1. Post #4921
    I'LL SUCK DICK FOR SELF-MADES
    Constructor's Avatar
    July 2011
    10,100 Posts
    How about a sapper that cannot be broken?

    It sounds very broken, but if you make it not deal damage but instead just stun the building for a few seconds and have a recharge timer, it might work.
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  2. Post #4922
    Paltry Member
    J-RcZ's Avatar
    February 2012
    5,439 Posts
    How about a sapper that cannot be broken?

    It sounds very broken..
    No, it doesn't.
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  3. Post #4923
    Keep calm and JAG
    Damoman's Avatar
    April 2009
    2,322 Posts


    As a(ingame)texan, I am appalled by all this talk. You are taking away my freedom of choice! When my building gets sapped I have the freedom to choose how to handle the situation.

    By making a sentry inoperable for an extended period of time despite any interaction on the part of the engineer you are making the constitution cry.
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  4. Post #4924
    I am a very friendly person!
    AbeX300's Avatar
    January 2012
    7,470 Posts
    How about a sapper that cannot be broken?

    It sounds very broken, but if you make it not deal damage but instead just stun the building for a few seconds and have a recharge timer, it might work.
    Honestly, the idea of having a Sapper that can't be destroyed by Wrenches (or Pyro weapons, which should never have happened) makes it entirely a crutch Sapper, if not an overpowered one.

    You can already take on an Engineer nest by yourself through a few methods:

    1) Sap the buildings and fight off the Engineer (Revolver or Knife).

    This is a simple method to pull off, but the fact that you have a Revolver that is generally weaker (even with the Enforcer) than the Shotgun and Wrench (which might have gotten a high crit chance from having the Sentry deal quite a considerable amount of damage in the past 20 seconds), possibly sided with a Pistol as a back-up.

    What outright can beat an Engineer, though, is the Knife, obviously because of the backstab, but that depends on how smart the Engineer is. If he decides to remove the sappers first, you're in the clear, but if not, you may either have to pull off a difficult backstab, or simply shoot/stab him to death.

    And then there's an unlikely scenario, when the Engineer is not even there. Well, the question is, why would he ever do that? Regardless of the reason, you're free to even taunt kill a building (after simply starting to sap the Sentry, of course).

    2) Backstab the Engineer and immediately sap the buildings.

    This is easier said than done, at least by doing it correctly. If you simply want to go kamikaze and let any nearby teammates finish the job, that's fine, but what if there are teammates who can't handle the buildings by themselves?

    This requires a bit of fast reflexes, and hoping that the Engineer doesn't even randomly turn around so that you only poke him, but if you manage to do it, it's actually a faster way of taking down an Engineer nest.

    This is obviously done much easier with Your Eternal Reward (assuming you have a disguise beforehand).

    (This is all assuming that there are no other enemies around, and especially a Pyro, in which that case, you're having a death wish by going into said nest.)

    So even though it's not too easy to take down an Engineer nest with a nearby Engineer, it can be done. It'd just take all of the skill away if you had a Sapper that can't be destroyed, even when it auto-destroys itself after a while.
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  5. Post #4925
    mphayes97's Avatar
    January 2012
    1,513 Posts

    i know that feel, bro
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  6. Post #4926
    hogofwar's Avatar
    May 2008
    4,738 Posts
    Maybe engie's sounds sound weird because he is shouting in a few of them, which i can't remember him doing often in the original soundfiles.
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  7. Post #4927
    Gold Member
    BigJoeyLemons's Avatar
    July 2012
    3,878 Posts
    I thought the wrecnh part was a bit of a stretch, but the point is that you have to kill the Spy to remove it.
    Keep in mind that I came up with that idea at 2 in the morning. I agree that it looks OP...
    I just put all of my ideas onto the same Post-It note...
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  8. Post #4928
    Shinx's Avatar
    May 2007
    302 Posts
    I think the last thing TF2 needs right now are more crutch weapons. Sapper that can't be destroyed by wrenches would be in every spies loadout along side the enforcer and spycicle.
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  9. Post #4929
    Gold Member
    BigJoeyLemons's Avatar
    July 2012
    3,878 Posts
    I think the last thing TF2 needs right now are more crutch weapons. Sapper that can't be destroyed by wrenches would be in every spies loadout along side the enforcer and spycicle.
    That, and the Red Tape Recorder still feels a little overpowered, we don't need more Sappers in the mix.
    I just thought of the idea while making a Facebook comment equating all of the TF classes to computer security factors
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  10. Post #4930
    Dreams of chronic and sustained critglows.
    ned_ballad's Avatar
    December 2010
    16,961 Posts
    we always need more sappers
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  11. Post #4931
    Raffle Rigger
    Psychopath12's Avatar
    November 2010
    16,584 Posts
    Sappers rigged with dynamite can be balanced. Just don't attach any stupidly-broken mechanics to it like being unable to remove it.
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  12. Post #4932
    Gold Member
    BigJoeyLemons's Avatar
    July 2012
    3,878 Posts
    Sappers rigged with dynamite can be balanced. Just don't attach any stupidly-broken mechanics to it like being unable to remove it.
    2 AM-me thought: "Oh a sapper that can only be removed by killing the Spy is a challenging and clever game mechanic, I SAY.
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  13. Post #4933
    Erfly's Avatar
    April 2011
    5,417 Posts
    we always need more sappers
    We need a new PDA before a new Sapper, and since the slot was added, we can guess that one is in the works at the moment.
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  14. Post #4934
    I am a very friendly person!
    AbeX300's Avatar
    January 2012
    7,470 Posts
    Sappers rigged with dynamite can be balanced. Just don't attach any stupidly-broken mechanics to it like being unable to remove it.
    At the same time, something tells me it will be pretty damn hard to balance a "Sapper" that only detonates after a certain time, and the hardest part has to be the time.
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  15. Post #4935
    Raffle Rigger
    Psychopath12's Avatar
    November 2010
    16,584 Posts
    At the same time, something tells me it will be pretty damn hard to balance a "Sapper" that only detonates after a certain time, and the hardest part has to be the time.
    Not necessarily.

