[postal]

HI HELLO HOW ARE YOU THAT'S GREAT LOOK AT THIS LOGO


So myself, Jimbomcb (that nope.avi guy), a couple gold members, and all the other COOL moderators have been hard at work over the last few months making a deathmatch modification for half-life 2 deathmatch, basically a sequel to the old half-life 1 mod Jaykin' Bacon. If you want to learn more about this glorious modification, look here: http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1184762 and maybe also here http://www.moddb.com/mods/jaykin-bacon-episode-three

Probably the biggest part of this mod however is going to be the SVT, or SNAKE VS TERRORISTS game mode type, in which 1-3 players are randomly selected to play as snake, and must sneak and occasionally fight their way to the frog located in each map.

We're gonna need a lot of maps, and I figured why not turn to you glorious facepunch mappers to help us pull this off.

What's needed for a snake vs terrorist map??
Well for starters, it needs to be a kinda linear map, with a starting point where the snakes spawn, and the ending point where the frogs spawn. Think like how some CSS maps are (hence we've just been using those in the mean time). Cs_office and de_aztec are great, but something like DM_Overwatch would be awful.
It needs to offer numerous ways for snake to reach the frog, including vents and other things snake can crawl through.
Snake will be able to lay down flat and crawl forward, something snakes can't do, so maybe have special uses for this, like an even smaller ventilation system for him to use. Just make sure it isn't 1 entrance 1 exit only, or else T's can camp it if they spot him going in.
A frog point that is only SOMEWHAT defendable. Basically don't put it in a small room with only one exit, because then it can just be camped and make snakes life hell. It needs multiple ways in and out.
We don't want large open areas! How can snake sneak through those if the terrorists can just stare out there and look for any movement?
Make it DARK! It's kinda hard for snake to sneak about on something super bright
Interactive environment! One idea I like is that since the map will be dark, the map can have lights or spotlights or other things lighting up parts of the map, but if snake can find their fuse boxes he can disable them at the cost of giving away his location when he does this.
EVENTUALLY we'll need the 'shortcut path'. You can leave this out for now, or leave room for it, or put it in without the covering wall, but eventually this needs to be a path that can take snake very close to the map safely, at the cost of giving away his location when he blows up the wall covering the shortcut path. This path needs to be totally sealed off in one end, and have an exit that the terrorist can't get into. Basically if snake never blows open the entrance path, nobody will ever set foot in here. Think like, an exit that's high up on a tall room, so snake has to jump out of it, and the terrorists can't reach it. Or maybe some sort of sewer system that snake can get into if he blows up a cracked floor.
And you're also gonna need some PATIENCE. We're gonna be testing your map in our beta, and be giving lots of feedback about whats working and what isn't, so expect the map to be changed around potentially a lot as we figure out whats best for it from our testing sessions. The final release isn't for awhile so feel free to take your time with it

SOMETHING TO NOTE ABOUT SVT: The terrorists move at half speed and can't dive. Snake however moves at full speed and can dive, allowing him to reach further distances. Maybe make use of this?

BUT HEY you're probably wondering WHATS IN IT FOR ME/I WANT TO HELP TEST IT, so I tell you what: you start making a map for us, it looks good, then we'll give you beta access for the duration of the beta so you can test your map out alongside the rest of us, as well as all the other game modes (basically don't expect to get the beta if you just make a full bright room for us).

Anyone can make a map for us no matter your experience, because it won't be until the final release time (awhile from now) rolls around that we'll be picking out the great ones to include in it. This beta will be going on for a long time, so there's plenty of time to test it (and for you to enjoy the beta if you decide to help us out)

And btw this game mode is heavily influenced by metal gear solid (if you couldn't tell) so if you need some inspiration for your map, perhaps look to the MGS games.


SO YEAH, use this thread to apply, show of your maps, get feedback, ask questions, do whatever. And we'll try to help you out however we can ok cool thanks.

AND DONT'T FORGET: Since we can't really tell how well a map is working until we test it out, don't worry too much about detailing and making it look pretty. It'll likely need to be messed around with a bit and I imagine that'd get annoying having to re-do shit like that.

~FAQ~

HOW BIG SHOULD THE MAP BE???

We're really like maps that can support 32 players, but we won't stop you if you want to do a 16 player map instead.

THEME?

Whatever you want. We want variety to our maps.

TurtleeyFP posted:

what engine version are you using sirs

SDK base 2007

geogzm posted:

what entity spawns snake and which entity spawns everybody else/frog

Make entities with these names:
jb_spawn_svt_terrorist = terrorist spawn, make 29 of these
jb_spawn_svt_snake = snake spawn, make three of these
jb_obj_frog is the frog. if it doesn't exist on the map, it falls back to putting the frog at a random terrorist spawn

Pyth posted:

Can terrorists crouch / crawl through Snake-specific vents, holes, etc.?

