[MBB]

Boxbot219 posted:

That's not how it works. You don't call people a man if they identify themselves as a woman. You do not refer to someone to their biological sex if you are aware of their GID.

No, I'll call someone by whatever god damn pronoun I want.

(User was banned for this post ("Trolling or dumb" - verynicelady))

[N0 WAR]

Reaper3_3 posted:

If I knew somebody that was transgender, then I would definitely respect them and refer to them as they would want. And I'm sure almost everybody here would too. It's human nature to still consider him a man, and refer to them as such, especially on the internet. This isn't a thread about the correct way to refer to somebody transger though, so everybody just chill out.

I don't see how it's human nature. Just about all my friends (because transphobes don't stay friends for long tbh) accept them as their new gender and completely disregard their previous biological sex as a misrepresentation of who they really are.

MBB posted:

No, I'll call someone by whatever god damn pronoun I want.

So you fully embrace being wrong? Now if only you'll just realise it.

[MBB]

KnowProblem posted:

Isn't this going to mess up their singing voice? Just saying. I'm happy for them, but it could mean some serious changes when it comes to the band.

Yep, hormone therapy typically changes the voice. I'm not sure to what extent it could do so if he's already at this age though.

[Zeldy]

The First 11'er posted:

Holy shit, are you literally fucking stupid? Imagine if you had a close friend to you who ultimately decided that they were a girl and for all your lives you were basically friends as how you perceived. Now you're friends with a chick; you don't easily call him a girl. You're obviously so fucking stuck that everyone must go along with what everyone says. I don't give a flying fuck that he chose to be a girl; that's actually great for him because he's doing what he wants to be because he didn't feel he was actually a guy. But it's different when you identified them as a man and all of a sudden that changes.

My sister, who I have known my ENTIRE LIFE now refers to me as a she after I came out to her.

Your argument is invalid (and also dumb).

[mugofdoom]

N0 WAR posted:

Yeah, only after you got destroyed for it. I'm yet to be convinced of what you really think.

I wasn't arguing with anyone over anything, just being a colossal dick, then I felt bad so I started calling her by her preferred gender role.

Anyway you just quoted the least transphobic post I made. I'm merely trying to help your credibility.

[N0 WAR]

mugofdoom posted:

I wasn't arguing with anyone over anything, just being a colossal dick, then I felt bad so I started calling her by her preferred gender role.

Anyway you just quoted the least transphobic post I made. I'm merely trying to help your credibility.

lol, I don't need your excuses, your posts and the replies speak for themselves.

[Megafan]

clucker man posted:

i'll refer to a tranny as to what they were fucking born as

I'd recommend that you stop with that.

[mugofdoom]

N0 WAR posted:

lol, I don't need your excuses, your posts and the replies speak for themselves.

What excuses?

Just quote the right posts, please.

[Zeldy]

MBB posted:

Yep, hormone therapy typically changes the voice. I'm not sure to what extent it could do so if he's already at this age though.

Only in female to males. Testosterone deepens the voice. Estrogen doesn't affect it much in male to females, they have to work really hard and practice to have a voice that passes.

Unless of course they take it BEFORE the voice deepens.

[Reaper3_3]

N0 WAR posted:

I don't see how it's human nature. Just about all my friends (because transphobes don't stay friends for long tbh) accept them as their new gender and completely disregard their previous biological sex as a misrepresentation of who they really are.



So you fully embrace being wrong? Now if only you'll just realise it.

I'm talking about on the internet. When it comes to real life it's obviously different due to having a relationship.

And it's not like it makes them a bad person anyway.

People like Clucker and MBB up there are the real ignorant idiots.

[Socram]

I find it odd how facepunch so adamantly defends transgender people and yet, the majority seems perfectly okay with making fun of other people of other various sexual differences or any difference at all.

[N0 WAR]

mugofdoom posted:

What excuses?

Just quote the right posts, please.

Just because you call her a 'she' doesn't make you not a transphobe. It just makes you scared and trying desperately to justify yourself into a 'moderate' position

mugofdoom posted:

In my defense I did call that black transsexual woman who stabbed a homophobe in self defense a she throughout the entire thread.

mugofdoom posted:

I'm just having a hard time not laughing at the thought of him screaming in his gravelly, broken sounding voice, all buff and tattooed up and wearing a dress, looking like he just stepped out of SNL.

