[Dr. Doughnut]

Sardonus posted:

to add to this argument,

when you're playing TF2, do you ever ask why the Atomizer gives a third jump?
Why does Natasha make people slower?
Why does the Backburner do crits from behind?
Why does the Black Box give health back?

Probably not.

So... why is it essential that everything needs to be explained? Can't we just say "It's magic, we ain't gotta explain shit" and then just focus on modelling cool weapons?

So far, nearly every concept involves Syringes. I do not want Syringe fortress 2.

Well, the Black Box makes sense in the fact that it doesn't explain it.

Shoot, page king.

[Constructor]

Fitting?

[Lobster_fists]

01271 posted:

If we get the grordbort pack before the contest ends you can be sure that I'll make use of the inevitable new anims in my concept.
It's just that the crossbow's style is not-spytech in my opinion. It would also make sense to have more syringe guns as primaries instead of a crossbow, the heavy's got a lot of miniguns and they don't stray too far from the original.
Heavy gets more miniguns, medic gets more syringe guns... This one just happens to have an automated reload button (40% speedier reload!) and much longer and wooden "needles" (still launches arrows!).

I'm not complaining that the medic has too many syringe guns(though a non syringe primary would be nice), that would be like saying the pyro has too many flamethrowers, I'm saying that your concept doesn't really fit what the Classic Update's going for, in my opinion. Instead of sidestepping the fact that it's a crossbow and trying to make it look like another syringe gun, why not embrace that fact that it's a radically different primary, and actually make it look like a crossbow? Something like the might work, just replace the scope with an air canister or vial of poison/medicine to fit the reload animations, and change the colors a bit to match the tf2 art style


Edited:

Constructor posted:

Fitting?

Kinda early to judge, really, but it certainly will if textured well.

Edited:

Sardonus posted:

to add to this argument,

when you're playing TF2, do you ever ask why the Atomizer gives a third jump?
Why does Natasha make people slower?
Why does the Backburner do crits from behind?
Why does the Black Box give health back?

Probably not.

So... why is it essential that everything needs to be explained? Can't we just say "It's magic, we ain't gotta explain shit" and then just focus on modelling cool weapons?

So far, nearly every concept involves Syringes. I do not want Syringe fortress 2.

I always thought that the atomizer was made out of radioactive materials, granting the scout even stronger calf muscles in exchange for health. I don't really think stats fitting weapon design should be a priority. If it does, great! If not, alas. I honestly don't mind as long as the design fits the game.

[Deodorant]

Sardonus posted:

to add to this argument,

when you're playing TF2, do you ever ask why the Atomizer gives a third jump?
Why does Natasha make people slower?
Why does the Backburner do crits from behind?
Why does the Black Box give health back?

Probably not.

So... why is it essential that everything needs to be explained? Can't we just say "It's magic, we ain't gotta explain shit" and then just focus on modelling cool weapons?

So far, nearly every concept involves Syringes. I do not want Syringe fortress 2.

Sorry for self-quoting this again, but pretty much any counterargument I could make would boil down to a rewrite of this.

Deodorant posted:

I agree, coming up with items that explain their functions isn't as important as coming up with items that look good.
Nevertheless, I have two reasons for basing these concepts on the items' stats.

As cliché as it may sound, limitations are vital to creativity. If I think 'I have to design a weapon that looks cool', I just get a bunch of half-baked ideas and discard them. If I think 'I have to design a knife that freezes the victim upon backstab', I can come up with a technical idea and then refine it until I end up with a design that looks good.

I'm hoping that the items made in this thread, along with a selection of style-fitting items that have already been made, ends up being put together into a single giant mod for people who want a more classic TF2 look but don't want to navigate the jungle of pony reskins and expired links to find replacements for every single unfitting item in the game. A problem with such a mod, however, would be that remembering which model represents which item could be difficult. Models that make sense with the stats would make this much easier.


