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Post #1
I recently came from a thread, where, after the first two posts (one of which was mine) the thread rapidly disintegrated into a massive circle jerk / hate fest. http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1203970
So here is the question that I want to put up for debate. Should religious circlejerks, on either side of the spectrum be allowed here on facepunch if the thread has no more than a passing relevance to religion in the first place?
Edit:
I was recently informed by choco cookie that I should put my opinion into the OP.
I personally think that religion should be kept out of threads as much as possible, unless the thread directly pertains to religion. However, once religion gets mentioned, the people who come after the Original Religion Poster should take it upon themselves to decide whether or not their posts fit in with what they perceive the direction of the thread to be.
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This brings up the question of banning for stirring the pot in general, Over all that could end up okay or very poorly.
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Stirring the pot/causing a shitstorm has been considered ban worthy for quite a while, and people have been banned for it time and time again. However, I don't know how much that would apply to something like ruining the thread in the first post (excluding OP), I'm pretty sure it would be considered threadshitting.
On the other hand, it shouldn't boil down to just religion, it should include all variety of debatable topics that would do nothing but damage the thread.
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Although theres alot of people needlessly causing irreligious shitstorms. It wouldn't be far to the others.
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Hey it's me, am I famous now?
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I'm highly against religion, but I do know how circlejerk suck.
The staff could actually ban people for turning a topic Into a hatefest, whoever started It.
Religious or atheist.
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For the most part if it's going to start a shitstorm the mods will deal with it before that happens.
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I would say that if a discussion doesn't finish within say 10 posts it needs to be moved to here. I once suggested an argument thread in GD for this kind of thing to a mod but all they did was mock it as a stupid idea.
I was going to call it the popcorn thread so the rest of us can sit back and eat some popcorn while being entertained
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There's no possible way for a religious debate to end well so they shouldn't be allowed to start in the first place. With something scientific/political the debate can go each way and come to a solid conclusion. Religious debates will always end with theists always believing in their x religion while atheists always not believing. No ones religion is going to magically be changed by arguing with someone of an opposing or nonreligion on an internet forum.
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I always approach such discussions with this viewpoint and get abuse thrown at me from atheists, theists and everyone else who has beliefs of any kind (that most likely includes you).
I think it's the one way to really nail authentic 'truth' though - stepping back and taking a good long look for yourself - and that's why I mention it whenever truth is the topic of discussion - however people are too scared to put their 'self' on the line for fear of losing everything they know.
That being said, until enough people realise the above for themselves, regardless of however long it takes to do so - there's no hope for any sort of conflict/debate/argument/disagreement to be resolved and there never will be.
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Because equating science to religion makes you look like a box loving man
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Remove the meanings and all that remains is someone's writing on a page in both cases.
Both came into our awareness after the void of absolute nothingness that we inhabited before we were born, and prior to the void of absolute nothingness we return to when we die.
With that in mind, does it matter which is more 'valid' or 'correct'? Do the words still need to even mean anything? Will it matter as you're lying on your deathbed 60-90 years from now? Three seconds from death? No, I doubt it will.
Are you going to spend your life desperately clinging to beliefs instilled in you when you were younger, whatever that may be, arguing with those who's opinion differs to yours simply because they were told something different when they were younger?
I'm sure the amount of belief that accumulates from years of living in a society that thrives on belief will eventually strike you as being a bit funny and cause you to look deeper.
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I really think it depends on what the circumstances is, if people just randomly say "religion is stupid" or try to be religious but know perfectly well they're trolling then yes - bannable
But most threads start out to be religion related, it just takes one cunt to ruin it.
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Oh great, a Nihilist, no point arguing with that batshittery
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Ironic how OP started the shitstorm in the thread he linked.
OT, no, I don't think there should be a rule against mentioning religion. It's simply a more polarizing issue than most, and I can deal with that.
Also SCopE5000, you can always point to a bigger and more important problem but that's actually not a valid argument against anything, because the importance and relevance of any topic of discussion is relative to the people discussing it. In other words, nobody cares how unimportant you think this is.
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Deleting the post or banning the user will be far too much for the moderators to handle when the creationist and evolutionist debate is brought up in every debate.
