[Governor Goblin]

Lankist posted:

Then you cannot argue that rape in a game is anything but shallow.

Actually you can.

It's easy. It's not shallow. It's a story element that is used. The concept of which is no worse than other things that have actually been in video games before.

[Lankist]

Governor Goblin posted:

The concept of which is no worse than other things that have actually been in video games before.

Lankist posted:

The issue isn't so much about what happened as it is whether or not the subject matter is being granted the respect it deserves. The problem here is that it's quite blatantly using implied rape as a justification for gameplay, which is flimsy and shallow. It's basically saying "we want you to kill these guys because they tried to rape you," which is manipulative. And this is one of those subjects that it is incredibly unwise and amateurish to manipulate like that.

If you'd like another example, watch the Extra Credits episode about Call of Juarez. That game used an extremely tragic, ongoing, real-world conflict between government and cartels in Mexico to justify shooting black people and mexicans with wanton disregard. Even worse, the game woefully misrepresented the conflict and implied that mexicans kidnap American women and sell them as sex slaves in mexico, when the human trafficking practice usually works the other way around. The whole way that game was handled reeked of xenophobia, racism and disrespect, because they used a sensitive topic as a shallow ploy to justify gameplay.

Nobody is saying games can't deal with themes of rape. But it is a subject that deserves more respect than a passing reference as a justification to kill.

"No worse" doesn't really work when video games are pretty awful about this sort of thing in general.

[Motherfuckers]

Video games can no longer reference things that happen in real life.


Also the people who play them have to wear boxing gloves and a giant foam helmet in case their fragile world views are offended by the gripping in game symbolism.

[Lankist]

Motherfuckers posted:

Video games can no longer reference things that happen in real life.


Also the people who play them have to wear boxing gloves and a giant foam helmet in case their fragile world views are offended by the gripping in game symbolism.

Lankist posted:

The issue isn't so much about what happened as it is whether or not the subject matter is being granted the respect it deserves. The problem here is that it's quite blatantly using implied rape as a justification for gameplay, which is flimsy and shallow. It's basically saying "we want you to kill these guys because they tried to rape you," which is manipulative. And this is one of those subjects that it is incredibly unwise and amateurish to manipulate like that.

If you'd like another example, watch the Extra Credits episode about Call of Juarez. That game used an extremely tragic, ongoing, real-world conflict between government and cartels in Mexico to justify shooting black people and mexicans with wanton disregard. Even worse, the game woefully misrepresented the conflict and implied that mexicans kidnap American women and sell them as sex slaves in mexico, when the human trafficking practice usually works the other way around. The whole way that game was handled reeked of xenophobia, racism and disrespect, because they used a sensitive topic as a shallow ploy to justify gameplay.

Nobody is saying games can't deal with themes of rape. But it is a subject that deserves more respect than a passing reference as a justification to kill.

[Motherfuckers]

I am offended by Doom for trivialising my religion into a shallow justification to kill.

I'm offended by pacman for misrepresenting eating disorders.

I am offended by half life 2 because it misrepresents genocide and uses it as nothing more than a flimsy justification to kill

I'm an easily offended dipshit with the mental inability to separate fiction from reality.

[Dori]

Motherfuckers posted:

I am offended by Doom for trivialising my religion into a shallow justification to kill.

I'm offended by pacman for misrepresenting eating disorders.

I am offended by half life 2 because it misrepresents genocide and uses it as nothing more than a flimsy justification to kill

I'm an easily offended dipshit with the mental inability to separate fiction from reality.

hey idk if you knew but media has an adverse effect on the way people think and act

[Lankist]

Motherfuckers posted:

I am offended by Doom for trivialising my religion into a shallow justification to kill.

I'm offended by pacman for misrepresenting eating disorders.

I am offended by half life 2 because it misrepresents genocide and uses it as nothing more than a flimsy justification to kill

I'm an easily offended dipshit with the mental inability to separate fiction from reality.

Nobody said those games were intellectual or mature.

[Dori]

its story is about as deep as a pothole puddle

[sHiBaN]

Why is there even an argument about it?

