1. Post #81
    Dennab
    June 2012
    1,199 Posts
    wh- what

    so clinical depression is a choice because you can help it? Schizophrenia is a choice because you can treat it?
    You're not born with either so, wh- what

    why is everything black/white with you johnny

    and before you say it, it's not a valid point because buddy on the other page was trying to convince me that you're born with it and can't do anything to get rid of the fetish, not disease, or illness.
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  2. Post #82
    Gratuitous Penis Exposure Moderator
    Gurant's Avatar
    September 2005
    4,229 Posts
    I love sweden. <3
    Uhm, why? The only reason why this was up for court is because Sweden has fucked up laws to begin with. 2 other verdicts before this found him guilty.
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  3. Post #83
    a cervine
    nnanna's Avatar
    May 2008
    7,280 Posts
    then criminalize everything. since anything can trigger underlying paedophilia.
    I never said to criminalize anything. I just said that this is the reason why people want to criminalize loli.
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  4. Post #84
    You're not born with either so, wh- what
    oh I get it you're trolling
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  5. Post #85
    Dennab
    June 2012
    1,199 Posts
    you cant compare two very different things because "why not"

  6. Post #86
    why is everything black/white with you johnny
    what do you mean by this

    Edited:

    you cant compare two very different things because "why not"
    I don't see how those are different

    and what the hell are you talking about "because 'why not'"

  7. Post #87
    Dennab
    June 2012
    1,199 Posts
    I mean it's either one way, or another with what your saying. Your argument makes it seem like you don't see that what I'm saying doesn't apply to everyone and I'm just saying everyone can fix their "problem" like it's nothing, and that's not what I'm trying to express.

    And comparing this "loli" fetish shit to clinical depression and schizophrenia is the biggest stretch i've ever seen, but again I digress because you aren't born with either illnesses, just like the fetish.

    Hell, the only connection the three have are that you're not born with them, and can be treated (not saying your fetish is an illness of any sort, I feel like i've had to express this 4 times).

  8. Post #88
    And comparing this "loli" fetish shit to clinical depression and schizophrenia is the biggest stretch i've ever seen, but again I digress because you aren't born with either illnesses, just like the fetish.
    so you're saying either that people who are schizophrenic either can choose not to be, or that mental disorders which you are not born with (in the strictest sense, but develop later) can be not chosen

    Edited:

    Hell, the only connection the three have are that you're not born with them, and can be treated (not saying your fetish is an illness of any sort, I feel like i've had to express this 4 times).
    Why do you think the distinction between mental disorders is so huge just because they seem like different things
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  9. Post #89
    Gold Member
    Crimor's Avatar
    June 2008
    11,000 Posts
    Bored of him now since he started repeating himself, won't hear any complaints from me if you blam him



    And for the first time in like the last two pages, let's get back on topic, the ECPAT (End Child Prostitution, Child Pornography, and Trafficking of Children for Sexual Purposes) is REALLY against this for some retarded reason, but eh, it was founded by americans afaik so it's bound to be buttfuckingly retarded when it comes to sexuality. Though funnily enough I don't think they've ever complained about denmarks stance on it, and we've had museums showing loli and shota
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  10. Post #90
    Dennab
    June 2012
    1,199 Posts
    so you're saying either that
    look even your wording implies it's one way or another; black/white with you.

    I honestly don't give a fuck about the schizophrenia and mental disorders because it has nothing to do with this thread. Yeah guy, you're not born with them and you don't choose them either (Unlike this dumbass fetish) which is why your argument has no back because its barely even relative to the topic at hand

    Look guy, I'm going to make it as clear as possible to my understanding. There is nothing wrong with the fucking pictures or what ever, fap to what you want to; but trying to defend it to society as "I can't help it, I'm born this way" is completely false because you CAN help it, it's not an illness its just a sexual fetish, and could lead some people to wanting to try the shit they see, on kids and I don't mean absoloutley everyone who looks at loli porn.

    I think I had to clear that part up for you so you don't think I mean everyone or noone :)

    You can keep arguing about defending fictional child porn if you really want to, i'm not into that kind of shit though.
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  11. Post #91
    Glod Menber
    Maximum Mod's Avatar
    June 2008
    4,518 Posts
    Swedish opinion piece against this: http://debatt.svt.se/2012/06/15/helt...v-hd-att-fria/

    An organization for prevention and informing of sexual assault against children and young adults apparently does not like this. They are along with the bandwagon that the acceptance of anything that can be percieved as child porn is wrong. What the fuck.
    I liked one of the comments:

    Kai Weinefelt posted:
    Here's a long post:

    Firstly I want to comment what Barnkraft [Child power] is saying:

    "You can't help wondering about why? Why the need should even exist?"