I agree with you about those explanations. I think the Black Box makes a kind of sense, too, though. From wikipedia:

Basically, stuff goes in, something happens that no one understands, stuff comes out. In the case of the weapon, the stuff that goes in is successful hits and the stuff that comes out is health.

Following the theme is important, making sense isn't. Those two things are, however, not mutually exclusive.

I don't think explaining stats is all that important. The last concept I drew did nothing to explain the stats. The Degreaser does in my opinion have one of the (if not the) best designs in the game. I think the Big Earner is a nicer knife than the stock one.

I do, however, not think explaining the stats does any harm either. I find it helpful for the reasons explained in the quote, and I don't see why anyone would take offense as long as I make sure to follow vanilla-esque esthetics. If you think I fail to follow vanilla-esque esthetics, the problem lies in you or me, not in the stat-explaining.

Needle overload is indeed a potential problem, but if we're aware of it and consciously try to avoid it, I think we'll be fine. My first drafts for the Candy Cane and Conniver's Kunai did indeed contain needles, but I omitted them for exactly that reason.


Ah, and I thought of something.

Damian0358 posted:

Well, they just gave him the Targe for the WAR! Update, right?

With that aside, I was thinking of a no wep at all idea for the Arabian Demo set.

Right fist for melee, left elbow for shield, worn out boots for the Booties and some kind of Scottish hat for the hat.

Equipping a shield doesn't change the actual arm animations very much or even at all, right? I think it would be pretty difficult to see the difference between a Sticky Launcher-wielding Demo with a melee equipped and an Elbow-wielding Demo with a melee equipped.
Would it work to rig a model of rolled-up sleeves and a more muscular forearm over the default arm?

[Quinnjdq]

Do you guys think the Atomizer needs a replacement? If so I would absolutely love to do that, always been a big fan of the set so transferring it to the art style would be fun.

[Eeshton]

Deodorant posted:

I like the Solemn Vow and was a bit sceptical to the talk about it being replaced, but you changed my mind. This thing looks great.

Also:



'Introducing the Spytron 4000 advanced disguise kit! It's conveniently small and looks like a perfectly inconspicuous Zippo lighter while not in use, but don't let its size fool you. This sleek telescopic antenna utilizes the most advanced in sensory technology to measure the body heat radiated from people in a twenty foot radius. In a mere 30-35 minutes it can gather enough data from someone to proje-OH MY GOD DID YOU JUST JAM IT INTO HIS SPINE!?'


EDIT: I just realized that the wire needs to be attached to the end of the thickest segment of the antenna, rather than the middle of it, to be plausible. That's a textbook example of immersion-breaking design right there. Watch and learn, kids.

[Constructor]

Eeshton posted:

needs bevels

lots of em

[Deodorant]

Eeshton posted:

This looks lovely!

Constructor posted:

Fitting?

This looks lovely, too, but what would it replace?

[Quinnjdq]

Still working on it and I am also doing the texture for the zippo knife. Texture looks a bit to full bright compared to what it actually does look like so I am going to screw with the phong for a bit.

[Pocket Medic]

Quinnjdq posted:

Still working on it and I am also doing the texture for the zippo knife. Texture looks a bit to full bright compared to what it actually does look like so I am going to screw with the phong for a bit.

Perhaps make the display look less perfect. Take an example from the Spytech computers littered around the maps, notably in 2Fort.

[Quinnjdq]

Pocket Medic posted:

Perhaps make the display look less perfect. Take an example from the Spytech computers littered around the maps, notably in 2Fort.

On it, I am still deciding whether or not to attempt to animate it or not.

[mphayes97]

too team colored. more silver.

[Jalcober]

Made that thing Hawf concepted.
http://p3d.in/2FuXj
Leaving the download link to the model here because I cant do UVs or textures because I am in japan atm.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34311597/manmelterclassic.zip
Do what you want with it.

[blaholtzen]

Quinnjdq posted:

On it, I am still deciding whether or not to attempt to animate it or not.