I believe we need more options on the report to moderator list but I can't think of what they would be, I remember numerous occasions where I try to report someone and I feel that none of them cover what I'm trying to report for.
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I've never even tried to report anyone, why would you report a post?
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Except the shit that happened in that thread happens all the time and I have never seen anyone banned for it and regardless, the thread still descends into a shitstorm regardless of if the person who started it gets banned.
Edited:
Both are usually only brought up as troll arguments. I have only ever seen an evolutionist debate be brought up legitimately once or twice in fours years here. Every single time a creationist debate is presented, it's a troll.
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The mods really don't care what you select. They still have to check the post and decide if it's ban-worthy.
If it's somebody being a dick: flaming/trolling
If they're promoting warez: warez
Anything else you think should be reported: spam
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You do realize you're calling out hypocrisy where little to none exists, right? Most atheists don't care to think about this stuff at all, like you. Remember that the purest definition of atheism is not active disbelief in gods, but a lack of belief entirely. That is why it is said we are all born atheists. Anyway, only the more militant atheists (despite what the internet teaches you, people like me are not common) actually "believe" much of anything, and more often than not, they believe it in a philosophical/scientific sense; it's not faith, it's arguments, hypothesis, debate. You believe something to the extent that it can be proven, nothing more or less than that.
Comparing that type of belief to blind religious faith is disingenous, but I have no reason to think you're doing it maliciously. I just don't think you understand atheism at all.
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Seriously, a shit storm isn't worth it because someone mentioned religion.
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[I'll pretend this is an agree rating]
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Sorry, but that isn't nihilism at all. It's just stupidity.
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Scope seems pretty determined to bring his "hurrrrr knowledge is evil everything is belief we live in the matrix I just came from philosophy class and now I'm smarter than all of you hurrrr" shit into every thread he reads, I think this is the fourth so far.
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Actually, he seems rather philosophically naive. But, getting back to the topic, even if I'm against most mockeries of religion, I don't think the prohibition of mentioning religion in a thread is a solution to that problem. People who actually do that can be banned for other reasons (ie. deviating the thread's original post, maybe?)
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Despite the fact I find the atheism circle jerk in this forum pretty tiresome at times I'm going to say that outright banning it from being discussed would not be a wise move, as it would effectively be another step in attempting to control what is and isn't said of this forum. Of course there's a number of things you're not allowed to discuss on Facepunch (such as Warez) but those are generally for a good, and often legal, reason; there is nothing illegal about starting a debate on religion, it just so happens that a lot of people have very loud, very dumb opinions regarding it.
In other words, this could easily lead to a slippery-slope situation where more and more topics that people feel strongly about wind up being banned from discussion and as a result I think the quality of the forum as a whole would suffer.
What would probably be a better idea would be to reintroduce the smartness system, or just encourage people to add the worst offenders to their ignore list.
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A great man once said; If you are a dick, People shall mess with your title
January 2011
3,595 Posts
Could just ban Znk, that would instantly cut down on them.
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I believe this is one of the reasons why puns were a bannable offence in the SH section of the forum for a little while.
Mentioning it isn't bad in my opinion, cracking jokes about it is fine, this community as a whole loves puns afterall. It should be bannable when it's crystal clear that the intent of the poster was to start a shitstorm or to make an ineducated hateful post.
If it's a joke people should just learn to behave. I don't flip my shit everytime someone tells a joke about Italy or italians, nor I try to argue about the validity of their statements. A joke is a joke.
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It does seem like in a lot of threads mentioning religion,atheism,etc. does cause a lot of shenanigans.
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It's a touchy topic, and will be for a very long time. Facepunch is predominantly atheist, but there are occasions where conflicts arise. Worse off, you will never stop trolls. Making a rule barring religious discussion in threads will just deter some of the better conversations we have, we're better off as is. If people bring the conversation to a circlejerk, then so be it. We are ultimately a community, and what the community does is what the community is. It's not like the entire forum is a constant shit thread about religion.
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It's because there are a few Facepunchers who believe that their beliefs are universally correct and that everyone should follow their lead. And those Facepunchers like to ruin it for everyone by shit posting a religion thread that isn't similar to their beliefs.
