[Greenen72]

seriously, if a male official calls someone a cunt, it should be about him being a dick, not about him being a woman-hating conservative

[Protocol7]

yawmwen posted:

Here, it's like the worst thing you can call a person. Cunt is the only word absolutely unacceptable for any conversation.

Nobody cares about "here"

this happened in the US. It doesn't matter what meanings and weight a word has in your country.

[Thlis]

I am more angry because this is an inappropriate thing to say in politics rather than whether or not this is misogynous.

In the end whether or not this was meant to be misogynous is based upon what Frank Foster intended, but that does not make it any less inappropriate.

[Dori]

Greenen72 posted:

seriously, if a male official calls someone a cunt, it should be about him being a dick, not about him being a woman-hating conservative

does calling somebody out for being a misogynist make you uncomfortable? maybe you should call up your /r/mensrights buddies and talk to them about it. I worry about you

[yawmwen]

Protocol7 posted:

Nobody cares about "here"

this happened in the US. It doesn't matter what meanings and weight a word has in your country.

I live in the fucking US dude.

[Last or First]

yawmwen posted:

The fuck is everyone worked up about? He called some woman a cunt because she wouldn't stop mowing.

He was being a fucking asshole on his own time. What is everyone bitching about?

"Boo hoo people in the world are being douchebags someone please make them go away!"

When you and your co-representatives just made headlines because you silenced two female representatives for saying "vagina" and "no means no" in response to a bill severely restricting abortion (an issue affecting women, not men), people are going to notice when you call a woman a cunt and fake having a child (an autistic one at that) because you're upset that someone is mowing their lawn.

Greenen72 posted:

pretty sure when you call start calling someone a cunt, it's probably not because they're a woman. probably more along the lines of them getting you fired or crashing a car into you or something

But you're still using a derogatory term for female anatomy. Of course you're not going to just walk up to a random woman and call her a cunt (well, unless if you're Frank Foster, of course), but why use a female-centric term at all, instead of a more neutral one like "asshole", "piece of shit", "fuckwad", or "sheep-fucking shit-for-brains asswipe"?

[Cone]

Sanius posted:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cunt

that says that it can be a derogatory term for women, whereas "nigger" is exclusively used in a discriminatory context.

not that I doubt the guy in the story was being misogynistic, but your comparison isn't really very valid.

[Sobotnik]

Sanius posted:

does calling somebody out for being a misogynist make you uncomfortable? maybe you should call up your /r/mensrights buddies and talk to them about it. I worry about you

ad hominems are popular in these parts

[Greenen72]

Sanius posted:

does calling somebody out for being a misogynist make you uncomfortable? maybe you should call up your /r/mensrights buddies and talk to them about it. I worry about you

yeah sorry sometimes i get a little sad that i cant help but laugh and join in when my father calls my mom a cunt at least twice a day so i go online and pretend i dont

Last or First posted:

But you're still using a derogatory term for female anatomy. Of course you're not going to just walk up to a random woman and call her a cunt (well, unless if you're Frank Foster, of course), but why use a female-centric term at all, instead of a more neutral one like "asshole", "piece of shit", "fuckwad", or "sheep-fucking shit-for-brains asswipe"?

Can't really help that cunt has a pretty good way of letting you express your anger, although 'piece of shit' is kind of close

[Protocol7]

yawmwen posted:

I live in the fucking US dude.

well my bad

regardless I am led to believe that "cunt" is usually inoffensive to men unless used in a professional environment

[Dori]

Greenen72 posted:

yeah sorry sometimes i get a little sad that i cant help but laugh and join in when my father calls my mom a cunt at least twice a day so i go online and pretend i dont

what?

[Greenen72]

-

[yawmwen]

Protocol7 posted:

well my bad

regardless I am led to believe that "cunt" is usually inoffensive to men unless used in a professional environment

Different regions man. In the UK cunt can be said as a joke. In my area the word cunt is matched in offensiveness only by the words nigger and spic. In your area it might be a bit more loose.

[Protocol7]

yawmwen posted:

Different regions man. In the UK cunt can be said as a joke. In my area the word cunt is matched in offensiveness only by the words nigger and spic. In your area it might be a bit more loose.

Well it's Michigan, I would imagine either way "cunt" is offensive esp. to women

[Zillamaster55]

Sanius posted:

does calling somebody out for being a misogynist make you uncomfortable? maybe you should call up your /r/mensrights buddies and talk to them about it. I worry about you

Aren't you a shining pinnacle of a great poster?

[SigmaLambda]

Sobotnik posted:

says who

me, a man, who has never suffered a day of genuine discrimination in my life. unlike misogyny, misandry isn't a vast social ill which detrimentally affects the lives of countless people; it doesn't exist outside of backwater blogs on the internet.