How about making it use the one from the dispenser (vmt and all) that's already animated

[Simski]

Model the lines and jigglebone them

[Quinnjdq]

mphayes97 posted:

too team colored. more silver.

What would I make more silver? I made it to the concept and honestly I don't really see a problem with the team coloring. Also thanks for the suggestion Blaholtzen, that makes it much easier.

[Deodorant]

If we're gonna nitpick on the heart monitor, I'd prefer a slightly darker and less saturated team color. Sort of like the cylinder thing on the medigun backpack.
Other than that, everything about the model and texture is wonderful.

Also, have some dumb backquoting:

Lobster_fists posted:

I'm not complaining that the medic has too many syringe guns(though a non syringe primary would be nice), that would be like saying the pyro has too many flamethrowers, I'm saying that your concept doesn't really fit what the Classic Update's going for, in my opinion. Instead of sidestepping the fact that it's a crossbow and trying to make it look like another syringe gun, why not embrace that fact that it's a radically different primary, and actually make it look like a crossbow? Something like the might work, just replace the scope with an air canister or vial of poison/medicine to fit the reload animations, and change the colors a bit to match the tf2 art style

While I do like the number person's crossbow replacement design, I think I like the idea of a spy gadget-esque crossbow even better.

[Killer monkey]

Any progress on the knife-trogen?

[Deodorant]

Do you guys think this would be fitting or not? I'm a bit skeptical myself, but it was the best I could think of.

[Takuat]

Deodorant posted:

Do you guys think this would be fitting or not? I'm a bit skeptical myself, but it was the best I could think of.

The problem with multi-class weapons is it's pretty hard to make the item fit both classes. This fits the Soldier but not the Demoman.

[Sergeant Dornan]

Quinnjdq posted:

Still working on it and I am also doing the texture for the zippo knife. Texture looks a bit to full bright compared to what it actually does look like so I am going to screw with the phong for a bit.

The way he's holding it in the first person view is a little odd. Are his fingers wrapped around the grip or are they clipping into the grip?

[mphayes97]

Quinnjdq posted:

What would I make more silver? I made it to the concept and honestly I don't really see a problem with the team coloring. Also thanks for the suggestion Blaholtzen, that makes it much easier.

Make the paint more beat up, more metal showing. After all, it IS a melee weapon.

[Venezuelan]

Sergeant Dornan posted:

The way he's holding it in the first person view is a little odd. Are his fingers wrapped around the grip or are they clipping into the grip?

The all class animations were designed for the Saxxy so they look shitty on everything else, Valve's fault.

[[Square]]

Quinnjdq posted:

Still working on it and I am also doing the texture for the zippo knife. Texture looks a bit to full bright compared to what it actually does look like so I am going to screw with the phong for a bit.

Just a few things, I think it would be best to have the antenna on the other side, as currently its on the side Medic hits with. I think the red is maybe too saturated/bright, maybe go for the red of the canister on medics backpack? Oh and please animate the screen it would look awesome!

[Damian0358]

Deodorant posted:

Sorry for self-quoting this again, but pretty much any counterargument I could make would boil down to a rewrite of this.


Following the theme is important, making sense isn't. Those two things are, however, not mutually exclusive.

I don't think explaining stats is all that important. The last concept I drew did nothing to explain the stats. The Degreaser does in my opinion have one of the (if not the) best designs in the game. I think the Big Earner is a nicer knife than the stock one.

I do, however, not think explaining the stats does any harm either. I find it helpful for the reasons explained in the quote, and I don't see why anyone would take offense as long as I make sure to follow vanilla-esque esthetics. If you think I fail to follow vanilla-esque esthetics, the problem lies in you or me, not in the stat-explaining.

Needle overload is indeed a potential problem, but if we're aware of it and consciously try to avoid it, I think we'll be fine. My first drafts for the Candy Cane and Conniver's Kunai did indeed contain needles, but I omitted them for exactly that reason.


