1. Post #1
    Gold Member
    matt.ant's Avatar
    September 2006
    4,698 Posts
    A woman with "severe" anorexia who wanted to be allowed to die is to be force fed in her "best interests" by order of a High Court judge.

    Mr Justice Peter Jackson declared that the 32-year-old from Wales, who cannot be identified, did not have the capacity to make decisions for herself.He made public his judgment on Friday after making the ruling last month.

    But Glyn Davies, Conservative MP for Montgomeryshire, used Twitter to criticise the judge's ruling.

    He tweeted: "Shocking that judge orders anorexic Welsh woman be force fed against her will.

    "She should be allowed to die with dignity. Shameful decision".

    The case was brought by the woman's local authority, which also cannot be identified.

    The court heard that the woman - known only as E - had altered her living will.

    Initially, it said she wanted to die when the time came and she did not want to be revived.

    Later, she said she wanted to live and wanted to make her own decisions about her future.

    The judge, sitting in the Court of Protection, said it was a "a very difficult decision" for him to make because it required "a balance to be struck between the weight objectively to be given to life on one hand and to personal independence on the other".

    Giving his reasons, the judge said that although she was "gravely unwell, she is not incurable".He said: "She does not seek death, but above all she does not want to eat or to be fed.

    "She sees her life as pointless and wants to be allowed to make her own choices, realising that refusal to eat must lead to her death."

    When her case was brought to the court last month by the unnamed local authority the judge said: "E's death was imminent. She was refusing to eat and was taking only a small amount of water.

    "She was being looked after in a community hospital under a palliative care regime whose purpose was to allow her to die in comfort."

    He revealed that the "intelligent and charming" woman began to control her eating at the age of 11 and had not taken solid food for over a year.

    The judge said the balancing exercise had to be intuitive and considering all the factors.

    He added: "On one side, I have been struck by the fact that the people who know E best do not favour further treatment. They think that she has had enough and believe that her wishes should be respected.

    "They believe she should be allowed a dignified death."

    He acknowledged that her parents were in an "impossible" position and that "does not merely entail bodily intrusion of the most intimate kind, but the overbearing of E's will in a way that she experiences as abusive".

    The judge said that E's own views were "entitled to high respect" adding: "She is not a child or a very young adult, but an intelligent and articulate woman, and the weight to be given to her view of life is correspondingly greater."

    He said that he also had regard to the fact that the application was only brought after E and her family and carers had embarked a long way down the course of palliative treatment.

    He said: "The state is now seeking to intervene very late in the day and a return to compulsion will be excruciating for them."

    The judge added: "E is a special person, whose life is of value. She does not see it that way now, but she may in future.

    "I would not overrule her wishes if further treatment was futile, but it is not. Although extremely burdensome to E, there is a possibility that it will succeed.

    "Services and funding will now be provided that were not available before and it would not be right to turn down the final chance of helping this very vulnerable young woman."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-18464254
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  2. Post #2
    Gold Member
    Gustafa's Avatar
    August 2005
    1,892 Posts
    Difficult decision to make, however if she does not want to die then I think this decision is just. Especially if she is not sound in her mind.

    Edited:

    Also

    Mr Justice Peter Jackson declared that the 32-year-old from Wales
    really?
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  3. Post #3
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  4. Post #4
    IDIOT WHO IS NEVER FUNNY AND CANT UNDER STAND WHEN NOT WANTED
    loopoo's Avatar
    September 2006
    6,343 Posts
    I'm with the judge on this one. For God's sake, the woman is only 32. She's far too young to be throwing her life away, especially due to anorexia. I'm sure if she gets through this and becomes healthy, she'll look back and be grateful she didn't end up dying. Honestly, at 32, there's still so much that can happen in your life.

    I'm glad she's been given life over death.
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  5. Post #5
    dubstep
    SCopE5000's Avatar
    August 2005
    4,197 Posts
    She sounds pretty 'caught up in the story'.

    Unfortunately she's not going to get the help that she needs, because traditional psychology is not the way to go in these circumstances.. It'll simply mask the cause by adding more 'story' when she really needs to figure out, in her own way, that it's just a story.
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  6. Post #6
    Gold Member
    BrickInHead's Avatar
    March 2007
    17,305 Posts
    it's funny that this is technically a human rights violation lmao
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  7. Post #7
    Gold Member
    Squad's Avatar
    March 2009
    3,365 Posts
    She sounds pretty 'caught up in the story'.