Edited:

Reaper3_3 posted:

I'm talking about on the internet. When it comes to real life it's obviously different due to having a relationship.

So it's alright to treat transgenders you don't know badly, but ones you do fine?

[Zeldy]

Socram posted:

I find it odd how facepunch so adamantly defends transgender people and yet, the majority seems perfectly okay with making fun of other people of other various sexual differences or any difference at all.

I see quite the opposite. Most trans related news articles have many transphobic comments, while anything related to homosexuality is all positive towards them. Though of course any homophobic posters are usually banned.

[mugofdoom]

N0 WAR posted:

Just because you call her a 'she' doesn't make you a transphobe. It just makes you scared and trying desperately to justify yourself into a 'moderate' position

No, I mean quoting my posts that could actually be considered transphobic. I gave you a perfectly good example in my first reply.

You quoted one where I was explaining how "male" would not work as a pronoun. That's not transphobic, "male" actually doesn't work as a pronoun, believe it or not.

[RichardCQ]

Zeldy posted:

I see quite the opposite. Most trans related news articles have many transphobic comments, while anything related to homosexuality is all positive towards them. Though of course any homophobic posters are usually banned.

I think Socram was referring to the fact that a disproportionate amount of FPers are misanthropic or assholes, and that quite a lot of us are surrounded by 'gamer culture' where calling people faggots and racial slurs is prevalent. Maybe not, though.

[Reaper3_3]

N0 WAR posted:

Just because you call her a 'she' doesn't make you not a transphobe. It just makes you scared and trying desperately to justify yourself into a 'moderate' position





Edited:



So it's alright to treat transgenders you don't know badly, but ones you do fine?

No. That's not what I'm saying. At all. Forget it.

Have fun arguing guys.

[Lazor]

Socram posted:

I find it odd how facepunch so adamantly defends transgender people and yet, the majority seems perfectly okay with making fun of other people of other various sexual differences or any difference at all.

that's because most internet posters seem to think that "not opposing gay marriage" makes you the champion of progressive ideals and thus you can say whatever the hell you want no matter how harmful

[N0 WAR]

mugofdoom posted:

No, I mean quoting my posts that could actually be considered transphobic. I gave you a perfectly good example in my first reply.

You quoted one where I was explaining how "male" would not work as a pronoun. That's not transphobic, "male" actually doesn't work as a pronoun, believe it or not.

That was your latest post at the time, I was replying to all of them indirectly.

Besides, you've spent most of the thread saying that she's a bad transgender and a bad woman just because she's in a band you don't like. Granted, I haven't heard this band so I dunno if they're actually that bad or not, but does it matter? Bad singer =/= bad person.

[Megafan]

Zeldy posted:

I see quite the opposite. Most trans related news articles have many transphobic comments, while anything related to homosexuality is all positive towards them. Though of course any homophobic posters are usually banned.

Homophobia and Transphobia, at least in my book, are treated the same here. That's why Jetblack's been banned a number of times for it.

[Boxbot219]

Reaper3_3 posted:

No. That's not what I'm saying. At all. Forget it.

Have fun arguing guys.

I get what you're saying. But people like clucker man and MBB are the reason I feel the need to correct people when they refer to a trans person by the wrong pronoun and explain why it is important to refer to them to the correct one.

[HorizoN]

MBB posted:

Yep, hormone therapy typically changes the voice. I'm not sure to what extent it could do so if he's already at this age though.

How wrong can you be lol?

Hormones do absolutely nothing about voice. Maybe you should research next time.

Referring to MtFs here.

You don't realize how much we go through. Hell training our voice is hard enough.

Oh well, I know what I do to people like you, I shun them and keep them out of my life.

[Reaper3_3]

Boxbot219 posted:

I get what you're saying. But people like clucker man and MBB are the reason I feel the need to correct people when they refer to a trans person by the wrong pronoun and explain why it is important to refer to them to the correct one.

Yeah, I can respect that, they just come across as genuine dicks with the whole "I'LL SAY WHATEVER THE FUCK I WANT HUR HUR"

It's just not necessary to have these pages and pages of the same arguement every thread.

