1. Post #201
    Gold Member
    Elspin's Avatar
    December 2006
    5,134 Posts
    Santitization is the absolute worst way you can handle violent subject matter. People need to see exactly how disgusting murder is so that they don't vote for warmongering politicians.
    So you're saying that by "sanitizing" murder, half life 2 is encouraging warmongering politicians? I'd like to point out that this is in no a straw man by the way, as that is the exact example I used of a game that portrays every kill as a clean kill? I'm aware there's been dramatic deaths in the half life 2 series, but only one that I can think of off hand and hundreds that were not.

  2. Post #202
    I am a pasty white nerd who gets offended for black people because I have nothing better to do
    TheHydra's Avatar
    July 2006
    5,727 Posts
    I was just glad I didn't waste time getting her ultimate. If I'd gotten her ultimate I'd be heartbroken.
    ha, i didn't even think about that. what a dick move on square's part

  3. Post #203
    Awesome Member
    Dennab
    January 2006
    40,352 Posts
    i don't even know why people cried over that. she was a boring character who you didn't even get to know very well, and her death was as random and pointless as your average family guy cutaway gag.
    FF7 was totally overrated anyway, there were better final fantasies.
    there's really no cool way to say final fantasy, you'll always sound like a knob

  4. Post #204
    NaViGaTr had the right idea:
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  5. Post #205
    I'm different!
    Doctor Zedacon's Avatar
    July 2006
    13,441 Posts
    FF7 was totally overrated anyway, there were better final fantasies.
    there's really no cool way to say final fantasy, you'll always sound like a knob
    Continuing Fantasy?

  6. Post #206
    Gold Member

    March 2005
    3,028 Posts
    So you're saying that by "sanitizing" murder, half life 2 is encouraging warmongering politicians? I'd like to point out that this is in no a straw man by the way, as that is the exact example I used of a game that portrays every kill as a clean kill? I'm aware there's been dramatic deaths in the half life 2 series, but only one that I can think of off hand and hundreds that were not.
    Were we playing the same game?

  7. Post #207
    Gold Member
    Elspin's Avatar
    December 2006
    5,134 Posts
    This is a good point, I see what you're getting at.
    I'm glad, for that at least. If at least one person can understand what I was trying to say (even if they don't agree with it), instead of throwing out straw mans and acting pretentious to defend their views instead of defending them logically... that's an achievement on the internet .
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  8. Post #208
    irukandji's Avatar
    August 2011
    608 Posts
    This is the same thing as the "nuns" attacking Hitman in the latest trailer.

    A great marketing tactic, covered by the story...

    And most people dig it, some won't...

  9. Post #209
    Awesome Member
    Dennab
    January 2006
    40,352 Posts
    instead of throwing out straw mans and acting pretentious to defend their views instead of defending them logically...
    sorry, my fault

  10. Post #210
    I am a pasty white nerd who gets offended for black people because I have nothing better to do
    TheHydra's Avatar
    July 2006
    5,727 Posts
    FF7 was totally overrated anyway, there were better final fantasies.
    there's really no cool way to say final fantasy, you'll always sound like a knob
    "FF" or "FF game(s)" is passable

  11. Post #211
    Gold Member
    BlackRainbow's Avatar
    October 2007
    3,787 Posts
    Getting pissy over nothing. It's a video game, and it's not like it's a major feature of the game. People old enough to be playing this game should be mature enough to be able to deal with stuff like this. Again, it's a fucking video game, not real life.

  12. Post #212
    Gold Member
    Elspin's Avatar
    December 2006
    5,134 Posts
    Were we playing the same game? Because the Half-Life 2 that I know is nothing but tragedy.
    Yeah, like that scene when you meet Alyx is half life 2 - I can see how they were going for a grim and tortuous depiction in this scene of how torn Alyx is to kill a group of metropolice whilst they are attacking Gordon, all too aware that they were once normal people like her


    Wait no, she makes a joke immediately and you walk past their crumpled bodies then go and have a light-hearted meeting with some old friends. Sure, half life's story is dark and it's filled with tragedy, but you can't argue that the violence isn't heavily "sanitized" if you want to call it that.
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  13. Post #213
    Gold Member

    March 2005
    3,028 Posts
    Well I suppose it is, in some regards.

    But, like I said, if they portrayed it the way it should be portrayed, you wouldn't want to play video games. I'm speaking more specifically about games like 'Modern Warfare', etc.

  14. Post #214
    I'm different!
    Doctor Zedacon's Avatar
    July 2006
    13,441 Posts
    Yeah, like that scene when you meet Alyx is half life 2 - I can see how they were going for a grim and tortuous depiction in this scene of how torn Alyx is to kill a group of metropolice whilst they are attacking Gordon, all too aware that they were once normal people like her


    Wait no, she makes a joke immediately and you walk past their crumpled bodies then go and have a light-hearted meeting with some old friends. Sure, half life's story is dark and it's filled with tragedy, but you can't argue that the violence isn't heavily "sanitized" if you want to call it that.
    And virtually every guy I know immediately stared at her ass until they made it to Kleiner's lab.

