1. Post #121
    Ask Me About my Castlevania fetish.
    Derpmonster's Avatar
    February 2012
    514 Posts
    I'm saying that you shouldn't make rape seem worse than everything else in the world because, yes it's god awful, but so is having to kill people, watching your friends die, and the lot.
    Rape is not gender specific.
    This is what people seem to forget. They generalize rape as it only happening to females. (Not all but most) People also think so casually of murder in comparison on rape.
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  2. Post #122
    I am a pasty white nerd who gets offended for black people because I have nothing better to do
    TheHydra's Avatar
    July 2006
    5,826 Posts
    Rape is not gender specific. Men can be raped too. Don't pull that card and say that you know more about the effects or rape when male rape victims exist as well. I'm also not saying that rape isn't bad, I'm saying that watching someone die or having to kill a man is just as bad. I know you know women who say that murder would be mercy, but they've never been raped. I have a friend who struggled with PTSD after he returned from his tours and he nearly killed himself. He tried hanging himself but the rope snapped. I know firsthand the damage that occurs to victims of war, and while I'm not saying rape is a lesser pain, I'm saying that you shouldn't make rape seem worse than everything else in the world because, yes it's god awful, but so is having to kill people, watching your friends die, and the lot.
    subtext dude, holy shit
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  3. Post #123
    Gold Member

    June 2009
    8,467 Posts
    Am I the only person who does not give a shit? I mean come on, I don't like rape obviously but it's just a fucking video game. Rarely will a game ever make me gasp due to an unexpectedly violent gesture, you're playing a video game. You should be ready for anything.
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  4. Post #124
    Ask Me About my Castlevania fetish.
    Derpmonster's Avatar
    February 2012
    514 Posts
    Am I the only person who does not give a shit? I mean come on, I don't like rape obviously but it's just a fucking video game. Rarely will a game ever make me gasp due to an unexpectedly violent gesture, you're playing a video game. You should be ready for anything.
    As I have been saying: People are blowing this out of proportion.
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  5. Post #125
    Loriborn's Avatar
    October 2009
    6,230 Posts
    subtext dude, holy shit
    She doesn't imply she know's rape victims, she said that she talked to friends that would prefer to die than be raped. "Yeah, I'd rather be killed than be raped." Doesn't mean she knows a rape victim. Even if she does, my point still stands, a PTSD victim and a rape victim are two peas in the same pod and if you're going to say that rape in games is bad because of rape victims, war is bad in games because of war victims.
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  6. Post #126
    I am a pasty white nerd who gets offended for black people because I have nothing better to do
    TheHydra's Avatar
    July 2006
    5,826 Posts
    She doesn't imply she know's rape victims, she said that she talked to friends that would prefer to die than be raped. "Yeah, I'd rather be killed than be raped." Doesn't mean she knows a rape victim. Even if she does, my point still stands, a PTSD victim and a rape victim are two peas in the same pod and if you're going to say that rape in games is bad because of rape victims, war is bad in games because of war victims.
    no i'm p. sure she's implying that

  7. Post #127
    Awesome Member
    Dennab
    January 2006
    40,352 Posts
    Am I the only person who does not give a shit?
    well sure it's not a big deal but it's still kind of silly. i mean considering how quick developer comments spread across the internet they seem to be pretty keen on being "that one game that had attempted rape".

    well at least she has pants now. that's a big step!
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  8. Post #128
    Ask Me About my Castlevania fetish.
    Derpmonster's Avatar
    February 2012
    514 Posts
    well at least she has pants now. that's a big step!
    This doesn't even make any sense.

  9. Post #129

    February 2010
    3,109 Posts
    Why are you guys arguing about a non-existent rape scene ?
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  10. Post #130
    Loriborn's Avatar
    October 2009
    6,230 Posts
    no i'm p. sure she's implying that
    Regardless, how does that make her point any more relevant? I'm not arguing that rape isn't bad. Yes, I know that rape victims enter depression, sometimes commit suicide, trust issues, and the lot, but what I'm saying is that people who have survived other tragedies are going to be suicidal, be paranoid, have trust issues, and sometimes even mental breakdowns.
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  11. Post #131
    I am a pasty white nerd who gets offended for black people because I have nothing better to do
    TheHydra's Avatar
    July 2006
    5,826 Posts
    Why are you guys arguing about a non-existent rape scene ?
    because the exec. producer said it's a rape scene
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  12. Post #132
    Bentham's Avatar
    January 2012
    1,782 Posts
    well sure it's not a big deal but it's still kind of silly. i mean considering how quick developer comments spread across the internet they seem to be pretty keen on being "that one game that had attempted rape".

