[Ricool06]

Scientists on Friday said that an experiment which challenged Einstein's theory on the speed of light had been flawed and that sub-atomic particles -- like everything else -- are indeed bound by the universe's speed limit.

Researchers working at the European Centre for Nuclear Research (CERN) caused a storm last year when they published experimental results showing that neutrinos could out-pace light by some six kilometres (3.7 miles) per second.

The findings threatened to upend modern physics and smash a hole in Albert Einstein's 1905 theory of special relativity, which described the velocity of light as the maximum speed in the cosmos.

But CERN now says that the earlier results were wrong and faulty kit was to blame.

"Although this result isn't as exciting as some would have liked, it is what we all expected deep down," said the centre's research director Sergio Bertolucci.

"The story captured the public imagination, and has given people the opportunity to see the scientific method in action.

"An unexpected result was put up for scrutiny, thoroughly investigated and resolved in part thanks to collaboration between normally competing experiments. That's how science moves forward."

Source.

Awww, I sort of wanted this to be true, even though it would fuck up a lot of what schools are teaching.

[DainBramageStudios]

I think the OP just came through a timewarp

[Emperor Scorpious II]

Einstein was a god, of course he wasn't wrong.

[TheSporeGA]

"So you're a neutrino eh? Can you really go faster then light?" The bartender asked.

A neutrino walked into a bar.

[Ricool06]

Sorry if it is late by the way. Did my best to CTRL + F the crap out of Sensationalist Headlines.

[acidcj]

They didn't "admit" anything, because they never made the claim that particles could go faster than light in the first place. The researchers only asked for help in finding their mistake, it was the media who claimed that the researchers said that neutrinos went faster than the speed of light.

[Fedalkyn]

I can't abide by any manner of speed limit, phooey to this

[Bat-shit]

TheSporeGA posted:

"So you're a neutrino eh? Can you really go faster then light?" The bartender asked.

A neutrino walked into a bar.

That's not supposed to make any sense?

[Aegis°]

TheSporeGA posted:

"So you're a neutrino eh? Can you really go faster then light?" The bartender asked.

A neutrino walked into a bar.

Or a neutrino passes right through the bar.

[Saber15]

Bat-shit posted:

That's not supposed to make any sense?

Faster than light travel is time travel.

<sub>The following is known as the Tachyon pistol duel thought experiment. It demonstrates why FTL travel results in time paradoxes. For simplicity of calculation's sake, FTL is considered to have infinite speed, striking its target instantly. The same effects apply with limited FTL velocities, but they are a bitch to do the number crunching with.

Man A and Man B meet at a point in space, and agree to turn around, move away from each other, count down 8 seconds, then turn and fire their weapons at each other. We will follow from man A's perspective.

Both parties exit and travel away from each other at 0.866 C. Man A counts down to 0, turns and then fires. Due to time dilation, when Man A counts to zero, Man B has only counted down to 4, thus his shot flies past Man B at 4 seconds.

Enraged that Man A has fired before he has hit 0, he fires at 4 seconds, and due to time dilation, man A has only counted down to 6! It strikes man A and kills him dead after he has counted down only 2 seconds, a full 6 seconds before he fired his initial shot. A classic grandfather paradox. It gets made worse by the fact that if you started from man B's perspective instead of man A, the exact inverse happens, with man B dead 6 seconds before he fires his shot instead.

So we're not only left with a grandfather paradox, but 2 events that both should have happened, but are mutually exclusive.

The light-speed-limit on information transfer is the ONLY thing that enforces causality. Without causality, the entire foundation of physics crumbles down onto itself.

[Note: This is not mine, all credit goes to Adamgrifs over at gametrailers.]

Anyone else find this completely mind numbing? Pretty crazy stuff. The whole explanation is extremely long, but really interesting. PM me if you want to know all the other stuff.

FTL = Faster than Light</sub>

(The original page with the paradox is now one of those "what you want, when you need it" squatter websites, so take this forum post saying the paradox.)

[overpain]

It's amazing how one man in 20th century managed to create theory that whole world still uses and discovers things, and none of these negates Einstein theory.

[Turnips5]

DainBramageStudios posted:

I think the OP just came through a timewarp

this just in: facepunch user travels backwards in time, was Einstein wrong? more at 11

[mac338]

Emperor Scorpious II posted:

Einstein was a god, of course he wasn't wrong.

And yet he was wrong on much the later half of his life.

[Adbor]

overpain posted:

It's amazing how one man in 20th century managed to create theory that whole world still uses and discovers things, and none of these negates Einstein theory.

[xiohexia]

overpain posted:

It's amazing how one man in 20th century managed to create theory that whole world still uses and discovers things, and none of these negates Einstein theory.

That thought seems stunted considering the thousands of years the wheel has existed and is still used in a near infinite number of technologies.

[SpaceGhost]

-snip- fucked up what i was saying, sorry.

