1. Post #5041
    Yukoviz's Avatar
    July 2011
    271 Posts
    Does a full demoknight set have no downside because it's not listed? The Amputator is a reverse taunt kill, it's gimmicky and not nearly as effective as a medic building uber. That's the downside.
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  2. Post #5042
    An optional trick isn't a downside.

    If you can equip the Amputator and never taunt, It'd be exactly like the Bonesaw. Exactly! If you deciced to neve use it's feature move, it would not make a difference whatsoever. The amputator needs a downside to compliment it's upside; -20% Weapom Switch Sped, or something to that effect.
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  3. Post #5043
    Gold Member
    Razi The Red's Avatar
    June 2010
    792 Posts
    I feel like those melees could kinda use a
    10% melee vulnerability or something to that effect

    like that way there's still a downside
    but one that doesn't really change it up too much
    Maybe -15% speed so the Medic's speed is equivalent to the Demoman, but slower than Pyro, Engy,Sniper, and Spy?
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  4. Post #5044
    I am a very friendly person!
    AbeX300's Avatar
    January 2012
    7,537 Posts
    An optional trick isn't a downside.

    If you can equip the Amputator and never taunt, It'd be exactly like the Bonesaw. Exactly! If you deciced to neve use it's feature move, it would not make a difference whatsoever. The amputator needs a downside to compliment it's upside; -20% Weapom Switch Sped, or something to that effect.
    Or, like I've suggested, a damage penalty, or turn critical damage into mini-crit.

    I mean it's not like you use the Bonesaw to fight, right?
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  5. Post #5045
    Dreams of chronic and sustained critglows.
    ned_ballad's Avatar
    December 2010
    17,012 Posts
    Does a full demoknight set have no downside because it's not listed?
    all downsides of demo knight are documented. It's listed very plainly as a downside for the targe on the promo page that losing the sticky launcher is a downside. It's not on the weapon itself, but it was noted on the update page for the targe.

    All relevant swords have plainly labeled downsides on top of that. This is a bad example

    Edited:

    An optional trick isn't a downside.

    If you can equip the Amputator and never taunt, It'd be exactly like the Bonesaw. Exactly! If you deciced to neve use it's feature move, it would not make a difference whatsoever. The amputator needs a downside to compliment it's upside; -20% Weapom Switch Sped, or something to that effect.
    I wonder if a 5% loss in speed would be too harsh of a downside. Still slightly faster than most classes, but slower than regular medics
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  6. Post #5046
    krutomisi's Avatar
    May 2012
    192 Posts
    All relevant swords have plainly labeled downsides on top of that.
    especially the golf club
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  7. Post #5047
    Yukoviz's Avatar
    July 2011
    271 Posts
    I'm not saying it's not a straight upgrade, it definitely is, but it's not completely without downsides.Being completely vulnerable and rather ineffective is still a downside. Nerfing it at all would make it a complete crutch.
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  8. Post #5048
    I am a very friendly person!
    AbeX300's Avatar
    January 2012
    7,537 Posts
    especially the golf club
    Now that I think about it, why doesn't it say anything about being able to take heads?

    Alright, granted, but being completely vulnerable and rather ineffective is still a downside. Nerfing it at all would make it a complete crutch.
    How does nerfing it make it a crutch?
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  9. Post #5049
    Dreams of chronic and sustained critglows.
    ned_ballad's Avatar
    December 2010
    17,012 Posts
    Alright, granted, but being completely vulnerable and rather ineffective is still a downside. Nerfing it at all would make it a complete crutch.
    The very nature of any taunt in the game is not a valid weapon downside
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  10. Post #5050
    Yukoviz's Avatar
    July 2011
    271 Posts
    Okay think of it this way: remove the damage reduction on the scorch shot and make it so you have to taunt to fire it. Is that a nerf or buff?
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  11. Post #5051
    krutomisi's Avatar
    May 2012
    192 Posts
    I would say the sharp dresser is a straight downgrade though

    cause it lacks a fence kill


    (but it looks cool so yeah)
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  12. Post #5052
    I am a very friendly person!
    AbeX300's Avatar
    January 2012
    7,537 Posts
    Okay think of it this way: remove the damage reduction on the scorch shot and make it so you have to taunt to fire it. Is that a nerf or buff?
    Both, though the scale tips toward nerf.