    Well. Why are there humans with other ideas, thoughts and fantasies than the ones you have? The need to express ones thoughts in different shapes will always exist. To express oneself in the shape of drawn children having sex with adults (or other children, or aliens or whatever) doesn't even have to be anything sexual - it might as well be about pure spite or exploring unknown ground. The need has always existed and will always exist - whether you like it or not. I don't see a problm with it unless it hurts somebody else.

    "That drawn child pornographic images is becoming an accepted form by the public is nothing other than tragic. What do we say to our own or others' children who see this? Can we defend it? What do we do then?"

    To start with, this isn't something that will be seen in commercials or pushed into the face of children. Don't try to make this something that will meet children in their daily life - because it won't.

    If my children would see such an image I'd just say "It's a cartoon, it's not real". It doesn't get harder or more dramatical than you make it.

    And now to a couple of questions to the guards of morale:

    1) In what way does a prohibition against fantasy figures protect real children? The law's purpose must surely be to protect real children, not to censor what some think is disgusting. Do you believe in all seriousness that the number of real abuses will decrease if these drawings are prohibited? If you want the law to protect or censor?

    2) Concerning normalization. The vast majority of us do not think this kind of pictures are especially tasteful. The vast majority of us also will not start to consume drawn child pornography just because of The Supreme Court's judgment.
    But what makes you believe that child pornography will become more accepted in real life just because the drawings go free? That is just like believing that violent television series and movies depicting murder against innocent people encourages people to murder and hurt.

    There are always a smalla amount of people who will do this, but that's not because of the movie or television series, but because they're mentally unstable. Most people have an excellent capability to distinguish between reality and fiction. Just because you enjoy shooting the head off a character in a video game does not mean they have any intentions to do the same in real life. That distinction there does not seem to be many of the moral guardians who understand.

    To equate animated fantasy figures to real children, to equate a fake abuse in the imaginary world of a real child who is exposed to a real abuse - and treat it as an equivalent offense in which the police should spend as much on fantasy figures as the real children - THAT is offensive against the child if anything. And that is exactly what you, ECPAT and others who are suffering from complete moral panic want. If there are anyone that violate real children, it's you, with your skewed view of reality!
    Probably not a top-notch translation, did it in ~35 minutes
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  12. Post #92
    What's brevity?
    ironman17's Avatar
    June 2006
    19,810 Posts
    Well, good that someone knows what's up. It's fabricated stuff anyway; no little girls were harmed in the making of this lolicon. Sure it's not exactly kosher in most people's Torahs, but if no-one gets hurt (except mentally-challenged older conservatives), there's nothing overtly wrong from a moral standpoint. Unless it's traced from actual CP, in which case it's objectively not kosher at all. Some dude called Dr Comet apparently did that, and that's bad too.
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  13. Post #93
    >implications unpleasant
    xxncxx's Avatar
    June 2008
    11,179 Posts
    look even your wording implies it's one way or another; black/white with you.

    I honestly don't give a fuck about the schizophrenia and mental disorders because it has nothing to do with this thread. Yeah guy, you're not born with them and you don't choose them either (Unlike this dumbass fetish) which is why your argument has no back because its barely even relative to the topic at hand

    Look guy, I'm going to make it as clear as possible to my understanding. There is nothing wrong with the fucking pictures or what ever, fap to what you want to; but trying to defend it to society as "I can't help it, I'm born this way" is completely false because you CAN help it, it's not an illness its just a sexual fetish, and could lead some people to wanting to try the shit they see, on kids and I don't mean absoloutley everyone who looks at loli porn.