Terrorists can crouch and move forward yes. Snake will now be able to crawl while laying prone in our next version, though, and terrorists can't do that. It's not in the current gold beta yet, but you can roll sideways while prone to see how high off the ground snake will be when forward crawling. Maybe have a special set of vents for this specific type of crawling? But don't give it 1 entrance 1 exit, otherwise if a T spots him going in there they can corner him. Maybe give it 4 exits or something

Should the map name have a certain prefix, such as jb_svt_[name] ?

Yeah sure

Does the map reload with each round, i.e. do breakable props reset with each round?

Yes

Are there any feelings towards vertical-based maps over horizontal ones?

don't care as long as its fun fun FUN

HELPFUL TIPS

Zanarias posted:

Information that may help people:

Snake specific Stuff:
-Snake can prone under things assuming there are 24 units of space or more (Pyth was right).
-Snake can dive slightly over 544 unit gaps on the same plane with proper dive timing.
---Gaps should probably be somewhere around 450 units for playability reasons.
-Snake can vault over objects up to 80 units at least with proper jump/dive timing.
-Snake can crouch jump (without dive) across gaps at least 224 units.
---Make it less than this if you don't want people to hate you.

Terrorists:
-Terrorists/Snake both have a maximum jump height of 64 units.
-Terrorists can't even jump 160 units distance at base speed even with crouch jump.

Why this is important:
Opens up a lot of environmental options for snake to maneuver. Ex:
-A room with a fence separating it, with space above it. Snake can vault over the fence to escape terrorists, who can't follow and have to take a longer route.
-A broken catwalk with a gap between remaining paths. Snake can dive across to stop pursuers.

This is really obvious. teh end

Pyth posted:

After far more command-guessing than I'll ever admit, and help from postal, I have a pretty good estimate on Snake's laying height.




Eh, those lines look a bit odd. My best guess is 23 or 24. Sorry for the blood, getting Snake took a few rounds.

[Dragon]

Jaykin Bacon Episode 3 is totally cool! We want your maps! This post definitely not brought to you by postal

[TurtleeyFP]

yay for frogs

[Dav0r]

map for us else i'll piss on your chips

[rilez]

I support the JBEP3 mapping initiative. It is a very sexy mod, and it has nice sounds. The graphics will make you sweat. The gameplay, heart pounding. It is very intense.

I am making maps, but you can also make maps. We can map together. We can share stories about our mapping. Wouldn't it be cool to share mapping stories with a moderator??? Think of all the cool guys and or women I have banned. Wow, what a great afternoon that would be!!!

[TurtleeyFP]

Dav0r posted:

map for us else i'll piss on your chips

don't do that please

[Pyth]

Ask GameDev.

[TurtleeyFP]

what engine version are you using sirs

also "jb_alleys"

[TCB]

this is the first time mods have ever been in the mapping section

[Pyth]

TCB posted:

this is the first time mods have ever been in the mapping section

You mean, besides all of the times we've been banned.

Overv used to be a mod though.

[TCB]

i wanna help

i made dis nigga

[geogzm]

what entity spawns snake and which entity spawns everybody else/frog

[postal]

TCB posted:

this is the first time mods have ever been in the mapping section

I actually stop by this section every now and then. I just don't post.

Edited:

TurtleeyFP posted:

what engine version are you using sirs

SDK base 2007

Edited:

geogzm posted:

what entity spawns snake and which entity spawns everybody else/frog

jb_spawn_svt_terrorist = terrorist spawn, make 29 of these
jb_spawn_svt_snake = snake spawn, make three of these
jb_obj_frog is the frog. if it doesn't exist on the map, it falls back to putting the frog at a random terrorist spawn

[TurtleeyFP]

i henceforth declare my participation

(where do I download those entities, if I even download them at all? do I just create an entity named jb_spawn_svt_terrorist and it will appear when you host it?)

also I made this



I do hope I appear qualified indeed

[postal]

dropbox says im not allowed to view that image

Edited:

And you just make an entity with that name

[geogzm]

vent break sound attracts attention of terrorists, light control is smack bang in the middle of the whole map, door control is fairly easy for both teams to access and the door can be used to shut T's routes off at the cost of making things a little harder for you

does this seem alright (pardon my bad writing)

   looks kinda small to me but eh   

Edited:

also are there any particular themes you'd like to see (canals, complex, forest, shit like that)

[mopman999]

So when making something revealing such as turning off the lights, do you mean like an alarm sounds?

[postal]

Yeah I forgot to mention but we'd really like maps that can support 32 players. I mean if you want to make a smaller map for like 16 players go for it, but personally my preference is for the 32 player matches.

Edited:

mopman999 posted:

So when making something revealing such as turning off the lights, do you mean like an alarm sounds?

I mean that if you shut off the lights, the terrorists will know where you are since the fusebox for those lights is in one spot. That's just my idea though, you can do other ways to interact with that map as well.