    You at least can do the same damage as a Flare Gun, now, but having to do a stationary, lengthy taunt in order to shoot outweighs the damage buff.
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  13. Post #5053
    Dreams of chronic and sustained critglows.
    ned_ballad's Avatar
    December 2010
    17,012 Posts
    Ugh, the fact you can't fire without taunting is not at all even similar to the amputator. The amputator when used as a bone saw reskin does not have any effect on the player at all or even how the weapon is used.
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  14. Post #5054
    Archimedes's Avatar
    April 2012
    5,355 Posts
    Major Amputator Speculation Thread.
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  15. Post #5055
    I am a very friendly person!
    AbeX300's Avatar
    January 2012
    7,537 Posts
    Major Amputator Speculation Thread.
    On the next edition: Major Solemn Vow Speculation Thread
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  16. Post #5056
    Dreams of chronic and sustained critglows.
    ned_ballad's Avatar
    December 2010
    17,012 Posts
    Two threads ago we spent a good 4 pages arguing about the exact same thing, except it was the rainblower and whether it was a reskin or not. A least that weapon has actual listed downsides heh
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  17. Post #5057
    I am a very friendly person!
    AbeX300's Avatar
    January 2012
    7,537 Posts
    Two threads ago we spent a good 4 pages arguing about the exact same thing, except it was the rainblower and whether it was a reskin or not. A least that weapon has actual listed downsides heh
    Actually, the Rainblower's taunt has downsides, considering that it's entirely different from the regular Flamethrower's.

    1) It's lengthier.

    2) It's very visible, and the music is very distinguishable (especially when not in Pyroland).
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  18. Post #5058
    Yukoviz's Avatar
    July 2011
    271 Posts
    Ugh, the fact you can't fire without taunting is not at all even similar to the amputator. The amputator when used as a bone saw reskin does not have any effect on the player at all or even how the weapon is used.
    I didn't disagree on the idea that it's a straight upgrade. I understand that there is no downside to carrying it around. My point is that the taunt has its downsides. You are putting yourself at risk and often, building up uber is the better choice. It's extremely situational and not OP in the slightest, nerfing it would make it a complete crutch. A gimmicky taunt is barely an upside.
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  19. Post #5059
    lilguy's Avatar
    March 2011
    1,747 Posts
    The thing about the Amputator is that the taunt is indeed useful.

    Have you ever taunted behind a wall to save multiple patients from dying due to a Pyro ambush? Multiple patients that you can't heal with a single Medigun.

    The Amputator taunt does have a more favorable use than the Bonesaw.
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  20. Post #5060
    I am a very friendly person!
    AbeX300's Avatar
    January 2012
    7,537 Posts
    The thing about the Amputator is that the taunt is indeed useful.

    Have you ever taunted behind a wall to save multiple patients from dying due to a Pyro ambush? Multiple patients that you can't heal with a single Medigun.

    The Amputator taunt does have a more favorable use than the Bonesaw.
    Wait, it can heal through walls?

    God damn, less reasons to use the Bonesaw. Though, not more reasons to use the Amputator, that's actually Valve's fault for even allowing such a glitch to exist...

    At least, I hope that's a glitch.

    Then again, it's Valve's fault for not even including a downside to the Amputator in the first place.
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  21. Post #5061
    Gold Member
    Razi The Red's Avatar
    June 2010
    792 Posts
    My point is that the taunt has its downsides
    EVERY taunt with an effect has the same downside which is the inability to move.

    Hell, every taunt in general has that downside and yet they exist FOR FUN.
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  22. Post #5062
    lilguy's Avatar
    March 2011
    1,747 Posts
    Wait, it can heal through walls?

    God damn, less reasons to use the Bonesaw. Though, not more reasons to use the Amputator, that's actually Valve's fault for even allowing such a glitch to exist...

    At least, I hope that's a glitch.

    Then again, it's Valve's fault for not even including a downside to the Amputator in the first place.
    Well, not through walls, but at least behind some sort of cover, like the grated bars to water access on cp_freight or around the corner of the sink rooms on ctf_2fort.

    The point being is that if you ever decide to taunt, there would be no reason at all for the Bonesaw, whilst for the Amputator, good comes out of it.
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  23. Post #5063
    I am a very friendly person!
    AbeX300's Avatar
    January 2012
    7,537 Posts
    Hell, every taunt in general has that downside and yet they exist FOR FUN.
    I'd have to slightly disagree, there.

    Taunt kills usually take longer to finish than the normal taunts, which leaves you more vulnerable than you normally would. There are a few exceptions like the Huntsman, but even then, compared to the entire mechanic being changed from a Sniper Rifle to a Bow, that's like a tiny upside to the weapon.

    But for the Amputator, the only thing that's changed is that the taunt actually heals, and otherwise is like the Bonesaw taunt.
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  24. Post #5064
    Yukoviz's Avatar
    July 2011
    271 Posts
    It's a straight upgrade, I think we can all agree on that. But the fact is that the upside is gimmicky and definitely doesn't deserve nerfs as harsh as you guys are suggesting.
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  25. Post #5065
    TectoImprov's Avatar
    July 2012
    5,065 Posts
    Guys, you can't convince people who have made up their minds.
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  26. Post #5066
    I am a very friendly person!
    AbeX300's Avatar
    January 2012
    7,537 Posts
    It's a straight upgrade, I think we can all agree on that. But the fact is that the upside is gimmicky and definitely doesn't deserve nerfs as harsh as you guys are suggesting.
    I thought my nerfs on a slight damage nerf or crits being mini-crits (on a weapon you almost never fight with) weren't that harsh. :c
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  27. Post #5067
    Lmao Pics Authority Jesus
    Dennab
    February 2012
    8,769 Posts
    guys, just make it so the Amputator can't do crits, it's fucking balanced


    /thread
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  28. Post #5068
    Yukoviz's Avatar
    July 2011
    271 Posts
    If it were to be nerfed, some random +/- would either be too much/too little. Messing with the core idea behind it and somehow making it more risk-reward (GRU-style minicrits while you have it out?) is what I'd do.
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  29. Post #5069
    I am a very friendly person!
    AbeX300's Avatar
    January 2012
    7,537 Posts
    guys, just make it so the Amputator can't do crits, it's fucking balanced


    /thread
    "Well...that's that."