[Clementine]

SpaceGhost posted:

I'm sure someday scientists will discovery groundbreaking particles, maybe other dimensions of space. We can't say Einsteins theory of relativity, because its just that, still a theory. Nothing can really be absolute. It's beyond our intellectual and scientific scope currently.

oh the just a theory argument, how are you doing, haven't seen you around lately

[Turnips5]

SpaceGhost posted:

We can't say Einsteins theory of relativity, because its just that, still a theory.

what the fuck am I reading

we can't call it a theory, because it's just a theory?

[Rahkshi lord]

SpaceGhost posted:

I'm sure someday scientists will discovery groundbreaking particles, maybe other dimensions of space. We can't say Einsteins theory of relativity, because its just that, still a theory. Nothing can really be absolute. It's beyond our intellectual and scientific scope currently.

Scientific theory is not the same as a normal theory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory

[Adbor]

SpaceGhost posted:

I'm sure someday scientists will discovery groundbreaking particles, maybe other dimensions of space. We can't say Einsteins theory of relativity, because its just that, still a theory. Nothing can really be absolute. It's beyond our intellectual and scientific scope currently.

It is you who seems to be operating under the most absolute principles of thinking.
If humanity ever followed that train of thought, no scientific discovery would ever happen - every single scientific breakthrough will most likely be considered primitive in distant future.

All we have ever achieved, science-wise, is based on a certain set of contemporary assumptions and thus is a giant work in progress that is gradually unveiled as we progress through the universe. You're right in saying "nothing is absolute" - humanity, as the residents of the tiny speck of dust in the universe, could never dare to call anything that.

[Parakon]

if only carl sagan had become king of earth

[Krinkels]

Adbor posted:

It is you who seems to be operating under the most absolute principles of thinking.
If humanity ever followed that train of thought, no scientific discovery would ever happen - every single scientific breakthrough will most likely be considered primitive in distant future.

All we have ever achieved, science-wise, is based on a certain set of contemporary assumptions and thus is a giant work in progress that is gradually unveiled as we progress through the universe. You're right in saying "nothing is absolute" - humanity, as the residents of the tiny speck of dust in the universe, could never dare to call anything that.

Shut the fuck up Carl.

[BigBoom]

Smug bastard was right.

[Cone]

well technically you can't be "right" with the scientific method, just "not yet proven to be wrong" and "probably onto something there"

[DOG-GY]

Cone posted:

well technically you can't be "right" with the scientific method, just "not yet proven to be wrong" and "probably onto something there"

unless you turned out to be observably and undoubtedly right

[DainBramageStudios]

SpaceGhost posted:

I'm sure someday scientists will discovery groundbreaking particles, maybe other dimensions of space. We can't say Einsteins theory of relativity, because its just that, still a theory. Nothing can really be absolute. It's beyond our intellectual and scientific scope currently.

Razib Khan posted:

The categories and classes we construct are simply the semantic sugar which makes the reality go down easier. They should never get confused for the reality that is, the reality which we perceive but darkly and with biased lenses. The hyper-relativists and subjectivists who are moderately fashionable in some humane studies today are correct to point out that science is a human construction and endeavor. Where they go wrong is that they are often ignorant of the fact that the orderliness of many facets of nature is such that even human ignorance and stupidity can be overcome with adherence to particular methods and institutional checks and balances. The predictive power of modern science, giving rise to modern engineering, is the proof of its validity. No talk or argumentation is needed. Boot up your computer. Drive your car.

[Adbor]

Krinkels posted:

Shut the fuck up Carl.

[CYBER_C0WB0Y]

European Centre for Nuclear Research is ECNR not CERN.

[Waterpi]

Originally in French: Conseil Européen pour la Recherche Nucléaire
= CERN

[DeanWinchester]

CYBER_C0WB0Y posted:

European Centre for Nuclear Research is ECNR not CERN.

Fox News: The only language on Earth is English, more at 11.

[TehMentos]

overpain posted:

It's amazing how one man in 20th century managed to create theory that whole world still uses and discovers things, and none of these negates Einstein theory.

I think this guy


Lasted quite a while before people started proving him wrong. That's 2000 years ago though.

Sad but true.
One day maybe we'll be extremely surprised when Einstein's theory is proven to be faulty in one way or another.
That's the awesome thing about science.

[SpaceGhost]

Turnips5 posted:

what the fuck am I reading

we can't call it a theory, because it's just a theory?

Shit, I fucked up, I meant we can't say he's 100% right, because it's still a theory. I never meant to act as if we shouldn't be curious and wonder about things, I do not think that way at all.

Fucked up last post, forgot to add a few words.

Edited:

Adbor posted:

It is you who seems to be operating under the most absolute principles of thinking.
If humanity ever followed that train of thought, no scientific discovery would ever happen - every single scientific breakthrough will most likely be considered primitive in distant future.

All we have ever achieved, science-wise, is based on a certain set of contemporary assumptions and thus is a giant work in progress that is gradually unveiled as we progress through the universe. You're right in saying "nothing is absolute" - humanity, as the residents of the tiny speck of dust in the universe, could never dare to call anything that.

I didn't mean we shouldn't pursue scientific advances, or that we shouldn't guess on things. I was just saying that hopefully scientists can prove his theory wrong, maybe near the end of our lifetimes.