Edited:

Webby2020 posted:

Calling somebody a "Bitch" is an insult to women. Cunt is a general insult.

Not in the United States it isn't.

[JohnnyMo1]

Protocol7 posted:

i've never heard men call each other cunts in a serious argument

it's more like getting splashed with water and being like "oh johnny you cunt"

:C

[Sobotnik]

SigmaLambda posted:

me, a man, who has never suffered a day of genuine discrimination in my life. unlike misogyny, misandry isn't a vast social ill which detrimentally affects the lives of countless people; it doesn't exist outside of backwater blogs on the internet.

who are you to say I've never encountered discrimination in my life, and therefore as a result i cannot comment on these things?

[Protocol7]

JohnnyMo1 posted:

:C

just don't splash me with water and we won't have any problems

Edited:

Sobotnik posted:

who are you to say I've never encountered discrimination in my life, and therefore as a result i cannot comment on these things?

How are you to know your discrimination was based on the fact you're a man?

[SigmaLambda]

Greenen72 posted:

seriously, if a male official calls someone a cunt, it should be about him being a dick, not about him being a woman-hating conservative

except, for someone raised in American society (I understand that the word's social context is different overseas), you can't call a woman a cunt without being a misogynist, in the same way that you can't call a black person a nigger and then pretend to not being a giant fucking racist.

it's an inherently sexist term because it is a gendered insult.

[JohnnyMo1]

Greenen72 posted:

seriously, if a male official calls someone a cunt, it should be about him being a dick, not about him being a woman-hating conservative

the cunts and dicks are just flying every which way

[Zillamaster55]

JohnnyMo1 posted:

the cunts and dicks are just flying every which way

Don't forget the assholes

[SigmaLambda]

Sobotnik posted:

who are you to say I've never encountered discrimination in my life, and therefore as a result i cannot comment on these things?

I'm not saying you can't comment; I'm saying anyone who complains about "misandry" in modern American society is crying big fat crocodile tears because, to reiterate: it's not a vast social ill which yadda yadda yadda

I honestly am not particularly compelled to care about whether or not "dick" is a misandrist term because, right now, in this time and place, misandry isn't a big problem. We can worry about that problem once we've gotten the big problems (the pay gap, employment discrimination, the conservative war on female reproductive rights [all problems of misogyny]) have been dealt with.

[Boba_Fett]

Fangz posted:

This is sad. A Democrat who used the words Vagina during an abortion debate gets a gag order, but if a Republican calls a woman a cunt walks off without any punishment.

Corruption at its finest.

That's a faulty comparison. Yelling at a neighbor is quite different than saying something on a televised debate.

[Sobotnik]

SigmaLambda posted:

I'm not saying you can't comment; I'm saying anyone who complains about "misandry" in modern American society is crying big fat crocodile tears because, to reiterate: it's not a vast social ill which yadda yadda yadda

I honestly am not particularly compelled to care about whether or not "dick" is a misandrist term because, right now, in this time and place, misandry isn't a big problem. We can worry about that problem once we've gotten the big problems (the pay gap, employment discrimination, the conservative war on female reproductive rights [all problems of misogyny]) have been dealt with.

Misogyny is a huge problem yeah, but it doesn't exclude misandry from existing, even if the latter is much rarer than the former.

[SigmaLambda]

Boba_Fett posted:

That's a faulty comparison. Yelling at a neighbor is quite different than saying something on a televised debate.

The venue doesn't matter: saying "vagina" should never have any repercussions at all. It's a fucking medical term.

Edited:

Sobotnik posted:

Misogyny is a huge problem yeah, but it doesn't exclude misandry from existing, even if the latter is much rarer than the former.

But's the fucking gist: we don't you need to bring up misandry in every single discussion about misogyny or feminism because MISANDRY ISN'T SOMETHING THAT VAST SWATHS OF THE WORLD'S POPULATION SUFFER AT THE HANDS OF.

you don't have to bother mentioning it. trust us: us getting involved with feminism doesn't delegitimize that one terrible, terrible time Susie from math called some boy a dick, so you don't have to bring it up as if it were some sort of "counterexample to the causes of feminism". It isn't.

[Aman VII]

Protocol7 posted:

i've never heard dudes call each other a cunt in any other form than a joke

it's an insult towards women. it is by nature misogynistic

You've clearly never listened to any aussie conversation

[SigmaLambda]

Aman VII posted:

You've clearly never listening to any aussie conversation

hey, guy:

Aman VII posted:

aussie

that's the disconnect: it's different in the United States

[yawmwen]

SigmaLambda posted:

But's the fucking gist: we don't you need to bring up misandry in every single discussion about misogyny or feminism because MISANDRY ISN'T SOMETHING THAT VAST SWATHS OF THE WORLD'S POPULATION SUFFER AT THE HANDS OF.

you don't have to bother mentioning it. trust us: us getting involved with feminism doesn't delegitimize that one terrible, terrible time Susie from math called some boy a dick, so you don't have to bring it up as if it were some sort of "counterexample to the causes of feminism". It isn't.

