1. Post #161
    Gold Member
    James*'s Avatar
    July 2007
    8,320 Posts
    Also who needs militias when you have a standing army

    Unless you end up on the opposite side in which case you're pretty doomed anyway

    May as well suggest every household has its own nuke just in case

    Edited:

    Except those checks and balance's can fail
    Then fix it
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United Kingdom Show Events Dumb Dumb x 2 (list)

  2. Post #162
    Carnage2323's Avatar
    October 2009
    2,302 Posts
    Also who needs militias when you have a standing army

    Unless you end up on the opposite side in which case you're pretty doomed anyway

    May as well suggest every household has its own nuke just in case

    Edited:



    Then fix it
    Not as easy as you might like to think

  3. Post #163
    Gold Member
    Leo Leonardo's Avatar
    August 2007
    3,699 Posts
    Then fix it

    "But of course! I'll just mend it all back up in a jiffy, and come up with a foolproof system that can function for thousands of years, all right this fucking second!"

    Get real
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Agree Agree x 2 (list)

  4. Post #164
    Gold Member
    James*'s Avatar
    July 2007
    8,320 Posts
    Never said it was easy

    Where's the ambition

  5. Post #165
    I SHOULDN'T OWN A FIREARM
    GunFox's Avatar
    May 2005
    7,442 Posts
    Easily done with a bolt action rifle. I'm not against banning all guns, but I just don't see why semi/automatics are necessary for any civilian.
    *sigh*

    Okay quick and dirty version:

    2nd amendment to the US constitution, the one that protects gun rights, was slotted into the constitution as a failsafe on the US government. They never wanted the people to again be in a position where they couldn't protect themselves from a tyrannical government. The best way to do so was to permit the population to arm themselves. Harder to oppress a people who can shoot at you and all that.

    Self defense, on the other hand, was a given. Police were extremely rare and there was no method of summoning outside help in the event of a problem. As such, nobody even remotely questioned the right of the people to protect themselves from harm. Human problems aside, the United States was still a dangerous place in terms of wildlife as well. Firearms were simply a fact of life.

    So in reality, semi automatic rifles are some of the MOST protected firearms in our legal system because civilians are, by design, armed with weapons capable of killing men.

    Edited:

    Also who needs militias when you have a standing army

    Unless you end up on the opposite side in which case you're pretty doomed anyway

    May as well suggest every household has its own nuke just in case

    Edited:
    The revolutionary war was fought between the military and the people. Hence the reasoning for civilian militias.

    Then fix it
    We are trying. The system isn't exactly operating correctly at the moment, but it has hit the point where it is a self sustaining problem. Barring a major luck streak, we are likely pretty screwed.

    Oh no wait, we always have the option of revolution.

    The 2nd amendment exists so we CAN fix it when all else fails.

  6. Post #166
    SomePony's Avatar
    July 2012
    110 Posts
    Obviously god did it :)
    And that, FP, was how to get 91 dumb ratings!


    On next weeks episode, SomePony says something stupid in hopes of getting free gold status.

    Back to you.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Dumb Dumb x 1 (list)

  7. Post #167
    Gold Member
    trotskygrad's Avatar
    June 2011
    8,505 Posts
    I can see both sides of this argument being valid, but I'll ask, why do you think it isn't relevant? The threat of government stepping out of its bounds will always exist
    because your average citizen with an AR-15 is no match to a modern military with fighter jets, artillery and tanks.

  8. Post #168
    kill yourself
    Protocol7's Avatar
    June 2006
    25,820 Posts
    because your average citizen with an AR-15 is no match to a modern military with fighter jets, artillery and tanks.
    That's assuming the entire military will turn on the people.

    Most servicemen I know are required to, and will, say no when ordered to kill Americans
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Agree Agree x 1Disagree Disagree x 1 (list)

  9. Post #169
    Gold Member
    Boxbot219's Avatar
    September 2005
    2,266 Posts
    because your average citizen with an AR-15 is no match to a modern military with fighter jets, artillery and tanks.
    And that's why we had absolutely no trouble in the middle east.

    They weren't a match for us!