So yeah, I'm heading out. Doubt anythings going to be changing.

[Cone]

mugofdoom posted:

I wasn't arguing with anyone over anything, just being a colossal dick, then I felt bad so I started calling her by her preferred gender role.

evidently you didn't feel bad enough to consider the possibility that just changing a word by two letters doesn't fix transphobic nature

[Boxbot219]

Megafan posted:

Homophobia and Transphobia, at least in my book, are treated the same here. That's why Jetblack's been banned a number of times for it.

Ah yes.

Jetblack357 posted:

Nah, I think im right.


And yes, men have to be men.



THIS is a fucking man.


AND THIS is how a woman should be!




(User was banned for this post ("Obvious trolling and shitting down the thread even more." - Swebonny))

Good times.

[Zeldy]

Megafan posted:

Homophobia and Transphobia, at least in my book, are treated the same here. That's why Jetblack's been banned a number of times for it.

You're a good person.

I'm just saying that I see more people purposefully use the wrong pronoun and generally be pretty disrespectful in trans related articles, than people being disrespectful in a gay related article.

Didn't mean blatant homophobia or transphobia.

[HorizoN]

MBB posted:

No, I'll call someone by whatever god damn pronoun I want.

enjoy not being liked.

[thisispain]

MBB posted:

No, I'll call someone by whatever god damn pronoun I want.

don't throw your toys out of the pram

(User was banned for this post ("Personal reply unrelated to thread topic" - verynicelady))

[mugofdoom]

N0 WAR posted:

That was your latest post at the time, I was replying to all of them indirectly.

Besides, you've spent most of the thread saying that she's a bad transgender and a bad woman just because she's in a band you don't like. Granted, I haven't heard this band so I dunno if they're actually that bad or not, but does it matter? Bad singer =/= bad person.

Well, I never really meant to say she was bad at anything but singing and dressing like a woman. I apologize for any further implications.

[Megafan]

Zeldy posted:

You're a good person.

I'm just saying that I see more people purposefully use the wrong pronoun and generally be pretty disrespectful in trans related articles, than people being disrespectful in a gay related article.

Didn't mean blatant homophobia or transphobia.

Well it's not always obvious, but I do my best to detect the subtleties. In a way, you could compare persistent use of the wrong pronoun (without overt transphobia) to something like dog-whistle racism.

[Jack_Thompson]

Hey Megafan, while you're here could you change the title to say Transgender, instead of Transsexual?

[Megafan]

Jack_Thompson posted:

Hey Megafan, while you're here could you change the title to say Transgender, instead of Transsexual?

That does seem to be the case, the article is referring to gender dysphoria after all.

[Jack_Thompson]

Megafan posted:

That does seem to be the case, the article is referring to gender dysphoria after all.

Muchos gracias

[SilverHammer]

Megafan posted:

I'd recommend that you stop with that.

Anyways, I'm pretty surprised. He/She can do what He/She wants to do but this does shed a little light on why White Crosses was different.

[codemaster85]

Megafan is really the only mod that actually cracks down on transphobes and i respect him for that.

[Lazor]

bring TH89 back and we'll have a crack team of mods that make transphobes and racists mad

[Jacam12SUX]

I've been a huge fan of Tom and Against Me! for years. Although this did surprise me I have nothing but the utmost respect for her and her great music.

[Megafan]

codemaster85 posted:

Megafan is really the only mod that actually cracks down on transphobes and i respect him for that.

Thanks for the appreciation, but I'm just doing my job and I can't take all the credit. Swebonny in particular has banned these types of posters on a fairly regular basis as well.

[Hullu V3]

The name made me think about some emo screamo shit band.

That would've been golden.

[Inufin]

Socram posted:

I find it odd how facepunch so adamantly defends transgender people and yet, the majority seems perfectly okay with making fun of other people of other various sexual differences or any difference at all.

Or that the whole transgender thread just happened to start following this thread. Also, people generally talk less about transgender than gays for example so obviously they are discussed more.

I haven't even seen much hate/joking about sexual differences here.

[Funcoot]

Boxbot219 posted:

Her.

Oh god it begins.

He hasn't made the transition yet, he hasn't even taken on the name. I don't see it rude or out of place to refer to him that way until he takes on the name and the identity.