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Post #1
http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/...damental-level
I DID NOT MAKE THIS
I assume most of you have seen this, If not I thought I would bring it here for discussion as some butthurt fag mods locked it.
I for one agree 100% percent with this.
Pro-Tip: If you don't agree with this, You don't know shit about video games.
(User was banned for this post ("Crap thread" - Craptasket))
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I personally don't agree about changing the difficulty mid-game being stupid. It's stupid if people use it, yes, but just because it's an option doesn't mean you HAVE to use it.
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if you dont agree with this YOURE WRONG
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Alternatively play hardcore mode.
I'd like to see you complain that it's "too easy".
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The thread part of the thread is bad on a fundamental level.
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he's kinda right, dig a hole in the ground and youre safe from mobs forever. and having to rely on the wiki because the game doesn't explain anything is retarded.
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I actually spent a while trying to find a mod that lists items you can craft in-game, like a crafting book or something. Is there one that actually does that or will I just have to always have the wiki open?
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Hardcore mode or at least the idea of it is flawed in my opinion.
The system Indev had was fantastic. You save the game every so often, and if you die then tough shit, you died. Go reload an earlier save. The current system of dying, respawning and just running back to your items to pick them up or walking over to your super safe house is just.. eh. It doesn't feel like survival. There is no penalty for dying unless you die in lava or something, meaning you lose a few items.
All "hardcore" mode does is make dying more annoying. Let's say you've just finished building that awesome house you always wanted, picked up a full set of diamond tools and armour and just finished placing the last block in the solid gold wang you build in your front lawn. Suddenly you fall into a hole and die. With hardcore mode that's it. Done. Everything is gone, good day, see you next time. Non hardcore worlds are just as bad - "oh no i died let me walk from my spawn to my house lol okay everything's back to normal :)))))". It makes a singleplayer game built around the idea of survival either not have actually, y'know, surviving as its core component or make it ridiculously over punishing if a random mob lands on your head in a cave.
I know plenty of people who'd rather just chuck themselves off a cliff when their hunger meter empties than actually go and look for food. Don't get me wrong, hunger was a step in the right direction sure but it's just a nuisance when dying is much more convenient in non hardcore mode worlds. In hardcore mode, hunger poses a legitimate issue, but when death is just so ridiculously annoying it's almost not worth playing hardcore to be honest.
Why not instead of having this all-or-nothing system with how much dying actually affects gameplay do it how pretty much every other game ever does it - if you die, reload from an earlier point when you weren't dead. This would require a bit of restructuring for the save files but as a programmer I can tell you it's more than possible. Tediously simple in fact, and it would vastly improve ( I believe ) the survival aspect of "survival" mode.
Fuck, keep hardcore mode, just give me some kind of middle ground for christ's sake.
Edited:
Risugami's recipe book, or the crafting book mod.
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5 seconds in google:
http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/...thing-updated/
it's above the shelf mod.
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It's really just the Endermen that are tough, and that's going by the mistake of going out unarmored.
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hardcore is great because at any moment you could lose everything. though youre right. when you die, that should be it and you should have to load a earlier save.
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Reading that thread made me see how bad Minecraft vanilla is, and how good it could be.
So many damn things that could be, or should be added, but no.
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While I agree, Minecraft's survival gamemode actually doesn't involve survival, the OP sounds like a douchenozzle in his post and totally destroyed a feasible argument. Minecraft could be much more fun if it was much more difficult, much more complex, and much more realistic. (while still retaining the blocky look to keep the "art style" it's famous for.
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I kind of get the feeling reading that that he... wants to be playing a different game.
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I agree with about half of what he says. Changing the other half would be changing was minecraft is as a game.
The biomes and world generation could use improvement, but I don't want to see 20 new weapons introduced.
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i would like to see some melee weapon with longer range and less damage though... maybe a shield.
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you're actually wrong and you can't force your stupid opinions upon people, where did your ego and merit come from, thin air?