    I think I had to clear that part up for you so you don't think I mean everyone or noone :)

    You can keep arguing about defending fictional child porn if you really want to, i'm not into that kind of shit though.
    You clearly do not understand how fetishes work. Please re-educate yourself before you return to this thread. You've made it obvious over the 10 or so posts that spout senseless hate on a topic you know nothing of.
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  14. Post #94
    Gold Member
    Boxbot219's Avatar
    September 2005
    2,266 Posts
    Please DentalDoctor tell us more about how people choose to be pedophiles in a world that absolutely despises them.
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  15. Post #95
    black_tech's Avatar
    May 2007
    340 Posts
    Meanwhile, in Norway:
    Wikipedia posted:
    As of 2005, the Norwegian penal act criminalizes any depictions that 'sexualize' children, even if it does not actually show sexual acts with children. This would include any artificially produced material, for example, written text, drawn images, animation, manipulated images, an adult model with childish clothes/toys/surroundings.
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  16. Post #96
    I HAVE A TOASTER FETISH
    mopman999's Avatar
    July 2009
    3,983 Posts
    look even your wording implies it's one way or another; black/white with you.

    I honestly don't give a fuck about the schizophrenia and mental disorders because it has nothing to do with this thread. Yeah guy, you're not born with them and you don't choose them either (Unlike this dumbass fetish) which is why your argument has no back because its barely even relative to the topic at hand

    Look guy, I'm going to make it as clear as possible to my understanding. There is nothing wrong with the fucking pictures or what ever, fap to what you want to; but trying to defend it to society as "I can't help it, I'm born this way" is completely false because you CAN help it, it's not an illness its just a sexual fetish, and could lead some people to wanting to try the shit they see, on kids and I don't mean absoloutley everyone who looks at loli porn.

    I think I had to clear that part up for you so you don't think I mean everyone or noone :)

    You can keep arguing about defending fictional child porn if you really want to, i'm not into that kind of shit though.
    Are you reading anything people are trying to tell you? Do you think one choses to be aroused by things that are unusual and disturbing? It is just how the brain works.
    As stated before if someone looks at porn it doesn't mean they are going to go commit rape, it just relieves a bit of the tension.
    Please put more thoughts into your posts.

  17. Post #97
    Riutet's Avatar
    April 2010
    2,945 Posts
    but trying to defend it to society as "I can't help it, I'm born this way" is completely false because you CAN help it
    "As a medical diagnosis, pedophilia, or pedophilia, is defined as a psychiatric disorder in adults or late adolescents (persons age 16 or older) typically characterized by a primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children"

    You really don't get to choose what it is you are attracted to I think perhaps all the time, I don't claim to possess any specialised knowledge on how the human mind works, but I am pretty sure there are plenty of people cursing their poor luck for being attracted to what they are attracted to.

    There are two classified types of pedophiles of which I am aware, exclusive pedophiles and non-exclusive, the latter simply being attracted to children in addition to the other things they are attracted to, and the former being those who only find attraction in children.

    Both groups have a choice when it comes to whether they decide to fap to lolicon, or whether they do not, they do not have a choice as to whether they are attracted to children however. I will concede that provided they do not have an additional serious mental condition, that they can just choose to not fap to lolicon.

    The issue I take with what you are saying is that there is really no reason other than it may provoke the mentally unstable to go to increasing lengths to get their delicious flat chest, to ban lolicon . No child is being harmed in the creation of the content (with perhaps the exception of some studios which I have heard about who use child models to draw from though I am not sure as to the legitimacy of the claim that some do, though I wouldn't discount it) and anyone of sound mind is not going to violate their own morals because years of lolicon has whittled away at their self-restraint, it doesn't work that way.

    You cannot prohibit or demonise something that itself is not harmful simply because those of mental instability may be influenced negatively by it, because a significant chunk of the entertainment we enjoy today could be banned under this chain of logic.

    Society has no place deciding what pornography is deemed right or wrong, the reason why real child pornography is viewed the way it is, is because I don't believe it is possible to create it without causing serious bodily/mental harm to the child/ren taking part in the creation of said content. You don't have that with lolicon (with the exception I mentioned above but then that is real child pornography as it's simply a different rendering method used to present a real child in a sexual situation) because the children within that are not real, no one is harmed.

    it's not an illness its just a sexual fetish
    I don't know who to trust on this matter, DentalDoctor of Facepunch Studios, or the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.

    and could lead some people to wanting to try the shit they see, on kids and I don't mean absoloutley everyone who looks at loli porn.
    Slippery slope without proof, people have sexually violated children without even having bore witness to child pornography of any form, the problem is with the people, not with the content.

  18. Post #98
    Mind Infection's Avatar
    March 2009
    285 Posts
    Well I think it's hot.
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  19. Post #99
    Turbo Dyke
    .Lain's Avatar
    June 2010
    21,574 Posts
    Alright, you're all so against this, what about those people you're murdering mindlessly in FPS games?
    Oh, that's right, they aren't real.