    well at least she has pants now. that's a big step!
    But even from what you're saying it's not the developers themselves blowing this up, it's the viewers and internet users. I don't see articles everywhere quoting devs doing all these interviews showing off their shiny rape scene. It's not even a real rape scene, from the video, it looks like a dude tries to rub her side and she kicks him in the dick.

    It's not a big deal, it's not going to revolutionize storytelling in video games, and a year after release nobody is going to remember or care.

  13. Post #133
    Awesome Member
    Dennab
    January 2006
    40,352 Posts
    This doesn't even make any sense.
    do you know anything about tomb raider?

    the old


    the new


    they got rid of the short shorts and gave her pants.

  14. Post #134
    I am a pasty white nerd who gets offended for black people because I have nothing better to do
    TheHydra's Avatar
    July 2006
    5,826 Posts
    But even from what you're saying it's not the developers themselves blowing this up, it's the viewers and internet users. I don't see articles everywhere quoting devs doing all these interviews showing off their shiny rape scene. It's not even a real rape scene, from the video, it looks like a dude tries to rub her side and she kicks him in the dick.

    It's not a big deal, it's not going to revolutionize storytelling in video games, and a year after release nobody is going to remember or care.
    did you even read the first post
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  15. Post #135
    Bentham's Avatar
    January 2012
    1,782 Posts
    do you know anything about tomb raider?

    the old


    the new


    they got rid of the short shorts and gave her pants.
    Maybe she'll be sliding down a muddy bank and the pant legs will tear off.

    Edited:

    did you even read the first post
    Missed that, my apologies.

  16. Post #136
    Revan564's Avatar
    November 2008
    856 Posts
    there's a difference between graphic and realistic. a murder isn't a horrible thing because blood or guts come out of someone. it's horrible because (well this is based on your personal morality) a conscious being with a strong effect on someone else is removed from the planet and causes great strife to the people that cared about them. that doesn't happen in videogames on any huge basis and it would be silly to say that a scene where someone is graphically killed would illicit the same emotional response as an actual murder.
    I'm really confused about what you're trying to argue. What you said about the strong effect of death and murder was shown in that video with the kid and his parents. It's supposed to give you an emotional response but you're apparently not seeing it and instead looking at the blood.
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  17. Post #137
    Awesome Member
    Dennab
    January 2006
    40,352 Posts
    But even from what you're saying it's not the developers themselves blowing this up, it's the viewers and internet users. I don't see articles everywhere quoting devs doing all these interviews showing off their shiny rape scene. It's not even a real rape scene, from the video, it looks like a dude tries to rub her side and she kicks him in the dick.

    It's not a big deal, it's not going to revolutionize storytelling in video games, and a year after release nobody is going to remember or care.
    just because i'm posting about it doesn't mean i think it's a big deal.

    it's just some of the responses (especially the bold direction one) are kind of mind-bogglingly funny and worth putting in some words about.
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  18. Post #138
    I am a pasty white nerd who gets offended for black people because I have nothing better to do
    TheHydra's Avatar
    July 2006
    5,826 Posts
    Regardless, how does that make her point any more relevant? I'm not arguing that rape isn't bad. Yes, I know that rape victims enter depression, sometimes commit suicide, trust issues, and the lot, but what I'm saying is that people who have survived other tragedies are going to be suicidal, be paranoid, have trust issues, and sometimes even mental breakdowns.
    not my place to argue that. i pointed out what i took issue with.

  19. Post #139
    Bentham's Avatar
    January 2012
    1,782 Posts
    just because i'm posting about it doesn't mean i think it's a big deal.

    it's just some of the responses (especially the bold direction one) are kind of mind-bogglingly funny and worth putting in some words about.
    I mean, it's pretty edgy I suppose, but I won't be freaking out until someone makes a game where the guy literally tries to hardcore rape her. This doesn't seem too terribly alarming, and people on both sides of the fence really are overreacting.

