1. Post #2361
    SoaringScout's Avatar
    February 2010
    6,739 Posts
    Yet again, you people keep getting stuck on the word "hatred."

    There is more to hatred than an overt, vocal disdain. Hatred can be marginalization. Hatred can be saying "It's okay to treat women like objects, what can they do about it?" Hatred is saying "This is not for women."

    Hatred is not so simple as saying "because I think girls are pretty therefore I don't hate them." Derision. Disrespect. Dismissal. All of these things are acts born out of their own kinds of hatred.
    That's not hatred, though. That's just prejudice, stereotyping, generalizing, etc. Hatred is intense dislike, animosity, or hostility.
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  2. Post #2362
    gay mexican
    Lankist's Avatar
    July 2006
    14,576 Posts
    Ignoring a group is not hate.
    Yes it is.

    Just as you can say both "women shouldn't be allowed to vote" and "women are beautiful" in the same breath, so is that hatred.

    Edited:

    That's not hatred, though. That's just prejudice, stereotyping, generalizing, etc.
    All three of those things are components of hatred. They are all hateful acts.

    Yet again: You are judged by your behavior, not your innermost thoughts.

    If you behave in a hateful way, you are hateful, no matter what your psyche is really like. Until you can start reading minds, the world will continue to work this way.

    Stop arguing semantics.
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  3. Post #2363
    Gold Member
    gudman's Avatar
    July 2005
    4,490 Posts
    You're hitting someone and I call the cops.

    Now, if you say "Don't you talk back to me, bitch," I'm going to get my gat.
    That's just retarded.
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  4. Post #2364
    gay mexican
    Lankist's Avatar
    July 2006
    14,576 Posts
    That's just retarded.
    Calling the police in response to witnessing a violent altercation is retarded?

    Man, I know Russia is a hell hole, but you do have police, right?
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  5. Post #2365
    hey
    Ownederd's Avatar
    August 2006
    5,472 Posts
    That's just retarded.
    let's not turn this into a argument about self-defense or protection of others against needless physical assault

    nevermind:

    i shouldn't really say what others should talk about
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  6. Post #2366
    Clops with bisousbisous daily <3
    Mr. Smartass's Avatar
    December 2010
    9,188 Posts
    Yes it is.

    Just as you can say both "women shouldn't be allowed to vote" and "women are beautiful" in the same breath, so is that hatred.
    Holy FUCK. You are legitimately amazing me. You completely ignored my points which invalidate your argument. And I'm talking about modern lynchings.

    Edited:

    Stop evading questions
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  7. Post #2367
    Gold Member
    gudman's Avatar
    July 2005
    4,490 Posts
    Calling the police in response to witnessing a violent altercation is retarded?

    Man, I know Russia is a hell hole, but you do have police, right?
    Not answering a simple question about your perception is retarded.
    Also, nice try at insult there.


    let's not turn this into a argument about self-defense or protection of others against needless physical assault
    The idea was that if I hit a woman, just this one, particular - I'm bastard, but not sexist. If I hit them on regular basis, because they're women (even if I justify that) - yeah, I'm sexist, that's right.
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  8. Post #2368
    gay mexican
    Lankist's Avatar
    July 2006
    14,576 Posts
    You completely ignored my points which invalidate your argument.
    lol you mean the ones where you argued semantics based upon strict dictionary definitions or the ones where you denied the dictionary definitions when it became inconvenient for your argument.

    Edited:

    Not answering a simple question about your perception is retarded.
    Also, nice try at insult there.
    My perception is that a violent altercation is occurring and that law enforcement should be called.

    What exactly are you expecting me to say? That I'm okay with you assaulting another human being in any context whatsoever? Fucking no. Even if it's 'self defense' I'm calling the police.