    With times identical to the stock sapper, if it were to tick violently, it would alert every nearby enemy to his presence. It places the Spy at a larger risk to reap a higher reward of doing damage to nearby players. With explosives, it forces the Spy to disengage the Engineer before the building is destroyed or he risks blowing himself up in the chaos.

    Optimally, such a sapper would be best used for Stab + sap techniques and then abandoning the area because it becomes extremely dangerous when every enemy knows that you're there. In doing so, you can gank and Engineer and sap all of his gear, forcing everyone who is holed up in that nest (yourself included) to clear out or risk taking explosive damage.
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  16. Post #4936
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    February 2007
    13,269 Posts
    At the same time, something tells me it will be pretty damn hard to balance a "Sapper" that only detonates after a certain time, and the hardest part has to be the time.
    How about this for an explosive sapper:

    + Instantly destroys sentry after a set time (the normal time it takes for a sapper to destroy a sentry)
    + Gives no hud indication to the Engineer that the sentry is being sapped (still leaves a slightly less noisy ticking sapper on the sentry)
    - Deals no damage at all until the timer is activated

    This will make it a sneaker sapper, that is more useful for Engineers that are distracted with other things and that is generally harder to detect.
    However if removed, it will unlike the normal sapper not have caused any damage what so ever.
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  17. Post #4937
    Evil Boy Genius
    Rageguy's Avatar
    May 2011
    3,909 Posts
    we always need more sappers
    yeah

    ones that GIVE points
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  18. Post #4938
    I am a very friendly person!
    AbeX300's Avatar
    January 2012
    7,470 Posts
    yeah

    ones that GIVE points
    And ones that aren't so broken when first released.
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  19. Post #4939
    Gold Member
    BigJoeyLemons's Avatar
    July 2012
    3,878 Posts
    Not necessarily.

    With times identical to the stock sapper, if it were to tick violently, it would alert every nearby enemy to his presence. It places the Spy at a larger risk to reap a higher reward of doing damage to nearby players. With explosives, it forces the Spy to disengage the Engineer before the building is destroyed or he risks blowing himself up in the chaos.

    Optimally, such a sapper would be best used for Stab + sap techniques and then abandoning the area because it becomes extremely dangerous when every enemy knows that you're there. In doing so, you can gank and Engineer and sap all of his gear, forcing everyone who is holed up in that nest (yourself included) to clear out or risk taking explosive damage.
    Thank you for channeling my 2 AM self and making sense out of what I was trying to say.
    And perhaps the sapper won't disable the sentry either, so it's almost like a Demoman-Sapper
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  20. Post #4940
    Dreams of chronic and sustained critglows.
    ned_ballad's Avatar
    December 2010
    16,961 Posts
    We need a new PDA before a new Sapper, and since the slot was added, we can guess that one is in the works at the moment.
    THIS: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfile...66&searchtext=
    Plus an elegant solution to making a hat a weapon, as far as crafting and drop goes.

    would be great. The biggest hurdle of this switch is probably not even the custom animations, but rather making a misc suddenly super common and treated as a weapon after so long on the market.
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  21. Post #4941
    Gold Member
    BigJoeyLemons's Avatar
    July 2012
    3,878 Posts
    THIS: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfile...66&searchtext=
    Plus an elegant solution to making a hat a weapon, as far as crafting and drop goes.