  20. Post #140
    Ask Me About my Castlevania fetish.
    Derpmonster's Avatar
    February 2012
    514 Posts
    do you know anything about tomb raider?

    the old


    the new


    they got rid of the short shorts and gave her pants.
    Yes, I have seen her in previous games.My point was why the hell should that matter to you? Bottom line is it is hardly rape.

  21. Post #141
    I am a pasty white nerd who gets offended for black people because I have nothing better to do
    TheHydra's Avatar
    July 2006
    5,826 Posts
    Yes, I have seen her in previous games.My point was why the hell should that matter to you? Bottom line is it is hardly rape.
    you are taking this shit way too seriously
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  22. Post #142
    Gold Member
    Elspin's Avatar
    December 2006
    5,254 Posts
    Guys rape in video games != murder, and using PTSD stories about people in war is not a good way to try and make that illegitimate point. Murder, especially in the sense that it's portrayed in most video games is almost comical - but rape isn't and never will be unless you're pretty sick. The trauma that results from murder is the result of having to end the life of another human being, whereas no matter how good a video game is a murder will never impact you that much because under everything you know that they're not a real person. Rape is horrifying regardless though because it's not just the knowledge of what's been done that's horrifying, but the actual process. A murder can be as simple as pulling a trigger and looking away, or punching someone hard to the neck - rape on the other hand is a deeply traumatic form of torture and there's no way you can make it a tame action. So before you try and act like murder and rape in video games are both in the same bucket because they can both cause trauma in real life, fucking think about it
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  23. Post #143
    Awesome Member
    Dennab
    January 2006
    40,352 Posts
    What you said about the strong effect of death and murder was shown in that video with the kid and his parents.
    even if does give you an emotional response, it's nowhere close to an actual death or murder and there's a huge reason because of that. a realistic death is different from a graphic death, graphic meaning something visually presented.

    you'd experience something different if the game was about you coming to terms with the death itself, since that would be a realistic depiction of death. when you kill people in call of duty you aren't forced or even capable of dealing with that death because even if it is graphic it's completely unrealistic.

    that's why i say there's a false equivalency with murder and rape depicted in a video-game. a videogame about killing is 99% certain not to deal with the themes and emotions surrounding death in a realistic way because it handles it in an unrealistic way, and since it handles it in an unrealistic way there's no possible emotional impact beyond the response to the graphic depiction.

    with rape however it is easy to take the themes and emotions surrounding it and completely handle it in a horrible hamfisted way that makes everyone go YEESH or UGH!.

    not related to this game but then again the golden wasn't addressing the game, he was addressing someone's post.

  24. Post #144
    Bentham's Avatar
    January 2012
    1,782 Posts
    Guys rape in video games != murder, and using PTSD stories about people in war is not a good way to try and make that illegitimate point. Murder, especially in the sense that it's portrayed in most video games is almost comical - but rape isn't and never will be unless you're pretty sick. The trauma that results from murder is the result of having to end the life of another human being, whereas no matter how good a video game is a murder will never impact you that much because under everything you know that they're not a real person. Rape is horrifying regardless though because it's not just the knowledge of what's been done that's horrifying, but the actual process. A murder can be as simple as pulling a trigger and looking away, or punching someone hard to the neck - rape on the other hand is a deeply traumatic form of torture and there's no way you can make it a tame action. So before you try and act like murder and rape in video games are both in the same bucket because they can both cause trauma in real life, fucking think about it
    This seems really self-conflicting. You're arguing that murder in video games isn't severe because we know they aren't real, can't you apply the same stance to rape in games? Not that I'm justifying anything, it just seems really self-defeating to apply that kind of logic. And there's plenty of games where murder is drawn out and detailed.

