1. Post #201
    Person
    geel9's Avatar
    June 2008
    5,733 Posts
    i never said an infinite license is the same as an indefinite license, only that they're both licenses which grants you the right to transfer that license, indefinite or infinite, to another person
    Where does it say that it grants the "owner" of an INDEFINITE license the right to transfer it?

  2. Post #202
    Gold Member
    No Party Hats's Avatar
    October 2010
    13,051 Posts


    oh look it doesn't have any mention of "indefinite" i wonder why

  3. Post #203
    Gold Member
    hexpunK's Avatar
    August 2008
    15,646 Posts
    sorry i'm just in one o' them arguing moods, no hard feelings mang
    We cool. Angry arguments tend to do that.
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  4. Post #204
    quality poster
    Dennab
    August 2009
    12,242 Posts


    oh look it doesn't have any mention of "indefinite" i wonder why
    where does it say specifically that the ruling applies only to infinite licenses?

  5. Post #205
    Gold Member
    No Party Hats's Avatar
    October 2010
    13,051 Posts
    We cool. Angry arguments tend to do that.
    brofist


  6. Post #206
    Gold Member
    parket's Avatar
    May 2011
    1,168 Posts


    oh look it doesn't have any mention of "indefinite" i wonder why
    where does it say in the steam ToS that the license is indefinite is what I want to know!

  7. Post #207
    Gold Member
    No Party Hats's Avatar
    October 2010
    13,051 Posts
    where does it say specifically that the ruling applies only to infinite licenses?
    I dunno you tell me seeing as that's you and paraket's fucking argument.

  8. Post #208
    Character's Avatar
    April 2011
    781 Posts
    "Where the copyright holder makes available to his customer a copy tangible or intangible
    and at the same time concludes, in return form payment of a fee, a licence agreement
    granting the customer the right to use that copy for an unlimited period, that rightholder
    sells the copy to the customer and thus exhausts his exclusive distribution right. Such a
    transaction involves a transfer of the right of ownership of the copy. Therefore, even if the licence agreement prohibits a further transfer, the rightholder can no longer oppose the resale of
    that copy."

    read that and tell me it's not what I just said
    it's not what you just said. you stated that it said " a licence agreement granting the customer the right to use that copy for an unlimited period" is the same as " a licence agreement
    granting the customer the right to use that copy for an indefinite period" which is entirely false because the words are entirely different, and the document doesn't even hint at the fact that they apply to both.
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  9. Post #209
    Person
    geel9's Avatar
    June 2008
    5,733 Posts
    where does it say specifically that the ruling applies only to infinite licenses?
    Where the copyright holder makes available to his customer a copy tangible or intangible
    and at the same time concludes, in return form payment of a fee, a licence agreement
    granting the customer the right to use that copy for an unlimited period, that rightholder
    sells the copy to the customer and thus exhausts his exclusive distribution right. Such a
    transaction involves a transfer of the right of ownership of the copy.

  10. Post #210
    Ybbats's Avatar
    February 2012
    810 Posts
    god damn I'm so sick and tired of you going 'lol' and 'lmao' as if it adds to your argument at all, it makes you look like an entitled piece of shit.
    Wow, get frustrated when you're wrong much? You obviously don't know anything about legal contracts or anything related to software licensing, why are you here arguing over it? Take a law or business class, seriously. A high school class would explain much of the legal workings needed to understand this ruling.

  11. Post #211
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    October 2008
    1,912 Posts
    inb4 Valve gets pissed and closes everyones steam accounts

    there would be nothing we could do about it
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  12. Post #212
    Gold Member
    No Party Hats's Avatar
    October 2010
    13,051 Posts
    where does it say in the steam ToS that the license is indefinite is what I want to know!
    It says limited and terminable, you actually are dumb

    this argument is basically over because Kopimi is the only one capable of forming a decent argument against this.

  13. Post #213
    Character's Avatar
    April 2011
    781 Posts
    where does it say specifically that the ruling applies only to infinite licenses?
    "a licence agreement granting the customer the right to use that copy for an unlimited period"

  14. Post #214
    The EU ruling states it's now legal to sell software but says nothing about companies having to provide users with means to do so.
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  15. Post #215
    Character's Avatar
    April 2011
    781 Posts
    Wow, get frustrated when you're wrong much? You obviously don't know anything about legal contracts or anything related to software licensing, why are you here arguing over it? Take a law or business class, seriously. A high school class would explain much of the legal workings needed to understand this ruling.
    congratulations responding to the three page old comment I made to get his attention as he was ignoring me entirely.

  16. Post #216
    Gold Member
    No Party Hats's Avatar
    October 2010
    13,051 Posts
    The EU ruling states it's now legal to sell software but says nothing about companies having to provide users with means to do so.
    fucking this

    fucking winner of the thread case closed
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  17. Post #217
    Gold Member
    parket's Avatar
    May 2011
    1,168 Posts
    where does it say specifically that the ruling applies only to infinite licenses?
    it doesn't, they're interpreting steam having the right to terminate the license as somehow making the license indefinite, which by definition it does - problem is the ULA which Oracle provides this ruling was based off is exactly the same as the "indefinite" license steam gives and it's only used as a term because it's within the terms of the case.