    would be great. The biggest hurdle of this switch is probably not even the custom animations, but rather making a misc suddenly super common and treated as a weapon after so long on the market.
    They could collaborate with the makers of Fallout to create a new set of buildings with new stats to go along with it and match the Fallout theme.
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  22. Post #4942
    I'LL SUCK DICK FOR SELF-MADES
    Constructor's Avatar
    July 2011
    10,100 Posts
    snip
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  23. Post #4943
    Dreams of chronic and sustained critglows.
    ned_ballad's Avatar
    December 2010
    16,961 Posts
    They could collaborate with the makers of Fallout to create a new set of buildings with new stats to go along with it and match the Fallout theme.
    the odds of that happening is like non-existant
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  24. Post #4944
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    February 2007
    13,269 Posts
    The biggest hurdle of this switch is probably not even the custom animations, but rather making a misc suddenly super common and treated as a weapon after so long on the market.
    Doesn't neccesarily have to become super common, just don't give it any unique stats and just let it be a cool reskin. So it will be like the Big Kill and Lugermorph.
    People will like it for the same reason that they like Big Kill despite just being a reskin, because it's a promo, it's cool, and they may be fans of the series.
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  25. Post #4945
    Dreams of chronic and sustained critglows.
    ned_ballad's Avatar
    December 2010
    16,961 Posts
    I don't want Valve getting any ideas about making reskins drop and craft like hats.
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  26. Post #4946
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    February 2007
    13,269 Posts
    I don't want Valve getting any ideas about making reskins drop and craft like hats.
    Why, they already do it with all new cosmetic promos (as far as I can tell). It seems unlikely that they'll make any new promos and reskins behave the same way as the Big Kill and Lugermorph, or Max's head. They probably want to avoid making new promos that are very hard to obtain for the real fans who missed out on them.
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  27. Post #4947
    Gold Member
    BigJoeyLemons's Avatar
    July 2012
    3,878 Posts
    the odds of that happening is like non-existant
    A man can dream, can't he?
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  28. Post #4948
    Armisael's Avatar
    May 2012
    788 Posts
    If they want to make it a weapon reskin, they should just make unique ones vintage, leave genuines alone, and have all new ones be unique. Problem solved.
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  29. Post #4949
    I am a very friendly person!
    AbeX300's Avatar
    January 2012
    7,470 Posts
    If they want to make it a weapon reskin, they should just make unique ones vintage, leave genuines alone, and have all new ones be unique. Problem solved.
    I wouldn't mind this...

    (I seriously want to get that Big Kill.)
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  30. Post #4950
    jimbobjoe1234's Avatar
    August 2012
    1,427 Posts
    This probably doesn't have much to do with any kind of new update or sapper, but I heard a rumor that there is going to be a Night of the Living Update 2.
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  31. Post #4951
    Gold Member
    butters757's Avatar
    December 2008
    3,595 Posts
    This probably doesn't have much to do with any kind of new update or sapper, but I heard a rumor that there is going to be a Night of the Living Update 2.
    Don't know anything about that...
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  32. Post #4952
    Gold Member
    Demon!'s Avatar
    November 2011
    4,988 Posts
    This probably doesn't have much to do with any kind of new update or sapper, but I heard a rumor that there is going to be a Night of the Living Update 2.
    Man, you must have some crazy good inside sources.
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  33. Post #4953
    Dreams of chronic and sustained critglows.
    ned_ballad's Avatar
    December 2010
    16,961 Posts
    If they want to make it a weapon reskin, they should just make unique ones vintage, leave genuines alone, and have all new ones be unique. Problem solved.
    Yea

    I'd prefer the item as a PDA to be honest. Especially if the implemented custom animations and added a strange variant.

    Edited:

    OMG BWAHAHAHA the spectator client for i46 just crashed with the hl2.exe not responding error at a key point in the match
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  34. Post #4954
    JohnnyGoGo's Avatar
    April 2012
    528 Posts
    You know what would be really handy? A list of weapons that haven't been used in crafting recipes yet. Really annoyed at the recent recipes, I try to keep two of everything, but no one without alts had 3 spy-cicles, what are they trying to encourage?
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  35. Post #4955

    July 2012
    719 Posts
    You know what would be really handy? A list of weapons that haven't been used in crafting recipes yet. Really annoyed at the recent recipes, I try to keep two of everything, but no one without alts had 3 spy-cicles, what are they trying to encourage?
    Clearly, more Mad Milks must be obtained.
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  36. Post #4956
    Damian0358's Avatar
    January 2012
    3,708 Posts
    What happened to the balacing thread we had?
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  37. Post #4957
    I am a very friendly person!
    AbeX300's Avatar
    January 2012
    7,470 Posts
    What happened to the balacing thread we had?
    Didn't you ask this before?

    I think that thread is dead, now...
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  38. Post #4958
    Gold Member
    BlindSniper17's Avatar
    June 2012
    4,308 Posts
    Probably had nothing to do with the three alternate threads people made.
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  39. Post #4959
    Gold Member
    BigJoeyLemons's Avatar
    July 2012
    3,878 Posts
    I hope that they do some simplifying of the crafting system.
    No one has the time to click all of those metal buttons. The recipes for metal should all be straightforward, like if you're crafting a refined there's a button that adds 3 reclaimed, and if you don't have 3 reclaimed then it doesn't work.
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  40. Post #4960
    Erfly's Avatar
    April 2011
    5,417 Posts
    I hope that they do some simplifying of the crafting system.
    No one has the time to click all of those metal buttons. The recipes for metal should all be straightforward, like if you're crafting a refined there's a button that adds 3 reclaimed, and if you don't have 3 reclaimed then it doesn't work.
    The problem with this, is that it may choose items you don't want, for example, you want to make a scrap. It chooses a vintage weapon and a genuine weapon.
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