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Post #81
Since when I condone Muslim violence? Your one-sideness on Islam and making it look like they're the only violent ones is moot when you neglect other religions and their bloody history.
Any kid can pull quotes from any other religious text and say that the religion is violent.
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Ignoring sonerin's horrible bigotry for a moment
Always consider the possibility that they're trying and just having a hard time with it. It may not always be true, but most immigrants would be very happy if they could easily learn to fit in. I agree that it is their responsibility to adapt, but they shouldn't be forced to do so at a certain speed or to a certain amount. If they want to avoid adapting in a certain way because it makes them uncomfortable, there's already going to be consequences they'll have to face, we don't need to give them more.
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You're ignoring his argument.
He's saying if people really did murder people solely based off their religious text, people would be getting murdered by religious people to this day.
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And what I am saying is Islam commands people to kill non-muslims, but since 80% of the Muslims didn't and don't read Qur'an to see these commands, most of them remain passive. And if they did read them, a lot of Muslims would drop their beliefs because of the contradictions and violent verses.
One-sideness? I don't talk about Christianity because I haven't studied it yet. Islam is something I've been living next to for years.
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You could say the same thing about Christians.
I know Christians who read the Bible, actually believe in it, and haven't killed me yet for not believing, or any others.
Your argument's tumbling apart because of your bigotry.
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So that means they don't follow the commands, what they are ordered to do. That means they're not following the rules, thus making them "Christians" who think they're Christians but don't follow what the Bible says. That's not how you're a Christian/Muslim. In order to be one, you have to follow everything your book says.
That's the whole point, the concept of religion is dumb. Especially Islam and Christianity. The way people follow it are dumb, too. And no, my arguement is not tumbling away. I am speaking simple facts with strong proof.
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so we're dismissing the existence of all sects and differentiated religions?
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Such as?
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you say you have to follow everything your book says if you are a christian or a muslim.
if that was true then Catholism and Baptism wouldn't exist, neither would Sufi-ism or Sunni-ism.
please tell me which sect has the correct interpretation of their religious book, and which sect is wrong.
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A religion is never true/correct to begin with, all Islamic sects are bullshit made on bullshit.
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okay yet say not following "the rules" means you're not a muslim or a christian?
according to you a muslim isn't a muslim if they don't kill people. if that is true then what the fuck are they?
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A Christian believes in Christ, and that he died for. Really, that's it.
There's loads of interpretations of it that I really don't agree with, but that's how it goes.
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Heh, My uncle emigrated to Britain from Iran during the 1979 revolution. He was a communist at the time a dirt poor. Now he provides healthcare in the UK and has met the prime minister and Prince Charles.
But yeah I guess you're right, people from africa and the middle east never amount to anything.
Edited:
Yup that's why we have Catholics, Protestants, Methodists, Baptists, Anabaptists, Anglicans, Lutherans, Calvinists, Orthodoxists, Pentecostalists, Adventists, Puritans, Presbytarians, Reformists, Jehovah Witnesses, Assyrianists, Christadelphians etc etc there are a bunch more I don't want to type out. They all read the same book and they all interpret it different ways.
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Persians are great people, Africans and such too. I'm not insulting anyone's country, I am just saying that a lot of African countries are unwealthy and people are uneducated because of low wealth. Middle East is about the same.
And like I said before, religions are never correct/true, so their sects are also bullshit since they're coming from the root religion (Christianity, Islam, etc.). The Catholic belief's falseness is just as the same with Protestanism. What I'm trying to say is, the root/main religion is violent. If you follow Qur'an, you are violent.
They are people who think they are Muslims. If you're not going to follow your religion's rules, then why would you call yourself the follower of a religion? (ie: a Muslim) If you call yourself a Muslim and don't bother following your Qur'an's rules, then you're not a Muslim, you're a fucking dumbarse.
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That's like saying we have to read through the entire end users' agreement in order for us to be good and loyal customers.
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You gave a bad example here. Let me give you a better one.
Calling yourself a Muslim/Christian before reading Quran/Bible is like calling yourself a mechanical engineer before studying mechanical engineery. It's plain dumb to call yourself a Muslim/Christian before knowing what your own religion is about, and to know what your own religion is about, you need to read your holy book.
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Does their title really matter?
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The problem with immigration is that many times the immigrants are willing, for many reasons, to work harder but more importantly work better than the local population, who feel out-competed out of things they do not deserve.
This creates conflict, which is bad
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multiculturalism destroys nations, fact
look at us, sweden, norway, france, germany, even mexico (which is even more colonized than the US)... pretty much the entire western world is being undermined by zionist immigration policy.
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A great man once said; If you are a dick, People shall mess with your title
January 2011
3,595 Posts
What the fuck are you going on about now.
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okay, so then you should be fine with dumbarse's entering your country because they aren't muslims.
problem solved.
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they seem pretty fine to me
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He has a point.
They are still dumbarses, so I'm afraid not.
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Then what exactly are you argueing?
That people who you consider stupid shouldn't be able to immigrate to a country?
What is the criteria for your immigration?
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If someone is dumb enough to even call himself a Christian/Muslim before reading their own holy book and knowing what their religion is about, then yeah, stay in your own country.
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Norway has the highest standard of living in the world doesn't it? I think they're pretty stingy about immigration already though.
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why
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are they incapable of being a functioning member of society if they don't read the bible or the koran? do they have no purpose other than what their holy book tells them?
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well you're just a bigot
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If they don't read the Bible or the Quran and then call themselves Christians or Muslims, then yes. It's like calling yourself a mechanical engineer before studying mechanical engineery.