Edited:

geogzm posted:

does this seem alright (pardon my bad writing)

   looks kinda small to me but eh   

It looks interesting yeah but like I said you can't really say how well an SVT map will work until we get to testing it. So my recommendation I guess would be to hold off on really detailing the map until we get a better idea of how the end result should be

also are there any particular themes you'd like to see (canals, complex, forest, shit like that)

All of the above. We'd like some variety to the SVT maps. It's up to you guys.

[geogzm]

postal posted:

Yeah I forgot to mention but we'd really like maps that can support 32 players. I mean if you want to make a smaller map for like 16 players go for it, but personally my preference is for the 32 player matches.

Edited:



I mean that if you shut off the lights, the terrorists will know where you are since the fusebox for those lights is in one spot. That's just my idea though, you can do other ways to interact with that map as well.

Edited:

It looks interesting yeah but like I said you can't really say how well an SVT map will work until we get to testing it. So my recommendation I guess would be to hold off on really detailing the map until we get a better idea of how the end result should be





All of the above. We'd like some variety to the SVT maps. It's up to you guys.

I remember SVT from JBS and holy fuck it was fun. I'll just make a rough devtexture map for now.

[Pyth]

Actually, I think I'll give this a shot as well.



My only real past work, haven't mapped in a while.

[Mr Anonymous]

I am up for helping with this. I'll participate. Will start work immediately.

[geogzm]

What game content can we use? Like, Ep2? Css?

[postal]

Also keep in mind I'm thinking about doing a MODELING INITIATIVE thread as well in the modeling forum, so we can get some custom props and shit for your maps (and maybe new guns obviously). If enough of you think we need it then I'll do it. I think the maps would look better with more custom shit anyways, but obviously this would be something we do last since the maps are gonna be getting changed about during testing. Just let me know.

Edited:

geogzm posted:

What game content can we use? Like, Ep2? Css?

Half-life 2 deathmatch. We're not really sure if we want to keep CSS as a requirement so just stick with HL2DM.

[geogzm]

postal posted:

Also keep in mind I'm thinking about doing a MODELING INITIATIVE thread as well in the modeling forum, so we can get some custom props and shit for your maps (and maybe new guns obviously). If enough of you think we need it then I'll do it. I think the maps would look better with more custom shit anyways, but obviously this would be something we do last since the maps are gonna be getting changed about during testing. Just let me know.

Edited:



Half-life 2 deathmatch. We're not really sure if we want to keep CSS as a requirement so just stick with HL2DM.

Can EP2 content be used?

[Antec]

Ill give it a shot as well.

[Pyth]

I assume custom textures aren't an issue at all, so long as we include them with the map.

[postal]

geogzm posted:

Can EP2 content be used?

Nope, sorry. The less we require people to own to play our mod the better.

Pyth posted:

I assume custom textures aren't an issue at all, so long as we include them with the map.

I'd encourage custom textures if anything.

[Antec]

I only have HL2:Deathmatch under Source Engine 2006?


Though you said that it was SDK Base 2007 you guys use.. is that alright?

Edit:

Can I use source 2009 since it already has all my custom content and shit on it?

[postal]

Best answer I could get is "learn to set up a new game configuration under sdk 2007" but using 2009 is better than using 2006.

[geogzm]

I'm just using 2009 because I'm not using anything that 2007 doesn't cover.

[TurtleeyFP]

I was already using 2009. I had assumed that HL2 maps could be loaded into HL2DM...

[Antec]

postal posted:

Best answer I could get is "learn to set up a new game configuration under sdk 2007" but using 2009 is better than using 2006.

Thank's for getting a reply, but if it means that I need to set up another configuration then sorry but no thanks

Good luck though!

[geogzm]

slow but steady

[Timenova]

Perhaps it could be feasible for an elevator to be stopped from a maintenance room above the shaft. They also have those little alarm buttons among the controls inside, so a trapped person can alert his team mates with it.

Just putting that idea out for anyone in need of one.

[postal]

Antec posted:

Thank's for getting a reply, but if it means that I need to set up another configuration then sorry but no thanks

Good luck though!

From what I'm reading it sounds to me like 2009 could still work but alright

[geogzm]

Most people do have episode 2, but I'm gonna guess you've already scripted a ton of stuff for 07 and porting to 09 would be difficult and seclude players

crashes whilst working on this counter: 1

Edited:

Here's an idea that I'm using but a few of you might enjoy: Getting the drop on guards by having snake enter a vent and drop in from above as an alternate route. Works for long corridors!

Edited:



those vents look a little irritating but we'll see

[Pyth]

Are the boxes the same height/size as the player when crouched? i.e.

[geogzm]

Pyth posted:

Are the boxes the same height/size as the player when crouched? i.e.

They're just the right size for a vent. The vents aren't actually finished of course

Also, going to add some diversions, cover and such for snake to sneak around.

[Doom]

Great, now I won't get any sleep.

I'm up for it though!

[Pyth]

geogzm posted:

They're just the right size for a vent. The vents aren't actually finished of course

Also, going to add some diversions, cover and such for snake to sneak around.

Vents should be like 40x40 or 45x45 imo. Or, if you're one of those 2² nuts, 48.