Video games need to advance. Only people who say its about feminism are more ignorant about what feminism is

[Motherfuckers]

Lankist posted:

Nobody said those games were intellectual or mature.

Name one 'intellectual' or 'mature' game.

[Lankist]

Motherfuckers posted:

Name one 'intellectual' or 'mature' game.

Portal.

Almost all problems solved through non-violent means. The (two) combat sequences are purely defensive. The humor is cerebral, and the game doesn't engage in cheaply profane humor. Gameplay is cerebral and requires consideration rather than blind violence. The game provides a sense of intellectual accomplishment after completing a puzzle rather than a juvenile accomplishment for maiming lots of things.

Quite a few strategy games also fit that, but Portal is the most relevant example.

[Dori]

culdcept

[Lankist]

Amnesia. Actually scary and psychologically disturbing without playing to juvenile tropes. The game doesn't forgive brashness and recklessness, let alone encourage it.

[SilverDragon619]

I am going to be okay with masturbating to this.

[Lankist]

Also I would put Deus Ex up there if Human Revolution didn't force you into dumb Rambo boss-fights. The game does actively encourage nonviolence, however, and does not forgive you for running around murdering.

[Dori]

SilverDragon619 posted:

I am going to be okay with masturbating to this.

literally nobody cares what you masturbate to

[Motherfuckers]

Lankist posted:

Portal.

Almost all problems solved through non-violent means. The (two) combat sequences are purely defensive. The humor is cerebral, and the game doesn't engage in cheaply profane humor. Gameplay is cerebral and requires consideration rather than blind violence. The game provides a sense of intellectual accomplishment after completing a puzzle rather than a juvenile accomplishment for maiming lots of things.

Quite a few strategy games also fit that, but Portal is the most relevant example.

I like this choice since there is a lot I can pretend to be offended about.

For instance the original portal once makes reference to the fact that the portal device is "now worth more than the combined organs and salaries of the entirety of [subject home town here]"

Well it just so happens I live in Mexico and am not only dirt poor but there is a thriving illegal organs trade here, way to fucking trivialise a constant threat too my safety and make fun of my economic situation, shitty game, uninstalling now.

I rebuke your claim that portal is 'intellectual' or mature when it is making fun of the poor and if you count portal 2, orphans as well.

[Lankist]

Motherfuckers posted:

I like this choice since there is a lot I can pretend to be offended about.

For instance the original portal once makes reference to the fact that the portal device is "now worth more than the combined organs and salaries of the entirety of [subject home town here]"

Well it just so happens I live in Mexico and am not only dirt poor but there is a thriving illegal organs trade here, way to fucking trivialise a constant threat too my safety and make fun of my economic situation, shitty game, uninstalling now.

I rebuke your claim that portal is 'intellectual' or mature when it is making fun of the poor and if you count portal 2, orphans as well.

You're seriously comparing that to rape.

hey please re-read this example of an actually derisive game toward mexico and mexicans

Lankist posted:

The issue isn't so much about what happened as it is whether or not the subject matter is being granted the respect it deserves. The problem here is that it's quite blatantly using implied rape as a justification for gameplay, which is flimsy and shallow. It's basically saying "we want you to kill these guys because they tried to rape you," which is manipulative. And this is one of those subjects that it is incredibly unwise and amateurish to manipulate like that.

If you'd like another example, watch the Extra Credits episode about Call of Juarez. That game used an extremely tragic, ongoing, real-world conflict between government and cartels in Mexico to justify shooting black people and mexicans with wanton disregard. Even worse, the game woefully misrepresented the conflict and implied that mexicans kidnap American women and sell them as sex slaves in mexico, when the human trafficking practice usually works the other way around. The whole way that game was handled reeked of xenophobia, racism and disrespect, because they used a sensitive topic as a shallow ploy to justify gameplay.

Nobody is saying games can't deal with themes of rape. But it is a subject that deserves more respect than a passing reference as a justification to kill.