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No, it's not. You're comparing a mechanical engineer to a spiritual belief. It's like saying that you're not allowed to be a liberal or a conservative without reading the texts that effectively spurred those movements.
Why do you care what they call themselves? Why are you the determining factor on what can or cannot be Christian? Many people have, in fact, read the Qur'an and simply leave it open to interpretation as many Christians do with their Bible. People who believe in the Qur'an aren't more stupid, and they have a moral compass as well, you know.
Also, why is it NOW a problem if they're Christian? You didn't mention that the first time you opened your bigoted mouth and said that Middle Easterners/Africans shouldn't move to whatever country you inhabit. There's no evidence saying that they're more poor than other people, and if they ARE poor when living there despite being having the same/more income as most immigrants, then that's a problem with integration into the country, not the people themselves. The government should be there to integrate the people correctly into society.
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I gave a perfect example. If you don't know what your religion is about, what you are supposed to believe in, what your rules are, then why do you tell people that you believe in this religion? (simply put, call yourself a Muslim?)
And what I'm saying about Christianity is; If a Christian calls himself a Christian before reading the Bible, he's just as dumb as a Muslim who calls himself a Muslim before reading the Qur'an.
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I'm saying it doesn't matter and doesn't make them stupid. Titles don't mean jack shit.
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Titles? What are you even talking about? And it does matter, you have to read your holy book before calling yourself a Muslim. Qur'an tells you what you're supposed to believe in, what your rules are, what you have to do, what is forbidden, what Islam is, et cetera. But calling yourself a Muslim without knowing a a single shit about Islam means you're so fucking dumb.
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Titles. The name, Muslim, doesn't really matter.
The thing is, you're ignoring my primary point. INTERPRETATION.
Many Muslims say that the violent texts are to be interpreted in self-defense. They should be used only in certain circumstances. Religion is more complex than what their holy book says, just ask anybody with faith.
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Not only racist, but generalising as heck. You're the one wasting my space by being discriminatory.
There should be a requirement of immigrants who want to live in this country so that they can help others.
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I'm fairly sure it's not a requirement of Muslims to murder people. For that reason, please stop getting your knowledge from imbecile extremists.
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Not necessarily. Unless you want to be an extremist.
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This thread isn't about religion.
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The Union Jack would look a shit ton better with a Hammer and Sickle in the middle of it
November 2007
6,744 Posts
so are you saying most muslims are fake or what, would you like me to cite the rape-inducing verses from the bible? last time i checked, most christians aren't rapists.
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Not necessarily? It's what your religion commands you to do so. If you go against your religion, then you're pretty much going against your own religion. That makes you a dumb religious person. It's like breaking the regular law and calling yourself a law abiding citizen.
And I'm not the one who brought up the religion topic.
Self defense?
Qur'an: Kill all non-muslims unless they convert into Islam.
Qur'an: Women are inferior to men.
The story of Umm Qirfa.
Do they sound any self defensive to you?
Yeah, they are fake.
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It's up to the individual if he's breaking the law or not. It's not your call as to whether he's a "lukewarm" muslim/christian, and quite frankly I don't care if they do not wholeheartedly submit to their holy books.
I only judge their perspective and not how strict they are as a religious person. I don't pick fights with "lukewarm" Christians.
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Sounds like you only respect religious people who are murderers and sexists.
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I think, as a nationalist trying to explain why you disprove immigration you won't get much appreciation if you only speak about the cultural impact on the country in question. Even if you think that reason is enough, they won't sadly.
Therefore you must also bring in the objective downsides of immigration. Like crime rate, economy and welfare.
As far as I know, Sweden don't keep any statistics of ethnicity in crime charts but I know Norway does, which also have the same large mass-immigration. This is a good explanation. And here is an interview about sexual crimes in Oslo and reported ethnicity of the offender. Norway had 840 reported rapes in 2006. Sweden had 4 749 reported rapes in 2007. And this is sexual crimes alone. You can find some very interesting statistics about other crimes too if you look at the charts. Economy has been reportedly declining.
Either way, whether immigration is good or bad for a country, it doesn't change anything in the country the asylum seekers migrated from. We don't make a noticeable difference. What I feel is that, with the huge amount of resources spent on immigration (in my country atleast), you could make a bigger difference by using these resources and make sure the country where these people come from gets the help they need, where they need it. Their nation/society isn't going to fix itself. Immigration only speeds up world poverty.
I'm against immigration, but I would gladly keep paying the same taxes if I knew the money went to localized help organisations.
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If you don't follow your religious book, don't do what it says, you're not a Muslim. That's the simple truth.
Then why would I be trying to prove that Islam is violent and it shouldn't be welcomed amongst us? ;)
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Here in Portugal we have a balanced immigration.
There are lots of Chinese, African, Eastern Euopean (these guys really work like hell and they get results), Brazilians and Indian people.
I'm not against it, I have lots of friends from those countries, specially Eastern Europeans, they are really nice.
But I feel there's a pattern of behaviour, if not a stereotype, that most immigrants kinda act for.
For example, chinese people are into commerce, indian people are usually asociated with selling useless junk or drugs... etc etc...
Also the statistics speak for themselves. Police commands complain about them since most of the criminals here in Portugal are Brazilian and the next majority of criminals are African. Most of them don't even look for work, they just get here and live of social benefits.
I think immigration is ok, but the law and control should be stricter. I love having diversity but I can't stand when foreigners disrespect our country as much as I don't like strange people in my home abusing my hospitality.
But hey, I'm just speaking for what I see here. I'm totally ok with foreigners here in general.
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It's nothing like that.
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Imagine if none of it was written down. If the religion existed only on word of mouth and in the minds of people.
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Does it make sense in that context for people to know everything about their religion?