  15. Post #215
    Gold Member
    Rocko's's Avatar
    February 2011
    11,471 Posts
    A lot of people keep thinking that if you don't react to the QTE, Laura gets raped. Even if you do fail, I doubt they would even show the scene, she's most likely gonna die.

    Hell, in Mafia 2 you are almost raped during Vito's time in prison, why is it so concerning now?

  16. Post #216
    I'm different!
    Doctor Zedacon's Avatar
    July 2006
    13,441 Posts
    A lot of people keep thinking that if you don't react to the QTE, Laura gets raped. Even if you do fail, I doubt they would even show the scene, she's most likely gonna die.

    Hell, in Mafia 2 you are almost raped during Vito's time in prison, why is it so concerning now?
    They already said they don't depict it, if you fail, she just dies.

  17. Post #217
    Gold Member
    Solo Wing's Avatar
    September 2006
    2,571 Posts
    They are pulling a mw2. They just want free publicity for the game.

  18. Post #218
    Gold Member
    Rocko's's Avatar
    February 2011
    11,471 Posts
    They already said they don't depict it, if you fail, she just dies.
    Then why is this blown out of proportion then? The only thing was that he tried to rape her, but in the end he just kills her.

  19. Post #219
    Awesome Member
    Dennab
    January 2006
    40,352 Posts
    Wait no, she makes a joke immediately and you walk past their crumpled bodies then go and have a light-hearted meeting with some old friends. Sure, half life's story is dark and it's filled with tragedy, but you can't argue that the violence isn't heavily "sanitized" if you want to call it that.
    part of that is also because Alyx is a horribly 2 dimensional character that seems to be completely devoid of any emotion in order to appeal to players
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  20. Post #220
    I'm different!
    Doctor Zedacon's Avatar
    July 2006
    13,441 Posts
    They are pulling a mw2. They just want free publicity for the game.
    It doesn't seem like that by any stretch. I think they mentioned it because its a part of her character development and when she makes her first kill.

    Edited:

    part of that is also because Alyx is a horribly 2 dimensional character that seems to be completely devoid of any emotion in order to appeal to players
    The end of Episode 2 wasn't too bad, but it was utterly predictable.

    Edited:

    Then why is this blown out of proportion then? The only thing was that he tried to rape her, but in the end he just kills her.
    Kotaku.

  21. Post #221
    Gold Member
    sp00ks's Avatar
    January 2008
    12,039 Posts
    part of that is also because Alyx is a horribly 2 dimensional character that seems to be completely devoid of any emotion in order to appeal to players
    to be honest, aren't pretty much all characters in pretty much every game like that?

  22. Post #222
    Gold Member
    Elspin's Avatar
    December 2006
    5,134 Posts
    Well I suppose it is, in some regards.

    But, like I said, if they portrayed it the way it should be portrayed, you wouldn't want to play video games. I'm speaking more specifically about games like 'Modern Warfare', etc.
    It's not "sanitizing" violence that makes it wrong, in Half Life it's alright - making the kills clean isn't used to make the killing seem acceptable, we're already alright with it because Gordon is acting in self defense in a grim apocalyptic future. The reason "Modern Warfare" games are such a problem isn't that the killing is sanitized, but rather that the killing is backed by patriotism rather than necessity.

    Either way, if you didn't sanitize the action in Half Life it'd be a disaster - imagine if every time you killed a metrocop they had to go through an overlong death sequence based incredibly realistically on how you harmed them, like they're clutching their leg you shattered with your crowbar that's no wbleeding out and screaming - based on how varied and believable the deaths were it'd either become cheesy bad or too traumatic to play and the rest of the storyline would be lost on you.

  23. Post #223
    Gold Member
    Medevila's Avatar
    December 2008
    4,147 Posts
    The end of Episode 2 wasn't too bad, but it was utterly predictable.
    Honestly I didn't smell anything until Eli had to tell Gordon something, and then was interrupted.

  24. Post #224
    Gold Member
    Elspin's Avatar
    December 2006
    5,134 Posts
    part of that is also because Alyx is a horribly 2 dimensional character that seems to be completely devoid of any emotion in order to appeal to players
    That doesn't really make sense to me, why would being devoid of emotion make her appeal to players? I mean that certainly doesn't appeal to me. Plus, she IS showing emotion - just the wrong one depending on whether you think she should feel sympathy towards the combine killed or not.

  25. Post #225
    Gold Member
    Medevila's Avatar
    December 2008
    4,147 Posts
    That doesn't really make sense to me, why would being devoid of emotion make her appeal to players? I mean that certainly doesn't appeal to me. Plus, she IS showing emotion - just the wrong one depending on whether you think she should feel sympathy towards the combine killed or not.
    Actually, she only knocked them out.
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  26. Post #226
    I'm different!
    Doctor Zedacon's Avatar
    July 2006
    13,441 Posts
    Honestly I didn't smell anything until Eli had to tell Gordon something, and then was interrupted.
    It was all the little hints the GMan had been dropping.