    So when will Valve ever add Community Schema v2 and the rest of Community Schema v1?
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  30. Post #5070
    Gold Member
    BigJoeyLemons's Avatar
    July 2012
    3,950 Posts
    I rarely see people healing anyone with the Amputator anyway, everyone's using the Ubersaw or the Vita-saw.
    Not enough people actually use the taunt for it to matter in my opinion.
    Has anyone ever felt like the Amputator's healing taunt severely crippled your chances of winning?
    If yes: Why not kill the medic?
    If no: Well, the medic prevented people from dying.
    That's the best I can explain my opinion.
    The point is that it adds a new feature with its own upside and downside.
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  31. Post #5071
    Gold Member
    noodleboy347's Avatar
    August 2008
    1,087 Posts
    I rarely see people healing anyone with the Amputator anyway, everyone's using the Ubersaw or the Vita-saw.
    Not enough people actually use the taunt for it to matter in my opinion.
    Has anyone ever felt like the Amputator's healing taunt severely crippled your chances of winning?
    If yes: Why not kill the medic?
    If no: Well, the medic prevented people from dying.
    That's the best I can explain my opinion.
    The point is that it adds a new feature with its own upside and downside.
    The only reason I would ever use it is for the Medieval set bonus. Otherwise I much prefer the Vita-Saw or Ubersaw.
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  32. Post #5072
    Lmao Pics Authority Jesus
    Dennab
    February 2012
    8,769 Posts
    vita-saw best saw
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  33. Post #5073
    Captain Westcliff: Thinks Wales is an Island
    NeoDement's Avatar
    January 2006
    18,301 Posts
    I love the Amputator and would be very upset if it got nerfed

    That said, logic dictates it should be nerfed
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  34. Post #5074
    I am a very friendly person!
    AbeX300's Avatar
    January 2012
    7,537 Posts
    vita-saw best saw
    Now that I think about it...

    If I were to come up with new stats for the Amputator, it should be:

    Code:
    [+] Crit damage taken is normal damage
    [-] -25 max health on wearer
    Because how many times have you died from a critical hit as a Medic? Probably a lot, unless Robin likes you, very much...

    I love the Amputator and would be very upset if it got nerfed

    That said, logic dictates it should be nerfed
    I love and hate the Amputator, simply because I can just easily take advantage of being more useful than a Bonesaw, but at the same time, so can anyone else. Oh, and it makes the Bonesaw 100% useless.
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  35. Post #5075
    Gold Member
    noodleboy347's Avatar
    August 2008
    1,087 Posts
    Now that I think about it...

    If I were to come up with new stats for the Amputator, it should be:

    Code:
    [+] Crit damage taken is normal damage
    [-] -25 max health on wearer
    Because how many times have you died from a critical hit as a Medic? Probably a lot, unless Robin likes you, very much...



    I love and hate the Amputator, simply because I can just easily take advantage of being more useful than a Bonesaw, but at the same time, so can anyone else.
    I would never use that, 125hp Medic doesn't sound appealing at all
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  36. Post #5076
    I am a very friendly person!
    AbeX300's Avatar
    January 2012
    7,537 Posts
    I would never use that, 125hp Medic doesn't sound appealing at all
    Then I suppose having the same downside as the Vita-Saw (-10 max health) would be appropriate enough?
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  37. Post #5077
    Gold Member
    noodleboy347's Avatar
    August 2008
    1,087 Posts
    Then I suppose having the same downside as the Vita-Saw (-10 max health) would be appropriate enough?
    Better, but I'd probably use something more interesting considering that's already used.
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  38. Post #5078
    Lmao Pics Authority Jesus
    Dennab
    February 2012
    8,769 Posts
    I found out ojcoolj was banned today and no one told me

    today is pretty good
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  39. Post #5079
    Gold Member
    =DarkStar='s Avatar
    August 2010
    9,019 Posts
    Fighting over taunts with Ned? Don't even bother.

    But yeah, the amputador need a little downside, just a very tiny downside.
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  40. Post #5080
    I am a very friendly person!
    AbeX300's Avatar
    January 2012
    7,537 Posts
    Better, but I'd probably use something more interesting considering that's already used.
    Point taken.

    I found out ojcoolj was banned today and no one told me

    today is pretty good
    I do believe that should go into the GC, but yes, it is pretty good that happened. He even asked to be banned.
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