  10. Post #170
    I do it all
    fruxodaily's Avatar
    November 2010
    13,469 Posts
    Australians have gun control, guns kept within clubs which are only pistols and shotguns given to farmers because of obvious reasons (trespassers, sick animals etc.) if America had official gunclubs that offered people gun licenses so they're legally able to own a pistol or a shotgun that'd be better. Civilians don't need access to Military grade weaponry for tress passing. Gun licensees can be helpful for monitoring gun use and checking people who have them. Obviously I'd expect people to not have any mental disability before going for it for reasons such as them wanting to kill everyone there or harming themselves
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Disagree Disagree x 1 (list)

  11. Post #171
    Gold Member
    trotskygrad's Avatar
    June 2011
    8,505 Posts
    That's assuming the entire military will turn on the people.

    Most servicemen I know are required to, and will, say no when ordered to kill Americans
    nopenopenope

    read this thread on another forum for details

    http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php...19770#p3819770

    that post onwards

    Edited:

    And that's why we had absolutely no trouble in the middle east.

    They weren't a match for us!
    well we pretty much gained control... and imposed a nation in iraq
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Agree Agree x 1 (list)

  12. Post #172
    Gold Member
    NO ONE's Avatar
    April 2007
    3,190 Posts
    I can't say this enough.

    Everything happens for a reason.

    There are so many things, typically brushed off as insignificant, in everyday life that you connect to another thing, even when they are seemingly unrelated.

    You put you keys down and forget them, so you go get them. But then you find out you left a light on close to where your keys are. If you didn't forget your keys, you probably wouldn't have remembered the light. Yes you can argue against that, but I think my point has been made.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows XP United States Show Events Dumb Dumb x 1 (list)

  13. Post #173
    WhatAmI's Avatar
    June 2012
    1,563 Posts
    Australians have gun control, guns kept within clubs which are only pistols and shotguns given to farmers because of obvious reasons (trespassers, sick animals etc.) if America had official gunclubs that offered people gun licenses so they're legally able to own a pistol or a shotgun that'd be better. Civilians don't need access to Military grade weaponry for tress passing. Gun licensees can be helpful for monitoring gun use and checking people who have them. Obviously I'd expect people to not have any mental disability before going for it for reasons such as them wanting to kill everyone there or harming themselves
    I'm sorry but I live in Australia and our gun laws are unreasonable
    do you have any idea how difficult it is to get a licence, let alone how much money you have to spend to legally be able to safely store ammunition and firearms

    You will be required to purchase some big ass safe and I think you're supposed to keep your guns disassembled or something. I'd like to own a handgun and a bolt action one day, but with all the fuck around in my country that's never going to happen. I agree with the first part of your post though

  14. Post #174
    GAYLORD
    Wikipedia Vandilisation Contest Winner
    joe588's Avatar
    June 2005
    14,763 Posts
    For every single person killed in a firearm accident every year, roughly forty die from alcohol poisoning or alcohol-related liver failure (according to the CDC.)

    Alcohol has no practical applications that couldn't be replaced by other chemicals. It's mostly just for fun.

    If you're going to go after inanimate objects that are related to accidental death, guns are very, very far down on the list. After you factor in ownership rates, swimming pools are more dangerous than firearms.
    yeh dude I don't disagree, I was just mocking his dumb comparison. That said though, a gun being discharged accidently is more likely to cause a fatality than a chisel accident.

    Edited:

    I can't say this enough.

    Everything happens for a reason.

    There are so many things, typically brushed off as insignificant, in everyday life that you connect to another thing, even when they are seemingly unrelated.

    You put you keys down and forget them, so you go get them. But then you find out you left a light on close to where your keys are. If you didn't forget your keys, you probably wouldn't have remembered the light. Yes you can argue against that, but I think my point has been made.
    are you serious lol
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Linux United Kingdom Show Events Agree Agree x 1 (list)

  15. Post #175
    I SHOULDN'T OWN A FIREARM
    GunFox's Avatar
    May 2005
    7,442 Posts
    because your average citizen with an AR-15 is no match to a modern military with fighter jets, artillery and tanks.
    Because we haven't had any trouble at all with armed civilians or anything. What happens when an educated armed population decides it has had enough? What happens when their viewpoint isn't an extremist one, but rather a valid cause?

    Add to that the fact that military forces do indeed tend to defect when ordered to kill their own, the simple fact that the government doesn't ultimately work without the consent of the governed in our economic situation, and the presence of the national guard, and yes, a revolution within the United States
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows XP United States Show Events Agree Agree x 1 (list)

  16. Post #176
    Gold Member
    thisguy123's Avatar
    August 2008
    6,804 Posts
    It's not the people owning guns that piss me off... it's the way this thread has devolved from "A nutbag who got his hands on a weapon went on a rampage and people died!" all the way to a gun discussion and people waving their (Gun enthusiasts equivelant to e-peen goes here)

    To provide examples.

    bolt action .22s kinda generally suck

    I also love how they're calling an AR-15 an AK. I'm sorry, but an AK probably wouldn't have jammed.