    Edited:

    I actually did feel a bit bad for the Civil Protection in Half-Life 2, because they make it clear very early on that they are literally just humans when you meet Barney. They're just people who, at basically the end of civilization, did what they had to in order to survive. Before Gordon's arrival, there was literally no hope for humanity so they did what was necessary.

    The Combine themselves though, they are lobotomized tools, no free will. I was indifferent in killing them.

  27. Post #227
    Gold Member
    Elspin's Avatar
    December 2006
    5,134 Posts
    Actually, she only knocked them out.
    I know it doesn't make the sound their suits usually do when they're killed, but I have a hard time believing that she "just knocked them out" when they're in a crumpled heap on the ground looking very dead - I'd like to give valve the benefit of a doubt that in a scripted sequence they could at least post the ragdolls like they'd just been knocked out if that's what they were trying to get across .

    I don't think it's unreasonable to say she spared them though and I can definitely see where you're coming from
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  28. Post #228
    Motherfuckers's Avatar
    January 2012
    739 Posts
    RAPE AS DRAMA, We're pulling away from those dirty sexist dudebro shooters now!
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  29. Post #229
    Awesome Member
    Dennab
    January 2006
    40,352 Posts
    That doesn't really make sense to me, why would being devoid of emotion make her appeal to players?
    no-one wants to have sex with a women who's sad because her life's gone to shit, her mother is dead, and at any moment she could die.

    instead she just kind of flirts with you, not even harboring any resentment towards you or Eli for actually starting this whole thing.
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  30. Post #230
    Zet
    Gold Member
    Zet's Avatar
    February 2011
    2,349 Posts
    Oh man, I didn't know attempted rape in a video game could be this sensational. Witcher 2 had rape in it, but there was never any outrage if I recall correctly.

  31. Post #231
    Gold Member
    Medevila's Avatar
    December 2008
    4,147 Posts
    I know it doesn't make the sound their suits usually do when they're killed, but I have a hard time believing that she "just knocked them out" when they're in a crumpled heap on the ground looking very dead - I'd like to give valve the benefit of a doubt that in a scripted sequence they could at least post the ragdolls like they'd just been knocked out if that's what they were trying to get across .

    I don't think it's unreasonable to say she spared them though and I can definitely see where you're coming from
    I'm making the inference from when she says they are "slow to wake, but once they are up you will have a hard time taking them down"
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  32. Post #232
    Gold Member
    squids_eye's Avatar
    July 2006
    5,591 Posts
    I don't see what the big deal is, as long as it isn't done in a really hamfisted way, why shouldn't they be allowed to have rape in games when you see it in movies and tv all the time. As far as I am aware there was no huge controversy over the anal rape scene in The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, why shouldn't a game be allowd to do a similar thing?

  33. Post #233
    I am no one's bitch now! AHAHA!
    robotman5's Avatar
    October 2008
    4,057 Posts
    This usually doesn't end well...
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  34. Post #234
    While there is no reason why games shouldn't be allowed to to show rape like movies do, this one has NO rape. None at all. It's sexual harassment at most. This shit is so overblown it makes me more sick than actual virtual rape.
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  35. Post #235
    Gold Member
    Mr. N's Avatar
    July 2010
    2,677 Posts
    If anything, I think it adds to the atmosphere more than character development. You know you are in some gritty shit when you have people and animals trying to rip your shit, having your friends murdered, and to put icing on the cake, one of these guys even tried to rape you.

    Either way, it isn't very bad. It isn't like the whole "This girl is raped look how strong willed and independent she is" cliche either. It is just a little semi-shocking quicktime event. Not a big deal

  36. Post #236
    Gold Member
    Rex McCoolguy's Avatar
    January 2011
    3,270 Posts
    a) rape IS genocide,
    Rape = the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group
    What the fuck am I reading
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  37. Post #237
    Gold Member
    proch's Avatar
    July 2009
    17,973 Posts
    Rape happens in real life all the time. Why should a game that is supposed to have plot elements that build character's personalities be devoid of those aspects of real life? Why is it that a game can be violent, gory, involve murder, suicide, genocide, racism, drug abuse, prostitution, and the lot, but as soon as rape comes up, WOAH TOO FAR MAN.
    Exactly. Back when Tomb Raider was first created, gaming wasn't as mature as it is now. So people just thought "woo a woman with big boobs, awesome" and went on with it. But nowadays gaming is growing up, and honestly, if a lawless bandit would have the upper hand over a supposingly weak femanle (for example through having a gun, like in the trailer), he'd probably rape her.

  38. Post #238
    Gold Member
    Raizo's Avatar
    October 2011
    2,578 Posts
    *sigh*
    rape IS genocide
    'I have a vagina so I know what rape feels like'
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  39. Post #239
    LtKyle2's Avatar
    March 2011
    3,987 Posts
    brilliant, in order for the character to evolve she must be sexually assaulted!
    Oh no, we've unleashed the dragon.

  40. Post #240
    supertribute's Avatar
    March 2012
    1,701 Posts
    Honestly I didn't smell anything until Eli had to tell Gordon something, and then was interrupted.
    Obviously every L O S T plot ends like that when that damn smoke monster kill someone.