    Violence is violence. I'm not okay with you hurting people, ever, you weird sadist.
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  9. Post #2369
    Gold Member
    gudman's Avatar
    July 2005
    4,490 Posts

    What exactly are you expecting me to say? That I'm okay with you assaulting another human being in any context whatsoever? Fucking no. Even if it's 'self defense' I'm calling the police.
    I was going to say that you assume too much (as in pull stuff out of your bottom hole), but I already said that. Twice or more, and I wasn't the only one.
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  10. Post #2370
    gay mexican
    Lankist's Avatar
    July 2006
    14,576 Posts
    The idea was that if I hit a woman, just this one, particular - I'm bastard, but not sexist. If I hit them on regular basis, because they're women (even if I justify that) - yeah, I'm sexist, that's right.
    yeah that's not how domestic abuse cases work.

    Vigilance is absolutely necessary. The first suspicion of domestic abuse warrants investigation, considering it often happens away from prying eyes with no recourse or ways to call for help for the abused parties.

    You don't just get to hit a woman and then say "I only hit her once."
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  11. Post #2371
    hey
    Ownederd's Avatar
    August 2006
    5,472 Posts
    Holy FUCK. You are legitimately amazing me. You completely ignored my points which invalidate your argument. And I'm talking about modern lynchings.

    Edited:

    Stop evading questions
    stop riding on the rationale that lankist is ignoring your questions because they're "too great" for him and question the way you're addressing him and how you're addressing this thread, dude
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  12. Post #2372
    gay mexican
    Lankist's Avatar
    July 2006
    14,576 Posts
    I was going to say that you assume too much (as in pull stuff out of your bottom hole), but I already said that. Twice or more, and I wasn't the only one.
    Uhh acting upon the first suspicions in cases of suspected domestic abuse is incredibly vital to saving the lives of the victims.

    Domestic abuse happens within the public eye so incredibly rarely that the moment you catch a glimpse of it, you make your assumptions for the sake of the victim.

    It's called hedging your bets. If you assume domestic abuse and you're wrong, no charges get filed. If you assume domestic abuse and you're right, a life is saved.

    If you do not assume domestic abuse and you're wrong, someone could die.


    The same goes for cases of crimes against children. The moment a kid says "he touched me," you give them the benefit of the doubt because it's the safest course of fucking action. If you don't and they're telling the truth, they go back to being abused and/or killed.

    Edited:

    Also FYI, the abused party is the one who has to press charges. This means if you accuse a man of domestic abuse, the victim is the one who needs to file charges against him and provide evidence. Usually it takes the form of hospital records, recorded proof of injuries, testimony of other family members, character witnesses, etc.
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  13. Post #2373
    SoaringScout's Avatar
    February 2010
    6,739 Posts
    All three of those things are components of hatred. They are all hateful acts.
    And can you explain how they are components of hatred? Can you cite something that explains how they are components of hatred? One could argue that prejudice is out of hate, but it's not black and white and you can't just determine it's out of hatred or it's not. Some people could be prejudiced because they weren't taught any better. But, like you said, you can't read peoples mind. So you can't instantly jump to the conclusion that they're prejudice out of hate or some other reason.

    Sorry if I'm wording that poorly or making no sense. My mind is hopping around to different points and it's late at night so I'm tired and too lazy to proofread too much.
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  14. Post #2374
    Gold Member
    gudman's Avatar
    July 2005
    4,490 Posts
    Uhh acting upon the first suspicions in cases of suspected domestic abuse is incredibly vital to saving the lives of the victims.

    Domestic abuse happens within the public eye so incredibly rarely that the moment you catch a glimpse of it, you make your assumptions for the sake of the victim.

    It's called hedging your bets. If you assume domestic abuse and you're wrong, no charges get filed. If you assume domestic abuse and you're right, a life is saved.

    If you do not assume domestic abuse and you're wrong, someone could die.


    The same goes for cases of crimes against children. The moment a kid says "he touched me," you give them the benefit of the doubt because it's the safest course of fucking action. If you don't and they're telling the truth, they go back to being abused and/or killed.

    Edited:

    Also FYI, the abused party is the one who has to press charges.
    What the fuck are you talking about? Are you okay?