[Motherfuckers]

Lankist posted:

You're seriously comparing that to rape.

hey please re-read this example of an actually derisive game toward mexico and mexicans

Way to dodge the issue with a completely tangential sidestep, I'm saying portal is a shitty game based on a passing comment about my wealth and organs, while it may seem pointless to you I am DEEPLY OFFENDED by that statement. Which makes portal a shitty game for kids.

PLEASE tell me you're getting this, I'm being DEEPLY OFFENDED by what would seem to be NOT A BIG DEAL in a work of FICTION

[Lankist]

Motherfuckers posted:

Way to dodge the issue with a completely tangential sidestep, I'm saying portal is a shitty game based on a passing comment about my wealth and organs, while it may seem pointless to you I am DEEPLY OFFENDED by that statement. Which makes portal a shitty game for kids.

PLEASE tell me you're getting this, I'm being DEEPLY OFFENDED by what would seem to be NOT A BIG DEAL

Nobody cares if you're offended.

Derision is the issue, not offense.

You people need to understand that this issue is not as simple as "i am offended."

Edited:

also why on earth would you let your kids play portal

Edited:

it's a game about being toyed with by a homicidal maniac

[Motherfuckers]

Lankist posted:

Nobody cares if you're offended.

Derision is the issue, not offense.

YES DERISION IS THE ISSUE, I feel completely derided by that passing statement because I happen to be in a small minority of people who would probably be upset by it.

How about I just spell it out for you so you can't actually argue since you're terrible at it, what I am saying is that the game didn't DELIBERATELY deride people who are poor and afraid of having their organs stolen, it was a joke, RAPE in tomb raider isn't a deliberate attack of rape victims, it's a plot device.

Besides the only reason this is a big deal is because new media is evil, TV, books and many other mediums have approached the issue of rape in worse and more callous ways, but nobody gives a shit about them.

Edited:

Sanius posted:

hey idk if you knew but media has an adverse effect on the way people think and act

Nice argument, Let's ban all media than since it is affecting our fragile little minds.

I mean I dunno about you but after watching game of thrones all I want to do is fuck my sister.

[RidleySmash]

Why should we care? They show little kids being brutally murdered in some of the silent hill games, and has anyone complained? NOPE
Some monsters and enviroments even symbolize rape, and has anyone complained? NOPE

[Xenomoose]

sHiBaN posted:

Why is there even an argument about it?

Video games need to advance. Only people who say its about feminism are more ignorant about what feminism is

IIRC, Feminists actually like it when rape is portrayed in media because it's portrayed as a negative thing and it spreads awareness of crimes like rape and sexual assault.

[Motherfuckers]

RidleySmash posted:

Why should we care? They show little kids being brutally murdered in some of the silent hill games, and has anyone complained? NOPE

Well you see, Tomb Raider is more famous, and attracts a wider audiences attention, Now when you get a wider audience, you are bound to come across assholes who want a slice of that audience pie, now these assholes say "well it's a slow news day, time to stir up the other assholes with a sensationalist headline" and than they whip their asshole puppets into a frenzy to create controversy and website hits off the resulting internet retards outrage, both real and false.

[thisispain]

Motherfuckers posted:

Well you see, Tomb Raider is more famous, and attracts a wider audiences attention, Now when you get a wider audience, you are bound to come across assholes who want a slice of that audience pie, now these assholes say "well it's a slow news day, time to stir up the other assholes with a sensationalist headline" and than they whip their asshole puppets into a frenzy to create controversy and website hits off the resulting internet retards outrage, both real and false.

the fuck is an audience pie

[Motherfuckers]

thisispain posted:

the fuck is an audience pie

S'like a metaphorical thing, like "A slice of the pie"

It means they want some of that wider audience to give them website hits.

I've gotta stop using sarcasm and metaphors and analogies on the internet...

[Roukan]

thisispain posted:

brilliant, in order for the character to evolve she must be sexually assaulted!

Why not? At this point she knows how to survive but not how to defend herself, and this situation brings up the right moment for her to prove herself, or die. It's the exact same as someone pointing a gun at Max Payne, just different context.