Ah, and I thought of something.

Equipping a shield doesn't change the actual arm animations very much or even at all, right? I think it would be pretty difficult to see the difference between a Sticky Launcher-wielding Demo with a melee equipped and an Elbow-wielding Demo with a melee equipped.
Would it work to rig a model of rolled-up sleeves and a more muscular forearm over the default arm?

Well, what I was thinking about was that the elbow is thrusted more, so it looks kinda like running elbow attack.

[Deodorant]

Damian0358 posted:

Well, what I was thinking about was that the elbow is thrusted more, so it looks kinda like running elbow attack.

But do the shields even have custom animations? They just hang on to the Demomen's arms while they're wielding other weapons. Wouldn't making turning the shields into poses force whoever's doing it to make one such custom animation for every single primary/melee animation the Demoman has?

[Insaneicide]

Deodorant posted:

But do the shields even have custom animations? They just hang on to the Demomen's arms while they're wielding other weapons. Wouldn't making turning the shields into poses force whoever's doing it to make one such custom animation for every single primary/melee animation the Demoman has?

or just a blend

[Damian0358]

Deodorant posted:

But do the shields even have custom animations? They just hang on to the Demomen's arms while they're wielding other weapons. Wouldn't making turning the shields into poses force whoever's doing it to make one such custom animation for every single primary/melee animation the Demoman has?

Didn't think about it like that. Well, we could add something there to make it look like that or something?

[lilgamefreek]

Quinnjdq posted:

What would I make more silver? I made it to the concept and honestly I don't really see a problem with the team coloring. Also thanks for the suggestion Blaholtzen, that makes it much easier.

Maybe try making the plastic covers at the front and back silver and the main housing team colored?

At the moment, between the red cover, red buttons, red logo, and red monitor line, everything melts together a little. A silver front with red buttons and lines might help accent these smaller details.



course I didn't spend much effort color matching or anything, but here's a general idea.

[Totenkreuz]

Quinnjdq posted:

Still working on it and I am also doing the texture for the zippo knife. Texture looks a bit to full bright compared to what it actually does look like so I am going to screw with the phong for a bit.

Is that life line animated?

[Void Skull]

Killer monkey posted:

Any progress on the knife-trogen?

yeah, it's finished

[Quinnjdq]

lilgamefreek posted:

Maybe try making the plastic covers at the front and back silver and the main housing team colored?

At the moment, between the red cover, red buttons, red logo, and red monitor line, everything melts together a little. A silver front with red buttons and lines might help accent these smaller details.



course I didn't spend much effort color matching or anything, but here's a general idea.

I'd really rather not do that but I am trying my best to remove a good amount of the team colors.

still very WIP and I have a lot left to do.

[Void Skull]

Void Skull posted:

yeah, it's finished

i was kidding alright

calm your tits and shake your dicks



#based colors

[Eeshton]

last time i took advice from you on what to do with my dick it did not go well so no thank you

[Quinnjdq]

Void Skull posted:

i was kidding alright

calm your tits and shake your dicks



#based colors

I really preferred the light blue canister.

[Void Skull]

Quinnjdq posted:

I really preferred the light blue canister.

just you wait

i got plans for this thing

plans that'll make it work as something more than just a spycicle replacement

i call it

"the lethal injection"

Eeshton posted:

last time i took advice from you on what to do with my dick it did not go well so no thank you

you shut your whore mouth

i'm trying to run a business here

[Void Skull]

[Dr. Ethan Asia]

Void Skull posted:

BUT WHAT DOES IT SAY!?

[Humblerbee]

Dr. Ethan Asia posted:

BUT WHAT DOES IT SAY!?

THEN WHO WAS PHONE?!?

[Void Skull]

Dr. Ethan Asia posted:

BUT WHAT DOES IT SAY!?

i can't say

pie_tony will get mad at me

and even he doesn't know what it says