    Alright, alright, I will not try to give anymore examples, alright? Just forget that domestic abuse stuff, that wasn't even close to the point, by a mile.
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  15. Post #2375
    gay mexican
    Lankist's Avatar
    July 2006
    14,576 Posts
    And can you explain how they are components of hatred? Can you cite something that explains how they are components of hatred? One could argue that prejudice is out of hate, but it's not black and white and you can't just determine it's out of hatred or it's not. Some people could be prejudiced because they weren't taught any better. But, like you said, you can't read peoples mind. So you can't instantly jump to the conclusion that they're prejudice out of hate or some other reason.

    Sorry if I'm wording that poorly or making no sense. My mind is hopping around to different points and it's late at night so I'm tired and too lazy to proofread too much.
    Are you saying that prejudice and stereotyping are neither hateful nor racist/misogynistic/homophobic (depending upon whom the prejudice is against)?

    Edited:

    What the fuck are you talking about? Are you okay?

    Alright, alright, I will not try to give anymore examples, alright? Just forget that domestic abuse stuff, that wasn't even close to the point, by a mile.
    What you were trying to get at was more of this self-pity "women get the benefit of the doubt" bullshit you and your buddies have been getting at for days.

    The only reason it's not "close to the point" is because I didn't give you the answer that would have been convenient to your argument.
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  16. Post #2376
    SoaringScout's Avatar
    February 2010
    6,739 Posts
    Are you saying that prejudice and stereotyping are neither hateful nor racist/misogynistic/homophobic (depending upon whom the prejudice is against)?
    No, I'm asking if you can prove they are or have something that proves they are.

    And I'm using your logic against you. You're saying that we can't read minds, so we can't assume the meaning behind actions, yet you are assuming prejudice and stereotyping are instantly hateful even though nothing claims they are always 100% of the time out of hatred or hateful. How can you jump to the conclusion that it's hateful if you can't read minds? How can you jump to the conclusion that it's not hateful if you can't read minds? How can you jump to any conclusions about actions if you can't read minds?
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  17. Post #2377
    Gold Member
    gudman's Avatar
    July 2005
    4,490 Posts
    What you were trying to get at was more of this self-pity "women get the benefit of the doubt" bullshit you and your buddies have been getting at for days.
    No I wasn't, I was asking if me hitting (or just saying "bitch") one single woman would make me instantly sexist. That was the question about evidences of sexism, not about charges with abusive behavior or domestic violence.


    The only reason it's not "close to the point" is because I didn't give you the answer that would have been convenient to your argument.
    You are fucking paranoid, you know that? You're the one twisting the words around, not me.
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  18. Post #2378
    hey
    Ownederd's Avatar
    August 2006
    5,472 Posts
    No, I'm asking if you can prove they are or have something that proves they are.

    And I'm using your logic against you. You're saying that we can't read minds, so we can't assume things, yet you are assuming prejudice and stereotyping are instantly hateful even though nothing claims they are always 100% of the time out of hatred or hateful. How can you jump to the conclusion that it's hateful if you can't read minds? How can you jump to the conclusion that it's not hateful if you can't read minds? How can you jump to any conclusions about actions if you can't read minds?
    If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

    If a person makes any exception to any sort of rule, then that undermines their stance on that rule.
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  19. Post #2379
    SoaringScout's Avatar
    February 2010
    6,739 Posts
    If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
    You can argue that about prejudice out of lack of knowledge or proper teaching. Why would it instantly be hateful?
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  20. Post #2380
    gay mexican
    Lankist's Avatar
    July 2006
    14,576 Posts
    No, I'm asking if you can prove they are or have something that proves they are.
    Proof for fucking semantics?

    Pal, you're the one arguing a strict fucking definition of the word "hatred," when I've made it very clear that hatred can take more forms than the overt hatred you seem to be referring to.

    You admit that subtle prejudice is hateful.

    I'm sure you agree that paying a woman less for doing the same job as a man would qualify as both hateful and misogynistic.

    I'm sure you would agree that government-sanctioned, legal lynchings were hateful and racist despite the rationalizations made in the kangaroo court and the firm denials of racism.

    I'm sure you would agree that vaudeville was racist.

    I'm sure you would agree that wife-beating is hateful (even if the wife-beater expresses love for his wife, which most of them do. "I love her too much" is a defense you hear very often.)