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I honestly don't think a lot of what he said is wrong, rather how he came across in the OP made him seem stupid. I mean, look at these suggestions:
Honestly, though some of his ideas are bad, a good lot of them are actually very good. It just seems like a large amount of players here are afraid of change in Minecraft. Honestly, the game is piss easy as it is, and more aspects and complex gameplay would really make it more fun. I mean, everyone begged for Jeb to reintroduce the complex brewing, but nobody likes the idea of more complex and rewarding combat and mobs that are actually scary? I feel like you're just bandwagoning on this guy now.
Sums up most people's opinions on the game nicely.
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he has a couple good points, the game needs a tutorial/good ways to actually learn things/etc, but most of his post is autistic whining that the game isnt exactly how he wants it.
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It's a very good list, and most things on there would vastly improve the game. But locking difficulty should be reserved for Hardcore tbh.
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Last I checked, complaining that the main feature of the game lacks the content that was promised to us when we bought it isn't autistic. You fail to remember the huge amount of fuss the Minecraft forum here has made because vanilla MC lacks content. His complaints are justified. MC is a game that split into multiple directions but never added a proper amount of content in any one direction. What we have is a game, that 3 years in the making is still not complete, with the core gameplay elements still shallow as hell even after all this time.
MC gets boring, not because of the lack of items, world, blocks, or mobs, but because of the lack of unique things you can find or do with those items and blocks. I mean, the game is bland as fuck, with only two real things to do, build or survive. Survival is a joke because you literally don't have to do very much to survive. MC survival needs to be much, much, much harder, and gameplay needs to be much more complex without being too much. I mean, at this point, DayZ is a better survival game than MC.
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I agree with pretty much all of this. Sure, I could see slight tweaks in his ideas, but I think if Minecraft was like this the game would be amazing.
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I agree with a lot of his points. I would like to see mobs be able to do more thank walk straight toward the player and attack them. I've said for a long time that hardcore mode should bring with it zombies that can break down wooden doors, break glass and dirt, spiders that can dig through dirt, creepers that will blow up at your walls, etc.
That and the fact that I can avoid all danger by simply building my house and making it flying.
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He's also incorrect about mob health being increased from difficulty. It's only damage and damage effects - for example, cave spiders' poison lasts longer the higher the difficulty, but a lot of his points are interesting. Locking difficulty should be reserved for hardcore only, but they should do what they did with xbox and make it so you can only change it at the world load screen, not when you're slashing down in the caves and decide you want to despawn everything.
Edited:
Except on Creative, where difficulty should be freely changable.
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Minecraft in its current state is objectively bad, don't deny it.
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Objectively bad would imply that the game does not function. Your opinion is not objective.
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grape soda, that guy's post makes a lot of fantastic points, but he (and you) come off too aggressive
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I really don't get half of the things he's saying here, for example:
No, it doesn't. It's really not that hard to figure out how to craft most things, I mean, a torch, a stick with a piece of coal on top.
That would just ruin it in my opinion, it doesn't need any sort of tutorial, you can pretty much figure everything out for yourself.
Quite frankly, I agree that the difficulty may need some improvements.
Well, what else do you expect? All the other things he listed are basically the same as the other tools just aesthetically different.
Of course, with the utmost carefulness, the whole grabbing ideacould be a good feature (I believe there's already a mod that features this)
The only thing I don't like is the whole enchantment and potions thing, but it's an interesting feature.
Steve looks fine, get a different skin if you really don't like him.
Trees could be taller, and in the picture he showed:
They do actually look a lot better, although, it''s very awkward chopping them down at that height.
No, that'd be stupid.
Of course though, that's all just my opinion.
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I like point 7a because it applies to this guy. People who come up with these lists don't seem to know jack shit about making an accessible game or game design in general. The only point I really agree on is reliance on the wiki.
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I guess I was a bit TOO mean...
Just wasted potential in a game like minecraft really makes me angry.