    I love that the media thinks WASR-10's are AK's.
    I didn't say AK-47. It's an AKM with a different sear. the AK-47's receiver has almost nothing in common with the StG-44 either, except that they both use a long-stroke gas piston (which isn't anywhere near the receiver and has been used in a lot more rifles than the stg44 and the ak47)
    "high-capacity ammunition magazine"

    The police officers poor use of language makes him a laughing stock if you ask me

    "Oates said such a weapon would be able to fire 50 to 60 rounds a minute"

    Uh, no, you can fire a lot more than that. Try 300+ rounds per minute. I could pull off "50 to 60 rounds per minute" with a pump action rifle without trying very hard
    Now guns good or bad, this sort of thread Hijacking is EXACTLY as bad as someone coming in here and "bronying it up" (assuming the killer had some kind of MLP patch stitched inside his jacket or something) and as soon as anyone DARE mention that the discussion of their precious favoured hobby is not the sort of thing that should be talked about here you get all defensive and cry "retarded uneducated moron who knows nothing about guns!" and the such alike. It's just like Bronies saying "YOU DON'T WATCH THE SHOW SO YOU DON'T KNOW!"

    Me personally I care not for guns one way or the other, they can be a hobby like anything else (albeit a "potentially dangerous" one) but the end result is a man killed people and now people are suddenly getting all defensive and fearful that their precious hobby might get another bad mark to it's name.

  17. Post #177
    Dennab
    August 2011
    3,194 Posts
    I can't say this enough.

    Everything happens for a reason.

    There are so many things, typically brushed off as insignificant, in everyday life that you connect to another thing, even when they are seemingly unrelated.

    You put you keys down and forget them, so you go get them. But then you find out you left a light on close to where your keys are. If you didn't forget your keys, you probably wouldn't have remembered the light. Yes you can argue against that, but I think my point has been made.
    No, things don't always happen for a reason, things just happen and do things
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Disagree Disagree x 1 (list)

  18. Post #178
    Australians have gun control, guns kept within clubs which are only pistols and shotguns given to farmers because of obvious reasons (trespassers, sick animals etc.) if America had official gunclubs that offered people gun licenses so they're legally able to own a pistol or a shotgun that'd be better. Civilians don't need access to Military grade weaponry for tress passing. Gun licensees can be helpful for monitoring gun use and checking people who have them. Obviously I'd expect people to not have any mental disability before going for it for reasons such as them wanting to kill everyone there or harming themselves
    To buy and own certain weapons, you must have a license. They do background checks and the whole bit, the US isn't as ASS backwards as most foreigners believe.

    I can't say this enough.

    Everything happens for a reason.

    There are so many things, typically brushed off as insignificant, in everyday life that you connect to another thing, even when they are seemingly unrelated.

    You put you keys down and forget them, so you go get them. But then you find out you left a light on close to where your keys are. If you didn't forget your keys, you probably wouldn't have remembered the light. Yes you can argue against that, but I think my point has been made.
    Yeah uh, sorry to say; but that's bullshit; the human mind like to take things with little significance and connect them in pretty elaborate ways.

    Coincidences happen, you can loose your keys, only to find some box of childhood memories, but it IS only a coincidence.

    I suggest you pick up "The Believing Brain" By: Michael Shermer.

  19. Post #179
    Gold Member
    thisguy123's Avatar
    August 2008
    6,804 Posts
    If you're going to go after inanimate objects that are related to accidental death, guns are very, very far down on the list. After you factor in ownership rates, swimming pools are more dangerous than firearms.
    These deaths were not accidental, there was clearly a person with intent to kill and the means to do so.

    Arguably he would have done it with any weapon he could have laid his hands on but you're just clutching at straws trying to justify your hobby in a place where elements of it have caused harm by intention.

    My point is, this isn't a gun discussion thread, guns are related but the point is, thanks to a stroke of luck people we're spared and a madman dealt less damage than he could of.

  20. Post #180
    Gold Member
    zugu's Avatar
    May 2009
    1,086 Posts
    Buying an assault rifle and 6000 rounds of ammo is so illegal in my country that military police would probably raid my home and I'd be in jail for, like, 10 years.