    Hatred is not so simple as to put it in a box and say "this is hatred." Hatred can be overt. It can be subtle.

    Hatred can be either conscious or unconscious.

    Hatred can be instinctual or it can be cerebral.

    Hatred can look a hell of a lot like love.


    The only things we have to judge hatred upon are actions and words. If the actions and the words constitute hatred, it is hatred, regardless of its motivations.

    Edited:

    You can argue that about prejudice out of lack of knowledge or proper teaching. Why would it instantly be hateful?
    Hateful acts constitute hatred, even if the motivations are not intrinsically hateful.
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  21. Post #2381
    SoaringScout's Avatar
    February 2010
    6,739 Posts
    Hateful acts constitute hatred, even if the motivations are not intrinsically hateful.
    Prejudice is a hateful act if it's out of hatred.
    Prejudice is not a hateful act if it's not out of hatred.

    Can you read minds? No. Therefore you can not assume the former or the latter.

    Prejudice is a preconceived opinion/judgement. You can't argue that it's hateful or not unless you know the true motives of the individual displaying prejudice.
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  22. Post #2382
    gay mexican
    Lankist's Avatar
    July 2006
    14,576 Posts
    Never does a hateful person consider themselves truly hateful.

    They always feel justified.

    That doesn't make them any less hateful.

    Edited:

    Therefore you can not assume the former or the latter.
    Yes you can. Based upon actions and words. "If it walks like a duck-..."

    If that kind of bullshit were how the world worked, we would have no laws, no courts, no discourse or conversation.

    Nobody gives a fuck about your innermost thoughts, only how you behave. If you behave in such a way which is hateful, you are hateful.

    Now, you know exactly what I mean by "hatred." Stop pretending you can't make inferences about the world.
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  23. Post #2383
    Clops with bisousbisous daily <3
    Mr. Smartass's Avatar
    December 2010
    9,188 Posts
    -snop-
    Dumb post made at 3 in the morning
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  24. Post #2384
    gay mexican
    Lankist's Avatar
    July 2006
    14,576 Posts
    So if you punch out a woman that's attacking you with a knife, you're at fault
    Fucking brilliant
    Please quote the part where he said she had a knife.

    If you're going to sit here fucking arguing I shouldn't make assumptions, maybe you should stop too!.
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  25. Post #2385
    Clops with bisousbisous daily <3
    Mr. Smartass's Avatar
    December 2010
    9,188 Posts
    Please quote the part where he said she had a knife.
    I never said that he did, but you said that even if it's self defense you're still calling the cops, and that if you ever hurt anyone ever you're a sadist.
    Now answer my questions and stop FUCKING avoiding them.
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  26. Post #2386
    gay mexican
    Lankist's Avatar
    July 2006
    14,576 Posts
    I never said that he did
    Oh so you were just pulling shit out of your ass and calling it an argument.

    Par for the course, pal.

    Edited:

    you said that even if it's self defense you're still calling the cops, and that if you ever hurt anyone ever you're a sadist..
    Uhh, yeah, because that's sort of the law.

    The cops show up even in cases of self defense. You don't just beat a motherfucker down in self defense and walk away. That's a felony. Fleeing a crime scene. Cops get called in every case of violence.

    Because all violence is bad.

    Edited:

    Stop arguing self defense when you clearly haven't defended yourself from so much as a fucking bumble bee in your entire life.
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  27. Post #2387
    Gold Member
    gudman's Avatar
    July 2005
    4,490 Posts
    I never said that he did, but you said that even if it's self defense you're still calling the cops, and that if you ever hurt anyone ever you're a sadist.
    Nay, he's right in that case. He didn't answer the actual question, but he's right, calling the cops to sort things out is the right thing to do. Let them find out what was self-defence and what wasn't.
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  28. Post #2388
    Clops with bisousbisous daily <3
    Mr. Smartass's Avatar
    December 2010
    9,188 Posts
    Oh so you were just pulling shit out of your ass and calling it an argument.

    Par for the course, pal.

    Edited:



    Uhh, yeah, because that's sort of the law.