  25. Post #145
    Awesome Member
    Dennab
    January 2006
    40,352 Posts
    Yes, I have seen her in previous games.My point was why the hell should that matter to you?
    because i thought she looked awesome in short shorts. it's an era of my childhood gone to waste.
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  26. Post #146
    Loriborn's Avatar
    October 2009
    6,230 Posts
    Guys rape in video games != murder, and using PTSD stories about people in war is not a good way to try and make that illegitimate point. Murder, especially in the sense that it's portrayed in most video games is almost comical - but rape isn't and never will be unless you're pretty sick. The trauma that results from murder is the result of having to end the life of another human being, whereas no matter how good a video game is a murder will never impact you that much because under everything you know that they're not a real person. Rape is horrifying regardless though because it's not just the knowledge of what's been done that's horrifying, but the actual process. A murder can be as simple as pulling a trigger and looking away, or punching someone hard to the neck - rape on the other hand is a deeply traumatic form of torture and there's no way you can make it a tame action. So before you try and act like murder and rape in video games are both in the same bucket because they can both cause trauma in real life, fucking think about it
    I fail to see how this is totally alright to put in a game, but slight fondling isn't.

    [url]

    Yeah that's really funny alright!
    Why is that in a game, if you have rape, the player immediately thinks of the process of rape, but with murder, they don't think of the process of murder?

    No, seriously, the only reason you even say that murder is comical is because you've seen it so often in games that you're desensitized. You hardly see rape in games, so of course you're not used to it. That's why games like Manhunt and GTAV don't affect people. Not because the content in them isn't bad, rather, because we've seen all that content millions of times.
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  27. Post #147
    Ask Me About my Castlevania fetish.
    Derpmonster's Avatar
    February 2012
    514 Posts
    because i thought she looked awesome in short shorts. it's an era of my childhood gone to waste.
    Sorry, but I fail to understand what that has to do with your whole argument. I do see your point on why it matters to you though. I just don't understand it.

  28. Post #148
    Gold Member

    March 2005
    3,028 Posts
    I know they're doing that for powerful emotional effect but christ the thought of rape makes me want to puke.
    As opposed to the thought of shooting people in the face with guns?
    You realize how violent most of the games we play are, right? At least here the violence serves some purpose (it actually makes you sick of violence) instead of rewarding you with points.
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  29. Post #149
    Bentham's Avatar
    January 2012
    1,782 Posts
    [url]

    Yeah that's really funny alright!
    Why is that in a game, if you have rape, the player immediately thinks of the process of rape, but with murder, they don't think of the process of murder?

    No, seriously, the only reason you even say that murder is comical is because you've seen it so often in games that you're desensitized. You hardly see rape in games, so of course you're not used to it. That's why games like Manhunt and GTAV don't affect people. Not because the content in them isn't bad, rather, because we've seen all that content millions of times.
    That scene stressed me out so fucking much.
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  30. Post #150
    Awesome Member
    Dennab
    January 2006
    40,352 Posts
    This seems really self-conflicting. You're arguing that murder in video games isn't severe because we know they aren't real, can't you apply the same stance to rape in games?
    no because the emotional information in order to get across a rape with it's proper emotional response is different.

    what makes you feel bad about someone dying is the fact that it's a long-time process dealing with the fact that they are gone.

    a rape however registers emotionally quickly because it's a forcible sexual victimization of a woman or man and therefor the potential for a game to handle it in a way that makes everyone feel like shit is huge, see Custer's Revenge.

  31. Post #151
    Gold Member
    Elspin's Avatar
    December 2006
    5,254 Posts
    This seems really self-conflicting. You're arguing that murder in video games isn't severe because we know they aren't real, can't you apply the same stance to rape in games? Not that I'm justifying anything, it just seems really self-defeating to apply that kind of logic. And there's plenty of games where murder is drawn out and detailed.
    No you can't, and I explained why in my post. To make it simpler - murder is disturbing because of the actual effects of the murder (as is rape), but visually witnessing the act of rape itself is disturbing whether the people are real or not. Murder doesn't even have to even involve violence, it can be as simple as someone dropping dead from drinking poison. To argue that somebody ragdolling after getting a red mark on their chest is in the same category as a woman being forced down and fucked against their will is scary to say the least.