    I seem to find that FP defends video game violence with high regards and insists that it does not lead you on
    Bunch of hypocrites.
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  20. Post #100
    Gold Member
    Crimor's Avatar
    June 2008
    11,000 Posts
    Alright, you're all so against this, what about those people you're murdering mindlessly in FPS games?
    Oh, that's right, they aren't real.

    I seem to find that FP defends video game violence with high regards and insists that it does not lead you on
    Bunch of hypocrites.
    What thread have you been looking at, most of the people here have been supportive, albeit some still were disgusted by it they didn't think it should be illegal.
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  21. Post #101
    Turbo Dyke
    .Lain's Avatar
    June 2010
    21,574 Posts
    What thread have you been looking at, most of the people here have been supportive, albeit some still were disgusted by it they didn't think it should be illegal.
    Well, point still stands to anyone that is against it
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  22. Post #102
    Gold Member
    Jellyman's Avatar
    October 2011
    1,389 Posts
    -snip-

  23. Post #103
    Good.
    Let people jerk it to whatever, man. Long as it doesn't hurt somebody it's 100 percent cool with me.
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  24. Post #104
    Gold Member
    Crimor's Avatar
    June 2008
    11,000 Posts
    Good.
    Let people jerk it to whatever, man. Long as it doesn't hurt somebody it's 100 percent cool with me.
    Then you'd like denmark, that's pretty much our freedom of expression in a nutshell
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  25. Post #105
    Conservative Cunt who fucking loves piss
    Elecbullet's Avatar
    November 2007
    11,799 Posts
    Exactly. If no one was harmed, it shouldn't be criminal. If it's just drawings, then no one was harmed, and punishing him would be amoral.
    It is a bit odd that you would use the word "amoral", as it is so often sharply criticized by the more liberal members of this board.

    Edited:

    I bet you also think homosexuality is a choice.
    I do believe that exposure to fetish porn will indeed make your fetishes take up more of your sexual desire, pushing away the more conventional wants.
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  26. Post #106
    It is a bit odd that you would use the word "amoral", as it is so often sharply criticized by the more liberal members of this board.
    He also used it incorrectly.
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  27. Post #107
    Gold Member
    Crimor's Avatar
    June 2008
    11,000 Posts
    I do believe that exposure to fetish porn will indeed make your fetishes take up more of your sexual desire, pushing away the more conventional wants.
    So homosexuality and pedophilia are fetishes in your mind? Good job hammering someone for using a word when you can't use the word fetish right.

  28. Post #108
    >implications unpleasant
    xxncxx's Avatar
    June 2008
    11,179 Posts
    "As a medical diagnosis, pedophilia, or pedophilia, is defined as a psychiatric disorder in adults or late adolescents (persons age 16 or older) typically characterized by a primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children"

    You really don't get to choose what it is you are attracted to I think perhaps all the time, I don't claim to possess any specialised knowledge on how the human mind works, but I am pretty sure there are plenty of people cursing their poor luck for being attracted to what they are attracted to.

    There are two classified types of pedophiles of which I am aware, exclusive pedophiles and non-exclusive, the latter simply being attracted to children in addition to the other things they are attracted to, and the former being those who only find attraction in children.

    Both groups have a choice when it comes to whether they decide to fap to lolicon, or whether they do not, they do not have a choice as to whether they are attracted to children however. I will concede that provided they do not have an additional serious mental condition, that they can just choose to not fap to lolicon.

    The issue I take with what you are saying is that there is really no reason other than it may provoke the mentally unstable to go to increasing lengths to get their delicious flat chest, to ban lolicon . No child is being harmed in the creation of the content (with perhaps the exception of some studios which I have heard about who use child models to draw from though I am not sure as to the legitimacy of the claim that some do, though I wouldn't discount it) and anyone of sound mind is not going to violate their own morals because years of lolicon has whittled away at their self-restraint, it doesn't work that way.

    You cannot prohibit or demonise something that itself is not harmful simply because those of mental instability may be influenced negatively by it, because a significant chunk of the entertainment we enjoy today could be banned under this chain of logic.

    Society has no place deciding what pornography is deemed right or wrong, the reason why real child pornography is viewed the way it is, is because I don't believe it is possible to create it without causing serious bodily/mental harm to the child/ren taking part in the creation of said content. You don't have that with lolicon (with the exception I mentioned above but then that is real child pornography as it's simply a different rendering method used to present a real child in a sexual situation) because the children within that are not real, no one is harmed.