  18. Post #218
    quality poster
    Dennab
    August 2009
    12,242 Posts
    I dunno you tell me seeing as that's you and paraket's fucking argument.
    um no.. our point is that whether or not the license is infinite or indefinite, the EU ruling still gives you the right to sell it, unless the EU ruling specifically says "this only applies to infinite licenses."

  19. Post #219
    Person
    geel9's Avatar
    June 2008
    5,733 Posts
    it doesn't, they're interpreting steam having the right to terminate the license as somehow making the license indefinite, which by definition it does - problem is the ULA which Oracle provides this ruling was based off is exactly the same as the "indefinite" license steam gives and it's only used as a term because it's within the terms of the case.
    "Just because the law didn't say something doesn't mean it didn't say it"

    Edited:

    um no.. our point is that whether or not the license is infinite or indefinite, the EU ruling still gives you the right to sell it, unless the EU ruling specifically says "this only applies to infinite licenses."
    Did you not read the part where it said "unlimited period?"
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  20. Post #220
    Gold Member
    parket's Avatar
    May 2011
    1,168 Posts
    It says limited and terminable, you actually are dumb

    this argument is basically over because Kopimi is the only one capable of forming a decent argument against this.
    well no i think i'm the only one who actually read up on the case at all and you're all tripping behind by using your own definition of words instead of their proper legal counterparts rofl
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  21. Post #221
    Gold Member
    No Party Hats's Avatar
    October 2010
    13,051 Posts
    um no.. our point is that whether or not the license is infinite or indefinite, the EU ruling still gives you the right to sell it, unless the EU ruling specifically says "this only applies to infinite licenses."
    maybe you haven't made the connection yet but in this context "Unlimited" and "Infinite" mean the same thing.

    Edited:

    well no i think i'm the only one who actually read up on the case at all and you're all tripping behind by using your own definition of words instead of their proper legal counterparts rofl
    you're saying rofl and kiting around a proper argument by using personal attacks and reversing our arguments

    you are the single worst debater i've ever met
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  22. Post #222
    RadioJoNES's Avatar
    July 2011
    559 Posts
    I can't believe that the majority of post in this thread is some guy who's too upset that he can't get steam games for cheaper than they already are.

    Couldn't you imagine all of the money companies would lose if people just bought a huge amount of their game during a sale and then sold them in some black market way for silly hats?

  23. Post #223
    Gold Member
    parket's Avatar
    May 2011
    1,168 Posts
    The EU ruling states it's now legal to sell software but says nothing about companies having to provide users with means to do so.
    well they'll need to or next time they ban someone for selling their account they're gonna be in deep poop

    Edited:

    you're saying rofl and kiting around a proper argument by using personal attacks and reversing our arguments

    you are the single worst debater i've ever met
    it's not my fault you literally can't comprehend what is happening
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  24. Post #224
    Gold Member
    No Party Hats's Avatar
    October 2010
    13,051 Posts
    well they'll need to or next time they ban someone for selling their account they're gonna be in deep poop
    no they dont

    regardless of what you say valve is immune to this and they wont get harassed for it gg you lose

    Edited:

    well they'll need to or next time they ban someone for selling their account they're gonna be in deep poop

    Edited:



    it's not my fault you literally can't comprehend what is happening
    "it's not my fault I don't have a proper argument so I need to attack you to keep any sort of footing!"
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  25. Post #225
    Gold Member
    parket's Avatar
    May 2011
    1,168 Posts
    no they dont

    regardless of what you say valve is immune to this and they wont get harassed for it gg you lose

    Edited:


    "it's not my fault I don't have a proper argument so I need to attack you to keep any sort of footing!"
    i've gave my argument, when you're out of high school and actually educated on the topic at hand like myself - when maybe you'll understand the terminology being used, hit me up!
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  26. Post #226
    Person
    geel9's Avatar
    June 2008
    5,733 Posts
    i've gave my argument, when you're out of high school and actually educated on the topic at hand like myself - when maybe you'll understand the terminology being used, hit me up!
    For such an expert in legal matters, you're not a very good debater.
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  27. Post #227
    Character's Avatar
    April 2011
    781 Posts
    i've gave my argument, when you're out of high school and actually educated on the topic at hand like myself - when maybe you'll understand the terminology being used, hit me up!
    and you still don't get it.

  28. Post #228
    Gold Member
    No Party Hats's Avatar
    October 2010
    13,051 Posts
    "My argument is broken and a reversal of yours, but now that you've exposed me I'm going to leave you with one final insult and then run for the hills before my reputation is ruined!"