    Of course, in MURICA one can buy all that shit online and nobody don't ask no questions.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 Romania Show Events Dumb Dumb x 2Agree Agree x 2 (list)

  21. Post #181
    Resplendent Reenactor
    Zillamaster55's Avatar
    June 2010
    18,146 Posts
    Buying an assault rifle and 6000 rounds of ammo is so illegal in my country that military police would probably raid my home and I'd be in jail for, like, 10 years.

    Of course, in MURICA one can buy all that shit online and nobody don't ask no questions.
    Because not everyone who buys a gun is a murderer!
    WOW, REALLY? I'VE NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT BEFORE!

  22. Post #182
    stupidass's Avatar
    November 2010
    327 Posts
    Because we haven't had any trouble at all with armed civilians or anything. What happens when an educated armed population decides it has had enough? What happens when their viewpoint isn't an extremist one, but rather a valid cause?

    Add to that the fact that military forces do indeed tend to defect when ordered to kill their own, the simple fact that the government doesn't ultimately work without the consent of the governed in our economic situation, and the presence of the national guard, and yes, a revolution within the United States
    Add to it the fact that when you pledge yourself to the Military, you are pledging yourself to the Constitution and not some asshole political extremist.

    Also, another news source specified he was using a Smith & Wesson AR platform. After doing some research, I found a local news source that specified he was using a .22LR upper on his AR-15, which are commonly assembled by Smith & Wesson.

    So I have some doubts he was even using something I would define as an 'assault rifle'. It would explain the 'high-capacity magazine' as well since 5.56x45mm drums are incredibly impractical.

    Buying an assault rifle and 6000 rounds of ammo is so illegal in my country that military police would probably raid my home and I'd be in jail for, like, 10 years.

    Of course, in MURICA one can buy all that shit online and nobody don't ask no questions.
    Uhh, actually in America it's pretty common for people who purchase ammo from gunbroker and whatnot in mass amounts to find themselves questioned by the FBI and Homeland Security. Someone I know bought 7.62x39mm in bulk and a Sheriff arrived at his door to ask him a few questions about the purchase.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Informative Informative x 1 (list)

  23. Post #183
    Gold Member
    trotskygrad's Avatar
    June 2011
    8,505 Posts
    Add to it the fact that when you pledge yourself to the Military, you are pledging yourself to the Constitution and not some asshole political extremist.

    Also, another news source specified he was using a Smith & Wesson AR platform. After doing some research, I found a local news source that specified he was using a .22LR upper on his AR-15, which are commonly assembled by Smith & Wesson.

    So I have some doubts he was even using something I would define as an 'assault rifle'. It would explain the 'high-capacity magazine' as well since 5.56x45mm drums are incredibly impractical.



    Uhh, actually in America it's pretty common for people who purchase ammo from gunbroker and whatnot in mass amounts to find themselves questioned by the FBI and Homeland Security. Someone I know bought 7.62x39mm in bulk and a Sheriff arrived at his door to ask him a few questions about the purchase.
    that's why you buy with cash

  24. Post #184
    Gold Member
    zugu's Avatar
    May 2009
    1,086 Posts
    Uhh, actually in America it's pretty common for people who purchase ammo from gunbroker and whatnot in mass amounts to find themselves questioned by the FBI and Homeland Security. Someone I know bought 7.62x39mm in bulk and a Sheriff arrived at his door to ask him a few questions about the purchase.
    WELL, THEY'RE CLEARLY NOT DOING A GOOD JOB.

  25. Post #185
    I do it all
    fruxodaily's Avatar
    November 2010
    13,469 Posts
    I'm sorry but I live in Australia and our gun laws are unreasonable
    do you have any idea how difficult it is to get a licence, let alone how much money you have to spend to legally be able to safely store ammunition and firearms

    You will be required to purchase some big ass safe and I think you're supposed to keep your guns disassembled or something. I'd like to own a handgun and a bolt action one day, but with all the fuck around in my country that's never going to happen. I agree with the first part of your post though
    Wait you gotta have a pistol dissembled, so someone comes lurking into your house and you gotta quickly assemble it..


    You know wouldn't it better to have the gun without a cartridge in it and lock it where it is inaccessible to children?

  26. Post #186
    WhatAmI's Avatar
    June 2012
    1,563 Posts
    I dunno I don't make the rules bro