    I don't know who to trust on this matter, DentalDoctor of Facepunch Studios, or the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.



    Slippery slope without proof, people have sexually violated children without even having bore witness to child pornography of any form, the problem is with the people, not with the content.
    If pedophilia is a disorder, then so is every other philia.

    No, that's stupid.
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  29. Post #109
    Conservative Cunt who fucking loves piss
    Elecbullet's Avatar
    November 2007
    11,799 Posts
    So homosexuality and pedophilia are fetishes in your mind? Good job hammering someone for using a word when you can't use the word fetish right.
    The subject was pedophilia which I would probably consider a kind of fetish. That bit about homosexuality was responding to a bit about pedophilia, I would not call homosexuality a fetish.
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  30. Post #110
    Gold Member
    Madman_Andre's Avatar
    November 2007
    7,239 Posts
    Well I just basically mean that anything can happen. Here is the case what I thought up in my head.

    Someone random browsing the internet and finds loli. He goes through them, faps, whatever. "Well, that was weird." He might think. Anyway, at this point he might actually start trying to find more because now he knows that he liked it. And at that point when there is an opportunity to "harm" children instead of passing the chance he already have been in contact with the subject through internet and pictures and maybe even photos, if he hadn't found the pictures in the first place he wouldn't even realize it. It might be just watching first, but if your moral isn't working as it should it might turn into a real life horror story. And we know these things do happen.
    We really should not be basing extremely pertinent legislation on "What If." When a country or nation starts to do that, it sets itself onto the fast track to Totalitarianism.

  31. Post #111
    Karahaut's Avatar
    April 2011
    1,388 Posts
    i find it funny how some people can assume that anyone that likes loli and other variants are going to want the real thing

    sorry but that's not really how it works

       i like loli but god knows any thought of an actual boy or girl doing this makes me want to throw up in my mouth   
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  32. Post #112
    7331's Avatar
    April 2012
    566 Posts
    Not sure how does one get turned on by loli I always do my sessions on e-hentai galleries ..... and stumbled upon crap like furry or this I just cannot get a boner from those things.
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  33. Post #113
    Ms. Andry
    Dori's Avatar
    August 2005
    10,038 Posts
    Not sure how does one get turned on by loli I always do my sessions on e-hentai galleries ..... and stumbled upon crap like furry or this I just cannot get a boner from those things.
    what?
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  34. Post #114
    Pomf =3
    Paige's Avatar
    October 2008
    3,582 Posts
    -a lot of stuff from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.-
    You do realize the ONLY REASON society views pedophilia as bad or weird is because about 200(possibly more I forgot) or so years ago, we started thinking of children as more precious than we used to. We used to fuck kids a bit after they hit puberty to keep the population alive.

    The disgusting feelings you get over someone being a pedophile is entirely a social construct.

    (Also that used to classify being gay as a mental disorder and still classifies being trans as one)
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  35. Post #115
    Resplendent Reenactor
    Zillamaster55's Avatar
    June 2010
    18,613 Posts
    meanwhile in america

    simply seeing loli for 1 second will have you marked down as a sex offender for the rest of your life.
    Actually no that doesn't happen at all
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  36. Post #116
    As a wise man once said: Never ask Fatfatfatty for computer advice
    Dennab
    March 2009
    13,456 Posts
    I dont think he should face full charges for posessing pedophilic imagery, but he shouldn't get off scot-free. Community service or a small fine should be good enough
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  37. Post #117
    Gold Member
    Patriarch's Avatar
    June 2010
    1,507 Posts
    I dont think he should face full charges for posessing pedophilic imagery, but he shouldn't get off scot-free. Community service or a small fine should be good enough
    Except he does not/did not possess pedophillic imagery; only one image, and that's hardly a good basis.

  38. Post #118
    Newbie Programmer
    UnMute's Avatar
    November 2009
    1,087 Posts
    For additional background and those that are interested, here is my thread from last year, about the previous ruling: http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?...534&highlight=
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  39. Post #119
    Turbo Dyke
    .Lain's Avatar
    June 2010
    21,574 Posts
    What I've always wondered;
    How do they judge the age of a drawn character?
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  40. Post #120
    Max
    Ikuu~
    Max's Avatar
    May 2009
    15,154 Posts
    What I've always wondered;
    How do they judge the age of a drawn character?
    Tit-size
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