    Unfortunately she's not going to get the help that she needs, because traditional psychology is not the way to go in these circumstances.. It'll simply mask the cause by adding more 'story' when she really needs to figure out, in her own way, that it's just a story.
    Someone who has experience in this sort of thing would definitely be helpful. There are good and bad psychologist and some of them are more suited to handle and help people through these situations. Someone who tells her its her moms fault is clearly a bad choice, but someone that can listen to her and try and figure out why she has made this decision could definitely help her.

  8. Post #8
    I'M A MASSIVE FAGGOT AND LOVE COCKS
    DrBreen's Avatar
    June 2007
    4,991 Posts
    Either way is morally good
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  9. Post #9
    ...For some reason I imagined her being strapped down and have burgers shoved down her throat...


    That aside, I think this is good. No other way she'll recover, right?
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  10. Post #10
    Actually a cool guy
    David29's Avatar
    June 2005
    3,028 Posts
    This cannot be his actual name, can it?
    It's a title applied to certain judges, like Mr Speaker in parliament.

    Edit: Why is this funny?
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  11. Post #11
    It's a title applied to certain judges, like Mr Speaker in parliament.
    Didn't know that. But still Peter Jackson?
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  12. Post #12
    Gold Member
    redBadger's Avatar
    November 2008
    15,040 Posts
    I still remember this movie about women in WWI, they were doing peaceful protests for their voting rights. They ended up going to jail.

    One of the women went on a hunger strike. She was on it for the longest, but her friends followed. Eventually, they force fed her. She strapped her down on a chair, locked her in, forced and locked her jaw open, and stuck a clear tube down her throat. You could see the pipe moving down her neck. They cracked open some eggs, hooked up this funnel/nozzle contraption to the end of the pipe. They put the eggs into the funnel and pulled the nozzle to pull the eggs down into her stomach. After they fed her enough, they unstrapped her and quickly pulled the hose out so she can vomit, then they proceeded again. This happened every day.

    I'm pretty sure this is still how they do it.
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  13. Post #13
    Gold Member
    taipan's Avatar
    September 2005
    5,578 Posts
    Anorexia is a mental disorder that is clouding her judgement, she needs to be protected from herself untill she gets well.
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  14. Post #14
    Gold Member
    redBadger's Avatar
    November 2008
    15,040 Posts
    here it is:

    (might be nsfw for some)

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  15. Post #15
    Gold Member
    Doom14's Avatar
    October 2006
    6,166 Posts
    Don't we already interfere when people try to kill themselves?

    I mean, it is odd being a court case where the judge is forcing said person's recovery; but it's semi-similar to forcing people who are trying to jump off of some shit; not to/to land safely and then get mental help.

    While the force is awkward, I'm glad we're not a society that tells her just to go for it and die already.

  16. Post #16
    Gold Member
    Electrocuter's Avatar
    December 2005
    6,178 Posts
    "She should be allowed to die with dignity."
    I don't see death by anorexia to be a dignified death, it's a mental disorder that killing her, not her own decision.
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  17. Post #17
    Gold Member
    smurfy's Avatar
    October 2007
    22,057 Posts
    She sounds pretty 'caught up in the story'.

    Unfortunately she's not going to get the help that she needs, because traditional psychology is not the way to go in these circumstances.. It'll simply mask the cause by adding more 'story' when she really needs to figure out, in her own way, that it's just a story.
    I don't understand any of these uses of the word story
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  18. Post #18
    Nearie's Avatar
    May 2012
    142 Posts
    She hasn't eaten solid foods since she was 11? How did her parents not notice that she had been losing weight at such rapidity?
    Her family could be like many families in America and not eat together, but I didn't think that was very common for the late 80's/early 90's

    maybe I'm wrong.

  19. Post #19
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    June 2009
    6,496 Posts
    She says she doesn't want to die but she also doesn't want to eat, if she doesn't eat she's going to die, clearly she isn't thinking things logically for whatever reason and needs help. It's like insisting that you want to live, going on a skydiving trip, and minutes before you jump, demand that you use a parasol instead of a parachute because you think you can just float down like Mary Poppins. Nonsense.

    Edited:

    She hasn't eaten solid foods since she was 11? How did her parents not notice that she had been losing weight at such rapidity?
    She's been 'controlling her eating' since 11, just eating less than she should have been to be at a healthy weight. Denying herself food when she's hungry. She's only been a year without solid food.

    Her family could be like many families in America and not eat together, but I didn't think that was very common for the late 80's/early 90's
    She's in Wales, not America.