Um can't you say that misogyny itself helps perpetuate misandry? I mean you can look at examples like child custody. Women and men are viewed at as having two separate domestic roles, and those roles end up systematically persecuting both sides.

It can be caused by a patriarchy, but still demean men in a similar, if not fully analogous way.

[Boba_Fett]

SigmaLambda posted:

The venue doesn't matter: saying "vagina" should never have any repercussions at all. It's a fucking medical term.

Of course it shouldn't, but I think you missed my point completely.

[Protocol7]

yawmwen posted:

Um can't you say that misogyny itself helps perpetuate misandry? I mean you can look at examples like child custody. Women and men are viewed at as having two separate domestic roles, and those roles end up systematically persecuting both sides.

It can be caused by a patriarchy, but still demean men in a similar, if not fully analogous way.

Men are viewed differently by society but I would never call it misandry.

[SigmaLambda]

yawmwen posted:

Um can't you say that misogyny itself helps perpetuate misandry? I mean you can look at examples like child custody. Women and men are viewed at as having two separate domestic roles, and those roles end up systematically persecuting both sides.

It can be caused by a patriarchy, but still demean men in a similar, if not fully analogous way.

but that's not misandry. It doesn't root from any anti-male sentiment: it's men being collateral damage of misogyny.

I completely agree, and it's important point to note, that men can oftentimes be victims of misogynist attitudes themselves; but It's still misogyny that is at the core of those harmful attitudes.

[JaegerMonster]

Protocol7 posted:

i've never heard dudes call each other a cunt in any other form than a joke

it's an insult towards women. it is by nature misogynistic

Hahaha clearly you haven't been to Australia







cunt

[Turnips5]

Sobotnik posted:

who are you to say I've never encountered discrimination in my life, and therefore as a result i cannot comment on these things?

you've never experienced discrimination for BEING A MAN, is what he meant

although he could have worded it slightly better I guess

[Protocol7]

JaegerMonster posted:

Hahaha clearly you haven't been to Australia







cunt

oh my god you can't be serious

[JaegerMonster]

Australian culture 101: "oi, cunt" is an acceptable alternative to "hello"

[SigmaLambda]

For example, in that domestic roles example you used, both domestic role stereotypes are prescribed by misogynist attitudes. Sexism against women dictates that they, supposedly being the less powerful sex, have to stay at home and raise the family, and the same sexist attitude against women (they are less powerful/capable) leaves men to fill in the gap and leave the home to do labor to provide for the woman.

Both sexes are ultimately harmed (via being restricted to certain domestic roles) by a single, anti-woman social attitude.

Edited:

Turnips5 posted:

you've never experienced discrimination for BEING A MAN, is what he meant

although he could have worded it slightly better I guess

he very well could have experience prejudice, but not discrimination of any meaningful sort.

[JeanLuc761]

SigmaLambda posted:

For example, in that domestic roles example you used, both domestic role stereotypes are prescribed by misogynist attitudes. Sexism against women dictates that they, supposedly being the less powerful sex, have to stay at home and raise the family, and the same sexist attitude against women (they are less powerful/capable) leaves men to fill in the gap and leave the home to do labor to provide for the woman.

Both sexes are ultimately harmed (via being restricted to certain domestic roles) by a single, anti-woman social attitude.

Interesting way to look at it; might help explain why women tend to receive favor when it comes to divorce trials (especially custody) and other legal problems.

[Sobotnik]

SigmaLambda posted:

But's the fucking gist: we don't you need to bring up misandry in every single discussion about misogyny or feminism because MISANDRY ISN'T SOMETHING THAT VAST SWATHS OF THE WORLD'S POPULATION SUFFER AT THE HANDS OF.

you don't have to bother mentioning it. trust us: us getting involved with feminism doesn't delegitimize that one terrible, terrible time Susie from math called some boy a dick, so you don't have to bring it up as if it were some sort of "counterexample to the causes of feminism". It isn't.

Yes, but in my original post I was pointing out that Sanius stating that misandry does not exist is a fallacy. I think that Misogyny is a real and serious problem, but to state that misandry (A much smaller problem in comparison) does not exist is bad too.

[ThePinkPanzer]

bluesky posted:

Fuck my state seriously. Look at this conservative facebook page too for my state, filled with the biggest idiots I've ever seen, look at this (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Michig...15226298495220) here's a quote from one of their statuses "Liberals tell rapists, women don't have the right to be armed against their attacks. A liberal is the best friend of a rapist. Yet it's the conservatives who have a 'war on women'?"

Grabbed from that page