  32. Post #152
    Gold Member
    FunnyBunny's Avatar
    December 2006
    4,768 Posts
    I think we're being very liberal with the term 'rape'. He puts his hand on her waist for christs sake.
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  33. Post #153
    Revan564's Avatar
    November 2008
    856 Posts
    even if does give you an emotional response, it's nowhere close to an actual death or murder and there's a huge reason because of that. a realistic death is different from a graphic death, graphic meaning something visually presented.

    you'd experience something different if the game was about you coming to terms with the death itself, since that would be a realistic depiction of death. when you kill people in call of duty you aren't forced or even capable of dealing with that death because even if it is graphic it's completely unrealistic.

    that's why i say there's a false equivalency with murder and rape depicted in a video-game. a videogame about killing is 99% certain not to deal with the themes and emotions surrounding death in a realistic way because it handles it in an unrealistic way, and since it handles it in an unrealistic way there's no possible emotional impact beyond the response to the graphic depiction.

    with rape however it is easy to take the themes and emotions surrounding it and completely handle it in a horrible hamfisted way that makes everyone go YEESH or UGH!.

    not related to this game but then again the golden wasn't addressing the game, he was addressing someone's post.
    I was just replying to you're post about murder in games being unrealistic. Also, no game should ever be able to impact you emotionally as much as real life would. One is simulated and the other is real.

  34. Post #154
    Awesome Member
    Dennab
    January 2006
    40,352 Posts
    Sorry, but I fail to understand what that has to do with your whole argument.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_seq...terary_device)
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  35. Post #155
    Ask Me About my Castlevania fetish.
    Derpmonster's Avatar
    February 2012
    514 Posts
    That's why games like Manhunt and GTAV don't affect people.
    Manhunt originally affected people. That's because it was older and murder was something fresh (To that extent anyway) . Now (like you said) people are so used to murder in video games it barely phases them.

  36. Post #156
    Gold Member
    FunnyBunny's Avatar
    December 2006
    4,768 Posts
    On an unrelated note I guess 2012 is the year of bows in media. Tomb raider, assassin's creed, crysis3, hunger games, avengers, etc...
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  37. Post #157
    Awesome Member
    Dennab
    January 2006
    40,352 Posts
    Also, no game should ever be able to impact you emotionally as much as real life would. One is simulated and the other is real.
    not true at all and it's that belief that prevents games from establishing a proper emotional connection. when i read of mice and men i really felt like lennie died, and that's because the emotional information that comes across in the book really allow it to happen.

    some ugly dirty nerds also cried when Aries died so no i would say a game could impact you that emotionally.

  38. Post #158
    Gold Member
    Cone's Avatar
    August 2011
    18,901 Posts
    I think we're being very liberal with the term 'rape'. He puts his hand on her waist for christs sake.
    he doesn't even do anything if you fail, he just stabs her and she dies

  39. Post #159
    Bentham's Avatar
    January 2012
    1,782 Posts
    No you can't, and I explained why in my post. To make it simpler - murder is disturbing because of the actual effects of the murder (as is rape), but visually witnessing the act of rape itself is disturbing whether the people are real or not. Murder doesn't even have to even involve violence, it can be as simple as someone dropping dead from drinking poison. To argue that somebody ragdolling after getting a red mark on their chest is in the same category as a woman being forced down and fucked against their will is scary to say the least.
    I'm not arguing for situations like Counter-Strike or whatever where you click a button and the guy flops onto the ground. The video posted above is an example of what I was talking about. Murder that actually creates a situation where you have to think about what you are doing and react to the fact that there's a man crying in front of you because he doesn't want to die, and you have the power to pull the trigger or spare him.

  40. Post #160
    Gold Member
    Elspin's Avatar
    December 2006
    5,254 Posts
    Yeah that's really funny alright!
    Why is that in a game, if you have rape, the player immediately thinks of the process of rape, but with murder, they don't think of the process of murder?

    No, seriously, the only reason you even say that murder is comical is because you've seen it so often in games that you're desensitized. You hardly see rape in games, so of course you're not used to it. That's why games like Manhunt and GTAV don't affect people. Not because the content in them isn't bad, rather, because we've seen all that content millions of times.
    This here's a prime example folks of someone who doesn't understand anything trying to force a moral high ground by taking things out of context! I said in most games, as you were keen to ignore, while completely dodging the point of my post. No, it's not because I've been desensitized, it's because the visual effect of someone impossibly rolling up into a ball after being shot in the foot and then leaping back up in another corner of a town has a slapstick comedy feel to it, not because I'm a cold blooded killer who doesn't care. If you don't understand my point - read my next post again, I made it simpler.
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