  20. Post #20
    Gold Member
    matt.ant's Avatar
    September 2006
    4,698 Posts
    She hasn't eaten solid foods since she was 11? How did her parents not notice that she had been losing weight at such rapidity?
    Her family could be like many families in America and not eat together, but I didn't think that was very common for the late 80's/early 90's

    maybe I'm wrong.
    She's 'controlled' her eating from age 11, she hasn't eaten solids for a year

  21. Post #21
    Gold Member
    Zang-Pog's Avatar
    August 2006
    5,888 Posts
    I don't know what to think of this, though I really hate how they can just ignore everything a person says just by blaming it on some mental thing. In some cases it might be the cause, but what if it truly is the will of the person?
    It's kind of a dick move to go shove food down somebodys throat who really doesen't want to eat, no?

  22. Post #22
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    June 2009
    6,496 Posts
    I don't know what to think of this, though I really hate how they can just ignore everything a person says just by blaming it on some mental thing. In some cases it might be the cause, but what if it truly is the will of the person?
    It's kind of a dick move to go shove food down somebodys throat who really doesen't want to eat, no?
    If she wants to live, there's no alternative. You can't say "I don't want to die, but I'll be damned if you take away my Russian roulette!"
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  23. Post #23
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    September 2007
    17,086 Posts
    I don't know what to think of this, though I really hate how they can just ignore everything a person says just by blaming it on some mental thing. In some cases it might be the cause, but what if it truly is the will of the person?
    It's kind of a dick move to go shove food down somebodys throat who really doesen't want to eat, no?
    its more of a dick move to make them die when nothing else is wrong with them
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  24. Post #24

    August 2009
    252 Posts
    This is normal for extreme cases of anorexia, nothing special.
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  25. Post #25
    Gold Member
    carcarcargo's Avatar
    October 2007
    15,289 Posts
    If she's mentally unwell then this is totally justified, we shouldn't just leave those with mental problems to die, anyone who thinks this is wrong is a moron.
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  26. Post #26
    Gold Member
    ghosevil's Avatar
    September 2005
    2,838 Posts
    Unless her goal is suicide she should be fed & treated for her condition..

  27. Post #27
    Gold Member
    Zoran's Avatar
    February 2011
    7,985 Posts
    If her goal is suicide, we should be making euthanasia legal.
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  28. Post #28
    The ability to refuse care if you have a mental disease is such a thorny issue, it sucks that we have to confront it like this all the time.
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  29. Post #29
    SoaringScout's Avatar
    February 2010
    6,750 Posts
    I still remember this movie about women in WWI, they were doing peaceful protests for their voting rights. They ended up going to jail.

    One of the women went on a hunger strike. She was on it for the longest, but her friends followed. Eventually, they force fed her. She strapped her down on a chair, locked her in, forced and locked her jaw open, and stuck a clear tube down her throat. You could see the pipe moving down her neck. They cracked open some eggs, hooked up this funnel/nozzle contraption to the end of the pipe. They put the eggs into the funnel and pulled the nozzle to pull the eggs down into her stomach. After they fed her enough, they unstrapped her and quickly pulled the hose out so she can vomit, then they proceeded again. This happened every day.

    I'm pretty sure this is still how they do it.
    They'll probably force feed her using feeding tubes that go into the nose.

  30. Post #30
    The Feral Chicken formerly known as "El Pollo Diablo"
    RaptorBlackz's Avatar
    January 2008
    4,201 Posts
    Has happened to a cousin of mine, He wouldn't even eat a biscuit, He loved tomato sauce though.
    When he stayed over our house we made him eat or he couldn't do anything like play the computer..He's mother never really gave him discipline.

    Eventually they hooked him up to a tube and force fed him, He didn't really age that much because he never ate..He's 10 year old sister is bigger than him.
    He's all better now but he is still looks like a 8 year old kid.
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  31. Post #31
    Dennab
    May 2007
    1,218 Posts
    Has happened to a cousin of mine, He wouldn't even eat a biscuit, He loved tomato sauce though.
    When he stayed over our house we made him eat or he couldn't do anything like play the computer..He's mother never really gave him discipline.

    Eventually they hooked him up to a tube and force fed him, He didn't really age that much because he never ate..He's 10 year old sister is bigger than him.
    He's all better now but he is still looks like a 8 year old kid.
    I don't get what can make a child want to not eat. When I was a kid, I'd go run my ass off playing some tag and know "Hey I'm hungry, being full feels good, let's eat". From my understanding a lot of anorexia disorders can be worsened/caused by how the media portray beauty/women etc. I don't get how a kid could let the idea of skinny=beautiful into their heads.