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I'm kind of glad vanilla Minecraft is so plain, actually. The early beta version of Minecraft was a solid base that modders greatly expanded upon in a wide variety of ways. Most of Mojang's attempts to expand upon that base have been poorly thought out and not very useful by comparison. A lot of Mojang's more recent stuff seems like useless clutter that you can't get rid of and doesn't fit together with the rest of the game. Jeb doesn't seem any better at avoiding this than Notch did, despite his vastly superior work ethic. All the mods that ended up in an official Minecraft release did so missing some of the features the mods they were based off of had, I don't understand how that even happens! The one thing they could do is add to the things that are so useless that even the modders don't don't know what to do with them, but they hardly ever do that. There's so much focus an what aren't already there that the things that are often get left untouched.
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Imagine you were someone who just picked up the game with no idea on how to play it. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't guess most the crafting recipes. The game almost forces you to look up wiki pages or have good knowledge of the game before doing anything. Games should be able to be picked up and played quickly without having to do research about it. At least that is how I see it.
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As someone who has spent time modding Minecraft, it's an awful base to start off with. The code is messy as hell and incredibly poorly done. When Minecraft gets an API similar to, for instance, Garry's Mod, that will be acceptable, but for now it's not. Currently, modding a server is a hell of a lot of work, and your playerbase will have to be redirected to a place they can get the mod files from. If they can get it working like they say they are, with servers that could download the mods' files to the user and only have those files on that server, then I'll be happy with what Minecraft is.
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Hes right about the crafting recipes. A whole lot are senseless. Like shears, its just two pieces of iron which makes no sense, you can even see on its icon that there's more to it than just iron. Or Fencegates, TNT, maps, pistons, redstone lamps, cakes, or brewing recipes.
Minecraft is about experimentation, and that should still be a factor. If you didn't know how to make a crafting bench, four wood in your inventory crafting slot is going to come across your mind eventually. But this isn't the case every time.
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Besides, if you don't use the wiki, you likely won't know 90% of the items exist. He's right, there should be a book that shows every item that you can make, but not the recipe. Or maybe some Encyclopedia option in the pause menu?
Edited:
Just read all of it. At first when I read the Facepunch OP, I thought it would be some stupid rant, then when I read the Minecraft Forum post, it was a well thought out, articulate, and great criticism of the game. I would love for all of these things to happen. (Except for the tall trees, because I would hate to cut those down)
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Simple, just have trees fall over when you chop them.
Edited:
The only reasons log continue floating is because Notch was lazy, it was never meant to be a feature.
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What about a recipe book that lists all the items, a brief description of the item and just the number of each element involved (or even less, just which elements are involved). That way, there is still experimentation as far as how to arrange the elements (or for the latter, how much of each and how to arrange). Ideas?
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The fun in Minecraft isn't in finding out how to make things using their recipes. I've heard a lot of opposing opinions on what people enjoy about Minecraft, but frustratingly trying to figure recipes out on the first go has never been one. I think when people list "no Wiki reliance" as a goal for MC, I think they really just (at least deep down) want a game that is difficult, with unique and rewarding gameplay and items. Like I said, having to figure out recipes won't add to the sense of wonder or reward, making those items difficult (and the game in general) to get will make it much more rewarding.
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I like how he pulled the 'true gamers' card near the end followed by needless obscenities.
This guy needs to realize that Minecraft's target audience isn't 'Mr. Man McMasochist'.
He does make a few good points, but he seems to be the typical 'Remove player choice because I have no self-control.' guy.
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The few aspects that he suggested to remove self control are flawed, yes, but honestly, I still see how some of those aspects are still noteworthy. For instance, Hardcore becomes even more difficult when you realize there is no way to change difficulty. I also don't think he's trying to be "masochistic" just because he thinks Minecraft is too easy. To be honest, it is. It's piss easy. There's literally no challenge whatsoever to the gametype that is called "Survival". I don't think it's masochistic to want mobs to be intelligent and a "Survival" gamemode to actually be difficult, and not just creative that takes a bit more time.
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