    The cops show up even in cases of self defense. You don't just beat a motherfucker down in self defense and walk away. That's a felony. Fleeing a crime scene. Cops get called in every case of violence.

    Because all violence is bad.

    Edited:

    Stop arguing self defense when you clearly haven't defended yourself from so much as a fucking bumble bee in your entire life.
    Bad reading on the bit about the cop. However, you claim that the person is a sadist regardless of reason. And you still didn't answer my main question about how not including/pandering to a certain group is hate.
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  29. Post #2389
    Lord_Ragnarok's Avatar
    July 2009
    2,096 Posts
    I just realized that this thread would probably be very easy to troll.

    (User was banned for this post ("This post doesn't contribute to the discussion" - Starpluck))
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  30. Post #2390
    Gold Member
    Recurracy's Avatar
    August 2009
    11,512 Posts
    I like how this got 60 pages. One thing's for sure, she sure stirred the pot.
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  31. Post #2391
    Gold Member
    gullegull's Avatar
    August 2005
    1,455 Posts
    All the arguments


    (User was banned for this post ("Shitpost" - Starpluck))
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  32. Post #2392
    iFail's Avatar
    March 2009
    2,445 Posts
    I like how this got 60 pages. One thing's for sure, she sure stirred the pot.
    It's not her fault that we have 60 pages, it's more that facepunch is willing to waste forever arguing over the most trivial shit.
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  33. Post #2393
    Gold Member
    Sir Whoopsalot's Avatar
    August 2010
    22,322 Posts
    It's not her fault that we have 60 pages, it's more that facepunch is willing to waste forever arguing over the most trivial shit.
    Well, it's mostly a handful of people.
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  34. Post #2394
    Gold Member
    Lonestriper's Avatar
    September 2008
    5,544 Posts
    Threads like this always end up the same way, I have not seen one which hasn't been a repetitive, semantic filled shitpile of stupidity and genuinely terrible opinions which gets resurrected every. single. day. by idiots who haven't bothered to read any of the discourse which has happened thus far.

    To conclude, for the 4th fucking time, lock this piece of shit thread

    (User was banned for this post ("Why reply?" - Starpluck))
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  35. Post #2395
    gay mexican
    Lankist's Avatar
    July 2006
    14,576 Posts
    To conclude, for the 4th fucking time, lock this piece of shit thread
    Stop reading threads you don't like. What are you, a masochist?
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  36. Post #2396
    Gold Member
    ChestyMcGee's Avatar
    August 2008
    25,182 Posts
    remember when the thread was about video games lmao

    Edited:

    ps lankist is right
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  37. Post #2397
    Gold Member
    Recurracy's Avatar
    August 2009
    11,512 Posts
    masochists get pleasure over hurting themselves, he gets annoyed by this thread so no, not a masochist
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  38. Post #2398
    Gold Member
    Simski's Avatar
    February 2007
    13,170 Posts
    Man, I know Russia is a hell hole, but you do have police, right?
    Oh... so now it's perfectly alright and proper to stereotype someone for their nationality and call their country a hellhole, but I'm a sexist asshole because I said someone was acting like a soccermom for making exaggerated claims about video games?
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  39. Post #2399
    Gold Member
    ChestyMcGee's Avatar
    August 2008
    25,182 Posts
    Oh... so now it's perfectly alright and proper to stereotype someone for their nationality and call their country a hellhole, but I'm a sexist asshole because I said someone was acting like a soccermom for making exaggerated claims about video games?
    you know i'm not surprised by a hypocritical slip of character in his responses when he has been pushed and pushed and pushed by awful attention to unnecessary semantics and pseudo-intelligent posts about debate fallacies, when the original topic of the thread was lost about 50 pages ago
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  40. Post #2400
    gay mexican
    Lankist's Avatar
    July 2006
    14,576 Posts
    Oh... so now it's perfectly alright and proper to stereotype someone for their nationality and call their country a hellhole, but I'm a sexist asshole because I said someone was acting like a soccermom for making exaggerated claims about video games?
    when someone is arguing for their right to hit women?

    yes.

    Edited:

    i give no shits about generalizing that kind of person
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