  32. Post #32
    U.S.S.R's Avatar
    December 2010
    3,885 Posts
    it's funny that this is technically a human rights violation lmao
    I do like it when unconditionally existent rights are violated (for a non-genocidal murderous horrible cause) and nothing is done about it. I guess I am a bad person for that and I am absolutely stupid for posting this here. Anyway, as long as she does say that she wants to live, I suppose that is good enough to constitute for consent for that.

  33. Post #33
    Dennab
    February 2012
    2,299 Posts
    here it is:

    (might be nsfw for some)

    Ugh, keep your jaw locked shut and breathe through your teeth.

  34. Post #34
    Gold Member
    H4ngman's Avatar
    April 2007
    2,801 Posts
    anorexia is a disorder and therefore needs to be treated. Anyone would stop any suicidal individual in his intentions without any moral concerns. A life needs to be saved in any situation, unless it is a necissary self-sacrifice. Suicide to escape a certain situation just shows the need for others to help, since the person affected can't deal with things himself anymore. No life is worthless or messed up enough to throw away, unless you are terminally ill and anorexia is a mental condition that requires treatment and unless she is a disfigured deaf, blind, paralised quadruple amputee rape victim with all her friends and family killed there is noting wrong with her life that calls for her death, just something that desperately calls for people to help her, and averting her death is the first step.
    So, nothing morally difficult about this, this person needs help and she got it. Now get her back on track.
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  35. Post #35
    U.S.S.R's Avatar
    December 2010
    3,885 Posts
    anorexia is a disorder and therefore needs to be treated. Anyone would stop any suicidal individual in his intentions without any moral concerns. A life needs to be saved in any situation, unless it is a necissary self-sacrifice. Suicide to escape a certain situation just shows the need for others to help, since the person affected can't deal with things himself anymore. No life is worthless or messed up enough to throw away, unless you are terminally ill and anorexia is a mental condition that requires treatment and unless she is a disfigured deaf, blind, paralised quadruple amputee rape victim with all her friends and family killed there is noting wrong with her life that calls for her death, just something that desperately calls for people to help her, and averting her death is the first step.
    So, nothing morally difficult about this, this person needs help and she got it. Now get her back on track.
    That is a partly moral issue, though. Some people think that the value of a person's life is determinable, or the absence of the willingness to live constitutes a right to suicide. I guess it is common sense to most, but it still is a debatable issue to some.

  36. Post #36
    Gold Member
    H4ngman's Avatar
    April 2007
    2,801 Posts
    That is a partly moral issue, though. Some people think that the value of a person's life is determinable, or the absence of the willingness to live constitutes a right to suicide. I guess it is common sense to most, but it still is a debatable issue to some.
    It says she does not even seek death, just not eat or be fed. That is not even a suicidal intention, that is a unreasolable, loony intention. If I said I'd jump into a vulcano because I enjoy the heat and thrill of it, noone in his right mind would say "It's his life and his decision, so we can't restrain him". Once again, Anorexia is a mental disorder and the will not to eat is the symptom. It's not like she decited to kill herself because her life is terrible, she is okay if she dies as a result of her obsession with not eating. If a obsession turns lethal, bring the person to reason, but as of now, averting her death takes priority.

  37. Post #37
    U.S.S.R's Avatar
    December 2010
    3,885 Posts
    It says she does not even seek death, just not eat or be fed. That is not even a suicidal intention, that is a unreasolable, loony intention. If I said I'd jump into a vulcano because I enjoy the heat and thrill of it, noone in his right mind would say "It's his life and his decision, so we can't restrain him". Once again, Anorexia is a mental disorder and the will not to eat is the symptom. It's not like she decited to kill herself because her life is terrible, she is okay if she dies as a result of her obsession with not eating. If a obsession turns lethal, bring the person to reason, but as of now, averting her death takes priority.
    I do suppose you're right about that, although there are still people out there who'd blatantly state that she has the 'right' to not eat, even if she wishes to live and fight against her disorder.

  38. Post #38
    I do it all
    fruxodaily's Avatar
    November 2010
    14,209 Posts
    Either way is morally good
    Yeah, someone who wants to live but simply can't make decisions for herself should be totally let to die...

  39. Post #39
    Gold Member
    W00tbeer1's Avatar
    July 2008
    3,130 Posts
    Whether the decision was to let her die or force feed her it would be controversial, and I believe he took the lesser of the two evils.

  40. Post #40
    Maestro
    PelPix123's Avatar
    August 2006
    2,252 Posts
    Anorexia usually has an underlying psychological cause. They should help her find out what it is.