  29. Post #229
    Gold Member
    parket's Avatar
    May 2011
    1,168 Posts
    there's not much to debate about when I post the full legal citation and you don't understand it unfortunately :(
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  30. Post #230
    Person
    geel9's Avatar
    June 2008
    5,733 Posts
    there's not much to debate about when I post the full legal citation and you don't understand it unfortunately :(
    there's not much to debate about when I post the full legal citation and you don't understand it unfortunately :(
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  31. Post #231
    Gold Member
    No Party Hats's Avatar
    October 2010
    13,051 Posts
    You couldn't understand that Steam is a rental service at heart, and because of that you lost brutally.
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  32. Post #232
    So let me get this straight: You are against second hand games in all shapes and forms and not just Steam?

    Well if so, I would give you points for at least not being hypocritical. It doesn't make the argument any more credible though. You have second hand music and film sales, why not games?
    You don't have digital second hand films or music.

    I don't oppose second hand games, music or films when the object in qustion is a disc, but it is absurd to argue the same should be true for digital products for any reason beyond consistency.

    If there was a way to ensure that the person who trades the game in didn't have the game backed up (like how you know the trader doesn't have a cloned copy of a TV), then I would support equal policy; there isn't so I don't.

    If this came to fruition, hell yeah I'd take advantage of it. But the fact that I will do it doesn't mean it should be done.
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  33. Post #233
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    October 2008
    1,912 Posts
    You don't have digital second hand films or music.

    I don't oppose second hand games, music or films when the object in qustion is a disc, but it is absurd to argue the same should be true for digital products for any reason beyond consistency.
    T
    If there was a way to ensure that the person who trades the game in didn't have the game backed up (like how you know the trader Tdoesn't have a cloned copy of a TV), then I would support equal policy; there isn't so I don't.

    If this came to fruition, hell yeah I'd take advantage of it. But the fact that I will do it doesn't mean it should be done.
    Games on discs can be backed up as well, and that's generally much easier than copying a steam game.

  34. Post #234
    SHADERS
    Legend286's Avatar
    October 2008
    10,024 Posts
    "WHHAAA I CAN'T SELL SOMETHING I DON'T EVEN OWN, HOPE VALVE GETS SUED!!"

    This thread in a nutshell.

    It's like going to blockbuster and renting a film, then going and selling it somewhere else thinking it's your legal right because you "paid" for it.
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  35. Post #235
    Gold Member
    No Party Hats's Avatar
    October 2010
    13,051 Posts
    "WHHAAA I CAN'T SELL SOMETHING I DON'T EVEN OWN, HOPE VALVE GETS SUED!!"

    This thread in a nutshell.
    you should see them sweet ass pictures he put on my FP profile because he lost, real pieces of art
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  36. Post #236
    Ybbats's Avatar
    February 2012
    810 Posts
    I can't believe that the majority of post in this thread is some guy who's too upset that he can't get steam games for cheaper than they already are.

    Couldn't you imagine all of the money companies would lose if people just bought a huge amount of their game during a sale and then sold them in some black market way for silly hats?
    Companies wouldn't actually lose money, they're not selling their games BACK to the developers, that would be a refund. You could argue they'd lose future sales, but again, you're making an assumption that these people would be buying the game from the developer if they weren't buying it used (which is not the logic people have in their minds to make them want to buy a used game in the first place) and if the sale is for less than regular market price, there's no way to know if they'd be buying it at all.

    And why is everybody so for standing up to protect the companies, which have their asses covered pretty well, and it's somehow stupid to be standing up to protect the consumers? Just the kind of fucked up, backward ass society we're being raised into.
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  37. Post #237
    SHADERS
    Legend286's Avatar
    October 2008
    10,024 Posts
    Companies wouldn't actually lose money, they're not selling their games BACK to the developers, that would be a refund. You could argue they'd lose future sales, but again, you're making an assumption that these people would be buying the game from the developer if they weren't buying it used (which is not the logic people have in their minds to make them want to buy a used game in the first place) and if the sale is for less than regular market price, there's no way to know if they'd be buying it at all.

    And why is everybody so for standing up to protect the companies, which have their asses covered pretty well, and it's somehow stupid to be standing up to protect the consumers? Just the kind of fucked up, backward ass society we're being raised into.
    The whole point of used games is that it's cheaper.

    People would buy it new if they couldn't buy it used.

  38. Post #238
    Gold Member

    June 2009
    8,467 Posts
    People don't seem to realize that you have literally 0 ownership of any of your games on Steam. When you buy a Steam game you're buying the right to play it, not ownership.
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  39. Post #239
    Gold Member
    No Party Hats's Avatar
    October 2010
    13,051 Posts
    People don't seem to realize that you have literally 0 ownership of any of your games on Steam. When you buy a Steam game you're buying the right to play it, not ownership.
    eeexactly

  40. Post #240
    Ybbats's Avatar
    February 2012
    810 Posts
    The whole point of used games is that it's cheaper.

    People would buy it new if they couldn't buy it used.
    Or they don't want to buy it at the price the developer is asking for... at ALL? So EVERY used sale automatically irrefutably equates to one lost sale for the publishers? That is so publisher logic.

    Edited:

    Wow, remember my first post? LEARN WHAT LICENSES ARE. ffs.
    You're making arguments against made up points nobody ever made in this thread. Is this how you were trained to argue?
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