delivery system because they would feel the effects of the g-force. They said they felt dizzyness/hypoxia-like symptoms, so it's not related to the g-force at all. The symptoms of a high g-load is pretty much just pain until you hit the tunnel vision and blackout, not to mention to pull a g-load that you would actually feel you need to intentionally do it, the aircraft won't suddenly pull a huge g-load with no input from the pilot.
    2 - If it was extreme g-force causing it, the pilot would be dead/airframe would be shredded, not to mention the pilot would sure as hell know if they were pulling some extreme over-g.
    3 - I doubt it's a physical problem with the pilots, since they're screened in hyperbaric chambers as part of training to deal with hypoxia on a regular basis. Possible though.

    Remember that there are 2 oxygen supplies in the cockpit, the pressurised cabin and the oxygen mask. I have no idea which is the issue - I assume the cockpit pressurisation, since if it was the oxygen mask they would just be able to take the mask off and breathe the oxygen in the cockpit - although it's possible that they did just that. Both the cockpit oxygen and the oxygen from the mask run on different systems (i.e the O2 is drawn from different tanks) so hopefully the issue is just isolated to one system.

    It could be something as simple as the oxygen tanks on board were contaminated on a few jets, or it could be something a lot worse.

  37. Post #37

    December 2005
    92 Posts
    I don't understand your logic there.

    If it was an issue with the g-force on the body while flying:

    1 - The pilot would know that it's because of a g-load and not the oxygen delivery system because they would feel the effects of the g-force. They said they felt dizzyness/hypoxia-like symptoms, so it's not related to the g-force at all. The symptoms of a high g-load is pretty much just pain until you hit the tunnel vision and blackout, not to mention to pull a g-load that you would actually feel you need to intentionally do it, the aircraft won't suddenly pull a huge g-load with no input from the pilot.
    2 - If it was extreme g-force causing it, the pilot would be dead/airframe would be shredded, not to mention the pilot would sure as hell know if they were pulling some extreme over-g.
    3 - I doubt it's a physical problem with the pilots, since they're screened in hyperbaric chambers as part of training to deal with hypoxia on a regular basis. Possible though.

    Remember that there are 2 oxygen supplies in the cockpit, the pressurised cabin and the oxygen mask. I have no idea which is the issue - I assume the cockpit pressurisation, since if it was the oxygen mask they would just be able to take the mask off and breathe the oxygen in the cockpit - although it's possible that they did just that. Both the cockpit oxygen and the oxygen from the mask run on different systems (i.e the O2 is drawn from different tanks) so hopefully the issue is just isolated to one system.

    It could be something as simple as the oxygen tanks on board were contaminated on a few jets, or it could be something a lot worse.

    Thing is when you're at the altitude these guys play at you HAVE to have the oxygen forced into you by mask. Sure the cockpit is pressurized, but as you go up in altitude the amount of air you take in, without assistance, decreases and there is a point were your lungs are simply not strong enough to suck in the amount of air needed. I tend to agree with the idea that its an flaw in airframe versus the idea of a personal problem with the pilots.

  38. Post #38
    Tony's Avatar
    September 2011
    733 Posts
    Thing is when you're at the altitude these guys play at you HAVE to have the oxygen forced into you by mask. Sure the cockpit is pressurized, but as you go up in altitude the amount of air you take in, without assistance, decreases and there is a point were your lungs are simply not strong enough to suck in the amount of air needed. I tend to agree with the idea that its an flaw in airframe versus the idea of a personal problem with the pilots.
    Really? Maybe my understanding is wrong, I was under the impression that the higher you went, the less oxygen there is available (i.e the 'thinner' the air), so you can breathe normally, but you just don't get enough oxygen into the lungs, hence the hypoxia. That's where the pressurised cockpit comes in. I'm pretty sure there's no direct effect on how much you can inhale/lung capacity while at altitude.

    In fact I'm definitely right, on commercial flights we can breathe just fine with no assistance.

  39. Post #39
    Clops with bisousbisous daily <3
    Mr. Smartass's Avatar
    December 2010
    9,188 Posts
    Jokes and puns relevant to the news story are fine. Posting tired memes will still get you banned.
    People are still being banned for posting relevant puns to the story.

  40. Post #40

    December 2005
    92 Posts
    Really? Maybe my understanding is wrong, I was under the impression that the higher you went, the less oxygen there is available (i.e the 'thinner' the air), so you can breathe normally, but you just don't get enough oxygen into the lungs, hence the hypoxia. That's where the pressurised cockpit comes in. I'm pretty sure there's no direct effect on how much you can inhale/lung capacity while at altitude.


    In fact I'm definitely right, on commercial flights we can breathe just fine with no assistance.
    Are you a pilot? Commercially rated? If so, what kind of plane do you fly, and what altitude is it typically flown at? Do you know why the airlines give pilots different oxygen mask than the passengers or should I explain to you why?
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